Freeman Megamerge

Finnbar01

nuac wrote: »

Ok Derry - whatever.

Stand up in any court on a busy morning and insist the judge consider these points.

A tip, bring your toothbrush and pjs

That's not how he works. His job is to hoodwink others into doing that.

derry

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Derry, three questions:

1. What is the purpose of the ruse that the courts are a corporation? Why, when the British system was being created and adopted in Ireland did they build in this flaw where if you know to say you are a human not a corporation you get away with anything?

2. If fremen were in control of the country and could set the laws, how would they stop people driving at whatever speed they like and potentially killing someone?

3. If fremen don't believe in tax but do elieve in the government making roads, hosptals etc, how does the government pay for it?

101 time again
question 1/
The British serfs got the Magma Charter that gave them rights common law rights . The British Crown resented this and ever since tried to make laws that could override these common law rights
So each time a new commercial law was made there had to be a exit built in to ensure humans were not included .However the Defense lawyers cant make money from that showing humans the exits. So the defense lawyers ensure if your stupid you don't find the exits .Over time many hundreds of years laws are built in layers like a onion and the exits get more difficult to find and spot even f your looking for them .
Some groups study the layers and can now navigate away from some issues in law when in court
However the more successful solutions to date is to navigate clear of the snake pits using some of the courts own inbuilt filters which try not to get tangled up in non earning court cases that don't go a Cha Ching Ching as the money rolls in and talk about humans shouldn't be in their commercial courts.
In fact its even looking from the actions of the Judges recently fed to the back teeth of the corporation government.ie sending them uneconomic flotsam like car tax non payments from social welfare claimants who pay back buttons that their probably more happy to entertain getting out of this activity as its drying up compared to the alley cat days .(err fake tiger economy days )
So its even looking like that the maneuvers by the Humans in Eire to get Human cases heard in alternative court systems like Ancient tribal Irish laws system might suit them fine
Its maybe looking like its Sorta like pushing on a open door from the lack of push back seen
Sorta logical really then "The Courts LTD " can go back to commercial courts for commercial issue and make the cha ching ching sound go better without messy humans cluttering up the show .

However that is a maybe the case for Ireland.Inc where we haven't a Crown so in our face set up
In the UK the Crown would rather Blow the whole place to bits than let the serfs take over the show but that's another issue outside my scope which remains for me Eire

Question 2
Ancient Irish laws were more practical than British law .For example say one guy was a wobbly and owned a sword. Say for no reason he attacked a neighbor farmer and cut his arm off . With that event the one armed farmer could no longer do his farming. The tribal leaders would impose that the wobbly would have to do the farming work for free the victim farmer so he could continue to feed his family.
If the wobbly couldn't do all or some of the farm work his family would have to muck in and do it. If they too for some reason couldn't do it then his whole tribe would have to muck in and do this extra farm . Very soon if the wobbly went cutting off too many arms of too many farmers he would be sorted by his tribe fed up of his activity causing them unnecessary financial pains . They could impose solutions on him such as remove his right to carry sword's. The system is based on fairness at its core with no paid legal peoples just tribal elder working for free for the tribes overall good. They only tackle real problems as they happen and they don't look for problems.
British law however would imprisons the same sword welding wobbly and probably imposes fines from him for this sword attack .
However the victim farmer and his family often would starve to death from this attack where the arm is cut off as the farmer could not do his farming anymore and often he would receive no compensation as the wobbly often had not much wealth as he was usually another farming peasant of the land .
However the legal peoples will get paid and receive the fine moneys and leech of society who have to pay taxes while often imposing unfair so called justice solutions .

A good example is In modern Ethiopia and Sudan where governments don't exist very much and things are very tribal there
Often there is no car or truck insurance much to be found. Tribes then basically self insure the cars and trucks. If there is a accident the tribe will sort out the costs. If some driver is prone to to many accidents from speeding he gets sorted out also. So if he can speed and not have accidents there isn't a issue.However real world stuff excessive speeds makes more accidents
As the tribes use cars and trucks and go across other tribal regions the same tribe will take responsibility for their tribe member when he goes into other tribe regions.The other tribe do that in reverse .
It works very well in Africa where even Governments don't operate
For Eire It requires us the people to decide that we will form new structures that will take responsibility for the actions of others who belong to us in ways such as families or tribal allegiances or similar.
It wont be possible to kick to touch the problems to the old British model the government looks after the activities like excessive speeding.
Right now lots of people get fined for going fast on very good roads and get no problems to go too fast on the bad roads where the RECOMMENDED speed limits are often too high. This tends to allows irresponsible people to speed in the worst places the small roads which cant cope with excessive speeds
Hope that give you some ideas how roughly it would work but here are many details that are to complex to explain in one page never mind one year to you

Question 3
The present system of Irish government losses over one third of all the taxes it collects to a waste full system called the Usury banking model.
Effectively the Irish government borrows money with interest from the Banks.
The banks for security demand the tax money be collected and sent direct to them and they issue more loans with interest to the government.
The government then makes roads hospitals etc with these bank loans not the taxes which the banks get
As governments never pay back the principle only interest on loans the dept never get paid back even after 100 years the dept is still being paid for .
Example the government borrows $1,000,000 at 10% interest so every year they pay back $100,000 .Then after 10 years they have paid back the 1,000,000 loan .However the loan never ends so after 100 years they paid back $10,000,000. Now as every year they borrow money the dept mountains grow exponentially
After time typically 50 years the debt repayments exceed the total tax take and the country is bankrupt and defaults . Then the Banks receivers like IMF move in take everything the oil, the gas, the coal , the forests, the farms, the lands the lot.
Then the peoples become indentured slaves on the plantations of the large corporations that are friends to the banks like the IMF .often the IMF bank take down the countries in the later stages of the usury banking model cycle .
Then the hospital schools and so forth stop to exist and the people die from no water no food no home they afford to rent and no nada .

So depending the country the loans etc each country is somewhere in this cycle if they are using the usury banking model which is 99% of the countries in the world

One fairly modern example of a nation that cracked how to solve this problem and with in ten years turn the story around and become fabulously wealthy was the pre war Germany. The Hitler run Germany pre war chose to copy history examples and turn the tables on this usury model which had helped to destroy the post WW1 German economy.
In Hitlers Germans case they copied the more ancient economic model the Venice banking model that has worked for 600 years in Venice. This banking model brought fabulous wealth to the Venice merchant classes for 600 years .The Venice system had no usury banking interest . It was based on basically invoices as collateral notes of exchange. Simply explained say a merchant had 100 tons of wheat in a wheat barn. He would get a certificate of ownership that he had this wheat stored in a location and trade this certificate like cash in the system . Eventually a final user who could use or sell the wheat would take the wheat and the 100 ton wheat certificate would no longer exist in the system. It might become 100 tons of flour certificate or maybe sold as bread for gold
So the certificate system based on real goods in circulation could never suffer inflation or deflation very much .These certificates of goods ensure banking stability where no booms and bust cycles came along. For some 600 years Venice went from strength to strength .

