Freeman Megamerge

MagicSean

Offy wrote: »

One only has to look at the kind of people that use it in court to know theres no merit in it but why dont the MODS just move this post to CT? Does it have any real connection to the law?

It doesn't even have a connection to reality

Ms Minnie Mouse

Stupid question going back several posts (sorry, find this absolutely fascinating), can someone please explain to me how Bank of Ireland are a British bank?

Also, why these 'freemen' are so hung up on mis-translating Latin, the law (be it common, Brehon or whatever else they decide to bastardise) and getting their facts straight? An example - on a number of occasions I've seen comments relating to a contract being unable to exist without a signature - well, back when the Brehon Law was 'the thing' - the majority of contracts - which were in their own right enforceable - were verbal. So where do these ill thought-out arguments come from? I have yet to see a well thought out argument from a member of this 'movement' giving citations, facts and most of all, using correct grammar, punctuation and spelling!

This could be, in part, why people are so quick to shoot it down. So there you go - a challenge.

Di0genes

Offy wrote: »

One only has to look at the kind of people that use it in court to know theres no merit in it but why dont the MODS just move this post to CT? Does it have any real connection to the law?

There is a thread in CT. However sane people's tolerance to Freeman can only go so far before one must say "shut up you're stupid and annoying".

The idea that traffic offences or mortgages are annoying things than can be avoided with the correct terminology.

Incidentally has anyone heard of the "turning of sovereign seal" apparently if this self appointed moron with delusions of grandeur didn't engage in this self styled ritual the entire state would fall apart.

Idiocy.

http://wethepeopleireland.ning.com/forum/topics/the-harp-the-sovereign-seal

Offy

Di0genes wrote: »

There is a thread in CT. However sane people's tolerance to Freeman can only go so far before one must say "shut up you're stupid and annoying".

The idea that traffic offences or mortgages are annoying things than can be avoided with the correct terminology.

Incidentally has anyone heard of the "turning of sovereign seal" apparently if this self appointed moron with delusions of grandeur didn't engage in this self styled ritual the entire state would fall apart.

Idiocy.

http://wethepeopleireland.ning.com/forum/topics/the-harp-the-sovereign-seal

I tried to read it but tbh it was like reading Homer's 'The Odyssey', it belongs in a different age. I've seen one case of a young man in court for growing cannabis, this chap wasnt even sure of his own name. See here. Surly this is grounds to have the defendant committed to a mental institution? I mean if someone isnt sure of their own name how can they be sane?

FreudianSlippers

Offy wrote: »

Why are all you legal people getting so worked up about this freeman stuff? Why does it get so many replies?

Pseudo law is dangerous. If people out there believe that there are loopholes they will try to use them. The only reason this thread is open and ongoing is that I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears; people will see this and we all win.

Offy

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Pseudo law is dangerous. If people out there believe that there are loopholes they will try to use them. The only reason this thread is open and ongoing is that I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears; people will see this and we all win.

Lets hope so but also keep in mind not everyone can think for themselves, some people will always grasp at straws especially when in a bad situation.

derry

Reading the last few replies there is some idea that freemen live in some sort of dreamland and not in realty for the Legal system that others claim is in in front of them.
For some people in life that's the only mafia they encounter in their whole life so this discussion about the legal system and freemen has nothing to with their life so they might think serpent helpers and freemen are both nuts

Well the realty is there many systems out there .There is the local thug mafia that often control housing estates which demand cash for some services rendered or the petrol bomb comes through the window even you don´t want these services

Then there is some other guys in customs that say your car that is ion the public ways hasn't got some colored piece of paper on the windscreen that some Mafia called Government.Inc demands you pay annually.

Then there is another group of mafia out there called Co.Council.LTD who put camera around glass bottle collection bins and if some scrap of paper falls of the bottles onto the ground they send demands for over 100 pieces of metal called Euros for those pieces of paper they now rename as litter.

Between The Mafia like RTE demanding a license to look at their colored electronic brain washing electrons and the millions of other incorporated mafias in Ireland the joe soap born into this has two choices accept his servitude to slavery position or decide who the hell are these often self appointed baboons to be demanding these things.

