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Your thoughts on pet cats roaming free
Comments
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"Ideally bales should be covered (top and sides) in fine-mesh netting to prevent bird and cat damage during storage. Spacers such as tyres should be used to keep the netting out from the bales. The site should be fenced off and steps taken to reduce the risk of rodents. Inspect the bales frequently and repair damage immediately."
Farmers Journal guide to making good quality Silage.
Don't get me started on the advice the FJ gives out. Come on over to the farming forum and see real farmers opinions on it!
I do however note use of the word 'Ideally'. Look around the country and tell me where you see bales fenced off like this, practically nowhere.
It's impractical and almost unworkable.
Ideally cats should not be allowed roam free.
Perhaps microchipping should be compulsory to aid traceability. Any damage done can be accounted for.0 -
I'm bowing out of this thread while I can.
I cannot for the life of me understand the oblivious, arrogant attitudes of some of the cat owners in this thread.
For the record, I am not against cats, or their being outside - I simply want to see them in under control while they are and, as such:
a.) My property is not being continually damaged.
b.) There will be no possibility that cat feces can come into contact with my toddler while he is playing in my back (enclosed) garden.
When I asked if cat owners think they should take responsibility for their pets, most (and I stress, not all!) stonewalled me for example:
Question: Owner responsibility? Answer: but what about kids?
Question: Owner responsibility? Answer: but what about birds?
Question: Damage to property? Answer: buy deterrants! (why should I have to spend money on this?)
Question: Damage to property? Answer: sure they usually defecate under bushes and the like! (as if this is better).
Sorry for labouring the point, but my point is that my issues were not addressed by the very people who are culpable for causing them!
I am not trolling or flaming here, and I hope the mods of this forum understand this.
I'm simply a home owner that's incredibly frustrated by the problems that this is causing (as I've documented).
However judging by what I've read here, and given entrenched attitudes of cat owners, these are problems that will probably continue long into the future.
Regards,
Druss.0 -
I remember reading a thread about a guy shooting pigeons with a slingshot and how cruel that was but it my opinion setting your cat outside is just the same - they kill wild life but the owners dont seem to mind.
Also cats poo everywhere, kids could be playing with it also how would you feel if i starting flinging my dog's poo in your garden?
Some cats have been known to attack small kids, imagine just letting a vicious dog out to prowl around attacking other animals and children? well there would be a witch hunt for the dogs owners.
Cats wandering should be dealt with the same way as other vermin0 -
I am a dog person and alway will be a dog person. I never like cats at all. Then one day I came across a small kitten abandoned at the side of the road. Thankfully I spotted the little furball before he met a car.
I took him home and my view of cats changed all together. Five years later Tiger is living with me and my two labradors. They are all great friends. Tiger is a very social cat, the neighbors kids love him. Cats are amazing animals that are really misunderstood. Before I found Tiger I did not like cat's now I have great respect for them.
Don't hate a cat... love them, they can teach you a thing or two...0 -
To my mind a pet should be contained on the owner's property, regardless of species.
It shouldn't matter how many wild animals defecate in my garden, how many animals that defecate in my garden I own, how many bacteria are naturally present in my garden, I have the right not to have someone elses pet defecate in my garden. It doesn't matter if they're wormed. It doesn't matter if cats bury their waste. It's not equivalent to noisy kids/loud music/idiots hooning around in supped up cars. While all of those are annoying, they're not in my garden. It's not the same as wild animals being in my garden, people deal with unwanted wild animals in lots of different ways, some don't mind and ignore them. Some people object to them and discourage them or treat them as vermin and set out traps, that is the unfortunate fate of them being wild.
If pet cats are allowed act wild then they will be treated as wild, and it's unfair to expect anyone to see a distinction. To let a pet cat go into someone elses property and then be upset if they get hurt whilst doing so is ridiculous. There literally is no other species of pet animal that owners expect it to be their right to go into someone elses property, pet rabbits aren't covered by any specific law but I can't imagine anyone having the attitude of 'ah sure what do you expect a rabbit to do' when found eating someone elses veggie patch.
I've posted before about my frustration with my neighbours cat crossing my garden and my dogs catching it, one of these days I'm not going to be at home to save it and then where will I be? Will I be labelled as the irresponsible person who's dogs killed someone elses pet? Will I be down as an evil cruel person who has savage dogs and didn't protect someone elses pet?