Pre war Germany too found that when they copied this Venice banking model they got very rich very fast . Instead the 30% of the economy going to the banking classes to be often used outside the country the money went back into Germany and made the economy grow at a very rapid pace
However Hitler did not intend to stop there and the war after this destroyed to history this example economy which exposed the Usury banking model for what it is ,a way for the rich Banksters to steal everything as they make us into interest owing banking indentured slaves
There also exist Islamic banking models that also are non interest payment systems . Some of them in some Islamic countries where the corruption is low have proved to work very well.
There are also other economic models based on mixes of the Venice or pre WW2 German models or other less well known examples that all have one common theme no usury baking model in them .
However various countries that have tried to implement these other forms of banking models have often had their countries economically boycotted or worse bombed back to the stone age when the usury banking model users like the USA or EU see them try these new idea´s out .
Ask Gaddafi of Libya 2011 he announced he wanted to bring in the new solution for Africa to the Usary banking model the gold backed Libyan Dinar using his 800 tons of gold .
Within months he went from the darling to the USA and the EU to public enemy no 1 got the hell bombed out of Libya and then Gaddafi was dead .

There does exist solutions to these issues that are not as extreme as the Gaddafi or Hitler pre world war solutions mostly centering around the state prints Fiat money into existence and the banks can only act as agents to store the cash .
Sort of Venice banking model light version for the internal economy Then the external economy could still operate with some very limited usury banking model where there was severe restrictions to to its ability to over extend its borrowing.
Nothing is new under the sun the Roman empire had at times the Usary banking model . Every 50 years they had the jubilee year
That was when every fifty years the debts mountains from the usury banking model were so damaging to the economy they reset all debts back to zero and restarted the economy.
Needless to say present Banksters don't like that Roman model restart every 50 years so they rather keep with the present model keep bleeding us to death until we are dead from debts .
Its sorta like whipping a dead horse logic what modern Banksters want from their slaves horses
Look Eire now and Enya boy how he laps up the whipping from the Banksters and he is giving sweat blood tears and austerity birth pains to them in bucket loads

Derry

johnnyskeleton

I thought the magma charter was about how volcano owners had the right to do what they want without interference from the earthquake king.

Also, you are putting up Ethiopia and Sudan as fremen paradices where everything is cool? You do know that people are indiscriminately butchered in Sudan over the last few years?

You are assuming that tribal elders will somehow sort out any wrong committed against it. That usually ends in civil war. What about if there is one really powerful tribe that bullies all the other tribes and there is nothing the others can do about it. How is that fair?

Do you accept that a soverign nation can create it's own rules and laws? For example, you believe murder should be illegal so if you made the law it would be illegal? How is this any different to us saying that we as a society deem speeding illegal?

There have been many great intellectuals and philosophers from Hobbes to loche who have all discussed the reality of a states power. Are you saying they are wrong and the Somali pirates are actually correct? Because that's what it sounds like to me.

Corruptable

Magma Charter indeed.

I think you're a leg puller, the human person of the name Derry, but it's not wasting my time, as this is excellent preparation for my law exams.

johnnyskeleton

Corruptable wrote: »

Magma Charter indeed.

I think you're a leg puller, the human person of the name Derry, but it's not wasting my time, as this is excellent preparation for my law exams.

I would like to have a conversation with a real freman. It's facinating how they view things. It would be great if they engaged in actual discussion or tried to base their views on objectively verifiable sources or links. However, most of them are only really interested in avoiding justice rather than doing justice.

Corruptable

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

I would like to have a conversation with a real freman. It's facinating how they view things. It would be great if they engaged in actual discussion or tried to base their views on objectively verifiable sources or links. However, most of them are only really interested in avoiding justice rather than doing justice.

It would be interesting, but the natural persons who swear by it tend to resort to violence when they don't achieve the desired result, so that's something to bear in mind.

I've known a few people with an interest in the whole freeman thing, all of them have become interested in it as a perceived way to avoid responsibility for their actions, but it seems to stem for a lack of knowledge about the functioning of the legal system which pervades society (i.e.: everything legal is shrouded in legalese, so anyone can just make it up).

I equate it to the type of thing you feel when a lecturer mentions a loophole in the law or when you find the same in caselaw, and hence that's what encourages followers of it. I just find it amusing that holes are so obvious and yet these people have to make up their own!

jblack

If we're being Rick Roll'd or whatever it's known as, then Derry is a genius.

derry

nuac wrote: »

Ok Derry - whatever.

Stand up in any court on a busy morning and insist the judge consider these points.

A tip, bring your toothbrush and pjs

You guys are fixated on the standing in court and telling the judge in court some big thing

Anybody who studies this subject would say court is probably the last place on earth your likely to solve any problems

However to humour your fantacy about this court thing

Example say I am walking down the street and the street has a walk only one way traffic sign . Lets say the government was so broke they brought in a on way walking rule and I broke it and a cop stops me and give a fixxed penalty fine that must be paid on the spot
Lets say i got no cash with me.
I can chose there and then not to accept the notice . But lets say the cop wont go with that and arrests me and brings me to the station.then he demands my ID
Lets say and i give something say my passport. He might ask me is that you pointing at the passport . I would reply to him I am me I cannot be that piece of paper you hold . The cop has to charge me for something or he has to let me go . .Lets say he charges me with not paying the on the spot fine so then he has to bring me to court ASAP.
Now when i arrive to court its simple
When they ask something do you plead guilty or innocent whatever they might say I will say "i am here under duress and i do not consent" .
Most the system of the law is built on consent to recognize the judge has the right to judge you.

If you do not consent there is immediate a problem for the Judge.
Most judges will kick for touch and throw the case out as there is two issues your there under duress and you do not consent to him to be your judge
There is lots of other stuff but we go through these at the studies on thes subjects .
Basically we the people ant in the business to tell judges the magna charter they already know it so there zero that we teach them about it
We the people ant in the business to change the money earning commercial courts for commercial activity that makes them in commercial courts pots of money.

We are in the business of quickly identifying ourselfs as humans not to be converted to commercial corporations and end up tangled up in commercial activities which isn't interesting for us and seems is getting less interesting for the commercial courts .

However sometimes you individually get unlucky get a judge who wants to go all the way so various study groups on this subject device as many strategies as they can to cater for this type of issue your in the pit with the snake and he wants to bite you bad .
The typical first trap will be the judge will offer you legal consul for free
First rule there is nothing for free.
If you accept any of their lawyers from the BAR (British accredited registry ) you are now dead meat as you have consented to the Judge to be your judge .
He now can decide your fate eg you now contracted with the Judge. The judge has contract with the BAR people eg they work for him . If you contract with them you take a barrister or lawyer now you have a contract with the judge and now your guilty of the crime they invented against you like walking up the street the wrong way
Its end of story pack your pajamas and tooth brush.doesn't matter what the crime is your now guilty.
Your new found defense lawyer might spin a yarn about something and the wind might blow the right way and the judge might be getting his nuts that night and decide to let you off because he like a good yarn to break the boredom of yet another wrong way street walker in his court .
Its all pot luck after you employ one of his hench men from the BAR but mostly your toast after that .
However when your defending yourself its a different story then the Judge has got the possibility to make you fall into traps if he wants .
"Do you understand me" he might say . If your stupid and say yes your toasted . Again he has actually said using legal ease do you stand under me meaning do you accept that I will be higher than you and therefore can judge you.

If you reply I do not stand under you you are making it clear that the judge is as civil servant and still your servant and you still remain over him .
Usually most Judges when they are now no longer hearing that regular cha ching ching that makes the money roll in will throw the case out at that point with some remark like watch which way you walk up the footpaths in future and follow the road signs recommendations and do yourself a favor learn the green cross code

But the best rule is ensure the paper work never allows the case to ever see the court is the best solution
So the paper work that quickly identifying yourself as human and not suitable prey for the court system usually means court filters systems will block the case ever coming to court .

However some people are hell bent keen to get stuck in to the pit believing they have some magic formula to slay the serpents
500 years of History show that's rarely ever gonna to happen the serpent get practice every day and he can make a thousand mistakes with no penalties but the victims only must make one mistake and their toast .