A small amount of research reveals that the legal system is just another corporation that has been imposed on the people by another corporation called Government.Inc and this franchise to collect fines is meant for the other corporations and not the non corporation eg the peoples but people end up there so what went wrong ?

So another bit of research shows that Ancient tribal was laws for the peoples and was a reactive legal system they did not go around looking to invent rules and laws unless there was some serious need to.
The legal system did not pay people so no incentive to find problems

Then along came the British law which was the opposite it was a stick it in your face system.
They employ peoples to go around inventing new laws and demanding tax collections for things like two windows on your mud hut.
Failure to pay this annual tax on your extra window would incur notices and fines and even prison or loss of the mud house

Then some Irish rose up and things nearly were sorted to go back to Irish laws until the British pulled a fast one.
The treaties allowed the Ireland.Inc to become a subsidiary Inc from the commonwealth that BUT still had to agree to keep British Laws

EG Ireland .Inc got about the same independence as a dog gets when the chain lead is extended a few extra feet the dog is still chained up.
Suitable gombeen men were put in to run this British Legal system in Ireland.Inc

The Freemen now see the massive fraud that was done and as good Irish freedom oriented peoples look to see what solutions exist to see how to throw of this Yoke of tyranny that allows the UK crown to continue to rule Eire

In your face evidence of the Gombeen men and women lining up to bow before the bitch in Dublin who was here to get the census on how many serfs were on her farm in Eire.

No expect more people to see the reality where do these guys wearing wigs get this power to take their houses farms children and imprison them often for minor infractions like lack of suitable pieces of colored paper for things like tax which then goes to feed mafias like Offshore and Onshore Bankters

No for these gombeen men employed as servants to the serpents they see that getting easy prey and easy picking could vanish once real systems like Tribal laws were to come back .
Why they risk to even become redundant so they howl the loudest "Freemen cant see realty that they need us to reduce the body parts the serpents will chew off them."
The freemens logic is why tangle with serpents and their helpers if the pits are well signposted and there are big Freemen signs saying this way to ignore the serpents pits .

No Freemen see the realty that the British legal system is not made to be fair or supply justice .
It is made to steal everything it can from everybody it possibly can using costumes for the system to signify who is the top of the piles of mafias they control.
Just look the names and terms used
devils = apprentice serpant helper and spelling for casting spells and Magistrate magic of the state .


The only confusion out there is the many of new freemen might think going into the serpents pits called the courts might solve the problem.

That´s to be expected as the serpents have set up the hall of mirrors with justice this way and get your day in court tell them straight how it should be sign at the entrance to serpents pits.

Any study of the serpents pits shows they can change the goal posts to where they want .
They can change the court to be under local Bye laws or Admiralty rule or cannon law or run all of them at the same time concurrently so that the victims there can even become classed as salvage .then salvage needs storing in a salvage warehouse called a prison. The British legal system has nothing to with supplying justice .

Freemen in Ireland may not be able to know why they know the system isn't fair but they know it isn't
There exist many internet sites out there that encourage wanna be serpent slayers to follow some formula to win in the battle against the serpents
Other freemen sites say the planet is full of serpents in pits and the best methods is to ignore them and here are some formulas for getting out of any pits if you fall into them.
These formulas often have nothing to do with using legal logic so they are strategies for getting out of the pits ASAP with all your body parts intact .
Also Don't fall for the serpents sucker you in with good justice this way ploy that casino is rigged worse than a three card trick act .

There exists other internet freemen sites with other strategies but that's to big a field to go into today

So simply put for serpent helpers saying that freemen are nuts is like Publicans thinking teetotalers are nuts he cant sell them his snake poison alcohol



Derry

derry

Di0genes wrote: »

Incidentally has anyone heard of the "turning of sovereign seal" apparently if this self appointed moron with delusions of grandeur didn't engage in this self styled ritual the entire state would fall apart.

Idiocy.

http://wethepeopleireland.ning.com/forum/topics/the-harp-the-sovereign-seal

Well I cant say I am an expert on that information as its another subject really.
But in a nutshell that site explains how the coup de etate by the British was done to ensure their gombeen men got to keep Eire under the British legal system.
For the British system they figured they could let this this new upstart ireland.Inc have a bit of slack make its own company logo the tri color and sing its own company jangle the anthem .
Once the new subsidiary agreed to keep the British legal system it was effectively still part of BritishEmpire.Inc

The original revolutionaries from 1916 had made the seal of office that had made the first Irish government.