To expect people who object to someone elses pet being on their property to spend money on preventions/fencing etc is extremely unfair. I've spent thousands securing my property to contain my pet animals, money that was hard come by, why should I have to spend more money for someone elses irresponsibility? It's not like money isn't tight in most homes at the moment, and cat owners frequently will say that it's virtually impossible to prevent a cat coming into your garden. But you can prevent a cat from leaving it's owners property, plenty of cat owners on this forum have serured areas for their cat to be outside.
No pet animal has a nature that is condusive to living in a small area - birds, dogs, cats, rabbits and horses will roam an extensive area if left to their own devices but all other species are contained except cats. It's time cats were contained, it's time laws were updated to make cat owners responsible for their pet, but it's also time to protected and I can't understand how cat owners want don't this too. I simply don't understand the attitude of ' I know it's a risk to let them out cos they might get knocked down ' but then get really angry at the driver who does knock them down and kill them.0 -
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@ PlanetX
If I discover on my property an unneutered adult cat, can I assume it is in fact unowned? And not a beloved pet?0 -
@ PlanetX
If I discover on my property an unneutered adult cat, can I assume it is in fact unowned? And not a beloved pet?
How extremely bad mannered - dragging across threads. Doesn't that break some code of conduct.
I don't see the connection between the two. Most cat owners neuter their cats.
Why so aggressive? Maybe you need a cat to stroke...it's very calming.0 -
How extremely bad mannered - dragging across threads. Doesn't that break some code of conduct.
I don't see the connection between the two. Most cat owners neuter their cats.
Why so aggressive? Maybe you need a cat to stroke...it's very calming.
There is not an ounce of aggression in any of my posts, in fact I have been civil throughout, as usual.
I think the connection is obvious.
There are none so blind as those that do not want to see.
I have put forward my position, I have been offered no workable solutions or suggestions so I'll leave it at that for now.0 -
mickredirl wrote: »I am a dog person and alway will be a dog person. I never like cats at all. Then one day I came across a small kitten abandoned at the side of the road. Thankfully I spotted the little furball before he met a car.
I took him home and my view of cats changed all together. Five years later Tiger is living with me and my two labradors. They are all great friends. Tiger is a very social cat, the neighbors kids love him. Cats are amazing animals that are really misunderstood. Before I found Tiger I did not like cat's now I have great respect for them.
Don't hate a cat... love them, they can teach you a thing or two...
I think this post illustrates a major, major blind spot in this thread.
I may have missed one, but there are not many in this thread who have said they don't like cats. For these people, myself included, this has nothing to do with liking (or not) cats.
The problem is not with cats, and it is incorrect and off-topic for people to keep bringing up this "you obviously hate cats" pearl again and again.
The problem that everyone has identified is irresponsible owners.
Again, let me state, it is not the cats. It is their owners.
I also have a problem with dog owners who allow their dogs create a nuisance. This does not make me a dog-hater. It's not the dogs' fault, it is 100% the owners'.
I have a problem with a farmer allowing his stock to wander out on the roads. This does not make me a cow/sheep/goat/horse-hater. If his stock get out, it's not the animals' fault.. it's the farmer's.
I feel I need to labour this point, because throughout this thread it has been repeatedly thrown out that people who give out about cats crapping on their rosebeds obviously hate them. Untrue, and the accusation unfair.
The word "vermin" is an emotive one. The definition of vermin is a mammal or bird that causes harm to game or crops. Unfortunately, because they are allowed roam free, allowed to cause damage to property, and their owners are not identifiable, it is the cats' own owners that place them in this category.
It is odd that in other cat and dog threads, people tut-tut and finger-wag at others who don't conform to their ideas of responsible pet ownership... yet some of the same finger-waggers are cropping up here advocating allowing cats to roam free and into danger.
Seriously, if I posted in a cat thread that I intended to get a cat which I'd allow out in the morning and hope it comes back that evening, I'd be admonished as being irresponsible, and advised not to get a cat!
It is an unacceptable excuse that cats must be allowed roam free.... as I said before, and others have said but we've been conveniently ignored, I know a number of people who have built super-duper cat runs in their gardens. I wouldn't think they're as expensive to build as a good dog run would be. These people are the real responsible cat owners: they're putting their money where their mouth is, they are respecting their neighbours, and critically, they are ensuring the safety of their cat.0 -
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How extremely bad mannered - dragging across threads. Doesn't that break some code of conduct.
I don't see the connection between the two. Most cat owners neuter their cats.
Why so aggressive? Maybe you need a cat to stroke...it's very calming.0 -
How extremely bad mannered - dragging across threads. Doesn't that break some code of conduct.
What?
Does it break forum rules?
Is it bad mannered?
No?
So I can post in one thread, for example, that I think all dogs should be neutered, then post in another thread that I don't agree with neutering dogs, and not expect to be picked up on my contradictory posts?