Most anybody who really studies this subject will tend to say sod that find every way possible known to avoid going into that pit
however if you ever have the misfortune to fall into the pit here are some possible ideas where to find the ladders spread around the court room to get humans out from the pit before they get eaten alive .
Needless to say Some ladders are better than others .


Contrary to what many of you keep saying many of us never study this stuff to ever use it in real life .
Many of us always recommend most people for example that if they got a speeding fine just pay up if they can afford the price of it .
However if for example your on your last penalty points and the fine and the points will make you lose the license then these strategies might save you if the car license is that important for you.

Alway´s it down to risk to benefit ratios . Resisting the system is time consuming and can easily become a means to an end in itself and there exists possible severe risks if you get it wrong

Many in these subject study of freemen are more keen to develop the logic the commercial courts go their way we go ours they do their commercial thing we do our human thing.

Test Court cases in commercial courts are the last place many who study the subject would believe there is likely to be any progress made Its also much more likely to be counter productive

The best way to think about it is like the Gannet birds that eat the fish at sea. These birds don't want to eat pieces of plastic flotsam . It makes them feel full up but doesn't norish them at all . So if some new way was developed that could make Plastic flotsam look uninteresting to eat to Gannets they could avoid those non food items and instead get back to eating the fish what they should eat .

Same here for us we figure to the court system all these speeding fine no car tax, no this, no that, stuff isn't as juicy money making as a good real commercial case .Court cases like a dispute between big enterprises who fall out over some merger or something and the commercial courts make pots of money from that .

However the Government,corp which has as its slave master the banksters demanding their tax collections want every penny they can get from us with car tax and other con job taxes that we humans should not have to pay.
So the government.corp puts pressure on the policy enforcement corporation the " Garda.corp" and "The Courts.Ltd "to make us pay up. Then we get tangled up in commercial courts where we shouldn't ever be.

No for many of us who study this issue the real direction to change is the principle that humans should never face trials in commercial courts.
Many commercial court problems can be solved with other solutions
Examples of this are traffic calming island often can slow speeding cars netter than so called regular speed cameras and fines can .
Some police departments in the USA and the UK have scraped all speed fine solutions as they don't improve safety for motorists and gone for other methods .
Sweden has scraped nearly all traffic lights and done way with the majority of jumping the traffic light fines .
Using fines and courts and Garda for many the problems for safety or for revenue generation is often counter productive for all concerned

Many of us studying these issue would prefer to be involved in making useful solutions and getting humans out of commercial courts where to be honest often they never should have been there in the first place.
For us looking across the world at other solutions to these problems we can only be often gob smacked how often only in Ireland do we find so many peoples in courts for often minor stupid things that should have been dealt with some where else.

.
So here we go 101 lesson for legal eagles 500 years of commercial courts has shown that most cases are boring rerun of similar cases that have been done thousands of times before and there is virtually no possibility that some new strategy will make the case go a new way if you decide to follow the courts methods. If you follow commercial courts methods your already guilty so might as well give up a that point.
The only few strategies s that might work is to ensure that the court case never gets to court .If you are arrested then brought to court and If the court case does get to court identify your human position clearly in the correct way and your lack of consent and your there under duress.

Many who study this isssue phrase the problem as best as possible some strategies might work but they all have inherent risks attached to them and playing with fire always has majors risks to it

However if you back is against the wall and you have no choice knowings strategies might solve the issues . However not knowing anything is much more likely to be the worst solutions

Derry

derry

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Also, you are putting up Ethiopia and Sudan as fremen paradices where everything is cool? You do know that people are indiscriminately butchered in Sudan over the last few years?

You are assuming that tribal elders will somehow sort out any wrong committed against it. That usually ends in civil war. What about if there is one really powerful tribe that bullies all the other tribes and there is nothing the others can do about it. How is that fair?

Do you accept that a soverign nation can create it's own rules and laws? For example, you believe murder should be illegal so if you made the law it would be illegal? How is this any different to us saying that we as a society deem speeding illegal?

There have been many great intellectuals and philosophers from Hobbes to loche who have all discussed the reality of a states power. Are you saying they are wrong and the Somali pirates are actually correct? Because that's what it sounds like to me.

many questions

These countries Somali and Sudan are huge countries with large variations between them and between them are probably as big as all of western Europe
.
The wold has largely ignored these regions for decades after the major international infusions from the past where the great powers fought with each to gain the upper hand in the USA versus soviet USSR times
However fairly recently a few expeditionary groups were pleasantly surprised how well the countries were considering they had no real government worth talking about.
Things are not perfect but compared with many countries with governments they appeared to preform very well.They studied the story and concluded that the return of the elders in charge instead of the young guys with Guns and the remaking of the tribal systems had been the main reasons for the remarkable successes

As for the Pirates they are a very few peoples on the coast of the country.Many of them lost their fishing lively hood to large nations fishing vessels who stole all the fish so were forced into piracy to survive .However the tribal system exists in their world also.
I have a rule when traveling .
If I see the locals doing something that i would class as stupid or what ever on further investigation i often conclude that if i was a local what they are doing is exactly what i would do when presented the same set of circumstances .
No these places are not paradise or even perfect
yes there are parts where murder and the young guys with guns still rule the show.
However the big surprise was how the majority of these places when the external influences of the massive wars and massive gun for sale were over that elders although often unarmed came back to take the reigns of control and get the fragile economy moving again .
Young guys armed with guns when food ran out realized that elders had many ways to make things work that guns alone could no achieve.

Its still fragile in many parts of these regions but the world had assumed these regions were doomed to remain forever lost in civil strife
Somehow the majority of the region with tribal elders and tribal laws came back from the brink without any outside help and have brought the region back to a economic level that had surprised the experts who expected to find wanton Chaos in the region

There are other parts of the world where tribal laws also is at work but the examples from this region shows that even when destroyed with wars this system is so natural to humans it comes back nearly totally intact as if it never left the region
Where we decry speeding as a lethal activity they decry young guys with local drugs losing the plot and letting lose with the guns .People get killed and injured from that activity .
Elders over time have reduced these accidents using social pressures to get past young with guns .many young guys with a decade of fighting behind them now prefer to plan things like farming as they see guns have no real long term solutions to offer them .
Based on this its not such a jump for us to look at Eire and say if tribal laws can return to the most war torn mucked up parts of the world and operate where even governments don't operate then surly in Ireland we can revive tribal law and get it working here to sort out many of these local and national serious issues .

In Ireland we got serious problems with drug users and drug gangs.
The commercial courts are not solving this problem even with big sentences for selling large amounts of drugs .
In tribal set up the elders can often effect some control on the worst of hot heads to stop the senseless killing and shooting

The tribal system world wide has shown a remarkable ability to sort out problems that no amount of impersonal commercial courts can ever sort out with custodial sentences

With the massive input of the modern state it might require some input from the state to keep the tribal ssytem working at times such as when the local factory closes and the half locals move out


Derry

Marcusm

derry wrote: »

101 time again
question 1/
The British serfs got the Magma Charter that gave them rights common law rights . ...

Derry

Derry,

Might be time to start the class before 101. The Magma Charter probably has something to do with volcanoes. If you are relying on the Magna Cara (or rather if your England based brethren are), you might want to go back and look at the various iterations f it. I say this as it provided no rights to the serfs or the common good. It, inter alia (you seem to like pseudo latinisms), provided remedies to the and owning nobility against their leader, the monarch.

