Freeman Megamerge

MilanPan!c

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would consider Ben Gilroy more of an activist than a politician tbh. People like him often become popular by standing up for those less fortunate than oourselves and putting themselves on the line in the process (Tony Gregory is a prime example of this). Whether he has thought too hard on the Freeman bit is anyones guess, it may just be that the group has common cause.

Sure, don't worry about the fact that he's using the homeowners, none of whom he's ACTUALLY helped, to further his political campaign. Or that the group, who he's repeatedly promoted, are considered terrorists in the US. OR the fact that he is pushing a freeman con man on his own website...

Don't worry about any of that.

Pawwed Rig

I would be pretty well up on current affairs in the US and have never heard of that group being listed as terrorist which I would think implies that it does not take much to be listed as a terrorist in the US these days. They have been using the anti terror legislation and patriot act for all sorts of things they were never meant to be used for. Now if you are claiming an Irish group of lads who want to get off on speeding fines are linked to terrorism I think you should expand further

MilanPan!c

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I would be pretty well up on current affairs in the US and have never heard of that group being listed as terrorist which I would think implies that it does not take much to be listed as a terrorist in the US these days. They have been using the anti terror legislation and patriot act for all sorts of things they were never meant to be used for. Now if you are claiming an Irish group of lads who want to get off on speeding fines are linked to terrorism I think you should expand further

Sure, you're not that up on it.

Tim McVeigh, I assume you know that is?

Sovereign Citizen.



Here's the FBI page on it, which outlines more:

http://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/2010/april/sovereigncitizens_041310

Here's a lot more:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/sovereign-nation/

Here's what happened to the guy who came up with the modern version:

LeRoy Schweitzer was convicted of conspiracy, bank fraud, mail fraud, wire fraud, false claims to the IRS, interstate transportation of stolen property, threats against public officials, armed robbery of a television news crew, and firearms violations. He received a 22 year sentence for 25 convictions in a South Carolina federal prison, but was moved to the Administrative Maximum (ADX) facility at the Florence Federal Correctional Complex at Florence, Colorado, in 2006 after Ervin Elbert Hurlbert and Donald Little, who identified themselves as "Montana Marshals", attempted to free Schweitzer from the prison.[5][6] He died in the ADX on September 20, 2011.

That happened after this:

The Montana Freemen were a Christian Patriot movement based outside the town of Jordan, Montana. The members of the group referred to their land as "Justus Township" and had declared themselves no longer under the authority of any outside government. They became the center of public attention in 1996 when they engaged in a prolonged armed standoff with agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_Freemen

Go read that before you respond, please.

If you don't you might say some silly stuff, accidentally.

Here's a handy interactive map so you can see all the crime and violence they get up to:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/sovereign-nation/map/

But yeah, I'm sure it's nothing.

Pawwed Rig

Ah right so any militia group or solo nut job now has links to the Feeeman movement? There is no coherant connection between these events. A terrorist group would be defined by common cause and a shared ultimate goal. Plus you never clarified the links to the Irish Freemen and Ben Gilroy.

An example from your map

New Orleans, Louisiana

Louis Genard, a dentist, received a 30-month jail term on tax-related charges. One way he tried to avoid paying taxes was to declare himself an "ambassador of heaven," who had diplomatic immunity from federal government jurisdiction.

MilanPan!c

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Ah right so any militia group or solo nut job now has links to the Feeeman movement? There is no coherant connection between these events. A terrorist group would be defined by common cause and a shared ultimate goal. Plus you never clarified the links to the Irish Freemen and Ben Gilroy.

An example from your map

New Orleans, Louisiana

Louis Genard, a dentist, received a 30-month jail term on tax-related charges. One way he tried to avoid paying taxes was to declare himself an "ambassador of heaven," who had diplomatic immunity from federal government jurisdiction.

There IS a coherent connection. It's a little thing called ideology. They all believe the same "common law" crap that Ben and Marcus push.

At this point you're just saying **** to win an argument.

Go do the research.

The Irish Law Association and the Phoenix Magazine have both made the exact same connection as this, within the last few months.

Here's a bit about one of their favourite scams.

