Is religion a farce?

Tehachapi

northkildare wrote: »

he could speak to people and draw them in and follow him

Remind you of anyone?

B_Fanatic

Tehachapi wrote: »

You're arguing with people who believe a man walked across the sea, and could also transfer this water-walking ability to other people.

You won't get anywhere!

There are people that are that stubborn that they will just blatantly disagree in the face of overwhelming evidence and logic, but that would be the minority. Maybe showing someone that scripture isn't a good argument will give them that foot up on to the fence, and that I wouldn't mind. If someone is indecisive about something they are more likely to be thnking about it than something that they consider settled.

starlit

Jesus was a Jew he wasn't a Catholic and yet Catholics are suppose to follow him in the eyes of Catholic religious beliefs? And God is what? People will believe what they want to believe not necessary what they should believe. Everyone is different. Religion is only there for the sake of it. St Patrick converted us Irish from Pagans to Catholics, why oh why didn't we stay pagans! None of this Catholic tripe!

Calibos

northkildare wrote: »

ww2 was started by an anti god man and your suggesting more people should be anti god like him.

As for the jews, they had all the best jobs in germany at the time and made sure they passed on the best jobs to their own, nazi germany didnt just pick on jews for no reason,

Hitler was very dangerous because he could speak to people and draw them in and follow him, I believe he was put on earth by the devil cos nobody since has shown that gift of speech, if he was around today he could still take over germany just by talking to people.

Remind me never to go to NorthKildare.

We're told we shouldn't make inferences about peoples intelligence if they are religious, but the phrase, "Walks like a duck, talks like a duck" springs to mind.....

B_Fanatic

B_Fanatic wrote: »

In saying that however, if someone was to give me some conclusive evidence that made the likelihood that a god exists greater than the likelihood schlee didn't, then sure, I'd change my view and spend a year out travelling the world humbly apologising to religous people everywhere.

Actually it is more likely that a god exists. Likelihood=probablility, and probability is based on possible outcomes. That no god exists = 1 possible outcome. That a god of some form exists = an infinite number of outcomes consisting of all the different possible gods that could exist. So therefore the likelihood lies with the existence of a god of some form.

doovdela wrote: »

People will believe what they want to believe not necessary what they should believe.

What is it that you think I "should" believe? And what makes you feel qualified to choose that?

Mickeroo

true-or-false wrote: »

Actually it is more likely that a god exists. Likelihood=probablility, and probability is based on possible outcomes. That no god exists = 1 possible outcome. That a god of some form exists = an infinite number of outcomes consisting of all the different possible gods that could exist. So therefore the likelihood lies with the existence of a god of some form.

You don't understand probability. :pac:

geetar

northkildare wrote: »

ww2 was started by an anti god man and your suggesting more people should be anti god like him.

As for the jews, they had all the best jobs in germany at the time and made sure they passed on the best jobs to their own, nazi germany didnt just pick on jews for no reason,

Hitler was very dangerous because he could speak to people and draw them in and follow him, I believe he was put on earth by the devil cos nobody since has shown that gift of speech, if he was around today he could still take over germany just by talking to people.

hitler also had a moustache, does that mean all men with moustaches are also going to take over the world?

if hitler had won the war you would be calling him your god, and would have no interest in christianity. think about that.

Cú Giobach

northkildare wrote: »

ww2 was started by an anti god man and your suggesting more people should be anti god like him.



Hitler was very dangerous because he could speak to people and draw them in and follow him, I believe he was put on earth by the devil cos nobody since has shown that gift of speech, if he was around today he could still take over germany just by talking to people.

To follow on from the moustache comment above, Hitler also loved dogs, should the fact that he had this particular trait mean that being like him in this way is somehow wrong?

Hitler was not the only great orator and charismatic leader the world has or will see, history is full of such people, some we would consider good, others evil, and some could be either depending on which side of the ideological fence one is sitting on.

As for the jews, they had all the best jobs in germany at the time and made sure they passed on the best jobs to their own, nazi germany didnt just pick on jews for no reason,

It wasn't just the Germans who vilified the Jewish people, and the Nazis picked on a lot more than just them.

Davidius

true-or-false wrote: »

Actually it is more likely that a god exists. Likelihood=probablility, and probability is based on possible outcomes. That no god exists = 1 possible outcome. That a god of some form exists = an infinite number of outcomes consisting of all the different possible gods that could exist. So therefore the likelihood lies with the existence of a god of some form.

By the same token I could say it is more likely that somebody has superpowers, given the choice between the potentially infinite combinations of superpowers versus no super powers. More generally what you've done is given a set of ways an event A might occur, then added a special element, said that's where A doesn't occur and then tried to say that because A is small in this set it must be unlikely. This set doesn't really fit the question.

