Late Track season Results

walshb

myflipflops wrote: »

Completely agree, he is one of my favorite athletes. A truly clean sprinter and a nice guy.

<mod edit>This thread is not for speculation regarding cheating<mod edit>

BTW, watching this on Chann 4 is just not near as good as on the beeb. Pity they aren't covering it

Larry Brent

walshb wrote: »

The previous rule was even worse, as you mention. I don't know what to think now. The original rule was the best, but I gues for time delays and all that it wasn't good.

Maybe they could bring in something like you're allowed 1 a season. Or 3 in your career.

RoyMcC

myflipflops wrote: »

Watching Eurosport stream which gets the local directors coverage. They are showing 3rd round of the discus and crowd shots and f*ck all of the 10k. Universal sports coverage (where most americans will be watching) showing the same crap. Very frustrating.

Yes, God forbid they show a bit of throwing for a change

myflipflops

walshb wrote: »

Truly clean? How would you know? And, at 35 and doing that? Alarm bells are ringing, much like when old Linford was winning and improving with age.

i should say, 'in my opinion completely clean'. I like the idea of a skinny guy with a beautiful running style winning medlas rather than the muscle bulging guys. His world champs gold came in the slowest time in decades i think. He has hadd a very consistant, believable career.

What Collins did today wasn't that big a shock in terms of athletic perfromance. He got a bronze running 10.08 (not even a seasons best i think) in a race where the top 4 runners in the world rankings were missing. Comparisons to Linford Christie winning the Olympics are pretty far fetched.

RoyMcC wrote: »

Yes, God forbid they show a bit of throwing for a change

No problem cutting to other action but it's round 3 of the competition and we don't need to see throwers walking into/out of the cage and then replays of fouls.

Let's face it, there is also a massively varying level of general interest in the different events with the mens 100 at the top. The womens discus is going to be pretty low down that list. The coverage was directed in a way that would put of any casual fan.

Woddle

<Mod note>There is to be absolutely no speculation regarding athletes cheating<Mod note>

Woddle

Didn't realise I was such a Mo Farrah fan till I found myself on my knees screaming ''NOOOoo'' at the TV, made the baby cry

RoyMcC

myflipflops wrote: »

No problem cutting to other action but it's round 3 of the competition and we don't need to see throwers walking into/out of the cage and then replays of fouls.

Let's face it, there is also a massively varying level of general interest in the different events with the mens 100 at the top. The womens discus is going to be pretty low down that list. The coverage was directed in a way that would put of any casual fan.

Have to take your word for the coverage. But tbh field events fans usually have to watch lap after lap of the settling-in stages of distance races with maybe a token shot of a winning throw. Of course no one will be interested in women's discus unless there's some effort to present and explain the event, the personalities, rules etc. Maybe the balance is being redressed.

Hope they show full and uncut coverage of the men's shot :cool:

Rjd2

walshb wrote: »

The previous rule was even worse, as you mention. I don't know what to think now. The original rule was the best, but I gues for time delays and all that it wasn't good.

Not sure if depriving the world of seeing the sports biggest draw in his glory is really worth it to save a few minutes.


Oh and

Last year another of Bolt's rivals, Tyson Gay — absent from today's race after getting injured before the US trials — had criticised the false-start rules, claiming: "If it happened [to Usain Bolt] at the Olympics or World Championships – without Usain Bolt the race is going to have an asterisk to the side. It just doesn't make sense. If it is not changed, it will hurt our sport."

Guardian

Tangle2

These things happen, such is the nature of sport. Isinbeyeva has no heighted in the past, Chambers and Joanne Cuddihy suffered the same fate. Bolt knew the rules and his concentration lapsed. He'll make ammends next time. Maybe its a refection of my age but I'd like to see a little less fooling around from him at the start - maybe this will focus him. I don't think he'll make that mistake again.

It was sporting of him to accept the decision and not protest- a measure of the man as a champion.

Pisco Sour

Just back from the stadium. The entire crowd gasped when Bolt was DQ'ed. It was quite remarkeable. It was the reason most of the 40,000 - 50,000 were in the stadium, the only athlete people cheered for when announced. A little funny when you think about it in that way!

Absolutely stupid of him though. All this talk about the false start rule being unfair, I can't agree with regards Bolt. This was a HUGE false start, almost as bad as Christine Ohuruogu. He jumped the gun. It wasn't unlucky, it was plain stupid, and he should know better. He's been there enough times. Also his antics, taking off his shirt was a bit ridiculous. Lots of people false start and you never see that sort of rubbish (except Jon Drummond in 2003).