This seal of office was a problem for the British as that type of solution would create a totally independent Ireland.

With some suitable gerrymandering from the British Crown over time the new intake into the Irish Parliament were convinced the British seal of office was the correct seal to use


This now means the present bunch we voted in are working under the British crowns seals of office and not the Irish seals of office

The evidence is clear when you look the Queen bitches visit to Eire .
Its required under the crown rules for the crown to visit the region where the serfs live every 100 years and collect the census or risk to lose dominion over that territory

A few bits of arm twisting and the gombeen men and women fell down in their knees to facilitate this issue and the rest is history they grew brown nose to beat the band.
Even some of the grooms of the stool showed up like Sir Rugger Bugger to grovel in this treasonous in your face serfs get used to your crowns visits when we buy up the gaff after we destroy your economy with gombeen men
Look our loyal serf like our good Sir Rugger Bugger who made the Eircon scam we scammed Irish grannies for mega bucks and we ant finished yet ripping your Island apart .
This time there will even be even Irish serfs flatulence taxes with meters attached to the rear ends along with window taxes as part of the global warming con job tax

Think of it like this there is country like France with the Vichy government who claim to control that section of France .Then there is the free french army outside France who adhere to the old republic.
Lets say the Germans stayed in France a hundred years .The new young French then might say look those nutters free french army outside France saying the Vichy government is the real thing .Why I lived all my life with The Vichy government and it is wonderball vorts spung tecknique.

Free French army" Idiocy. " :pac:

Maybe good idea to look how they tarred and feathered supporters of the Vichy government to know where supporting the wrong regime might get you

Derry

ANSI

derry wrote: »

Reading the last few replies there is some idea that freemen live in some sort of dreamland and not in realty for the Legal system that others claim is in in front of them.

they do

johnnyskeleton

Offy wrote: »

I tried to read it but tbh it was like reading Homer's 'The Odyssey', it belongs in a different age. I've seen one case of a young man in court for growing cannabis, this chap wasnt even sure of his own name. See here. Surly this is grounds to have the defendant committed to a mental institution? I mean if someone isnt sure of their own name how can they be sane?

Its hearsay I suppose. The only reason we know our names is because we hear people outside court saying it to us.

derry

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Pseudo law is dangerous. If people out there believe that there are loopholes they will try to use them. The only reason this thread is open and ongoing is that I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears; people will see this and we all win.

Well at least you admit your agenda is with a specific direction and nail your colors to that mast

Somehow judging from the world wide resurgence of interest in Non British legal systems and a return to tribal laws I suspect your agenda has a limited life span
It might take a bit of time but I suspect that one day not so long from now the Irish will rise up and throw out the British legal system possibly in its entirety
If some of the British Legal system remains I think the rump will be exclusively for Corporation laws between corporations.
I figure that many in the Irish legal system see that coming down the track and by entertaining some freeman esprit they can somehow steer it and do damage limitation exersize.
Maybe the Irish Legal systems DONS figure if they only pull back the half of the curtain on the yellow brick road that those shiny levers of power for the peoples to pull at will keep them entertained enough so they don't see the other side of the curtain hiding the other more important levers.
I wouldn't put money on that strategy . I figure being a member of the BAR will allow the Irish legal unemployed serpent helpers find work in the mother country who invented this legal system the UK.
Failing that retraining as tea boys for the Irish tribal elders who will be working for free to solve tribal legal issues might the be the next career move for ex serpent helpers
I figure it gonna be more like the fall of the eastern block wall one day everybody will reject the entire British legal system imposed on the Irish and it will cease to exist in Ireland as legal system.
Then the real government with the real seals of office will come into power and there will be a for sale sign or rent on the four courts .
Below these commercial signs will be
other warning signs" don't feed any stray starving serpents you see crawling out of their pits going down to local dole office to get one way tickets to some serpent friendly part of the world as they got well fed over 500 years and will bite any victims arms off if they can ":pac:

St Patrick serpent slayer Rules OK will be the tags on the walls of the derilect four courts

Derry

nuac

Derry

In your enumeration of Mafia groups you forgot the organisation that really runs this country - The Irish Countrywomens' Association - known as the Raffia Mafia.'

derry

Tayla wrote: »

Well if it works for the rich and the banks......................

