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Is religion a farce?

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    #242
    Dave!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,857 ✭✭✭✭Dave!


    CorkMan wrote: »
    It's up to God if atheists go to hell or not, so I won't try to sway his judgement.
    We're all very relieved -- I'm sure you can be very persuasive when you want to be.


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    #243
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    Freddie59 wrote: »
    Suicide - personal choice (albeit a very sad one).

    Famine - caused in a lot of instances by despots who don't give a fiddler about their own people.

    War - unfortunately it has to be fought to keep certain scum down.

    Free will.

    Suicide - When someone feels they have no other choice.

    Famine - Usually caused by climatic conditions and then used by "despots" for their own reasons.

    War - Because some people think other people are scum.

    Free will - used as an excuse by the religious for all the above.

    I just want to add to your comment on war.
    So you think the Russian people were scum that needed cleansing in the 1940's in the German war of aggression, or that the Boers of South Africa needed putting in their place by the British, were you happy to see the Tutsi "scum" murdered en mass in Rwanda.


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    #244
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    CorkMan wrote: »
    Can atheists please respect Christians beliefs? Don't refer to God as "the sky wizard" and Jesus Christ as "Jaysis" or any other deprecatory names.
    How about calling your Insecure, Militant, Jealous, Homophobic, Genocidal deity evil, is that allowed?


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    #245
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Suicide - When someone feels they have no other choice.

    Famine - Usually caused by climatic conditions and then used by "despots" for their own reasons.

    War - Because some people think other people are scum.

    Free will - used as an excuse by the religious for all the above.

    I just want to add to your comment on war.
    So you think the Russian people were scum that needed cleansing in the 1940's in the German war of aggression, or that the Boers of South Africa needed putting in their place by the British, were you happy to see the Tutsi "scum" murdered en mass in Rwanda.
    Lets not forget the millions of people the Pope of Rome and the Roman Catholic church have killed. Good example.


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    #246
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Lets not forget the millions of people the Pope of Rome and the Roman Catholic church have killed. Good example.
    Would you be including those killed by your beloved king billy in those millions?
    It is not me who celebrates one of these wars sanctioned by the pope every year now is it.


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    #247
    Pompey Magnus
    Registered Users Posts: 5,406 ✭✭✭Pompey Magnus


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Would you be including those killed by your beloved king billy in those millions?

    Well King Billy was in the pay of his ally, Pope Innocent XI, so I assume he is indeed including them.


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    #248
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    Pompey Magnus wrote: »
    Well King Billy was in the pay of his ally, Pope Innocent XI, so I assume he is indeed including them.
    Indeed and he celebrates this with gusto every year.


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    #249
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Would you be including those killed by your beloved king billy in those millions?
    It is not me who celebrates one of these wars sanctioned by the pope every year now is it.
    Aye but we are talking about religion. I thought that was a good example.


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    #250
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Balloon Of a fish in C. wrote: »
    I like to think that we all believe in something good is out there ,religion is merely a word that discribes it.

    Only if you have compiled your own dictionary


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    #251
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Derek! wrote: »
    It means I dont believe there's any god, it's all very far fetched for me.
    People can obviously make up their own minds though.
    Derek! wrote: »
    I'm an Atheist, that tells you what I think of religion

    Not believing in god has nothing to do with how you feel about religion. You could not believe in god and think religion is wonderful.


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    #252
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Aye but we are talking about religion. I thought that was a good example.
    We are, it was, and it is quite sad that some people actually celebrate such things.


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    #253
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    We are, it was, and it is quite sad that some people actually celebrate such things.
    Not really. But we will agree to disagree.


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    #254
    Balloon Of a fish in C.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Balloon Of a fish in C.


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    Only if you have compiled your own dictionary

    There are career criminals ,biggots and fiends who hide behind all religions ,but a dictionary won't tell you that.


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    #255
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    Not really. But we will agree to disagree.
    I must have miss-read your original post, I thought you meant "not forget the millions" in a negative way, ie it was wrong of the church, I didn't realise you meant we should remember these papal sanctioned deaths in a positive way (like you do every July).