Gutted for Joanne. Really am. She was running well and I thought she was going to finish top 12. Was talking to some auld geezer, about 80, dressed in athletics ireland gear. He was saying that Joanne's performance in false starting was a bit of a disgrace. I had to bite my lip big time!!!

Darya Klishina has gone way down in my books. Granted she performed dreadfully, and yes I suppose I shouldn't have asked her for a photo given the circumstances, but it's still no excuse for simply nodding her head at my request and walking on. Steve Hooker had similar disappointment yesterday, and yet was very polite and took 5 seconds out of his day to get a photograph with a fan. I'll be leaving a comment on her facebook fan page, before swiftly "unlikeing" myself from it!

velo.2010

Adverts are choking the atmosphere when watching these champs. Not as much studio chat on C4 as the BBC(was anything actually live on that channel) but then they don't have the time!

Strange no RTE coverage when they've gone to the trouble of showing European indoor and outdoor before. Maybe thats Irish athlete winning medal dependant. No Eurosport here and I'd prefer watching on TV than on the laptop so its C4 for now. Wonder how much Johnson is getting for this, probably half the C4 budget!

Lemaitre was disappointing in the final, still reckon he can take silver in the 200m. Great 10,000m.

Caprica

A very anti-climatic end to an a good days athletics. Bolt has no one to blame but himself. I agree with the rule, I wonder was he chasing after a really fast time and he was looking for a flying start. If not dq'ed he would have won at a canter. Was expecting more from Lemaitre, a medal was easily within his grasp. Well done to Kim Collins.

Did not think Mo was going to be caught in the 10k, he really went for it. Very impressive finishing speed by Jeilan. Looks a bit older that his 22 years. Was watching on Eurosport and as with yesterdays Womens 10k and marathon, the coverage was poor. I say I seen 7/8 mins of the race. In yesterdays marathon they missed the break, returned to it to see the 3 Kenyans on their own.

Really impressed with Hardee in the Decathlon, I thought it was Eatons to lose but Hardee really rose to the challenge. Good to see Sebrle still competing. Very dissappointing for Cuddihy, I was expecting another good run today, Sanya Richards had a poor run, thought she was rounding into form but will struggle to medal in the final.

Merrit looked very impressive in the 400 heats. Rudisha looks odds on for the 800, I was as impressed with Kaki in todays semi.

electrictrad

RoyMcC wrote: »

Hope they show full and uncut coverage of the men's shot :cool:

Heres hoping that they do, it'll be the most competitive event of the championships. . . realistically any of 5 athletes could win, Armstrong, Cantwell, Hoffa, Nelson, and Michnevich. . .all 5 in the unique position of their 2nd best throws not being good enough to have beaten the best throws of any of the other 4 this season - given that they all have 6 throws a competition, thats quite something - http://www.iaaf.org/statistics/toplists/inout=o/age=n/season=2011/sex=M/all=n/legal=A/disc=SP/detail.html

velo.2010 wrote: »

Lemaitre was disappointing in the final, still reckon he can take silver in the 200m.

If Lemaitre can't win a world 100m final without Bolt, Gay, or Powell, it'd be hard to feel as if he deserved it, to be fair. . .on the other hand, twould be good to see a European run Bolt close. . .and by run close, I really mean just finish 2nd, as Bolt in the 2 should be unstoppable. . .

G-Money

Why don't they just give false starters a warning and then if the same person false starts the 2nd time, boot them out?

Pherekydes

G-Money wrote: »

Why don't they just give false starters a warning and then if the same person false starts the 2nd time, boot them out?

That was the original rule, but some early rounds took ages to complete because you had lots of novices false starting.

G-Money

Pherekydes wrote: »

That was the original rule, but some early rounds took ages to complete because you had lots of novices false starting.

Got to be better than the current rule. Sure I saw some race earlier this year, I think it might have been the New York Diamond League and there was about 3 false starts in the final of the 100m.

I suspect they might change the rule after this. Can you imagine the same thing happening at the Olympics?

donothoponpop

G-Money wrote: »

Got to be better than the current rule. Sure I saw some race earlier this year, I think it might have been the New York Diamond League and there was about 3 false starts in the final of the 100m.

I suspect they might change the rule after this. Can you imagine the same thing happening at the Olympics?

Back when athletes were only disqualified on their 2nd false start, you had to endure the spectacle of several athletes "gamble" their first false start on beating the gun (and getting a 0.1sec reaction time). Heats would go on for ages, as eight runners preened, strutted, settled into the blocks, said a prayer, shuffled down slowly, stretched their legs, inched their fingers back behind the white line... false started, and began the whole spectacle again. Four or more false starts in a race was not unusual.

They changed things in 2003 so that the second runner to false start- regardless of who had false-started first- was disqualified. This sped things up, but it still meant runners were prepared to gamble on reaction times beating the gun, so this was ditched in 2010.