Well actually if you look the ex minister for defense he showed people how they can use strategies in court similar to freeman logic
He used the famous line "I made a honest mistake "
This means he had turned the tables to the question and now they had to figure what was the honest part of the issue was and the mistake part of the issue and the two combined , and so the thread followed a new direction away from the question asked.

He knew as he is trained serpent helper that the courts are not there to make justice
If you know how to find the right words you can stir the mud and get away with a lot.

So for freemen strategy we would say legitimately if asked in court did you sign such and such say "yes but I made a honest mistake " .You cant be jailed for honesty logic :pac:

Then the shinners used one of the freeman type strategies.
Freeman strategy when all else fails and the case is finished and the sentencing comes there is one last exit possibility.

In this case the Shinners had thrown paint over some blob who wasn't happy about the new color scheme.
The judge said to the Sien Fein person that your guilty and the penalty is whatever it was
This is actually a offer of contract and the judge will always pause for three seconds.
In these three seconds you can do three things accept this offer or reject it or alter it .
If you say nothing for three seconds then the contract is now a done deed
For freemen they could reply I do not consent to any penalty in time in prison or fines
In the case of the Shinner she said no I do not consent to this penalty but I will accept the penalty of putting cash in the poor box.
She did a counter offer contract for the judge

The judge can come back with another offer or accept the the new contract
This is all to with the fact that the legal system is based on " consent "
If you don't consent there is a big "consent "issue for the contract

Think of it like a last chance get out of jail card and another ladder out of the serpents pit

Forget the rights and wrong of the case spin it for where the hell is the exit from this serpent pit is the name of the game for a freeman.

However for a freeman waiting to reach this point in the strategy is risking it a lot .

For a lot of freemen info this would be waste of time for them for the courts and for all concerned to reach that point when there were many exits many to take long before this point
Many of the best ones are never ever go do battle in the pits of the serpents as there are many other avoid the serpent pits cards out there if you know where to look for them


However the nature of humans they can be attracted to the gladiator nature of the serpent pit which is exactly what the serpents helpers will use
They will say see the freemen did this in the court bla bla
However they don't want to hear about the freemen who used the courts filters to avoid falling into the pit
There is no money in it for the serpents helpers to hear 99.9% of freemen avoided this pointless gladitor battle with the serpent

Show us proof of court case X Y Z where the freemen won they cry

Find another victim to enter the arena is the real cry they make as they try to cash in on this
The richer types however have a tendency to prefer to go the distance for the dare effect as often their serpent helpers have fed the serpents enough victims earlier on .

Two high profile working examples in your face , So all this saying the Freemen are on the wrong track now looks to be serpent poop :pac:

Derry

Finnbar01

Another thing I've noticed about freemen is that they like to go on a bit. If you ever had the pleasure of watching one of their utube videos, well something that could be said in about a minute takes them like 10 minutes to say it.

batistuta9

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Another thing I've noticed about freemen is that they like to go on a bit. If you ever had the pleasure of watching one of their utube videos, well something that could be said in about a minute takes them like 10 minutes to say it.

I think the award for the most characters in the fewest posts will go to derry

Di0genes

derry wrote:

This seal of office was a problem for the British as that type of solution would create a totally independent Ireland.

No a violent war of independence, a peace treaty, thirty years of political horsetrading and our consitution created a totally independent Ireland.

Your bull**** ignores the lives given over to achieve our independence. It demonstrates a clear and profound ignorance of both history and politics.

johnnyskeleton

derry wrote: »

Reading the last few replies there is some idea that freemen live in some sort of dreamland and not in realty for the Legal system that others claim is in in front of them.