Really?
There've been a lot of people contravening forum rules so:rolleyes:0 -
Nice. And there was I thinking that for centuries people have kept cats to 'deal' with vermin. Why do so many farms have cats if they are so desperately destructive?
Cats on your own property/farm = perfectly fine
Cats left to roam = inconsiderate person and bad pet owner(you wouldnt just leave a dog or child roam all night!)0 -
Deleted User wrote: »I'm bowing out of this thread while I can.
Mine went out this evening on the green, played with leaves,sat under the cars for an hour, they wandered back, i let the next door neighbours kids have a "hold" of Beanie (they were delighted,parents encouraging it) and the 2 of them came back in,cats happy, kids delighted...parents nonchalant.
Ive been fascinated by this thread the last few days as you would swear i own a heard of obnoxious rampaging defaecating elephants the way some of you are going on. My cats are allowed roam, i allow it and encourage it.....bad owner....you decide?!!!0 -
Missing cat February 2005 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=2404606
Missing cat April 2006 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=51287331
Missing cat July 2006 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=51655501
Missing cat November 2006 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=52359908
Missing cat April 2007 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53101295
Missing cat June 2007 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53423160
Missing cat August 2007 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=53692584
Missing cat September 2007 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54106174
September 2007, owner looking for information about how to prevent a cat straying again, as the first time it disappeared was so upsetting: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54047253
Missing cat November 2007 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=54332130
Missing cat February 2008 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55185401
Missing cat March 2008 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55400228 (this one is a pure bred Burmese who reappeared after about two weeks – wonder what he did in that time?)
Missing cat March 2008 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55494786
Missing cat May 2008 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55940529
Missing cat May 2008 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=55843934
Missing cat July 2008 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=56445373
Missing cat October 2008 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57484192
Missing cat October 2008 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=57591901
Missing cat January 2009 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58833265
February 2009, a discussion on why more cats seem to be going missing, blaming wheely bins as they make scavenging harder for foxes: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=58919956
Missing cat June 2009 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=60569265
Missing cat February 2010 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=64456338
Missing cat March 2010 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65012569
Missing cat April 2010 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=65600451
Missing cat July 2010 – this one appears to have come to a bad end given the fighting noises the owner heard the night it disappeared: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=66791629
Missing cat April 2011 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71730201
Missing cat April 2011 (really love this one, this is a pregnant missing cat gone to have her kittens in someone else’s garden) http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=71643089
Missing cat July 2011 http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73383885
Missing cat July 2011 – this one’s left four month-old kittens behind her http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=73085657
Here’s a particularly charming one – local greyhound owners setting their dogs on domestic cats that they find out and about at night: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=72733223
The board.ie Animals & Pet issues forum Lost & Found thread contains 1,215 posts. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055413146
I counted 21 missing cats in the first 3 pages of 120 posts, and then gave up (too hard) – and note that I wasn’t counting the ‘I found this’ threads that listed cats. But if we extrapolate that figure across the 1,215 posts on the thread, you may discover a number over 70 missing cats.
Many of these cats returned. Some were injured. Some were very thin but apparently unharmed. Some were discovered dead in ditches and roadsides after being hit by cars.
The single constant through every single thread that I’ve linked or referenced is the heartache and concern caused to the owner by their missing pet. The not knowing is almost worse than knowing what happened. You want to fool yourself into thinking that your cat has moved in with some loving family or old dear who’s feeding it sardines and cream, because you don’t want to think your cat died slowly and alone in a ditch after being smacked by a car, or was set upon and torn apart by dogs belonged to scumbags.
Against that body of evidence, I find it odd that people just don’t seem to make the connection between ‘cat allowed to roam’ and ‘cat that doesn’t come home’.
It’s not all that hard to keep your cat on your property – the difficult part is making the mindset shift into realising that restricting your cat’s roaming is good for everybody: the cat, those who love the cat, and those who aren’t so crash hot crazy about your cat.0 -
Fantastic post above.0
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@ The Sweeper.
If I could thank you twice I would have.
I don my hat in your gereral direction!0 -
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+1 Great post Sweeper!
I couldn't help notice some posts in amongst all of those of people who have posted here who have said they have no problem with their cats roaming free and tut-tutted at thos eof us expressing our concerns about the welfare of their cats, yet in the posts you've quoted the very same people have lost a cat in the past and said how heartbroken, worried, and beside themselves they were!