The current set-up works well, its only drawback is the appalling vista of the biggest draw in athletics falling victim to the no-false-start rule, which happened today. So they will change things again, before the Olympics.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/athletics/14700797.stm

wgtomblin

G-Money wrote: »

Got to be better than the current rule. Sure I saw some race earlier this year, I think it might have been the New York Diamond League and there was about 3 false starts in the final of the 100m.

I suspect they might change the rule after this. Can you imagine the same thing happening at the Olympics?

If they change the rule back to what it was, then we will be back to the situation of several false starts once again, and not all of them accidental. The problem with the original rule was that some athletes exploited it to try and unsettle other competitors.

The short-lived revised rule that allowed the field one false start didn't completely remove this issue.

The current rule is the fairest solution IMO, though I hate to see any athlete DQ'd because of it, whether it is Usain Bolt or anyone else.

donothoponpop

From the BBC link-

"The false-start rule that saw Usain Bolt disqualified from the World Championships 100m final will be discussed by the IAAF next Sunday.
Olympic and defending world champion Bolt was thrown out of the showpiece final after one false start in Daegu.
A spokesman for the world athletics governing body said the rule, which was introduced in 2010, "could be changed"."

Ato Bolton has been talking about this for some time now- he predicted that UB would false-start in a major semi- or final, and this would lead to the IAAF changing the rule.

I don't know what would be better to replace it with (or if they should). Intuitively I think an athlete should be allowed one false start in the Championship, to be carried from round to round. Those athletes who make the final, having jumped the gun in an earlier heat, will be "penalized" by having a slower reaction time in the final. However, that's not ideal either, and I get the feeling that if Bolt had been carrying a yellow card, and got the red in the final, they would tinker with the rules again. Hard cases make for bad laws, maybe the current system is fairest all round.

Hard Worker

04072511 wrote: »

Gutted for Joanne. Really am. She was running well and I thought she was going to finish top 12. Was talking to some auld geezer, about 80, dressed in athletics ireland gear. He was saying that Joanne's performance in false starting was a bit of a disgrace. I had to bite my lip big time!!!

Had you never met Harry before? He's not just any auld geezer

ecoli

Hard Worker wrote: »

Had you never met Harry before? He's not just any auld geezer

Fair play to Harry the man is a legend. Was chatting to him in Portugal at the World XC in the blazing heat and fully clad in the Ireland tracksuit man is braver that most of us:D

robinph

Tangle2 wrote: »

It was sporting of him to accept the decision and not protest- a measure of the man as a champion.

Totally agree with that. He knew it was him immediately and admitted it was him before the rest of them had even left their own blocks. No standing around waiting for the guy to come along with the red card and then looking surprised for a minute before being dragged off.

Of the false starts, ignoring the two in the womens marathon , the only one I feel sorry for is actually Chambers. Apart from the camera down the straight showing his feet move you'd not have spotted it was him without the computer telling us so. He still stayed in the blocks until the gun. But his feet moved so he was out, and he accepted it without too much fuss.

Bolt, Orhurugu, Cuddihy were all well out of the blocks before the gun and should have no complaints over the rule. Other than 400m runners really shouldn't be getting that close to triggering a false start

RoyMcC

At least at the sub-elite level, down as far as the youngest juvenile athletes, you can coach and drill them to know that they only go on the starter's Go!/Whistle/Gun. It's not difficult to understand this. Most athletes are now accepting that it's either that way or the highway.

Of course they'll now try to invent something that will keep an elite field intact. I'm not sure you can have it both ways. Maybe d'pop's hybrid solution works.

walshb

04072511 wrote: »

He's been there enough times. Also his antics, taking off his shirt was a bit ridiculous. Lots of people false start and you never see that sort of rubbish (except Jon Drummond in 2003).
!

That's a bit harsh. He showed frustration and anger, at himself, at the final of the worlds greatest race. He's only human. Of course he is going to show some emotion. It's not like he whinged and moaned. He knew it was him and reacted like he knew. The guy was gutted. He is a born competitor, showman and winner. How the hell was that reaction rubbish? What would you call normal under those circumstances?

BTW, I think they are stuck with this rule as the only option is to go back to the 2 false starts and you are out.
I know I said I despised the rule, but I guess it does apply to all equally. Swimming has the rule and it works.
You will always see some suffer, but that is the sport.

Pisco Sour

Hard Worker wrote: »

Had you never met Harry before? He's not just any auld geezer

First time. Bar the Cuddihy comment, the man seemed like a good chap for banter. We had a brief rant about how the sport is run in Ireland before parting company.