Specifically what you've done here is constructed a set where the possibilities are 'God X exists', with an added an element that is 'No God exists'. By weighing out that single element versus the rest of the set you can make it appear as though No God exists is improbable. However I could just easily construct a set where the possibilities are God X doesn't exist, with the added element 'A God exists'. Using the same argument I could conclude that A God exists is improbable.

A better (though probably still weak) framework is constructing a set of possibilities S. In this set of possibilities you have possibilities where God X exists, with an accompanying possibility that God X doesn't exist. Then there is a subset of S, say F, that contains all the God X doesn't exist possibilities. The measure of F as a subset of S can tell you about the probability that no god exists but I don't think there's any coherent way of dealing with that question, and I'm certainly not equipped to deal with it. I'm doubtful probability theory can really tell you anything about the existence of god(s).

In fact I'd say what I've done here probably doesn't really count as rigorous or an entirely coherent treatment but the rough idea should be clear.

tl;dr The fallacy is that no god exists isn't actually 1 possible outcome, rather it is a set of possible outcomes.

bnt

Hitler's position on religion is confusing and the subject of much discussion, since he sometimes said one thing in public (including his writings) but the opposite in private. There's no question that he used religious imagery and exhortations in public speeches, claiming that e.g. the "final solution" was a religious undertaking. On the other hand, his private "Table Talk" gave the impression that his use of religion was political and cynical. But all that was primarily with respect to Catholicism, the dominant religion of Germany at the time, and the Vatican was also political, in the sense that millions of people looked to them for guidance. The Vatican's approval of Hitler, after the Reichskonkordat, carried a lot of weight in Nazi Germany.

Like Stalinism, we can see in retrospect how Naziism became a political religion, In my opinion: there's not much point arguing whether Stalin and Hitler "had religion", when they founded and led their own political religions to justify their atrocities. In either case, we reliably say that Stalin or Hitler were not atheists.

ScumLord

northkildare wrote: »

ww2 was started by an anti god man and your suggesting more people should be anti god like him.

As for the jews, they had all the best jobs in germany at the time and made sure they passed on the best jobs to their own, nazi germany didnt just pick on jews for no reason,

Hitler was very dangerous because he could speak to people and draw them in and follow him, I believe he was put on earth by the devil cos nobody since has shown that gift of speech, if he was around today he could still take over germany just by talking to people.

You make it sound like the German people where tricked into WW2 by Hitlers silver tongue. The fact is Hitler was saying what was on everybodies minds, we was the wrong man, in the wrong place at the wrong time.

It wouldn't happen today because the right circumstances aren't happening to bring tensions to a head. It's got nothing to do with how well a person can speak, it's utter nonsense to think a person could convince an entire country into war in this day and age.

Put here by the devil. :rolleyes:

Tayla

The catholic church is rotten to its very core.

**Vai**

Is religion a farce?

In my opinion, yes it is. However, I recognise peoples right to believe whatever crazy **** they want/need to. That is all.

Mickeroo

Mickeroo wrote: »

You don't understand probability. :pac:

That's very true!

fehenry

Tayla wrote: »

The catholic church is rotten to its very core.

IMO, it would be hard to argue against that.
But, at the same time, there are millions of believers who are decent, conscientious individuals who try to live their lives according to the teachings of that church and not its practices. If the church wasn’t there, society would suffer.
It’s akin to saying that motor vehicles should not be banned because there is mayhem on the roads. With regard to the current clerical abuse controversy, it’s the duty of the civil authorities to pursue all breaches of the laws of the land.
If anyone is found guilty of breaching those laws, he or she should be held legally accountable for their actions.

paddyandy

The POPULAR versions of everything tend to be lacking you probably have known one of the "Cola" versions. Religion is the great Adventure.Find your own way.

Downlinz

Religions are simply a collection of spiritual and moral beliefs. I don't see how they can be anything, the problem lies in cultural pressures around them. The significance society places on what religion you belong to which results in people being part of a religion who don't follow said religions ideals at all. Society is rotten, and how society views and practices religion is rotten. Theres nothing wrong with the religions themselves, they are what they are.

tfitzgerald

There was a time I would have said no but now I just don't know anymore I hope not but it's getting harder and harder to believe in the church

Lady Chuckles

Downlinz wrote: »

Society is rotten, and how society views and practices religion is rotten. Theres nothing wrong with the religions themselves, they are what they are.

Well said!!!

cowzerp

People believe what there brainwashed to believe-i strongly believed in Santa and the Tooth fairy untill 1 day i was told that it was just a fib.

I believed in a Zombie who came back from the dead because i was told it from birth it was true, then when i looked at all the facts on offer when old enough there where none to make me hold onto this belief that some greater being is out there that is less believable than sun worshipping which there is proof its out there, proof we'd die without it and if people told you that was there faith most would laugh at them.