Bizarre, bizarre, bizarre!0 -
Before I start here, my cats are indoor cats with access to a secure outdoor run and for my pet cats I couldn't have it any other way. I did have an indoor/outdoor cat that roamed free in the past and I was up the walls with worry anytime he didn't keep to his schedule, now it always turned out that he had got shut in the garage overnight or had slunk in earlier and was tucked up in a quiet corner, but I just couldn't do that worry with some of mine, they are just too darn special.
However, I have one thing that I am wondering about opinion from some here as a result of this thread. What about feral type cats, the ones that truly live in fear or contempt of people, but have been taken from an unsafe situation and so have sort of become someones responsibility, but are not beloved pets. Now I know of several situations where you would have a group of these. All neutered or spayed, well fed and living in a safe location not too close to urban areas, so not pooping in other peoples back gardens and not close to farms where they are likely to destroy property. Anytime I have been around them all the cats seem to be around, so it really looks like they don't go far at all (probably too afraid of missing out on any food that comes along to go far :pac:).
So basically I am wondering about how people feel about this sort of situation, just out of my own curiosity. Obviously if they did become a pest to someone, something would have to be done, but for most of these cats living too confined with people is not a good option for them.0 -
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+1 Great post Sweeper!
I couldn't help notice some posts in amongst all of those of people who have posted here who have said they have no problem with their cats roaming free and tut-tutted at thos eof us expressing our concerns about the welfare of their cats, yet in the posts you've quoted the very same people have lost a cat in the past and said how heartbroken, worried, and beside themselves they were!
Bizarre, bizarre, bizarre!
Ive also thanked Sweepers post, i nearly always do....she talks amazing, practical sense, most,if not all of the time. I CLEARLY am in the minority here (fair enough). I have followed this thread and the previous one since it started and it seems im the last one standing. Am i meant to take the hint here?
Talk about feeling like the worst cat owner in the world here0 -
To me feral are wild animals with no-one responsible for them regardless of them being fed, no more than feeding birds. As such if they come into my garden and my dogs get them its simply tough luck, I would expect not to get berated by the person feeding them that my dogs killed them. If someone chooses to take extreme measures to remove them from their property no more than they would a rat then that's their choice and again they shouldn't be berated for it as long as the method is humane. Feral cats fall into vermin category for me. I deal with vermin in my house with live traps and release but other people have stronger methods. So if a pet cat is roaming how can someone realistically tell them from a feral?0
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TooManyDogs, I would consider that fair enough really. I get the impression though that if you knew of someone who was taking responsibility for such a colony in your area and feeding them and whatnot that you would approach that person first before taking action and let them know that this may not be a suitable area for them and give them a chance to deal with the situation themselves if they chose?
Again, just curious here. Definitely interested in how others see this situation.0 -
carwash_2006 wrote: »TooManyDogs, I would consider that fair enough really. I get the impression though that if you knew of someone who was taking responsibility for such a colony in your area and feeding them and whatnot that you would approach that person first before taking action and let them know that this may not be a suitable area for them and give them a chance to deal with the situation themselves if they chose?
Again, just curious here. Definitely interested in how others see this situation.
From my point of view: In the country, it's important to have good neighbours. It would be an affront to neighbourly relations to go exterminating all cats that cross over your boundary.
Common sense must prevail, a friendly word usually is enough, but like many things in life, some people just don't get the message for whatever reason. I did state earlier that cats were not a major problem, and they're not, but very occasionally the odd rogue can do damage.
All I want is accountability. If my stock do damage the buck stops with me. That's all I want from free roaming cat owners, traceability.0 -
Im a cat owner and have done everything to stop my cat from leaving my property
At the same time ive been asked to stop cats from causing damage to silage bales (despite some people saying it doesnt happen) poultry and ground nesting birds, ive no problem doing so once the cat as no collar or i dont recognise it as a neighbours cat.
If you have a cat and let it roam dont be surprised if it doesnt come home or you find it dead, its no-ones fault only your own0 -
Regarding thread title...
My thoughts...
It is in their nature to roam, be independent and I feel it is not fair to control this instinct.
But...I've had to console my 9yo daughter who lost more than half her pet pigeons to a cat...she can name them all, sees them from day 1, to taking their first flight etc. Have also lost young hens to a different cat. The cats are fed by my neighbour.
We think the pigeons are now cat proof, but what an effort it's been.
The hens are free range and we've never lost one to anything else. they are safe from fox at night, but cats climb really well. The loss of the pigeons is proof to that.
Personally I don't like cats. I don't like that they are independent and I feel a relationship with them seems to me to be on their terms. I like it to be on my terms.
The dog keeps cats away during the day, but it\s the night time when dog was locked away that we suffered our losses.