Well can you point to any source for this theory other than other fremen rants? For example, where you claim that the Courts are actually a company, can you show me a company search, their articles of association or other evidence of it? Similarly, I don't see how a large entity such as the United States of America could become bankrupt and change its name every seven years without at least notifying somebody. You'd think that sort of stuff would be on wikipedia, wouldn't you?

The point is this - if you can point to actual real world events that are recorded by independent sources then you might have a realistic theory. If you rely on mere assertion then yes it is dreamland stuff.

Now, if you'll excuse me, a dragon and a manticore are debating the best method of matter exceeding the speed of light (since we obviously know without proof that such is readily possible) and I want to listen in.

Between The Mafia like RTE demanding a license to look at their colored electronic brain washing electrons and the millions of other incorporated mafias in Ireland the joe soap born into this has two choices accept his servitude to slavery position or decide who the hell are these often self appointed baboons to be demanding these things.

And in a democracy, if he doesn't believe in paying a licence fee he is entitled to run for government and change the law so that we don't have to pay for a licence fee.

A small amount of research reveals that the legal system is just another corporation that has been imposed on the people by another corporation called Government.Inc and this franchise to collect fines is meant for the other corporations and not the non corporation eg the peoples but people end up there so what went wrong ?

Deadly, please show me your research. I assume this research involves actually looking at evidence as opposed to making stuff up when you're on the toilet?

So another bit of research shows that Ancient tribal was laws for the peoples and was a reactive legal system they did not go around looking to invent rules and laws unless there was some serious need to.
The legal system did not pay people so no incentive to find problems

Interesting. But most of our laws relate to pressing social needs. For example, speed limits are there to ensure that people don't drive so fast that they are a danger to other people and themselves. Taxes are there to pay for government services etc.

Then along came the British law which was the opposite it was a stick it in your face system.

Just taking this point alone, you accept that this "British law" that you speak of is actually a valid system, in that it is entitled to create and enforce laws? Please answer this question with a simple yes or no. Because if yes then Fremen philosophy falls down and "British law" is perfectly entitled to impose its rules on people. If no, how is it that your tribal systems are valid systems but the "British law" system is not? From a philosophical point of view, there is either a power to set up a state and create and enforce laws or else there is not.

They employ peoples to go around inventing new laws and demanding tax collections for things like two windows on your mud hut.
Failure to pay this annual tax on your extra window would incur notices and fines and even prison or loss of the mud house

There is no such tax in Ireland. Do you accept that states are entitled to collect taxes? If not, then how do they finance public expenditure?

Then some Irish rose up and things nearly were sorted to go back to Irish laws until the British pulled a fast one.
The treaties allowed the Ireland.Inc to become a subsidiary Inc from the commonwealth that BUT still had to agree to keep British Laws

Where in the treaty does it say that?

No Freemen see the realty that the British legal system is not made to be fair or supply justice .

What specifically is unfair or lacking in justice in it? People pay taxes that go to assist those less fortunate and to pay for service. There is justice in that. The criminal courts laws to prevent people hurting each other. What's wrong with that?

They can change the court to be under local Bye laws or Admiralty rule or cannon law or run all of them at the same time concurrently so that the victims there can even become classed as salvage .then salvage needs storing in a salvage warehouse called a prison. The British legal system has nothing to with supplying justice .

Really, where are you getting this from?

Freemen in Ireland may not be able to know why they know the system isn't fair but they know it isn't

So you are now admitting that it is all nonsense i.e. you can't prove that it isn't fair but you nevertheless "know" it?

johnnyskeleton

derry wrote: »

It might take a bit of time but I suspect that one day not so long from now the Irish will rise up and throw out the British legal system possibly in its entirety

Stop calling it the British legal system. It is different. We have a written constitution that the people of Ireland approved in 1937 that gave us a radically different system of laws to the British. However, the people did accept by a majority that we should retain some similarities to the system that had previously existed (and which is simliar to legal systems all across the world). Things like rights of access to the Courts, trial in due course of law, individual liberty and free speech etc.

derry wrote: »

If some of the British Legal system remains I think the rump will be exclusively for Corporation laws between corporations.

