Is religion a farce?

RichieC

ScumLord wrote: »

They haven't found much evidence but there is evidence that lead them to guess there must be something that they're calling dark matter. They just can't find a way of recording it's existance. To be honest the only reason I accept dark energy, matter and flow is because the people telling me have proven intelligence and can back up what their saying to a point, they also fully admit their out on a limb and guessing. None of it sits right in my head and calling holes in their theories dark something really makes me wonder how wrong they could be.

Its the modern day concentric circles.

RichieC

EvesBlogg wrote: »

I believe there may be a god, like dark energy and dark matter that the scientists cant see or prove exists, hell, maybe that is god! but Religion, and religions are a load of ****..there are so many, to many reasons for people to say, ours is better, best do it our way, they believe in strange things, they are fools for believing that - we know better, we are better than them because we are not....jews (for example) or look at muslim extremists or even Ian paisley lol If people really were close to god they wouldn't let a silly thing like religion make them hate another person. who knows if god exists, Im an agnostic

God of the gaps... you may hope those gaps are never filled or you'll have no god left.

Akrasia

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Morality is the main argument for religion these days.

if we were to follow the christian bible's morality, there would still be public stonings for the most trivial of 'sins' (ie things like eating the wrong combination of food). When you challenge a christian about the horrific violence, slavery, rape, torture, infanticide, genocide etc in the old testament, we are told 'that was based on the cultural values of the time'

That is tantamount to an admission that prevailing cultural values have a far greater influence on morality than religion does.

I know atheists rararant about morality being found in atheism, but I'm afraid that there is no reason for an atheist to act morally.

There are loads of reasons why atheists act morally. here are a few:
1. I'll treat people in the way that I would like to be treated. I have no right to respect if I don't treat others with respect.
2. I will act morally because I want to have a close relationship with my friends and family. If i'm a total bastard who steals and bullies everyone around me, I'm not going to have good relationships.
3. I value my reputation, I also do not want to make other people ashamed to know or associate with me.
4. I have seen what society looks like when there is no morality or where morality is warped by religion or a totalitarian regime or desperate poverty. I would much prefer to live somewhere civilised and pleasant.

People who claim to be religious but do highly immoral things are not religious, imo.

This is the 'no true scotsman' fallacy.

Atheists often go on about how religion is dogmatic and only fools follow it, but I find some of the greatest fools are atheists who are just doing it to be cool, and many atheists thousands of times more persecuting and dogmatic than any religious people.

Religion is by definition dogmatic. It is a set of revealed 'truths' that are followed and worshipped by a collection of people. There is no athiest dogma, atheists only share one belief, that there is no god. In general, atheists seem like they're all repeating similar anti religion arguments, this is only because there are a limited number of pro-religion arguments to refute. If you think atheists are repetitive or predictable, it is nowhere near as predictable and repetitive as the standard retreat when a religious person is confronted with a flaw in his theology "You don't understand the true meaning of what I believe ===> I have a personal Faith ====> Billions of people can't all be wrong ====> You can't disprove the existance of god, therefore, god's existence must be equally as likely as his non existence =====> Atheism is nothing but a religion anyway."

I do not claim to be religious, but I refuse to call myself an atheist under the grounds that I don't want to be associated with bigoted, dogmatic, thoughtless arseholes without any regard for a persons beliefs. If anything should be widespread in this day and age, it should be humanism, not atheism. Personally, I think that raw atheism is the worst thing for society, and in many ways a religion, with its own idols, prophets, texts, and a set of beliefs.

humanism is atheism. The only difference is branding.

Just because people are very strident about their atheistic arguments on boards.ie doesn't mean they're going door to door trying to make grannies cry (unlike the evangelicals going door to door telling atheists they're going to be tortured for eternity while they get to go and have an awsome time in heaven)

Vicxas

Oh god not religion again....

paddyandy

DAVIDIUS God does'nt have to be anything...

HUNK

paddyandy wrote: »

DAVIDIUS God does'nt have to be anything...

Wut?

Davidius

paddyandy wrote: »

DAVIDIUS God does'nt have to be anything...

What are you talking about? Elaborate, I really don't see how that makes any sense.

Mickeroo

EvesBlogg wrote: »

Is that a quote from the shawshank redemption?

It bloody well is you know.

paddyandy wrote: »

Lots of things existed that people did not about at all.Like radio waves ,microbes.Star distances and many other phenomena.God has always been concealed to most people does he have to be evident???Try telling people in the dying rooms around the worlds hospitals there's no God.Nothing like serious i llness to educate people.