Some have exploited the nation's foreclosure woes by falsely promising desperate homeowners certain scams can save a person's home or eliminate mortgage debt. Some have been able to earn millions of dollars from their scams.

That's from the commercial appeal site.. one of the largest newspapers in the south.

MilanPan!c

I'd also point out that they all share the same logo.



Which is ALSO on the cover of the book, written by the sovereign citizen conman, that Ben gives away to anyone that donates to him:

Pawwed Rig

MilanPan!c wrote: »

There IS a coherent connection. It's a little thing called ideology. They all believe the same "common law" crap that Ben and Marcus push.

At this point you're just saying **** to win an argument.

This thread is supposed to be about the Freeman movement. Now most people post here with zero knowledge jumping on the 'me too' band wagon, with some link a and an insult. Whereas my point was that this movement is in response to real issues that are happening in this world with the perceived unfairness of a system that punishes less well off people in a much greater proportion than wealthy people. Whether what they are saying is legally a load of nonsense is irrelevant. They should still be listened to as they are entitled to a voice like everyone else.
Now to try and brand them as terrorist because a few people who commited henious crimes in another country have similar 'ideology' is a load of nonsense. It is the same as branding all Muslims as terrorist or having links to terrorism.

That map you linked to is also nonsense. I do not think anyone could make a reasonable argument that most of the 'crimes' there are part of the freeman movement. they have just come up with a map of anything with even a hint of freeman in them. Normally on boards we complain about how bias US media is. Funny how it is accurate when we think it back up our points.

MilanPan!c

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

This thread is supposed to be about the Freeman movement. Now most people post here with zero knowledge jumping on the 'me too' band wagon, with some link a and an insult. Whereas my point was that this movement is in response to real issues that are happening in this world with the perceived unfairness of a system that punishes less well off people in a much greater proportion than wealthy people. Whether what they are saying is legally a load of nonsense is irrelevant. They should still be listened to as they are entitled to a voice like everyone else.
Now to try and brand them as terrorist because a few people who commited henious crimes in another country have similar 'ideology' is a load of nonsense. It is the same as branding all Muslims as terrorist or having links to terrorism.

That map you linked to is also nonsense. I do not think anyone could make a reasonable argument that most of the 'crimes' there are part of the freeman movement. they have just come up with a map of anything with even a hint of freeman in them. Normally on boards we complain about how bias US media is. Funny how it is accurate when we think it back up our points.

Yeah, it's not about that.

You are completely talking out your arse.

Who started the movement? Do you know?

What where their motives?

Please tell us.

As for your claim that those crimes are not connected, I would say, if you knew more about the movement you might have a different opinion.

You talk about people jumping on this thread, "with zero knowledge" - frankly I'd put you in that group.

Who started the movement, why? Who mainstreamed the movement, how? Who named it "Freeman" - what happened to them?

Etc., etc., etc.

You're missing a lot of BASIC information and making a lot of false claims.

MilanPan!c

And sure, read this:

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2011/apr/17/west-memphis-police-chief-sovereign-citizens/

From that:

Jerry Kane and his son ascribed to a conspiracy theory called "redemption." They traveled the country holding seminars for homeowners upside down on their loans. The Kanes told them how to file what they believed to be the right paperwork with the county register's office to eliminate their mortgage balance.

Then remember that the guy who's Ben is pushing is travelling OUR country holding seminars and telling people how they can eliminate their mortgage balance. Remember as well, before Ben became so mainstream, his url was actually, freedomfromalldebt.com - sure that still redirects to his current website.

Pawwed Rig

Again back to the American movement. What are the links between the American movement and the Irish Freemen? Trying to understand you terrorism claims on a group of guys trying to get away with speeding fines. Most of the posts here are claiming that these guys should not be taken seriously but you are linking them to terrorists?

MilanPan!c wrote: »

making a lot of false claims.

I am not claiming anything or backing up anyone. I am trying to put an alternative point across, on one of the most one sided threads I have ever seen on boards, based on listening to alot of Freeman videos and listening to activists. I came on here with an open mind hoping to hear balanced debate whereas yourself and others seem completely entrenched in their positions. Do I need to have a full indepth knowledge of the history of every topic before posting? If that is the case I would suggest boards needs to take itself off the internet now.