This corporations thing is complete nonsense. I'm sorry but it is. You are a person. You are not a corporation. The State is entitled to pass laws that affect people. That's democracy. We the people at large have the right to set the laws and occasionally punish those individual members who step out of line, much like your Tribal justice system but on a grander scale.

derry wrote: »

I figure that many in the Irish legal system see that coming down the track and by entertaining some freeman esprit they can somehow steer it and do damage limitation exersize.

No they don't. They lock fremen up for wasting court time.

I figure it gonna be more like the fall of the eastern block wall one day everybody will reject the entire British legal system imposed on the Irish and it will cease to exist in Ireland as legal system.

And replace it with what? Anarchy?

derry wrote: »

In this case the Shinners had thrown paint over some blob who wasn't happy about the new color scheme.
The judge said to the Sien Fein person that your guilty and the penalty is whatever it was
This is actually a offer of contract and the judge will always pause for three seconds.
In these three seconds you can do three things accept this offer or reject it or alter it .
If you say nothing for three seconds then the contract is now a done deed
For freemen they could reply I do not consent to any penalty in time in prison or fines
In the case of the Shinner she said no I do not consent to this penalty but I will accept the penalty of putting cash in the poor box.
She did a counter offer contract for the judge

Do you have a report of this happening? Why three seconds? Why not two? Why not five? A contract cannot ordinarily be agreed to by silence so you are wrong there.

The poor box is a part of our current legal system and is not a creation of fremen codology as you seem to suggest. But if she were really free to accept reject or counter offer, why did she counter offer? Why not simply reject the offer and say "no thanks, I want to keep my money."

While we are on the subject, do fremen even believe in money? After all, it is a creation of the State and is really just a way of them keeping track of our spending habits via the computer chips in our brains, as everyone knows so I don't need to prove.

derry wrote: »

Show us proof of court case X Y Z where the freemen won they cry

Doesn't need to be a court case, can be proof that they didn't go to court. I have read that Blank of Ireland book and, contrary to what the author says it does, they did not accept his arguments.

derry wrote: »

Two high profile working examples in your face , So all this saying the Freemen are on the wrong track now looks to be serpent poop :pac:

Derry

Both examples are of normal workings of our legal system. Neither is an example of someone going "I don't stand under you judge and I do not consent" and then getting away with a criminal charge. In fact, there are examples of people saying such things and ending up in jail.

Offy

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

No they don't. They lock fremen up for wasting court time.

Firstly I am NOT defending Derry but maybe you should read your post and edit it. If you look at the link I provided the young man was NOT locked up, he got away with a measly €150 fine. This chaps family have been dealing drugs for over 20 years and thats the best the judge could do? They have destroyed more people's lives than either you or I can imagine. Shortly after the court case he went into the dole office and signed on. So much for all his freeman nonsence. Thats what I expect from these freemen. On another occasion, see here, he also escaped Jail. I wish I could believe you comment but Im afraid what Ive seen indicates differently.

johnnyskeleton

Offy wrote: »

Firstly I am NOT defending Derry but maybe you should read your post and edit it. If you look at the link I provided the young man was NOT locked up, he got away with a measly €150 fine. This chaps family have been dealing drugs for over 20 years and thats the best the judge could do? They have destroyed more people's lives than either you or I can imagine. Shortly after the court case he went into the dole office and signed on. So much for all his freeman nonsence. Thats what I expect from these freemen. On another occasion, see here, he also escaped Jail. I wish I could believe you comment but Im afraid what Ive seen indicates differently.

I wasn't referring to your link, but to the people who run this type of argument generally. It can equally be inferred that they don't go to jail because often their involvement with the law relates to a trivial road traffic matter or other minor offence.

ResearchWill

Offy wrote: »

Firstly I am NOT defending Derry but maybe you should read your post and edit it. If you look at the link I provided the young man was NOT locked up, he got away with a measly €150 fine. This chaps family have been dealing drugs for over 20 years and thats the best the judge could do? They have destroyed more people's lives than either you or I can imagine. Shortly after the court case he went into the dole office and signed on. So much for all his freeman nonsence. Thats what I expect from these freemen. On another occasion, see here, he also escaped Jail. I wish I could believe you comment but Im afraid what Ive seen indicates differently.