Harder to pick holes in your arguments if they were a little better founded.

nuac

Derry

Thanks for your reply last night. Have a good day.

drkpower

There is a bit of a rubber-necking at a fatal car crash feel about this thread, or at least the last couple of pages. I wonder if it should be closed (at least temporarily). Its all a little bit unfair, and probably doing noone any good at all.

MagicSean

Somalia and Sudan are doing ok? Since when is famine, poverty, piracy and civil war something to aspire to?

Our man in Havana

Thank Crunchie it's Freeman Friday!

Di0genes

derry wrote: »

many questions

These countries Somali and Sudan are huge countries with large variations between them and between them are probably as big as all of western Europe
.
The wold has largely ignored these regions for decades after the major international infusions from the past where the great powers fought with each to gain the upper hand in the USA versus soviet USSR times
However fairly recently a few expeditionary groups were pleasantly surprised how well the countries were considering they had no real government worth talking about.

Famine in Sudan
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2101786,00.html

40 dead in clashes
http://www.businessweek.com/news/2011-12-09/south-sudan-clashes-leave-40-people-dead-un-says.html

derry

Marcusm wrote: »

Derry,

Might be time to start the class before 101. The Magma Charter probably has something to do with volcanoes. If you are relying on the Magna Cara (or rather if your England based brethren are), you might want to go back and look at the various iterations f it. I say this as it provided no rights to the serfs or the common good. It, inter alia (you seem to like pseudo latinisms), provided remedies to the and owning nobility against their leader, the monarch.

Harder to pick holes in your arguments if they were a little better founded.

Thanks for the info
For most of us who make studies on this subject we quickly decide that we are not interested in the studying the subject of the law that the UK has as it a foreign occupier law that still remains in Ireland.Inc
Rather we look for solutions to how do joe soaps and freemen and similar avoid contracting or getting involved with this Commercial court system which we inherited.
We also strive to find solutions such as replacements like ancient Irish laws which were in our opinion far superior to these imported British non solutions.
To understand what we need to know of the enemy British law system we have a quick basic look at it and move rapidly through the system to get to know where the levers are that can be used by us to ensure we never get inside these courts.If those methods fail we look for methods that will get us out of these courts in the fastest methods and often that is without getting confrontational or raising controversy.
However like all movements where there are many different opinions on how to slay the serpents some within the freeman movements will be drawn to the idea of the gladiatorial approach
This Gladiatorial approach is most often pushed by the UK freeman movements and will try the educating the Judge on the history of law approach inside a gladiatorial environment the commercial. courts.
AS we in the freeman movement have a different agenda different needs and different targets we dont need or want to get hung up on the fine details of the system .We only want to find the basics how to avoid the Pitfalls,how to find the exits if you fall into the pit. How to keep the serpents at bay long enough and not contract with them so that they lose interest in you as prey and eject you from the pit
For Irish it also important how to bring about fair solutions for humans that the British commercial court system were never designed to supply these solutions. We Irish in Ireland would strive for replacing the system where humans are involved with proven historical solutions that worked for Irish .
The British freemen would probably strive to find ways to modify the British legal system so their strategies would be totally different to ours and arresting the Judge could be something that makes sense for them.
However the internet allows some Irish to think that British solutions are the way forward in Eire and as a result some Irish might fall for the import a British serpant slayer to do the job in Eire.
The recent example shows how that wont work. If the irish person had contacted the Irish Freeman www.tnsradio.ning.com they would have been very able to predict that that strategy educating the judge on the law would be a near certianty not to work Worse he would be enlightened to it ran serious risks to incurr to make things much worse. In fact that Irish guy got off lightly the judge must have been mildly amused somewhat by this deviation from the routine or he could have been toast.
So for us the fine details of this treaty how to spell it etc isn't our business we leave that to those that ply that trade called barristers lawyers solicitors . For us these people employed in commercial courts are servants to the serpents who stand around the serpents pits offering reductions in how many body parts the serpent will eat from us in return for some suitable fees. Fine detail in laws treaties and so forth make them pots of money. However for us freemen detail of law its a distraction and we would rather find ways to pass around this serpents pit placed in our path . Often its the fine details the serpent helpers throw to us lure us into the pit so they can extract something for us while we lose body parts .:eek:
So for us British law is up there with volcano s to be honest in terms of its relevance to the over all life of freemen who mostly just want to wander the the place having a good time within sensible limits such as would be found from ancient Irish laws

Derry

Paulw

derry wrote: »

we dont need or want to get hung up on the fine details of the system .

Fine details, like how things work in reality?

What about details like if you borrow money to buy a property, you must pay it back? Or is it the banks fault that you made the request to borrow money?

The more of this freeman rubbish I read, the more it seems like people want to use it so that they take no personal responsibility for their lives. It's always someone else's fault.

derry

Paulw wrote: »

Fine details, like how things work in reality?

What about details like if you borrow money to buy a property, you must pay it back? Or is it the banks fault that you made the request to borrow money?

The more of this freeman rubbish I read, the more it seems like people want to use it so that they take no personal responsibility for their lives. It's always someone else's fault.

Ok you want to go into that sector property and loans there off

First is Mortgage in Latin means death grip

Lets start with the banks in the USA who had a great idea to boost property sales into infinity. They noticed a small quirk in property loans. A very small group of loans called sub prime loans had a very good return on investments and a low default rate. Basically sub prime loans up to that time was where maybe some small local entrepreneur with maybe a small corner shops needed credit to buy property
Often these guys had no long track record needed but would agree to pay higher than normal interest rates. Local bank managers usually using their experience for backing winners extended these high risk sub prime loans and the returns were very good on a small scale.
The head office decided that they would wave their magic wands and ramp up sub prime on steroids for all property loans
They would dispense with any credit or income checks and loan out whatever amount the costumer requested.(Happy days)
Head office knowing full well that most of these loans would go belly up within a few years packaged these sub prime loans into triple A loans and sold the packages as triple a loans. Now toxic loans were mixed into good loans
The vast amounts of cash going into the property markets made house prices rise exponentially. However banks in the USA still had one issue to overcome and that was the requirement for a independent agent to go verify if a property was worth the selling price.
The solution was simple if a agent returned a negative reply he was never chosen again from the panel of independent property value agents. The independent agents to feed themselves then eventually became whores who would agree that some shack was worth millions .
As the banks gave out wads of cash into this toxic loan scheme the directors paid themselves big bonuses for loans lent out so even more loans were lent out as fast as possible.
Well it blew up and the victims of these loans its estimated that people sold houses for three times more than thier real value in this fraud
Its been calculated the independent agents lack of truth allowed the banks to defrauded the USA peoples who invested in property of $1 trillion dollars in over valued property.
At least the victims in the USA can hand back the keys and not still have the debt hanging onto them

The same scam in a more complex way was done in Ireland but the victims are stuck with the debts unless they do several things

(No I don't have time in one short reply to explain the intricacies of this Irish home grown property scam which is still ongoing and allows the property dealers and Banks using NAMA to protect them
Worse NAMA is immune to FOI requests so you will never get the truth how the scam continues . As far as I concerned all banks in Eire are the same category as Anglo in their actions and are also Zombie banks in terms of any use they are to the economy
All Irish banks should all be shut down scrapped and burned at the stake . The Irish banks all of them knew the scam they were in and knew when and how it would blow up and knew it would cause all these problems but they still went and did it. Worse some like BOI are not even Irish they are really British banks)

