Is religion a farce?

Stargazer7

Helix wrote: »

not sure if youre talking about the rape of all those kids, the centuries of ruling through fear, all the lies and misinformation, or something you perceive as good here

Well either. For me it's more the negative. Not because I'm a negative person - there are plenty of good people in the church and it has some good teachings...it's just that the cons far outweigh the pros. Lay people could do the churches good works just as well and do all the time. Fr. Brian Darcy is also a man I have felt sorry for as he has stated repeatedly he has issues with the abuse cover ups, ruling through fear etc., that he would like to have a family. It's a pity he is denying himself the chance of a family as I think he would still do great work as a layman.

Cú Giobach

Freddie59 wrote: »

Interestingly, those who get most worked up about the existence of God appear to be those without beliefs. From reading the many anti-religion threads on here it's patently obvious. the ridiculing of believers; of the Almighty; of the church - it's endless. But, I suppose, it's far easier to sit on that side these days.

Whereas those with a deep sense of faith seem quite content. Go figure.:)

The little world of boards.ie is not the world, and in the real world the most worked up and vocal people are believers, damming people to hell for not subscribing to their particular faith or advocating death for others for not obeying certain "god given" laws about various aspects of human behaviour.
As was mentioned earlier, many of the religious will never be happy until every person on the planet subscribes to their particular faith.

Stargazer7

Kidchameleon wrote: »

The church and being christian are two different things. That bloody organization run by the vatican is about as far from being christian as it gets. I wish people who are not religious would not associate religious people with peados and the church etc. You may well see then end of the church but christianity will live on

I agree with you here but why don't those people then stop attending mass, receiving the sacraments etc and set up their own organisation or something.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. If the church was just like any other institution or company and we found out that a sizable number of their employees were abusing and battering children. Then that the CEO or managers covered it up from the gardai, would people still keep buying coffee or whatever from this company? No, they would go somewhere else, they would boycott it.

Freddie59

housetypeb wrote: »

The "no true scotsman" line of defence, how original.

:rolleyes:

Freddie59

Cú Giobach wrote: »

The little world of boards.ie is not the world, and in the real world the most worked up and vocal people are believers, damming people to hell for not subscribing to their particular faith or advocating death for others for not obeying certain "god given" laws about various aspects of human behaviour.
As was mentioned earlier, many of the religious will never be happy until every person on the planet subscribes to their particular faith.

Again a sweeping generalisation. You appear to be confusing the ones in Grafton Street to genuine believers, the majority of whom go about their businesss (and faith) quietly on a daily basis.

Dave!

Freddie59 wrote: »

1. The Church did not 'do it'. Paedophiles masquerading as priests did.

They've probably all been excommunicated by the Church then, right?

Freddie59

ScumLord wrote: »

What's the distinction between a church authority and say the Pope? I would have thought all ordained members of the church where authorities. I'm fairly sure there where ordinary Catholics involved too, these would have been masquerading as guards and other ordinary Irish citizens that said nothing to protect the reputation of their faith.

Agreed - but they wouild have been in a (powerful) minority. Kinda like the handful of people who have put this country in hock, really.

Freddie59

Mickeroo wrote: »

Well that's rubbish. People are content on both sides. Sweeping generalisations and that.

Yes, but on this forum those who seem most tormented are the anti-religious ones. As I said - go figure.:)

Freddie59

Dave! wrote: »

They've probably all been excommunicated by the Church then, right?

No, unfortunately.

Freddie59

Stargazer7 wrote: »

Stop playing semantics. The church includes the church authorities and the priests and the congregation.

I have no intention of looking for a scapegoat - I cited the church as an institution as one reason why more people are becoming atheists these days. I did not say it was my sole one. So perhaps you should read the posts a bit more carefully before you post yourself. I'm perfectly contented in my life, stop assuming that non believers aren't or that religious people are. I am just capable of having an intellectual discussion and have an ability to question things rather than following the herd for my "contentedness".

Absolute rubbish.

Stargazer7

Freddie59 wrote: »

Absolute rubbish.

Well thought out comeback there...that totally smashed my argument:rolleyes:

I am all for mature discussion and a lack of back biting, just saying "you're wrong" doesn't cut it. Engage if you want to make a point, I'm really not that sensitive, despite the fact that you think all us atheists are overly excitable about the topic.

Derek!

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Not believing in god has nothing to do with how you feel about religion. You could not believe in god and think religion is wonderful.

Probably if I hadn't already called it a load of BS, obviously people can and will make up their own minds about it and it's their right to do so.

Mickeroo

Freddie59 wrote: »

Yes, but on this forum those who seem most tormented are the anti-religious ones. As I said - go figure.:)

Being tormented by religious posters on an internet forum is not the same as being a tormented person in general. There's only one poster I've seen on here who comes off as being tormented or mentally unstable in their posts, and they're definitley not an atheist that's for sure.

It's not you by the way

starlit

Stargazer7 wrote: »

You don't believe in gravity? Or oxygen? :P

I'm a physics graduate and love all things sciencey but my view would be I don't believe in God, but if it's proved to me in some sort of factual way rather than the "believe it cos we say so" way. I don't think you're a scientist in the real sense unless you allow for that possibility. Think of all the crazy **** science has proved - quantum mechanics, general relativity etc. etc.