MilanPan!c wrote: »

You are completely talking out your arse.

Be nice. It is called a discussion.

Grolschevik

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I am trying to put an alternative point across, on one of the most one sided threads I have ever seen on boards, based on listening to alot of Freeman videos and listening to activists. I came on here with an open mind hoping to hear balanced debate whereas yourself and others seem completely entrenched in their positions.

The very purpose of the thread is point out Freeman idiocy.

MilanPan!c

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Again back to the American movement. What are the links between the American movement and the Irish Freemen? Trying to understand you terrorism claims on a group of guys trying to get away with speeding fines. Most of the posts here are claiming that these guys should not be taken seriously but you are linking them to terrorists?

I am not claiming anything or backing up anyone. I am trying to put an alternative point across, on one of the most one sided threads I have ever seen on boards, based on listening to alot of Freeman videos and listening to activists. I came on here with an open mind hoping to hear balanced debate whereas yourself and others seem completely entrenched in their positions. Do I need to have a full indepth knowledge of the history of every topic before posting? If that is the case I would suggest boards needs to take itself off the internet now.

Be nice. It is called a discussion.

The links are that they believe the same thing and are connected to the Scottish movement and the American movement and the UK movement, etc., etc.

So, links would be their beliefs and their activity.

There is no alternative point of view. Trying to generate one when you don't even have basic facts is a waste of everyone's time.

Have you watched the McKeown seminars? Do you know what he claims?

Have you read the Phoenix Magazine piece? The Irish Law Society piece?

Have you spent time one the DDI forums? The FOTL forum? The TNS Forum?

Listened to their radio shows? Read their online newspapers?

I have.

You haven't.

Go get some info.

Finally, I'd rather spend my time exposing con men and nutters than being nice to people who just wanna argue for a larf.

It's harder still to be nice to you when you attack people for not knowing what they're talking about, when it comes to Freeman, while at the same time, spreading misinformation about the freeman. Why do something like that?

Pawwed Rig

MilanPan!c wrote: »

It's harder still to be nice to you when you attack people for not knowing what they're talking about, when it comes to Freeman, while at the same time, spreading misinformation about the freeman. Why do something like that?

Puzzled Who have I attacked?

Would it be better if I just joined in with the chorus on the thread by saying All Freemen are idiots or do the underlying social issues not come into the discussion.

MilanPan!c

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

Puzzled Who have I attacked?

Would it be better if I just joined in with the chorus on the thread by saying All Freemen are idiots or do the underlying social issues not come into the discussion.

You said this:

This thread is supposed to be about the Freeman movement. Now most people post here with zero knowledge jumping on the 'me too' band wagon, with some link a and an insult.

Was that meant to be a compliment?

Are you supposed to accept reality? Well, no one's forcing you too, but no one's gonna just have hypothetical discussions about some group that only exists in your head.

The actual freeman aren't any of the things you seem to think they are.

You know almost nothing about them.

Go learn more and then we'll have a nice chat.

But we can't have a nice chat when you make absurd claims about them, and don't even know the basics.

the world wonders

Corr served court order over €1.4m bank debt


Jim Corr has been ordered to appear before the Commercial Court over a €1.4m debt to ACC bank.

The Dundalk musician is to be cross examined next month by the bank's lawyers
...

234

the world wonders wrote: »

His solicitors have already come off record. Definitely a difference of opinion on how to approach the proceedings I'd imagine!

MilanPan!c

234 wrote: »

His solicitors have already come off record. Definitely a difference of opinion on how to approach the proceedings I'd imagine!

"This prison cell is an illusion"

MilanPan!c

The press is starting to get some basic facts right.

MilanPan!c

Soooo... There's someone on Twitter reporting a few interesting things.

@bengilroy A little birdie tells me you're charging people €400 a go to act as a McKenzie friend, any truth in it?

https://twitter.com/voodoo_criminol/status/324218099337420800

Hearing tell that one of Ben Gilroy's apostles was ejected from the Four Courts today, with some pretty scathing comments from the bench.

https://twitter.com/voodoo_criminol/status/324199856979705856

People asked for more info, this is what followed:

In the Burns case, apparently before Birmingham. Wasn't there myself, apparently ptf told "these people are not your friends"

Ben and his sidekick, needless to say, had a hissy fit,sidekick gave it a bit of "civil matter",jurisdiction, cops chucked him

Robbo

Off to chokey (when they catch up with him) for one of those "assisted" by Ben Gilroy.