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    #256
    Stargazer7
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Stargazer7


    doovdela wrote: »
    Ya. I find I believe in scientific facts more so than religion itself. Science is more real! See it to believe it is my motto in this case!

    You don't believe in gravity? Or oxygen? :P

    I'm a physics graduate and love all things sciencey but my view would be I don't believe in God, but if it's proved to me in some sort of factual way rather than the "believe it cos we say so" way. I don't think you're a scientist in the real sense unless you allow for that possibility. Think of all the crazy **** science has proved - quantum mechanics, general relativity etc. etc.


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    #257
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    I must have miss-read your original post, I thought you meant "not forget the millions" in a negative way, ie it was wrong of the church, I didn't realise you meant we should remember these papal sanctioned deaths in a positive way (like you do every July).
    I think people remember in different ways. Same with any conflicts. I think the general tone of the thread on Atheists in regards to religion are ignoring the Soviet Union which was one of the most brutal regimes.


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    #258
    Stargazer7
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Stargazer7


    CorkMan wrote: »
    It's up to God if atheists go to hell or not, so I won't try to sway his judgement.

    How big of you, I'm sure God will be proud.

    Why are some religious people so obsessed with others being proved wrong and punished for it. I'm an atheist because no matter how much I try I just can't logically or rationally see any reason why he exists or that religion is real. To me it seems a very clear kneejerk by humans facing their own mortality. But I don't spend my time hoping that religious people are really disappointed when heaven doesn't turn out to exist. If god does exist, and I meet him, then I'll be humble and say I tried to believe but I wasn't convinced. I still tried to live my life as best as possible, without hating because some book tells me to.


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    #259
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Balloon Of a fish in C. wrote: »
    There are career criminals ,biggots and fiends who hide behind all religions ,but a dictionary won't tell you that.
    Balloon Of a fish in C. wrote: »
    I like to think that we all believe in something good is out there ,religion is merely a word that discribes it.

    I think we are mis understanding each other. You say that religion is a word to describe 'something good out there'. It isnt. . I think you mean "God"


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    #260
    Balloon Of a fish in C.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Balloon Of a fish in C.


    There are a few newer christianity driven groups ,who believe that once they are "baptised" they can do no wrong.

    I have first hand experience of this and it's worrying how it affects people ,I'd actually consider it brainwashing


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    #261
    Stargazer7
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Stargazer7


    Balloon Of a fish in C. wrote: »
    There are a few newer christianity driven groups ,who believe that once they are "baptised" they can do no wrong.

    I have first hand experience of this and it's worrying how it affects people ,I'd actually consider it brainwashing

    I think religion should be treated like politics - most parents leave it up to their kids to decide when their older. Granted there are some families who put pressure on to be a Shinner or Fine Gaeler but usually it doesn't involve actively voting on their behalf. In a way I feel like baptising a child is like that - making the choice for the kid. I know it can be a pain in the ass when it comes to getting into a school but that, if anything, makes me feel more resolute when it comes to it. I don't like the idea of my child being bullied into a religion.


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    #262
    Balloon Of a fish in C.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Balloon Of a fish in C.


    Ghost Buster wrote: »
    I think you mean "God"

    No ,God is a word that describes something that we are brought up to believe in some form.
    I believe that there is something that drives the universe ,but I
    don't know what it is.
    Yet I still respect people who have beliefs different to mine.


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    #263
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I think people remember in different ways. Same with any conflicts. I think the general tone of the thread on Atheists in regards to religion are ignoring the Soviet Union which was one of the most brutal regimes.
    ROFL.......At your attempt to change the subject.
    So the Pope sanctioning millions of deaths over the centuries wasn't all bad, it all depends on your perspective, that is very interesting coming from you Keith.


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    #264
    Balloon Of a fish in C.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 74 ✭✭Balloon Of a fish in C.