One option is to continue to pay the mortgage as agreed and hope in a few decades the prices will go back up.That doesn't take into account the new Irish economy will become more like the communist French model where house taxes will eat up any future profits. House Property tax is €100 euros this year and the average three bed in Dublin in 2020 will be more like €10K a year in present money (or probably as much as €30k in the future money if inflation stays at this present rate).
Yeah if you bought at the peak 2006 not only were you raped stupid and sodomized but now the gombeen men from government .Inc will line up to gang rape you well into 2020 and beyond while the banks are still feeding off your juices

One possibly it seems is to exit the country for five years avoid the correspondence about this affair until the debt is written off

The other possibility that seems to exist is to reduce the previous monthly payment figures to manageable amounts even if it as low or less than 10% of the agreed monthly payment prices.
OK your terms will go to 50 to 100 years but beats being ejected onto the streets and still having to pay the mortgage(This requires you to tell the banks how it will work and info on freeman sites can tell you how you might achieve this new contract in your mortgage)

The other possibility that might also seem to exist is to ask the Bank to document and verify the obligation.
Often now because the loan is part of some complex puzzle of international property mortgage sales packages that isn't possible.
Often as the bank is now merely a collection agent for the mortgage there interest to pursue the issue is often close to nil and the case gets filed in the forget about filing cabinet


Unfortunately some victims cant see the light that colored pieces of paper are not worth dieing for and take the worst option and I have attended some of these funerals

There may exist other options but those are some of the ones that more peoples have chosen recently

In fact groups like www.tnsradio.ning.com figure that some people who saw their info on how maybe not to pay the mortgage and maybe not lose the home have come back from the brink of doing something really stupid like leaving these shores or worse


Now if you got scammed to pay back for some product like say life long club membership with life long payments to a local pool and then they emptied the pool forever what position would you adopt.

So easy to judge other peoples actions when you don't know all the real and extenuating facts
Yeah my Dad could say bugger them in my time we paid back our debt. However in his time the banks hadn't become a total International Mafia with mega loan sharks deals for the unlucky winners

(no I personnly dont have a Mortgage with any banks here or elsewhere but for me I don't back any of these Irish scum bag banks who continue to rob us stupid. Even my accounts are close to zero I owe nothing and own close to nothing they keep telling me that as part of the Eire sovereign dept I owe some $500,000.

@ Paulw be my guest go pay back this $500,000 on top of your other payments your that kinda guy that thinks we should all pay our debts

I recall signing no such contract they can go swing for it if they think I will pay these taxes to pay back this fake dept they are trying to stiff me and everybody in Ireland with .
If the International lender feel they are owed this money they should go demand it from the guys who signed the debts like Cowen and Enja and Bertie baby( No Bertie baby signing in pensil doesn't cancel the dept to you) )

Derry

seamus

derry wrote: »

First is Mortgage in Latin means death grip

Two things always pique my curiosity about freeman stuff:

1. Why they think the latin meaning of a word has any bearing whatsoever on its legal basis.
2. Why they consistently get the latin wrong.

Mortgage comes from mortus gage, or "dead pledge". The commonly accepted meaning of this, and particularly the "dead" bit, tends towards "dead" referring to "complete" rather than "no longer living". That is, if the mortgagee fails to pay their pledge, the land will be taken from them "as if it were dead to them". If they complete the pledge, the pledge is now "dead" and the land belongs to them.

If you wished, you could also interpret it in a number of ways, such as "pledge of the dead", that is, a loan provided on the basis of security (such as land) that passes to the lender when the borrower dies.

But it in no way means "death grip", even if the latin root of the word had any bearing whatsoever on law.

derry

Dead, death, deader than a hammer, and other forms of the verb noun to die is splitting hairs

A contract with death built into isn't the kinda contract I want to be part of

Derry

Robbo

derry wrote: »

Dead, death, deader than a hammer, and other forms of the verb noun to die is splitting hairs

A contract with death built into isn't the kinda contract I want to be part of

Derry

No life insurance for you then?

chopser

derry wrote: »

Dead, death, deader than a hammer, and other forms of the verb noun to die is splitting hairs

A contract with death built into isn't the kinda contract I want to be part of

Derry

Then don't enter such a contract. That is everyones choice.

But afterthey enter such a contract with their eyes wide open why do freeman believers then choose to believe the law should not apply to them.

Has anyone ever used freeman arguments for something worthwhile , like human rights abuses?
No it is always to get out of a fine or some traffic offence or some petty argument.

ResearchWill

derry wrote: »

Dead, death, deader than a hammer, and other forms of the verb noun to die is splitting hairs

A contract with death built into isn't the kinda contract I want to be part of

Derry

So no petite mort for you then.

Offy

Why are all you legal people getting so worked up about this freeman stuff? Why does it get so many replies?

source

Offy wrote: »

Why are all you legal people getting so worked up about this freeman stuff? Why does it get so many replies?

Because it influences some people to go out and try it in courts, which only gets them in more bother.

mcmoustache

The reasons are twofold, I think.

This stuff is so stupid, so irrational and so morally objectionable that it's a topic that it's hard to resist debunking and/or mocking it.

and

This stuff is spreading and desperate people are believing in this freeman nonsense. As a result, they're getting in big trouble when they try it in court. People are being taken in by it and going to jail when they could be getting off with a fine by getting legal advice from a proper solicitor. Exlpaining that this stuff is bullsh*t is a moral duty.

Disclaimer: I'm not in the legal profession or anything and my views might not reflect those of the legal people here.

johnnyskeleton

Offy wrote: »

Why are all you legal people getting so worked up about this freeman stuff? Why does it get so many replies?

no one is getting worked up we want to see if there is any merit to it or if it's all nonsense.

mcmoustache

Oh, and I'd just like to emphasise the following in case it wasn't clear enough in my post:

This freeman stuff is really, really stupid. It's completely retarded. It's so ridiculously dumb that Paris Hilton doesn't even believe it. My dog just barked incredulously at me when I explained it to him and his knowledge of the legal system isn't great.

Freeman (not Gordon) == stupid.

Tayla

Paulw wrote: »

The more of this freeman rubbish I read, the more it seems like people want to use it so that they take no personal responsibility for their lives. It's always someone else's fault.

Well if it works for the rich and the banks......................

Offy

One only has to look at the kind of people that use it in court to know theres no merit in it but why dont the MODS just move this post to CT? Does it have any real connection to the law?

MagicSean

Offy wrote: »

One only has to look at the kind of people that use it in court to know theres no merit in it but why dont the MODS just move this post to CT? Does it have any real connection to the law?

It doesn't even have a connection to reality

Ms Minnie Mouse

Stupid question going back several posts (sorry, find this absolutely fascinating), can someone please explain to me how Bank of Ireland are a British bank?

Also, why these 'freemen' are so hung up on mis-translating Latin, the law (be it common, Brehon or whatever else they decide to bastardise) and getting their facts straight? An example - on a number of occasions I've seen comments relating to a contract being unable to exist without a signature - well, back when the Brehon Law was 'the thing' - the majority of contracts - which were in their own right enforceable - were verbal. So where do these ill thought-out arguments come from? I have yet to see a well thought out argument from a member of this 'movement' giving citations, facts and most of all, using correct grammar, punctuation and spelling!

This could be, in part, why people are so quick to shoot it down. So there you go - a challenge.

Di0genes

Offy wrote: »

One only has to look at the kind of people that use it in court to know theres no merit in it but why dont the MODS just move this post to CT? Does it have any real connection to the law?

There is a thread in CT. However sane people's tolerance to Freeman can only go so far before one must say "shut up you're stupid and annoying".

The idea that traffic offences or mortgages are annoying things than can be avoided with the correct terminology.