I'm not sure I understand your issue with the fine, the court decided for a very good legal reason the only charge correctly before him was the using a mobile phone while driving. Why should he get any more than 150 for that. Also all the arguments he used in fact had sound legal basis, the first charges related to driving with out a license etc. he had a certificate of competency the court accepted this as a license. He also accepted the jurisdiction of the court by taking an affirmation to tell the truth. The judge did not believe him about the phone and convicted him. Normal fine on first offence is between 100 and 200 from what I have seen.

Offy

ResearchWill wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand your issue with the fine, the court decided for a very good legal reason the only charge correctly before him was the using a mobile phone while driving. Why should he get any more than 150 for that. Also all the arguments he used in fact had sound legal basis, the first charges related to driving with out a license etc. he had a certificate of competency the court accepted this as a license. He also accepted the jurisdiction of the court by taking an affirmation to tell the truth. The judge did not believe him about the phone and convicted him. Normal fine on first offence is between 100 and 200 from what I have seen.

The point I was trying to make is that he uses the freeman argument in court and he never got locked up as johnnyskeleton stated. Added to that I was under the assumption (maybe incorrectly) that freemen didnt claim state benefits, the one I used as an example didnt until after the court case. I suspect he was stopped while using the mobile phone as AGS would know these people and how they make a living. I have no issue with the motoring fine but it seems to me that the fine for growing cannabis is a tad on the light side. I dont see drugs as a minor offence but thats just my view. The comment about the fine wasnt intended to refer to the motoring fine but to the drugs fine, apologies if I didnt make that clear.

ResearchWill

Offy wrote: »

The point I was trying to make is that he uses the freeman argument in court and he never got locked up as johnnyskeleton stated. Added to that I was under the assumption (maybe incorrectly) that freemen didnt claim state benefits, the one I used as an example didnt until after the court case. I suspect he was stopped while using the mobile phone as AGS would know these people and how they make a living. I have no issue with the motoring fine but it seems to me that the fine for growing cannabis is a tad on the light side. I dont see drugs as a minor offence but thats just my view. The comment about the fine wasnt intended to refer to the motoring fine but to the drugs fine, apologies if I didnt make that clear.

Maybe I missed a post, but the first link is a case where he tried freeman stuff and a not guilty plea was entered on his behalf and the matter adjourned. The second link was for a totally different case where in fact he did not use freeman arguments but very logical legal arguments, and was found guilty of a minor road traffic offence. can you link the drugs offence conviction. A fine is usual on a minor possession charge.

In relation to freemen claiming SW, well I expect nothing less.

Offy

ResearchWill wrote: »

Maybe I missed a post, but the first link is a case where he tried freeman stuff and a not guilty plea was entered on his behalf and the matter adjourned. The second link was for a totally different case where in fact he did not use freeman arguments but very logical legal arguments, and was found guilty of a minor road traffic offence. can you link the drugs offence conviction. A fine is usual on a minor possession charge.

In relation to freemen claiming SW, well I expect nothing less.

Let me try to clear up the confusion so.
johnnyskeleton "They lock fremen up for wasting court time."
Offy "maybe you should read your post and edit it. If you look at the link I provided the young man was NOT locked up".
Link 1
Link 2
He claims to be a Freeman yet he was not locked up for wasting the courts time.
FreudianSlippers "I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears"
I couldnt agree more. I am not debating the fine, Im pointing out that not all freemen get locked up when they use the freemen argument in court, some get off with a very light fine IMO. It would appear that this freeman decided not to use the freeman arguments when the AGS member had a very weak case, he only used it when he was caught with no escape, ie they use it only when it suits them. They have no real belief in it.
FreudianSlippers "the more apparently ridiculous it appears" - to the extent that they know its ridiculous -
Offy "some people will always grasp at straws especially when in a bad situation".

johnnyskeleton

Offy wrote: »

ResearchWill wrote: »

Maybe I missed a post, but the first link is a case where he tried freeman stuff and a not guilty plea was entered on his behalf and the matter adjourned. The second link was for a totally different case where in fact he did not use freeman arguments but very logical legal arguments, and was found guilty of a minor road traffic offence. can you link the drugs offence conviction. A fine is usual on a minor possession charge.

In relation to freemen claiming SW, well I expect nothing less.