Let people believe what they want but it's a shame wehn people live there lives in fear because there been judged by a god that there is no evidense that exists.

paddyandy

Lots of things existed that people did not about at all.Like radio waves ,microbes.Star distances and many other phenomena.God has always been concealed to most people does he have to be evident???Try telling people in the dying rooms around the worlds hospitals there's no God.Nothing like serious i llness to educate people.

mackg

paddyandy wrote: »

Lots of things existed that people did not about at all.Like radio waves ,microbes.Star distances and many other phenomena.God has always been concealed to most people does he have to be evident???Try telling people in the dying rooms around the worlds hospitals there's no God.Nothing like serious i llness to educate people.

Yeah education through desperation and fear, do you think people who turn to god in moments like that are doing it because they now believe they were wrong or because they hope they were wrong?

Nobody said radio waves sent their son to earth to save us from our sins either. Bad analogy.

careca11

ddef wrote: »

It gives billions of people hope and meaning every day of their lives.

hope is the sort of thing that can kill a man ,

hoping for jesus or god to come and save us ..........................its laughable really

EvesBlogg

I wonder at what point in human evolution did god step in and say - right this person still looks and smells like a bit of an ape, I wont give them a soul, but their kids may be slightly more like humans so they can have one!
Religion equally brings trouble, hatred and hope to people, a lot of good and a lot of bad. Personally,.. it is a load of balls...if people were all just spiritual and good without needing to align themselves to any particular religion then there would not be as much of a problem

sheesh

EvesBlogg wrote: »

I wonder at what point in human evolution did god step in and say - right this person still looks and smells like a bit of an ape, I wont give them a soul, but their kids may be slightly more like humans so they can have one!
Religion equally brings trouble, hatred and hope to people, a lot of good and a lot of bad. Personally,.. it is a load of balls...if people were all just spiritual and good without needing to align themselves to any particular religion then there would not be as much of a problem

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Phenomenon_of_Man

cowzerp

paddyandy wrote: »

Try telling people in the dying rooms around the worlds hospitals there's no God.Nothing like serious i llness to educate people.

Educate!!!!!!!!!!!!
yeah fear of not existing anymore suddenly means your educated, i would suggest that there delusional and i would not be suprised if i do same thing on my death bed!! just in case i'm wrong-fear and vanity will make a person do such stupid things.

EvesBlogg

careca11 wrote: »

hope is the sort of thing that can kill a man ,

hoping for jesus or god to come and save us ..........................its laughable really

Is that a quote from the shawshank redemption?

Davidius

paddyandy wrote: »

Lots of things existed that people did not about at all.Like radio waves ,microbes.Star distances and many other phenomena.God has always been concealed to most people does he have to be evident???Try telling people in the dying rooms around the worlds hospitals there's no God.Nothing like serious i llness to educate people.

Just because somebody believes something without any evidence and it turns out to be true doesn't mean their belief was any more rational or justified. If you told somebody that radio waves existed without a shred of evidence or at least a plausible basis for the conjecture then they'd be perfectly reasonable in being skeptical and not believing you.

The reason God has to be evident is because it is expected of people to dedicate a significant portion of their time to worshipping him, as well as the fact that he's chalked up to giving people divine insight into how to run society. Aside from that, the claim that God exists needs evidence to discern itself from the infinite number of alternative possibilities that are objectively just as valid.

People become very religious when seriously ill mostly likely because they are scared. It is known that people do not always act rationally, especially when they are afraid. Just because a person is dying doesn't mean that their reasoning for belief gains credibility. Contrary to popular belief, people on their deathbed are generally not that insightful.

EvesBlogg

I believe there may be a god, like dark energy and dark matter that the scientists cant see or prove exists, hell, maybe that is god! but Religion, and religions are a load of ****..there are so many, to many reasons for people to say, ours is better, best do it our way, they believe in strange things, they are fools for believing that - we know better, we are better than them because we are not....jews (for example) or look at muslim extremists or even Ian paisley lol If people really were close to god they wouldn't let a silly thing like religion make them hate another person. who knows if god exists, Im an agnostic

ScumLord

EvesBlogg wrote: »

I believe there may be a god, like dark energy and dark matter that the scientists cant see or prove exists, hell, maybe that is god!

They haven't found much evidence but there is evidence that lead them to guess there must be something that they're calling dark matter. They just can't find a way of recording it's existance. To be honest the only reason I accept dark energy, matter and flow is because the people telling me have proven intelligence and can back up what their saying to a point, they also fully admit their out on a limb and guessing. None of it sits right in my head and calling holes in their theories dark something really makes me wonder how wrong they could be.