Incidentally has anyone heard of the "turning of sovereign seal" apparently if this self appointed moron with delusions of grandeur didn't engage in this self styled ritual the entire state would fall apart.

Idiocy.

http://wethepeopleireland.ning.com/forum/topics/the-harp-the-sovereign-seal

Offy

Di0genes wrote: »

There is a thread in CT. However sane people's tolerance to Freeman can only go so far before one must say "shut up you're stupid and annoying".

The idea that traffic offences or mortgages are annoying things than can be avoided with the correct terminology.

Incidentally has anyone heard of the "turning of sovereign seal" apparently if this self appointed moron with delusions of grandeur didn't engage in this self styled ritual the entire state would fall apart.

Idiocy.

http://wethepeopleireland.ning.com/forum/topics/the-harp-the-sovereign-seal

I tried to read it but tbh it was like reading Homer's 'The Odyssey', it belongs in a different age. I've seen one case of a young man in court for growing cannabis, this chap wasnt even sure of his own name. See here. Surly this is grounds to have the defendant committed to a mental institution? I mean if someone isnt sure of their own name how can they be sane?

FreudianSlippers

Offy wrote: »

Why are all you legal people getting so worked up about this freeman stuff? Why does it get so many replies?

Pseudo law is dangerous. If people out there believe that there are loopholes they will try to use them. The only reason this thread is open and ongoing is that I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears; people will see this and we all win.

Offy

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Pseudo law is dangerous. If people out there believe that there are loopholes they will try to use them. The only reason this thread is open and ongoing is that I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears; people will see this and we all win.

Lets hope so but also keep in mind not everyone can think for themselves, some people will always grasp at straws especially when in a bad situation.

derry

Reading the last few replies there is some idea that freemen live in some sort of dreamland and not in realty for the Legal system that others claim is in in front of them.
For some people in life that's the only mafia they encounter in their whole life so this discussion about the legal system and freemen has nothing to with their life so they might think serpent helpers and freemen are both nuts

Well the realty is there many systems out there .There is the local thug mafia that often control housing estates which demand cash for some services rendered or the petrol bomb comes through the window even you don´t want these services

Then there is some other guys in customs that say your car that is ion the public ways hasn't got some colored piece of paper on the windscreen that some Mafia called Government.Inc demands you pay annually.

Then there is another group of mafia out there called Co.Council.LTD who put camera around glass bottle collection bins and if some scrap of paper falls of the bottles onto the ground they send demands for over 100 pieces of metal called Euros for those pieces of paper they now rename as litter.

Between The Mafia like RTE demanding a license to look at their colored electronic brain washing electrons and the millions of other incorporated mafias in Ireland the joe soap born into this has two choices accept his servitude to slavery position or decide who the hell are these often self appointed baboons to be demanding these things.

A small amount of research reveals that the legal system is just another corporation that has been imposed on the people by another corporation called Government.Inc and this franchise to collect fines is meant for the other corporations and not the non corporation eg the peoples but people end up there so what went wrong ?

So another bit of research shows that Ancient tribal was laws for the peoples and was a reactive legal system they did not go around looking to invent rules and laws unless there was some serious need to.
The legal system did not pay people so no incentive to find problems

Then along came the British law which was the opposite it was a stick it in your face system.
They employ peoples to go around inventing new laws and demanding tax collections for things like two windows on your mud hut.
Failure to pay this annual tax on your extra window would incur notices and fines and even prison or loss of the mud house

Then some Irish rose up and things nearly were sorted to go back to Irish laws until the British pulled a fast one.
The treaties allowed the Ireland.Inc to become a subsidiary Inc from the commonwealth that BUT still had to agree to keep British Laws

EG Ireland .Inc got about the same independence as a dog gets when the chain lead is extended a few extra feet the dog is still chained up.
Suitable gombeen men were put in to run this British Legal system in Ireland.Inc

The Freemen now see the massive fraud that was done and as good Irish freedom oriented peoples look to see what solutions exist to see how to throw of this Yoke of tyranny that allows the UK crown to continue to rule Eire

In your face evidence of the Gombeen men and women lining up to bow before the bitch in Dublin who was here to get the census on how many serfs were on her farm in Eire.

No expect more people to see the reality where do these guys wearing wigs get this power to take their houses farms children and imprison them often for minor infractions like lack of suitable pieces of colored paper for things like tax which then goes to feed mafias like Offshore and Onshore Bankters

No for these gombeen men employed as servants to the serpents they see that getting easy prey and easy picking could vanish once real systems like Tribal laws were to come back .
Why they risk to even become redundant so they howl the loudest "Freemen cant see realty that they need us to reduce the body parts the serpents will chew off them."
The freemens logic is why tangle with serpents and their helpers if the pits are well signposted and there are big Freemen signs saying this way to ignore the serpents pits .

No Freemen see the realty that the British legal system is not made to be fair or supply justice .
It is made to steal everything it can from everybody it possibly can using costumes for the system to signify who is the top of the piles of mafias they control.
Just look the names and terms used
devils = apprentice serpant helper and spelling for casting spells and Magistrate magic of the state .


The only confusion out there is the many of new freemen might think going into the serpents pits called the courts might solve the problem.

That´s to be expected as the serpents have set up the hall of mirrors with justice this way and get your day in court tell them straight how it should be sign at the entrance to serpents pits.

Any study of the serpents pits shows they can change the goal posts to where they want .
They can change the court to be under local Bye laws or Admiralty rule or cannon law or run all of them at the same time concurrently so that the victims there can even become classed as salvage .then salvage needs storing in a salvage warehouse called a prison. The British legal system has nothing to with supplying justice .

Freemen in Ireland may not be able to know why they know the system isn't fair but they know it isn't
There exist many internet sites out there that encourage wanna be serpent slayers to follow some formula to win in the battle against the serpents
Other freemen sites say the planet is full of serpents in pits and the best methods is to ignore them and here are some formulas for getting out of any pits if you fall into them.
These formulas often have nothing to do with using legal logic so they are strategies for getting out of the pits ASAP with all your body parts intact .
Also Don't fall for the serpents sucker you in with good justice this way ploy that casino is rigged worse than a three card trick act .

There exists other internet freemen sites with other strategies but that's to big a field to go into today

So simply put for serpent helpers saying that freemen are nuts is like Publicans thinking teetotalers are nuts he cant sell them his snake poison alcohol



Derry

derry

Di0genes wrote: »

Incidentally has anyone heard of the "turning of sovereign seal" apparently if this self appointed moron with delusions of grandeur didn't engage in this self styled ritual the entire state would fall apart.

Idiocy.

http://wethepeopleireland.ning.com/forum/topics/the-harp-the-sovereign-seal

Well I cant say I am an expert on that information as its another subject really.
But in a nutshell that site explains how the coup de etate by the British was done to ensure their gombeen men got to keep Eire under the British legal system.
For the British system they figured they could let this this new upstart ireland.Inc have a bit of slack make its own company logo the tri color and sing its own company jangle the anthem .
Once the new subsidiary agreed to keep the British legal system it was effectively still part of BritishEmpire.Inc

The original revolutionaries from 1916 had made the seal of office that had made the first Irish government.

This seal of office was a problem for the British as that type of solution would create a totally independent Ireland.