    Stargazer7 wrote: »
    I think religion should be treated like politics - most parents leave it up to their kids to decide when their older. Granted there are some families who put pressure on to be a Shinner or Fine Gaeler but usually it doesn't involve actively voting on their behalf. In a way I feel like baptising a child is like that - making the choice for the kid. I know it can be a pain in the ass when it comes to getting into a school but that, if anything, makes me feel more resolute when it comes to it. I don't like the idea of my child being bullied into a religion.

    The whole school thing is terrible for parents and kids ,hypocritical.
    The newer groups seem to prey on people who are weak though and extort monies etc. It's actually a form of cult in some circles.


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    #265
    Stargazer7
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Stargazer7


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I think people should be allowed to express themselves. If Atheists don't like Jesus, so be it.

    Thing is, I think most atheists (can't speak for all of them but this is my hunch) think Jesus is bloody brilliant - he was compassionate, kind, understanding, humble etc. etc. The way he treated Mary Magdelene gives me the impression that he wouldn't have been encouraging homophobia if he were around today. The core teaching to "love one another" and treat "others as you wish to be treated" are such simple and beautiful ideas. I think atheists have issues with all of the rest of the stuff that comes with structured religions.


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    #266
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    ROFL.......At your attempt to change the subject.
    So the Pope sanctioning millions of deaths over the centuries wasn't all bad, it all depends on your perspective, that is very interesting coming from you Keith.
    I think we all understand that. It does not mean people can't disagree with the Catholic Church. Perhaps he should be seen as a hero to Catholics. But that is a different argument for a different thread perhaps.


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    #267
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    Balloon Of a fish in C. wrote: »
    No ,God is a word that describes something that we are brought up to believe in some form.
    I believe that there is something that drives the universe ,but I
    don't know what it is.
    Yet I still respect people who have beliefs different to mine.

    So ummmm God is something 'out there' that we are brought up to believe in.
    Religion is a man made construct of beliefs and rituals.
    So which is it. How do you define 'religion'?????


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    #268
    Stargazer7
    Registered Users Posts: 374 ✭✭Stargazer7


    Balloon Of a fish in C. wrote: »
    The whole school thing is terrible for parents and kids ,hypocritical.
    The newer groups seem to prey on people who are weak though and extort monies etc. It's actually a form of cult in some circles.

    That's why I'm so for proper separation of church and state. It's discriminatory that I have to say that I'm catholic to train in St. Pats. I know it runs under a Catholic ethos but besides Mary I, are there a few or even any other teacher training colleges in Ireland?

    With the crap that the church has pulled in this country and other in the past century I don't want to be associated with it in my day to day life.


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    #269
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    Stargazer7 wrote: »
    Thing is, I think most atheists (can't speak for all of them but this is my hunch) think Jesus is bloody brilliant - he was compassionate, kind, understanding, humble etc. etc. The way he treated Mary Magdelene gives me the impression that he wouldn't have been encouraging homophobia if he were around today. The core teaching to "love one another" and treat "others as you wish to be treated" are such simple and beautiful ideas. I think atheists have issues with all of the rest of the stuff that comes with structured religions.
    True. I think many Christians do follow the words of Jesus and his examples more than perhaps anything else. So why the mocking of his name in this thread is beyond me if what you say is true and we pretty much agree on that. But then I support the right of people to express that view.


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    #270
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    I think we all understand that. It does not mean people can't disagree with the Catholic Church. Perhaps he should be seen as a hero to Catholics. But that is a different argument for a different thread perhaps.
    Perhaps the pope should be seen as a hero to you, as he gave sanction to your saviour, without whom you and your people might not be living on the fair isle of Éireann.


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    #271
    Ghost Buster
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,172 ✭✭✭Ghost Buster


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    True. I think many Christians do follow the words of Jesus and his examples more than perhaps anything else. So why the mocking of his name in this thread is beyond me if what you say is true and we pretty much agree on that. But then I support the right of people to express that view.

    I cannot find any posts mocking of jesus' name in this thread. Can you show one please.


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