I'm sure the many cost orders are substantial as well, putting him further in the hole.

MilanPan!c

Robbo wrote: »

Off to chokey (when they catch up with him) for one of those "assisted" by Ben Gilroy.

I'm sure the many cost orders are substantial as well, putting him further in the hole.

Hopefully Ben will follow shortly after..

MilanPan!c

From something called the Liberty Newspaper... just saw it on twitter..

MilanPan!c

One more tweet about the Burns case:

What I'm hearing is that it's clear Gilroy & Co. are bullying this guy into acting against his own best interests.

https://twitter.com/voodoo_criminol/status/326661344487174146

Robbo

I see in the Times today that Gerry Burns has purged his contempt and apologised for his previous behaviour. Another resounding Freeman victory.

MilanPan!c

Robbo wrote: »

I see in the Times today that Gerry Burns has purged his contempt and apologised for his previous behaviour. Another resounding Freeman victory.

Someone should contact him and see if he'd be willing to make a statement to the Garda fraud squad.

Robbo

Following the High Courts rejection of his "challenge" to the Household Charge, [REDACTED] (aka Peter Anthony Keegan) has been given a date for his prosecution in Westport District Court. It remains to be seen whether he'll be employing similar tactics as in his unsuccessful High Court action.

Robbo

This fine document has been lodged in the Central Office by the Attack the Tax people.

They've been soliciting donations for the newly incorporated Acorn to Oak Communications PLC to challenge the tax. Your donation gets you a share and according to them as you are then involved in active litigation with the Tax Man, they can't touch you for the property tax.

The usual Freeman/Bedroom litigant traits are all there; a shopping list of defendants (49!), going straight for the ould Convention on Human Rights, looking for $$$cashmoney in notional damages, poor typesetting and irregular capitalisation.

Weirder elements including claiming that a LRC report recommended certain aspects of feudal tenure be abolished, therefore the State no longer owns any land. They also allege that broken election promises form a deception offence.

Naturally, the thing reads like you showed a Junior Cert kid an actual plenary summons upside-down for 30 seconds and told them they had an hour in an exam hall to draft proceedings based on what they recall of it and their knowledge of the CSPE syllabus.

MilanPan!c

Robbo wrote: »

The usual Freeman/Bedroom litigant traits are all there; a shopping list of defendants (49!), going straight for the ould Convention on Human Rights, looking for $$$cashmoney in notional damages, poor typesetting and irregular capitalisation.

Weirder elements including claiming that a LRC report recommended certain aspects of feudal tenure be abolished, therefore the State no longer owns any land. They also allege that broken election promises form a deception offence.

Naturally, the thing reads like you showed a Junior Cert kid an actual plenary summons upside-down for 30 seconds and told them they had an hour in an exam hall to draft proceedings based on what they recall of it and their knowledge of the CSPE syllabus.

tee hee hee

It'd be high comedy if it wasn't so flipping dangerous..

That Fitzpatrick Financial Solutions are always at this guff. Love that he scribbled in "Legal Department" to satisfy whoever in Central Office questioned his standing to lodge the papers.

This won't get past the frivolous and vexatious application, just like the Debt Options nonsense.

Also have to love that our old buddy Peter Anthony Keegan - responsible for previous failures in the High Court - is the Secretary of the company. Well played sir.

Robbo

Deleted User wrote: »

That Fitzpatrick Financial Solutions are always at this guff. Love that he scribbled in "Legal Department" to satisfy whoever in Central Office questioned his standing to lodge the papers.

This won't get past the frivolous and vexatious application, just like the Debt Options nonsense.

Also have to love that our old buddy Peter Anthony Keegan - responsible for previous failures in the High Court - is the Secretary of the company. Well played sir.

Any links for the Debt Options case? Like some ghoulish archivist, I feel the need to record the various failures of these people.