With some suitable gerrymandering from the British Crown over time the new intake into the Irish Parliament were convinced the British seal of office was the correct seal to use


This now means the present bunch we voted in are working under the British crowns seals of office and not the Irish seals of office

The evidence is clear when you look the Queen bitches visit to Eire .
Its required under the crown rules for the crown to visit the region where the serfs live every 100 years and collect the census or risk to lose dominion over that territory

A few bits of arm twisting and the gombeen men and women fell down in their knees to facilitate this issue and the rest is history they grew brown nose to beat the band.
Even some of the grooms of the stool showed up like Sir Rugger Bugger to grovel in this treasonous in your face serfs get used to your crowns visits when we buy up the gaff after we destroy your economy with gombeen men
Look our loyal serf like our good Sir Rugger Bugger who made the Eircon scam we scammed Irish grannies for mega bucks and we ant finished yet ripping your Island apart .
This time there will even be even Irish serfs flatulence taxes with meters attached to the rear ends along with window taxes as part of the global warming con job tax

Think of it like this there is country like France with the Vichy government who claim to control that section of France .Then there is the free french army outside France who adhere to the old republic.
Lets say the Germans stayed in France a hundred years .The new young French then might say look those nutters free french army outside France saying the Vichy government is the real thing .Why I lived all my life with The Vichy government and it is wonderball vorts spung tecknique.

Free French army" Idiocy. " :pac:

Maybe good idea to look how they tarred and feathered supporters of the Vichy government to know where supporting the wrong regime might get you

Derry

ANSI

derry wrote: »

Reading the last few replies there is some idea that freemen live in some sort of dreamland and not in realty for the Legal system that others claim is in in front of them.

they do

johnnyskeleton

Offy wrote: »

I tried to read it but tbh it was like reading Homer's 'The Odyssey', it belongs in a different age. I've seen one case of a young man in court for growing cannabis, this chap wasnt even sure of his own name. See here. Surly this is grounds to have the defendant committed to a mental institution? I mean if someone isnt sure of their own name how can they be sane?

Its hearsay I suppose. The only reason we know our names is because we hear people outside court saying it to us.

derry

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

Pseudo law is dangerous. If people out there believe that there are loopholes they will try to use them. The only reason this thread is open and ongoing is that I believe the more the freemen say, the more apparently ridiculous it appears; people will see this and we all win.

Well at least you admit your agenda is with a specific direction and nail your colors to that mast

Somehow judging from the world wide resurgence of interest in Non British legal systems and a return to tribal laws I suspect your agenda has a limited life span
It might take a bit of time but I suspect that one day not so long from now the Irish will rise up and throw out the British legal system possibly in its entirety
If some of the British Legal system remains I think the rump will be exclusively for Corporation laws between corporations.
I figure that many in the Irish legal system see that coming down the track and by entertaining some freeman esprit they can somehow steer it and do damage limitation exersize.
Maybe the Irish Legal systems DONS figure if they only pull back the half of the curtain on the yellow brick road that those shiny levers of power for the peoples to pull at will keep them entertained enough so they don't see the other side of the curtain hiding the other more important levers.
I wouldn't put money on that strategy . I figure being a member of the BAR will allow the Irish legal unemployed serpent helpers find work in the mother country who invented this legal system the UK.
Failing that retraining as tea boys for the Irish tribal elders who will be working for free to solve tribal legal issues might the be the next career move for ex serpent helpers
I figure it gonna be more like the fall of the eastern block wall one day everybody will reject the entire British legal system imposed on the Irish and it will cease to exist in Ireland as legal system.
Then the real government with the real seals of office will come into power and there will be a for sale sign or rent on the four courts .
Below these commercial signs will be
other warning signs" don't feed any stray starving serpents you see crawling out of their pits going down to local dole office to get one way tickets to some serpent friendly part of the world as they got well fed over 500 years and will bite any victims arms off if they can ":pac:

St Patrick serpent slayer Rules OK will be the tags on the walls of the derilect four courts

Derry

nuac

Derry

In your enumeration of Mafia groups you forgot the organisation that really runs this country - The Irish Countrywomens' Association - known as the Raffia Mafia.'

derry

Tayla wrote: »

Well if it works for the rich and the banks......................

Well actually if you look the ex minister for defense he showed people how they can use strategies in court similar to freeman logic
He used the famous line "I made a honest mistake "
This means he had turned the tables to the question and now they had to figure what was the honest part of the issue was and the mistake part of the issue and the two combined , and so the thread followed a new direction away from the question asked.

He knew as he is trained serpent helper that the courts are not there to make justice
If you know how to find the right words you can stir the mud and get away with a lot.

So for freemen strategy we would say legitimately if asked in court did you sign such and such say "yes but I made a honest mistake " .You cant be jailed for honesty logic :pac:

Then the shinners used one of the freeman type strategies.
Freeman strategy when all else fails and the case is finished and the sentencing comes there is one last exit possibility.

In this case the Shinners had thrown paint over some blob who wasn't happy about the new color scheme.
The judge said to the Sien Fein person that your guilty and the penalty is whatever it was
This is actually a offer of contract and the judge will always pause for three seconds.
In these three seconds you can do three things accept this offer or reject it or alter it .
If you say nothing for three seconds then the contract is now a done deed
For freemen they could reply I do not consent to any penalty in time in prison or fines
In the case of the Shinner she said no I do not consent to this penalty but I will accept the penalty of putting cash in the poor box.
She did a counter offer contract for the judge

The judge can come back with another offer or accept the the new contract
This is all to with the fact that the legal system is based on " consent "
If you don't consent there is a big "consent "issue for the contract

Think of it like a last chance get out of jail card and another ladder out of the serpents pit

Forget the rights and wrong of the case spin it for where the hell is the exit from this serpent pit is the name of the game for a freeman.

However for a freeman waiting to reach this point in the strategy is risking it a lot .

For a lot of freemen info this would be waste of time for them for the courts and for all concerned to reach that point when there were many exits many to take long before this point
Many of the best ones are never ever go do battle in the pits of the serpents as there are many other avoid the serpent pits cards out there if you know where to look for them


However the nature of humans they can be attracted to the gladiator nature of the serpent pit which is exactly what the serpents helpers will use
They will say see the freemen did this in the court bla bla
However they don't want to hear about the freemen who used the courts filters to avoid falling into the pit
There is no money in it for the serpents helpers to hear 99.9% of freemen avoided this pointless gladitor battle with the serpent

Show us proof of court case X Y Z where the freemen won they cry

Find another victim to enter the arena is the real cry they make as they try to cash in on this
The richer types however have a tendency to prefer to go the distance for the dare effect as often their serpent helpers have fed the serpents enough victims earlier on .

Two high profile working examples in your face , So all this saying the Freemen are on the wrong track now looks to be serpent poop :pac:

Derry

Finnbar01

Another thing I've noticed about freemen is that they like to go on a bit. If you ever had the pleasure of watching one of their utube videos, well something that could be said in about a minute takes them like 10 minutes to say it.

batistuta9

Finnbar01 wrote: »

Another thing I've noticed about freemen is that they like to go on a bit. If you ever had the pleasure of watching one of their utube videos, well something that could be said in about a minute takes them like 10 minutes to say it.

I think the award for the most characters in the fewest posts will go to derry

Di0genes

derry wrote:

This seal of office was a problem for the British as that type of solution would create a totally independent Ireland.

No a violent war of independence, a peace treaty, thirty years of political horsetrading and our consitution created a totally independent Ireland.

Your bull**** ignores the lives given over to achieve our independence. It demonstrates a clear and profound ignorance of both history and politics.

johnnyskeleton

derry wrote: »

Reading the last few replies there is some idea that freemen live in some sort of dreamland and not in realty for the Legal system that others claim is in in front of them.

Well can you point to any source for this theory other than other fremen rants? For example, where you claim that the Courts are actually a company, can you show me a company search, their articles of association or other evidence of it? Similarly, I don't see how a large entity such as the United States of America could become bankrupt and change its name every seven years without at least notifying somebody. You'd think that sort of stuff would be on wikipedia, wouldn't you?