Let me try to clear up the confusion so.
johnnyskeleton "They lock fremen up for wasting court time."
Offy "maybe you should read your post and edit it. If you look at the link I provided the young man was NOT locked up".
Link 1
Link 2
He claims to be a Freeman yet he was not locked up for wasting the courts time.
FreudianSlippers "I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears"
I couldnt agree more. I am not debating the fine, Im pointing out that not all freemen get locked up when they use the freemen argument in court, some get off with a very light fine IMO. It would appear that this freeman decided not to use the freeman arguments when the AGS member had a very weak case, he only used it when he was caught with no escape, ie they use it only when it suits them. They have no real belief in it.
FreudianSlippers "the more apparently ridiculous it appears" - to the extent that they know its ridiculous -
Offy "some people will always grasp at straws especially when in a bad situation".

It's a logical fallacy to say that because one person claiming to be a fremen was not locked up that that disproves my point that when they try these points they don't get off and more often end up in jail, like the guy who refused to acknowledge his name over the summer (granted, he was released on article 40, but for the purposes of this thread he judge did not react as fremen suggest and let him go, the judge jailed him instead).

ResearchWill

Offy wrote: »

Let me try to clear up the confusion so.
johnnyskeleton "They lock fremen up for wasting court time."
Offy "maybe you should read your post and edit it. If you look at the link I provided the young man was NOT locked up".
Link 1
Link 2
He claims to be a Freeman yet he was not locked up for wasting the courts time.
FreudianSlippers "I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears"
I couldnt agree more. I am not debating the fine, Im pointing out that not all freemen get locked up when they use the freemen argument in court, some get off with a very light fine IMO. It would appear that this freeman decided not to use the freeman arguments when the AGS member had a very weak case, he only used it when he was caught with no escape, ie they use it only when it suits them. They have no real belief in it.
FreudianSlippers "the more apparently ridiculous it appears" - to the extent that they know its ridiculous -
Offy "some people will always grasp at straws especially when in a bad situation".

In relation to your issue with the Drugs charge, I believed you took issue he had not been locked up. But that case is not finished, it is adjourned. So he may well still be locked up.

In relation to being locked up, it's a pity but we don't usually lock people for running stupid arguments. I know of no case of contempt in Ireland in relation to freemen. There was a case where a guy was locked up, but that was because the judge said he could not give bail to a person unless he was sure who he was. He was later released when he used the service of a solicitor a barrister and a senior counsel. So maybe a couple of nights in the joy made him think lawyers would be a good idea.

But I say again as you point out he succeeded in some charges by running very logical legally sound arguments.

Offy

ResearchWill wrote: »

In relation to your issue with the Drugs charge, I believed you took issue he had not been locked up. But that case is not finished, it is adjourned. So he may well still be locked up.

In relation to being locked up, it's a pity but we don't usually lock people for running stupid arguments. I know of no case of contempt in Ireland in relation to freemen. There was a case where a guy was locked up, but that was because the judge said he could not give bail to a person unless he was sure who he was. He was later released when he used the service of a solicitor a barrister and a senior counsel. So maybe a couple of nights in the joy made him think lawyers would be a good idea.

But I say again as you point out he succeeded in some charges by running very logical legally sound arguments.

The case was adjourned till 30 Sept. 2010, he got off with a minor fine (imo) as I recall. Unfortunately I cannot find an internet link to the latter case.

Offy

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

It's a logical fallacy to say that because one person claiming to be a fremen was not locked up that that disproves my point that when they try these points they don't get off and more often end up in jail, like the guy who refused to acknowledge his name over the summer (granted, he was released on article 40, but for the purposes of this thread he judge did not react as fremen suggest and let him go, the judge jailed him instead).

Fair point, I stand corrected.

ResearchWill

Offy wrote: »

The case was adjourned till 30 Sept. 2010, he got off with a minor fine (imo) as I recall. Unfortunately I cannot find an internet link to the latter case.

On a first offence section 3 small amount the fine would be very low in most DC's. But impossible to give any opinion on the sentence with out more information.

jblack

The repeated references to semantics, etymology and grammar and yet these guys can't string a sentence together.