61 years in athletics. Been going to major championships all his life. Fair play to him.

Seemed like a decent lad. Just thought the Cuddihy comment was harsh is all. The auld geezer comment wasn't meant in a bad way

Regarding Bolt, this whole thing is ridiculous. When any normal athlete false starts, nobody complains. But when Bolt does, then all of a sudden everybody has to discuss the fairness/ unfairness of the rules, and talk about changing them. Why should Bolt be treated differently? He knows the rules. It's not like he twitched on the blocks, he bleedin had a reaction time of -0.1. He jumped the gun! The rules are the same for everyone. No man is bigger than the sport.

walshb wrote: »

That's a bit harsh. He showed frustration and anger, at himself, at the final of the worlds greatest race. He's only human. Of course he is going to show some emotion. It's not like he whinged and moaned. He knew it was him and reacted like he knew. The guy was gutted. He is a born competitor, showman and winner. How the hell was that reaction rubbish? What would you call normal under those circumstances?

Michael Johnson seems to agree with me anyway.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCRxEg7ZSQY

On a side note, C4 commentary is brutal to listen to!

Just having a glance through Paddy Power here and have seen some very generous odds. Irving Saladino at 6-1 in the Men's Long Jump. David Oliver at 11-2 in the Hurdles. Danielle Caruthers at 5-1 seems decent aswell. She's more likely to beat Pearson than Wells is I think. The bookies really are shocking at athletics!

ecoli

04072511 wrote: »

First time. Bar the Cuddihy comment, the man seemed like a good chap for banter. We had a brief rant about how the sport is run in Ireland before parting company.

61 years in athletics. Been going to major championships all his life. Fair play to him.

For those that dont know Harry he was two time all Ireland Marathon Champion in marathon in the sixties running 2.28

G-Money

I think the Chambers disqualification was harsh. I know he broke the rules by twitching so he should have been disqualified, but I think that rule is kind of unfair.

I'm not a sprinter and I never will be so I don't know how hard it is to stay completely still in the 'set' position but I imagine it can be difficult, especially if they are left hanging for a long amount of time.

They had no choice but to kick Bolt out yesterday. It was a blatant false start, and it wasn't even close to being borderline. It would have been unthinkable to let him take the blocks again purely because of who he is, while other athletes who train just as hard are red carded immediately.

The current system however doesn't completely remove all the false starts. As I mentioned, the NY Diamond League had several false starts in the final of the 100m, I think it was 3 false starts actually, so the current rule isn't flawless either. That race rapidly became a farce as the number of athletes dwindled down to something like 5 in the end which looked a bit stupid.

Perhaps it should only be a red card if you leave the blocks and no-one else has left them and no-one twitched to set you off. You'd imagine that would be easy enough to know if someone moved in the blocks as they kick people out for that already.

It's a tricky call no matter what way you look at it. You can say Johan Blake only won because Bolt wasn't there. That might be true, but it's not like Bolt was injured or sick. He was there and they all had the same equipment and Blake kept his nerve while Bolt went too soon. You can only beat who is there.

I have to admit when the false start happened, I began to wonder if all the showboating and everything that Bolt does at the start of the race is having a negative effect. Michael Johnson and Tyson Gay both said on Channel 4 that it was a lack of focus and concentration that led to the false start. Christine Ohuguru (sp) said the same of her own false start which was similar to Bolt's.

Pherekydes

G-Money wrote: »

The current system however doesn't completely remove all the false starts.

No system will completely remove all false starts. The system is there to cut down on the number of false starts, while making it fair and equitable for everyone.

walshb

G-Money wrote: »

I have to admit when the false start happened, I began to wonder if all the showboating and everything that Bolt does at the start of the race is having a negative effect. Michael Johnson and Tyson Gay both said on Channel 4 that it was a lack of focus and concentration that led to the false start. Christine Ohuguru (sp) said the same of her own false start which was similar to Bolt's.

He has been charismatic and a showman for several years now and it was never a problem. He made a mistake last night. Anyone can. Big false start or not, it can happen to any athlete. Sure, look at Joanne in the 400 m making a false start. That really should not happen. But, I guess the pressure and maybe nervous energy got to her. The British feamale athlete too in the 400metres. An experinced athlete she was.

Woddle

walshb wrote: »

He has been charismatic and a showman for several years now and it was never a problem. He mad a mistake last night. Anyone can. Big false start or not, it cabn happen to any athlete. Sure, look at Joanne in the 400 m making a false start. That really shopuld not happen. But, I guess the pressure and maybe nervous energy got to her.

Johnson this morning gave another possible reason for Bolts false start. He showed that Blakes left knee (next to Bolt) flinched and then Bolt false started.