We have a pet cat...my daughters actuallySame source as the problem cats referred to already. The kitten...a tiny ball of fur came calling to our door...wouldn't have survived another day. It has deformed front limbs, I suspect as a result on inbreeding among the cats fed by neighbour. We've had her a couple years. She does manage to catch damselflies
but is no threat to our wild birds or pigeons..and the hens keep her in her place when she takes an interest in the chicks. I clipped her claws yesterday. She is a sweetie but I don't attempt to have relationship...;)
The whole issue is a double edged sword for me. I've managed to refrain from killing the cat that killed the pigeons....2 wrongs doesn't make a right and its been a life lesson for my daughter but if roles were reversed and my dog (or cat) was killed by neighbour for causing loss to their animals/pets, I'd view it as another life lesson...0 -
Carwash 2006, I'm lucky that apart from that 1 idiot cat the cats stay out out of my garden, I guess my dogs discourage much trespassing, there are currently 9 in my house!
2 neighbours feed the local feral cat colony and if I did have a problem with one of the cats there is definitely 1 neighbour I would approach before making any decisions on taking action. She's a sensible woman who cares for the cats but also realises that not everyone appreciates them visiting their property. Without taking them into her home though I'm genuinely not sure what she'd be able to do though. Hopefully we'd come up with a solution. The other neighbour is as mad as a box of frogs and you can't approach her for any problem no matter how big or small without her calling the guards!! The cat my dogs catch belongs to the mad neighbour and to be honest I've brought it back to the nice neighbour and asked her to tell mad neighbour to say I found it in my sheep field because mad neighbour has history of throwing rat poison over our fence.0 -
. I accept the risk...i accept the responsibility if im told about any problems they cause.
This is kind of one of the issues I have really. Someone like you decided to leave their cat roam and while on my way to an appointment on day I rounded a corner and he changed his mind about going into the ditch and ran under my jeep. He was walloped front and back .......i can still hear the bangs:(.
Lucky for him I suppose he died instantly......not lucky for me who had to get out and go back to see if I could help him and then remove him from the road.
I was late for my appointment and so upset I had to call OH out there to help me.
I still have the vision in my rear view mirror of him flying through the air.:( He was a very big cat (so big I initially thought it may have been a dog)too and a beautiful cat.
Now my point is it absolutely sickens me that someone else made the decision that is was ok with them if I mowed down their pet. As an animal lover it is certainly not ok with me!! I had awful visions of it after, even to this day.
I would feel exactly the same if it was a dog too by the way.0 -
Ive also thanked Sweepers post, i nearly always do....she talks amazing, practical sense, most,if not all of the time. I CLEARLY am in the minority here (fair enough). I have followed this thread and the previous one since it started and it seems im the last one standing. Am i meant to take the hint here?
Talk about feeling like the worst cat owner in the world here
I don't think we're in a minority out in the real world though. I've never met anyone around where I live (rural) who has any problem with cats. Indeed I've never met anyone who doesn't think keeping cats indoors is cruel.
I love my child, it doesn't mean I can keep him safely shut in the house - however much I might like to. I love my cats - but the biggest joy in their lives is to go out and night and hunt. Without this they may as well be dead, so I have to accept that their lives may well be shorter, but they will be happier. This is only my cats - I can see that people here successfully keep indoor cats. I will never do that.
These threads just bring out the worst in people.0 -
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So how about the practical rather than the theory. A lot of cats are owned by old people who cannot cope with the demands of a dog but love the company of a cat. Are these owner going to be able to build a big run ? If we say that no cat should be allowed to roam then we fundamentally alter the perception of a cat from a relatively low maintenance pet to a very high one. We also prevent thousands of people from owning a companion animal because they could not comply with the requirements.
But the really worrying aspect of this thread is some of the implied comment that it's OK to kill or harm a Cat. To me this sets a very dangerous precedent.
EDIT: The Legal Advisor on the Shooting UK site has posted the following advice for anyone considering shooting a Cat. I accept that there may be some differences in Irish law:
"Shooting legal advice
DAVID FROST
General licences are all about managing pest birds. Only a few mammal pest species (badgers for example) have specific protection under the law.
There is nothing to stop you shooting a feral cat provided you are absolutely certain it is feral.
The difficulty is in distinguishing between a genuinely feral cat and someone's domestic moggy that's wandering a long way from home.
If you shoot a domestic cat you would be committing criminal damage and as well as being charged you could also be sued by the owner for damages.
Cats have less protection in law than dogs and if, for instance, you run one over you are not obliged to report the matter to police as you are with a dog."0
This discussion has been closed.
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