All those things you've mentioned have been proven to exist though, and are observable too. And surely you mean "try telling the religious people..." because I can garauntee you not all people on their death beds believe in a godl, they certainly don't all believe in the same one you're talking about.

ToddyDoody

I haven't attended mass in years and have studied (and continue to use) a scientific training. Some observations i've come across; Some say health and money are the new religions. Science and scientific progress, capitalism and environmentalism also seem to attract the belief factor once given to religions -beyond what's justified. The famous 20th century psychiatrist Carl Jung said that he never 'cured' someone from a neurosis in the second half of their life without the patient's adoption of a religious attitude. If you've ever longed for a little bit of paradise via a foreign holiday, nice meal or through sex etc. (who hasn't on a regular basis), its somewhat analogous to attempting to re-enter the garden of eden. In saying that, the earth is billions of years old and would seem to have evolved as darwin discovered, but that knowledge doesnt seem to fulfill much of our psychological needs. Darwin doesnt comfort us much when staring death or ruin in the face. Without religion, the state seems to assume too much control of every aspect of a person's life trough passing laws and codes of conduct dictating how people ought behave. (a function once served more by religious practice)

noxqs

Why is death without an afterlife scary? To be honest - that has never scared me. The rationale is pretty simple. Before I was born, I felt nothing, there was so to speak - nothing (from my point of view) and when I die, I return to that state. There's nothing to fear in that.

Religious people have a habit of enforcing their beliefs on others. Just look at alcohol laws in Ireland for a very familiar example. If they want to be sober - fine. Just don't force the rest of us.

Religion is a farce. If anyone walked around today proclaiming to believe in Odin, Thor, Mars, Zeus - like seriously - he would be ridiculed. Surely everyone knows that's silly "old gods".

Why is Christianity, Islam, Hinduism etc any different than those old gods? Why should we be convinced? Hmm?

Calibos

Deathbed conversions, No Atheists in Foxholes.....blah, blah, blah.

'Feeling' just like I did for the 14 billion years of the universes existence before I was born for the 14 billion years after I die, holds a lot less fear for me than the thoughts that there is the Abrahamic God about to judge me and possibly send me to hell for a minor deviation from some silly dogma or admit me to heaven only for me to find that some loved ones are not there for some silly reason and are burning in the hellfire for eternity.

THAT thought terrifies me. No deathbed conversion for me boyo!!!

I fear the process of dying. I don't want a painful death but then again a theists faith offers no protection for that either. I do not fear what comes after, ie. Nothing, A state of non existence. Honestly, I think a lot of people that fear death must have this foolish impression that it will be like their disembodied conciousness floating in a cold dark silent place for eternity. Why would they think that the state of non existence after death is any different from the state of non existence before conception?

Kidchameleon

noxqs wrote: »

Before I was born, I felt nothing, there was so to speak - nothing (from my point of view)

Either there was nothing or you just don't remember? Do you remember for example, the moments just after you were born, when there most definitely was something?

Pace2008

noxqs wrote: »

Why is death without an afterlife scary? To be honest - that has never scared me. The rationale is pretty simple. Before I was born, I felt nothing, there was so to speak - nothing (from my point of view) and when I die, I return to that state. There's nothing to fear in that.

For one thing, we're naturally preprogrammed to fear death. If we weren't, we'd have no qualms with frequently putting ourselves in potentially life-threatening situations which could end in result in death before we've had the chance to reproduce or care for our progeny, which wouldn't be particularly efficient from an evolutionary standpoint.

For another, the thought of nothingness is completely incomprehensible to humans, and we tend to fear that which we don't understand. Even the closest thing of which we can conceive, and empty black void, is similarly frightening.

It's also pretty saddening to think that the entire personalities of our friends and relatives, all their traits and quirks, all the knowledge they hold, are wiped out forever completely with death. It's comforting for some to think that this is not the case, and their persons have merely moved on in immaterial form to another dimension, where they can be reached again at another stage.

I can totally dig why people are afraid of death, to be honest.

noxqs

Arguing with theists is like playing logical fallacy bingo.

To the post above; Yes - the mental experiment of trying to comprehend the vastness of space - and our place in it, is a humbling one. Even trying to imagine nothingness (where not even the color black exists?) is almost impossible.

Now - I don't want to die - fear of the afterlife or absence of it was my point, not the instinct for self preservation which is still active regardless of belief. There's a nice old norse poem from the Islandic Edda which goes a bit like this;

Cattle die,
Kinsmen die,
I too shall die,
But I know one thing that never dies,
The judgement of dead mens lives.
(judgement is taken from the word domr which is judgement/valuation/honor)

The idea is that the memory lives on when a person dies, the greater the person the greater and longer the memory persists. That's motivational in a sense; do good in life and your memory will be preserved, for a time.

