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Freeman Megamerge

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    #1802
    themadhair
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭themadhair


    http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/the-freeman-movement-an-in-depth-analysis/

    The schemes covered in the Primetime piece appear to be cut&paste jobs from several that have been tried in the US – included the Dorean Group debacle which was referred to earlier in this thread.

    Almost every contortion of Freeman legal theories has been tried already, and rejected by, US courts. The result has been imprisonment, sanctions and a mountain of needless legal costs. If the US court system has demonstrated anything, it is that those in Ireland who will attempt the same Freeman shenanigans are on course for a severe legal smackdown.

    The trust-based schemes are particularly worrisome, and the question is not whether people will be burned – rather the question is how many and how badly?


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    #1803
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    themadhair wrote: »
    http://dialogueireland.wordpress.com/2013/10/30/the-freeman-movement-an-in-depth-analysis/

    The schemes covered in the Primetime piece appear to be cut&paste jobs from several that have been tried in the US – included the Dorean Group debacle which was referred to earlier in this thread.

    Almost every contortion of Freeman legal theories has been tried already, and rejected by, US courts. The result has been imprisonment, sanctions and a mountain of needless legal costs. If the US court system has demonstrated anything, it is that those in Ireland who will attempt the same Freeman shenanigans are on course for a severe legal smackdown.

    The trust-based schemes are particularly worrisome, and the question is not whether people will be burned – rather the question is how many and how badly?

    nice link...

    It might be worth looking at Marcus McKenna and his schemes as well as the early origins of the movement (pre-Redemption)... it might also be worth discussing how it's spreading into non-white groups (i.e. the Moor movement).

    I also think there's some pretty compelling evidence that this sort of thing has been promoted in Ireland for a good long time (Owen Fitzpatrick for example)...


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    #1804
    themadhair
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭themadhair


    We're planning to do more coverage as we gather more information. Our approach is to consider Irish examples against the background of nearly identical scams from other countries (mostly the US). Owen is on our list, but Marcus I haven't come across - have you got more information?


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    #1805
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    themadhair wrote: »
    We're planning to do more coverage as we gather more information. Our approach is to consider Irish examples against the background of nearly identical scams from other countries (mostly the US). Owen is on our list, but Marcus I haven't come across - have you got more information?

    Glad you've spotted Owen.

    Marcus is Gilroy's ... hero?

    If you donate to Gilroy you get a copy of his book... he gives speeches around the country telling attendees that, "all debt is an illusion" - just buy a ticket to see him and he'll tell you how...

    Just go to Gilroy's page: www.freedomfromalldebt.com and you'll see the "book".


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    #1806
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    nice link...

    It might be worth looking at Marcus McKenna and his schemes as well as the early origins of the movement (pre-Redemption)... it might also be worth discussing how it's spreading into non-white groups (i.e. the Moor movement).

    I also think there's some pretty compelling evidence that this sort of thing has been promoted in Ireland for a good long time (Owen Fitzpatrick for example)...
    Marcus McKeown, no?


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    #1807
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Robbo wrote: »
    Marcus McKeown, no?

    God. Yes. Sorry about that. I was up way too late watching baseball.


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    #1808
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    themadhair wrote: »
    We're planning to do more coverage as we gather more information. Our approach is to consider Irish examples against the background of nearly identical scams from other countries (mostly the US). Owen is on our list, but Marcus I haven't come across - have you got more information?
    Oh you'll love Marcus, he's big into NLP.


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    #1809
    themadhair
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭themadhair


    Robbo wrote: »
    Marcus McKeown, no?
    I do have him on my list then. Hard to know which is more overhyped though - NLP or Freeman ideology....


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    #1810
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    themadhair wrote: »
    I do have him on my list then. Hard to know which is more overhyped though - NLP or Freeman ideology....

    Def worth listening to some of his interviews and lectures. He is out there telling people that they literally can stop paying any debt they have to a bank, because it is literally illusory.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg.


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    #1811
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1812
    Evelyn Cusack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 165 ✭✭Evelyn Cusack


    Ben Gilroy arrested!

    If you skip over to brroadsheet.ie now you will see that Steve Kerr, responsible for youtube channel "Reality Ireland", has stated that Gilroy has been arrested and is being brought to the four courts.

    I Last saw Steve Kerr sitting on O'Connell bridge, can be sen harrassing politicians by sticking a camera in their face and shouting questions at them. A big supporter of Gilroys.


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    #1813
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Fred Swanson wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.
    Is that the new one with James Reilly and some nurses on the cover? Klaire's Krazy Krew have apparently a CRO receipt showing POE Limited as some form of entity. This is not helped by the CRO Search function being as useful as a marzipan dildo when it comes to acronyms and also carries the health warning that just because the CRO take your money and documents initially, this is no guarantee of issues not arising with incorporation.


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    #1814
    Robbo
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,563 Mod ✭✭✭✭Robbo


    Evelyn Cusack wrote: »
    Ben Gilroy arrested!

    If you skip over to brroadsheet.ie now you will see that Steve Kerr, responsible for youtube channel "Reality Ireland", has stated that Gilroy has been arrested and is being brought to the four courts.

    I Last saw Steve Kerr sitting on O'Connell bridge, can be sen harrassing politicians by sticking a camera in their face and shouting questions at them. A big supporter of Gilroys.
    If you go to Steve Kerr's Facebook, he's adding a new strand of whack****tery to the Freeman arsenal: Canon law and papal edicts.


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    #1815
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    Evelyn Cusack wrote: »
    Ben Gilroy arrested!