I do yes! I firmly believe that we evolved from the apes/evolution none of that adam and eve cac! They might have existed but the whole thing about the story of that is bs. I might not have been great at science and way worse at religion but I have always believed in science more so than religion not that I am into Scientology by any means. Not into any major religion at all all a cult in my eyes. I believe in astronomy, I do question a lot of things, I am curious by nature. I always like to know how things come about and how such a thing occurs. I don't like lies spun to meet an ideal such as religious teachings this is it that's all it is no other its one way or the high way at least science there is more than one way to achieve the same outcome but doing different experiments a better and more innovated, technological advanced way to keep up with modern times! I strive for knowledge and like factual things. If its proven I will believe it! If its not I won't believe it. I am mesmerised by how the human brain works! I love computer related things so guess that's where my scientific bone comes in and like researching....

Ghost Buster

doovdela wrote: »

I do yes! I firmly believe that we evolved from the apes/evolution none of that adam and eve cac! They might have existed but the whole thing about the story of that is bs. I might not have been great at science and way worse at religion but I have always believed in science more so than religion not that I am into Scientology by any means. Not into any major religion at all all a cult in my eyes. I believe in astronomy, I do question a lot of things, I am curious by nature. I always like to know how things come about and how such a thing occurs. I don't like lies spun to meet an ideal such as religious teachings this is it that's all it is no other its one way or the high way at least science there is more than one way to achieve the same outcome but doing different experiments a better and more innovated, technological advanced way to keep up with modern times! I strive for knowledge and like factual things. If its proven I will believe it! If its not I won't believe it. I am mesmerised by how the human brain works! I love computer related things so guess that's where my scientific bone comes in and like researching....

Funny. Are you serious!!!!???

starlit

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Funny. Are you serious!!!!???

W-h-a? Ya I am being serious!:p I don't even know what Scientology is and I don't think its even a religion even though they state it is.

starlit

Scientology is not a scientific thing its a religious thing no?

Ghost Buster

doovdela wrote: »

Scientology is not a scientific thing its a religious thing no?

Yes. So why say 'I believe in science but Im not into scientology'.
A little like saying I love my dog but Im not into dogma.

starlit

Ghost Buster wrote: »

Yes. So why say 'I believe in science but Im not into scientology'.
A little like saying I love my dog but Im not into dogma.

Science and Scientology are too different things!? I believe in scientific facts but I don't believe in scientology religious teachings. :eek:

Craebear

doovdela wrote: »

I have always believed in science more so than religion not that I am into Scientology by any means

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto

starlit

Science and religion are two different things! Two different opposing sides of the spectrum.

starlit

Science doesn't believe in God, it wants to recreate God but doesn't believe in religious teachings. Its like da vinci he wanted to recreate 'birds' which he did by creating a type of 'plane' he wanted create something people could fly or how he could fly in the air! Obviously the wrights brothers carried out that idea and planes became history...science is a virtue!? Then how are we created? How was the world created? how was the universe created?

Turtwig

doovdela wrote: »

Then how are we created?

Self replicating organic molecules.

How was the world created?

Coalescence of the elements produced by the supernova explosion of a star.

how was the universe created?

Technically the universe has always existed.

doovdela

doovdela wrote: »

Science and religion are two different things! Two different opposing sides of the spectrum.

Emm... No.

Science and religion can easily coexist. They exist/don't exist completely independently of one another.

Overheal

Craebear wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MRmxfLuNto

I usually reserve this for more involved inane responses with a bit more depth... but yeah ok.

Cú Giobach

Freddie59 wrote: »

Again a sweeping generalisation. You appear to be confusing the ones in Grafton Street to genuine believers, the majority of whom go about their businesss (and faith) quietly on a daily basis.

I'm not even talking about the slightly disturbing people you see ranting on the street, more the growing number of fundie Muslims and Christians around the world, who are certainly not just going about their business quietly, also (though it doesn't happen today I would imagine) the centuries of "pulpit bashing",
There is no doubt whatsoever that if you want to hear some ranting and watch some quite disturbed people in action, you would be better off going to an evangelical christian meeting than the gathering of a number of atheists.
By the way you think someone who rants on the street is not a genuine believer? Wow, who are you to judge someones beliefs or lack of ?

ed2hands

Stargazer7 wrote: »

I think you'll find for the most part atheists are statistically pretty well educated.

:pac:

I think you'll find some atheists are up their own arse aswell.

Mickeroo

Overheal wrote: »

I usually reserve this for more involved inane responses with a bit more depth... but yeah ok.

hah, what's that clip from?

AudreyHepburn

When oh when will people realise these kinds of discussions will never get anywhere worthwhile? They only descend into insult and argument on BOTH sides.

Is religion a farce.....it depends on who you ask I suppose.

Personally I do believe in God but that it is my business and I have no interest in pushing it on anyone, nor would any of the religous I know.

If you ask me the only farical things about this whole debate are the fantatical religious and those condscending arrogant athiests who cannot see that they are as bad as eachother and do no-one any favours.

B_Fanatic

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

When oh when will people realise these kinds of discussions will never get anywhere worthwhile? They only descend into insult and argument on BOTH sides.

Is religion a farce.....it depends on who you ask I suppose.

That's just it though, religion can't both be a farce and not be one at the same time. No matter how many people believe in a deity it won't make it anymore true. In saying that however, if someone was to give me some conclusive evidence that made the likelihood that a god exists greater than the likelihood schlee didn't, then sure, I'd change my view and spend a year out travelling the world humbly apologising to religous people everywhere.

And what about god? The 'everlasting?' Where did he come from? "God has always been," screw that! Why not cut out the middle man and just say matter and energy has always been? What makes that any less likely than the existence of a god?

No need to plaster over your ignorance with a deity, just admit there's some things you don't know and work at figuring them out if that's what you want to do.