The point is this - if you can point to actual real world events that are recorded by independent sources then you might have a realistic theory. If you rely on mere assertion then yes it is dreamland stuff.

Now, if you'll excuse me, a dragon and a manticore are debating the best method of matter exceeding the speed of light (since we obviously know without proof that such is readily possible) and I want to listen in.

Between The Mafia like RTE demanding a license to look at their colored electronic brain washing electrons and the millions of other incorporated mafias in Ireland the joe soap born into this has two choices accept his servitude to slavery position or decide who the hell are these often self appointed baboons to be demanding these things.

And in a democracy, if he doesn't believe in paying a licence fee he is entitled to run for government and change the law so that we don't have to pay for a licence fee.

A small amount of research reveals that the legal system is just another corporation that has been imposed on the people by another corporation called Government.Inc and this franchise to collect fines is meant for the other corporations and not the non corporation eg the peoples but people end up there so what went wrong ?

Deadly, please show me your research. I assume this research involves actually looking at evidence as opposed to making stuff up when you're on the toilet?

So another bit of research shows that Ancient tribal was laws for the peoples and was a reactive legal system they did not go around looking to invent rules and laws unless there was some serious need to.
The legal system did not pay people so no incentive to find problems

Interesting. But most of our laws relate to pressing social needs. For example, speed limits are there to ensure that people don't drive so fast that they are a danger to other people and themselves. Taxes are there to pay for government services etc.

Then along came the British law which was the opposite it was a stick it in your face system.

Just taking this point alone, you accept that this "British law" that you speak of is actually a valid system, in that it is entitled to create and enforce laws? Please answer this question with a simple yes or no. Because if yes then Fremen philosophy falls down and "British law" is perfectly entitled to impose its rules on people. If no, how is it that your tribal systems are valid systems but the "British law" system is not? From a philosophical point of view, there is either a power to set up a state and create and enforce laws or else there is not.

They employ peoples to go around inventing new laws and demanding tax collections for things like two windows on your mud hut.
Failure to pay this annual tax on your extra window would incur notices and fines and even prison or loss of the mud house

There is no such tax in Ireland. Do you accept that states are entitled to collect taxes? If not, then how do they finance public expenditure?

Then some Irish rose up and things nearly were sorted to go back to Irish laws until the British pulled a fast one.
The treaties allowed the Ireland.Inc to become a subsidiary Inc from the commonwealth that BUT still had to agree to keep British Laws

Where in the treaty does it say that?

No Freemen see the realty that the British legal system is not made to be fair or supply justice .

What specifically is unfair or lacking in justice in it? People pay taxes that go to assist those less fortunate and to pay for service. There is justice in that. The criminal courts laws to prevent people hurting each other. What's wrong with that?

They can change the court to be under local Bye laws or Admiralty rule or cannon law or run all of them at the same time concurrently so that the victims there can even become classed as salvage .then salvage needs storing in a salvage warehouse called a prison. The British legal system has nothing to with supplying justice .

Really, where are you getting this from?

Freemen in Ireland may not be able to know why they know the system isn't fair but they know it isn't

So you are now admitting that it is all nonsense i.e. you can't prove that it isn't fair but you nevertheless "know" it?

johnnyskeleton

derry wrote: »

It might take a bit of time but I suspect that one day not so long from now the Irish will rise up and throw out the British legal system possibly in its entirety

Stop calling it the British legal system. It is different. We have a written constitution that the people of Ireland approved in 1937 that gave us a radically different system of laws to the British. However, the people did accept by a majority that we should retain some similarities to the system that had previously existed (and which is simliar to legal systems all across the world). Things like rights of access to the Courts, trial in due course of law, individual liberty and free speech etc.

derry wrote: »

If some of the British Legal system remains I think the rump will be exclusively for Corporation laws between corporations.

This corporations thing is complete nonsense. I'm sorry but it is. You are a person. You are not a corporation. The State is entitled to pass laws that affect people. That's democracy. We the people at large have the right to set the laws and occasionally punish those individual members who step out of line, much like your Tribal justice system but on a grander scale.

derry wrote: »

I figure that many in the Irish legal system see that coming down the track and by entertaining some freeman esprit they can somehow steer it and do damage limitation exersize.

No they don't. They lock fremen up for wasting court time.

I figure it gonna be more like the fall of the eastern block wall one day everybody will reject the entire British legal system imposed on the Irish and it will cease to exist in Ireland as legal system.

And replace it with what? Anarchy?

derry wrote: »

In this case the Shinners had thrown paint over some blob who wasn't happy about the new color scheme.
The judge said to the Sien Fein person that your guilty and the penalty is whatever it was
This is actually a offer of contract and the judge will always pause for three seconds.
In these three seconds you can do three things accept this offer or reject it or alter it .
If you say nothing for three seconds then the contract is now a done deed
For freemen they could reply I do not consent to any penalty in time in prison or fines
In the case of the Shinner she said no I do not consent to this penalty but I will accept the penalty of putting cash in the poor box.
She did a counter offer contract for the judge

Do you have a report of this happening? Why three seconds? Why not two? Why not five? A contract cannot ordinarily be agreed to by silence so you are wrong there.

The poor box is a part of our current legal system and is not a creation of fremen codology as you seem to suggest. But if she were really free to accept reject or counter offer, why did she counter offer? Why not simply reject the offer and say "no thanks, I want to keep my money."

While we are on the subject, do fremen even believe in money? After all, it is a creation of the State and is really just a way of them keeping track of our spending habits via the computer chips in our brains, as everyone knows so I don't need to prove.

derry wrote: »

Show us proof of court case X Y Z where the freemen won they cry

Doesn't need to be a court case, can be proof that they didn't go to court. I have read that Blank of Ireland book and, contrary to what the author says it does, they did not accept his arguments.

derry wrote: »

Two high profile working examples in your face , So all this saying the Freemen are on the wrong track now looks to be serpent poop :pac:

Derry

Both examples are of normal workings of our legal system. Neither is an example of someone going "I don't stand under you judge and I do not consent" and then getting away with a criminal charge. In fact, there are examples of people saying such things and ending up in jail.

Offy

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

No they don't. They lock fremen up for wasting court time.

Firstly I am NOT defending Derry but maybe you should read your post and edit it. If you look at the link I provided the young man was NOT locked up, he got away with a measly €150 fine. This chaps family have been dealing drugs for over 20 years and thats the best the judge could do? They have destroyed more people's lives than either you or I can imagine. Shortly after the court case he went into the dole office and signed on. So much for all his freeman nonsence. Thats what I expect from these freemen. On another occasion, see here, he also escaped Jail. I wish I could believe you comment but Im afraid what Ive seen indicates differently.

johnnyskeleton

Offy wrote: »

Firstly I am NOT defending Derry but maybe you should read your post and edit it. If you look at the link I provided the young man was NOT locked up, he got away with a measly €150 fine. This chaps family have been dealing drugs for over 20 years and thats the best the judge could do? They have destroyed more people's lives than either you or I can imagine. Shortly after the court case he went into the dole office and signed on. So much for all his freeman nonsence. Thats what I expect from these freemen. On another occasion, see here, he also escaped Jail. I wish I could believe you comment but Im afraid what Ive seen indicates differently.

I wasn't referring to your link, but to the people who run this type of argument generally. It can equally be inferred that they don't go to jail because often their involvement with the law relates to a trivial road traffic matter or other minor offence.