    If you skip over to brroadsheet.ie now you will see that Steve Kerr, responsible for youtube channel "Reality Ireland", has stated that Gilroy has been arrested and is being brought to the four courts.

    I Last saw Steve Kerr sitting on O'Connell bridge, can be sen harrassing politicians by sticking a camera in their face and shouting questions at them. A big supporter of Gilroys.

    It's on The Journal as well!
    ONE OF THE founders of the political movement Direct Democracy Ireland, Ben Gilroy, has appeared in court this morning after he was arrested at his home in Meath earlier.

    Gilroy was arrested at his home in Navan at around 8.45am this morning and appeared before Justice Ryan at the High Court in Dublin today.

    The case concerned the breach of a court order not to trespass on land at a Kildare stud farm owned by farmer Eugene McDermott earlier this year.

    Joint receivers to the land at Brannockstown in Naas allege that Gilroy was part of a group that forced agents of the receivers off the land last August.

    The judge adjourned the case until 22 November to give Gilroy two weeks to file an affidavit and for the plaintiff – the receivers – to respond to this.

    A number of Gilroy’s supporters joined him in court this morning.

    Gilroy was a candidate in last March’s Meath East by-election where he finished a surprise fourth, ahead of Labour’s Eoin Holmes.

    www.thejournal.ie/ben-gilroy-arrest-direct-democracy-ireland-1155963-Nov2013/


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    #1816
    Hippo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,879 ✭✭✭Hippo


    Robbo wrote: »
    Klaire's Krazy Krew have apparently a CRO receipt showing POE Limited as some form of entity. This is not helped by the CRO Search function being as useful as a marzipan dildo when it comes to acronyms and also carries the health warning that just because the CRO take your money and documents initially, this is no guarantee of issues not arising with incorporation.

    They're not registered yet according to Vision-net, but the process can take some time. €100 is the fee for registering a new company, as per the receipt.


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    #1817
    chopser
    Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭chopser


    Robbo wrote: »
    If you go to Steve Kerr's Facebook, he's adding a new strand of whack****tery to the Freeman arsenal: Canon law and papal edicts.

    First thing that popped up on his page was his like of Jim Corr's music.


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    #1818
    chopser
    Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭chopser


    Some serious ludicrous defences appearing and being validated on that guys facebook page!


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    #1819
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    chopser wrote: »
    Some serious ludicrous defences appearing and being validated on that guys facebook page!

    Wouldn't be surprised if they were lifted from the pages of the Common Law Society.


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    #1820
    joela
    Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭joela


    Can I just say I'm fecking delighted that this is happening, he is a charlatan and this freeman codology needs to be kicked to touch sooner rather than later. Too many groups now trying to use it to ignore the law and it will always be the vulnerable who will suffer as a result.


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    #1821
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    joela wrote: »
    Can I just say I'm fecking delighted that this is happening, he is a charlatan and this freeman codology needs to be kicked to touch sooner rather than later. Too many groups now trying to use it to ignore the law and it will always be the vulnerable who will suffer as a result.

    Either outcome is gonna be hilarious:

    - He uses Freeman crap in court and loses
    - Use hires a proper solicitor and uses actual "law" and win/loses


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    #1822
    Valentine1
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Valentine1


    Anybody in the courts today able to give an update?


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    #1823
    joela
    Registered Users Posts: 478 ✭✭joela


    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/political-activist-ben-gilroy-in-court-over-trespass-order-1.1580761


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    #1824
    Fred Swanson
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


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    #1825
    returnNull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭returnNull


    He also directed that Mr Gilroy file his replying affidavits within two weeks.

    excuse my legal ignorance but what does the judge mean by asking gilroy to file his replying affidavits?


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    #1826
    Pro Hoc Vice
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,087 ✭✭✭Pro Hoc Vice


    returnNull wrote: »
    excuse my legal ignorance but what does the judge mean by asking gilroy to file his replying affidavits?

    The receiver has brought proceedings to jail Mr. Gilroy that application is based on affidavits sworn by whoever is giving evidence. So now Gilroy is been given time to put his side of the story also on affidavit. A large amount of cases the only evidence is in the form of Affidavit.


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    #1827
    returnNull
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,235 ✭✭✭returnNull


    Thanks infosys.
    infosys wrote: »
    So now Gilroy is been given time to put his side of the story
    this should be fun:P


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    #1828
    MilanPan!c
    Site Banned Posts: 4,415 ✭✭✭MilanPan!c


    returnNull wrote: »
    Thanks infosys.


    this should be fun:P

    Bearing in mind that 90% of what Ben has done in court previously is simply delaying tactics.


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    #1829
    Valentine1
    Registered Users Posts: 434 ✭✭Valentine1


    MilanPan!c wrote: »
    Bearing in mind that 90% of what Ben has done in court previously is simply delaying tactics.

    No doubt there will be plenty of those but I'm interested to see what he does now that he stands to actually carry the can for his Freeman antics. All very well to blather on about firing receivers and the number of strings on an insignia when its not you who has to face the consequences. I'm sure there will be a Solicitor on record and affidavits filed. I'm not expecting any of his Freeman nonsense until after he has left the Court room.


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    #1830
    Oryx
    Subscribers Posts: 19,425 ✭✭✭✭Oryx


    I doubt he will choose to do time for contempt, unlike at least one other person who has been sucked in by this nonsense.


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    #1831
    theholyghost
    Closed Accounts Posts: 374 ✭✭theholyghost


    Would he be allowed to spout the freeman stuff? Is it contempt to be a nut?


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