Obelisk

I have to laugh at the amount of people who seem to view 'god' as some kind of person? Wtf

Believe it or not, religious texts are amazingly interesting, shrouded in mystery.

Priests are there not to help put you in direct contact with the source but to keep you from it! Think about that for a while.

housetypeb wrote: »

How could virgin births, talking snakes and donkeys, a man rising from the dead,unicorns,
angels fighting with their creator, men living to 900+ years, every species of animal fitting onto a wooden boat for 40 days, a talking bush...
be considered a farce?

It's genius. These are not literal stories, but symbolic of another meaning, a meaning deliberately hidden from the profane (such as yourself)

Once you learn the esoteric meaning of the teachings & symbols involved, the subject of religion can take a far more interesting turn.

Just my experiences, I don't regard myself as religious at all ritualistic maybe

Mickeroo

noxqs wrote: »

To the post above; Yes - the mental experiment of trying to comprehend the vastness of space - and our place in it, is a humbling one. Even trying to imagine nothingness (where not even the color black exists?) is almost impossible.

In scientific terms black is not a colour it's the absence of colour :pac:

housetypeb

Obelisk wrote: »

I have to laugh at the amount of people who seem to view 'god' as some kind of person? Wtf

Believe it or not, religious texts are amazingly interesting, shrouded in mystery.

Priests are there not to help put you in direct contact with the source but to keep you from it! Think about that for a while.



It's genius. These are not literal stories, but symbolic of another meaning, a meaning deliberately hidden from the profane (such as yourself)

Once you learn the esoteric meaning of the teachings & symbols involved, the subject of religion can take a far more interesting turn.

Just my experiences, I don't regard myself as religious at all ritualistic maybe

So you're not religious, but you have figured out the hidden meaning of religious texts,which the priests hide from believers and the profane(like me) alike.

Do go on,I'd like to hear more, teach us the truth.

Obelisk

I'm not religious. I wouldnt be so arrogant to think I have figured it all out but if pushed on your question I would have to give you a yes!

housetypeb wrote: »

Do go on,I'd like to hear more, teach us the truth.

Are you sure you are ready for this?

Calibos

Obelisk wrote: »

I'm not religious. I wouldnt be so arrogant to think I have figured it all out but if pushed on your question I would have to give you a yes!



Are you sure you are ready for this?

Do you want my diagnosis before or after you start?:D

Obelisk

Calibos wrote: »

Obelisk wrote: »

I'm not religious. I wouldnt be so arrogant to think I have figured it all out but if pushed on your question I would have to give you a yes!



Are you sure you are ready for this?

Do you want my diagnosis before or after you start?:D

Why, are you some kind of doctor or something?

housetypeb

Obelisk wrote: »

I'm not religious. I wouldnt be so arrogant to think I have figured it all out but if pushed on your question I would have to give you a yes!



Are you sure you are ready for this?

I'm ready. Let the revelation according to Obelisk (pbuh)begin.

Obelisk

housetypeb wrote: »

I'm ready. Let the revelation according to Obelisk (pbuh)begin.

In past times one would have to prove themselves a worthy initiate for access to such knowledge...

But alas, as I have no master, have taken no oaths and you did ask me respectfully I shall begin to reveal

Here is a taster;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAp9k8rzQDw

housetypeb

I ready for the main course now, the mushroom was a nice starter.

Obelisk

Slow down good sir! Digest this first;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Es5yBwOrLS0

Another aperitif, a morsel of the evidence lets say :cool:

housetypeb

Dare i ask what's for dessert?
I do! I do!
May i have dessert now.
No, no need to look at the menu.
Surprise me.

Obelisk

Desert is being prepared but lets get the main courses out of the way first

There are 2 choices on the menu for today-

Option 1:

I'm going to recommend this as I have only seen it lately. Covers christianity in good detail. A whole lot of detail actually! (3.5 hours)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5zGRzz_5YA

Option 2:

This is a very good documentary. It's shorter than the above, covers all of the entheogens and covers more religions and cultures. O yesh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJOFHYTvI88

Obelisk

As promised here is desert!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_v2mgOzZxS0

Akrasia

since when does posting youtube links count as coherent argument?

Obelisk

Akrasia wrote: »

since when does posting youtube links count as coherent argument?

Who said I was looking for an argument?

Temptamperu

The truth of the matter is, there is a god and I am he, made mortal too punish you humans for your sins against one another.

No I wont be preforming circus tricks this time and i dont have a beard but i shall smite you all. ALL OF YOU!!