Download Illegally? You're no better than the looters.

CiaranC

black francis wrote: »

You're right there are already cars.
And the cars from 40,30,20 years ago are the exact same as the cars we have today - right?

Well no actually, they're not - a continuous demand for cars has lead to evolution in the industry. Remove that demand and the evolution ends. This is the natural order.
Still your 2011 Ferrari will do you fine – until the oil runs out of course. Still I’m sure we’ll come up with an alternative means of powering your Ferrari – now what did we do with that motor industry again?

Industry and human progress will no doubt grind to a halt, just like it has every other time technology made an industry obsolete. We better enshrine Westlifes right top make millions pumping out ****e in law to save ourselves from doooooom.

Ray Palmer

Copyright laws have to change and distribution charges have got to be removed from the pricing.

Effectively large companies are fleecing both copyright owners and purchasers. I see it as civil disobedience. It is not as simple as stealing due to the fact we are being overcharged for distribution. The game has changed and big companies are trying to retain and artificial profit margin.

Part of the attempted change

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-14556104

Frank Black

CiaranC wrote: »

Industry and human progress will no doubt grind to a halt, just like it has every other time technology made an industry obsolete. We better enshrine Westlifes right top make millions pumping out ****e in law to save ourselves from doooooom.

I can see why you might think that, but usually the technology that makes an industry obsolete replaces said same industry with something better.

This is one of those rare cases where the technology exists to wipe out the industry but will leave nothing in its place.

jill_valentine

Nothing in it's place? It's cheaper and easier to make and distribute your music than it has ever been in recorded history. And as far as I can see, more folks are doing it now than ever before. That, too, is why the big labels are hurting - they no longer have the monopoly that they used to use to keep artists beholden to them.

jill_valentine

It's not "stealing" in the same way it's not "embezzling", "mountaineering" or "cyling". It's the wrong word for the act, regardless of how you feel about it.

Frank Black

jill_valentine wrote: »

Nothing in it's place? It's cheaper and easier to make and distribute your music than it has ever been in recorded history. And as far as I can see, more folks are doing it now than ever before. That, too, is why the big labels are hurting - they no longer have the monopoly that they used to use to keep artists beholden to them.

In my view the genie is out of the bottle and it really doesn't matter whether I think it's 'stealing' or not. There's a whole generation of (mostly) young people, the consumers of tomorrow if you will, to whom the idea of paying for something like a movie, an album or a book is an entirely foreign concept - whether this is 'good' or 'bad' thing, I'd imagine we'll find out in a decade or two - we can meet back here on this thread to discuss in 2035.

I suspect some kind of subscription based service will have to be introduced - but who can say if this will work.

It's all very well saying that bands can distribute music easier than ever before, build up a following and make money touring, but it doesn't work that way for authors and actors.

Anyway, I think I've posted enough in this thread to make my views clear and run the risk of repeating myself if I continue to argue the point.

Time to sign off.

Ray Palmer

black francis wrote: »

I can see why you might think that, but usually the technology that makes an industry obsolete replaces said same industry with something better.

This is one of those rare cases where the technology exists to wipe out the industry but will leave nothing in its place.

I think the very stance the current industry is taking is causing the situation for the industry to die. It isn't dissimilar to what the taxi drivers in Ireland did. They ate up all support by being pigheaded rather than negotiated.
Copyright law has to move on but instead they have increased the length.

briany

I suspect some kind of subscription based service will have to be introduced - but who can say if this will work.

The thing is, any tangible payment may be enough to turn off to a sizable proportion of people. A fully fledged ad supported social networking platform based around users sharing their musical tastes would be a good move even though there are various incarnations of this very idea around right now. However, by providing the greatest amount of choice yet, they (the major labels) could find a dominant position in this marketplace, keeping a limit on the audio quality of the shared music up to MP3 320 Kbit. Integrate this with iTunes as well if users wish to purchase FLAC digital copies and also links to buy the physical media, pushing the benefits of the whole album experience.

mcgarry098

have you never been to the cinema,............. the ads clearly state its theft LOL ,... more like itunes are the ones robbing us, not us robbing them. 2euro for a song=robbery

DjFlin

I'd be all for a subscription service.

In the states Microsoft have the Zune Pass, where you pay $10 a month, and you get unlimited songs, plus you get 10 song credits per month, in case you decide to leave.

If that was introduced here, I'd never pirate again.

DjFlin

I'd be all for a subscription service.

In the states Microsoft have the Zune Pass, where you pay $10 a month, and you get unlimited songs, plus you get 10 song credits per month, in case you decide to leave.

If that was introduced here, I'd never pirate again.

iguana

jill_valentine wrote: »

Nothing in it's place? It's cheaper and easier to make and distribute your music than it has ever been in recorded history. And as far as I can see, more folks are doing it now than ever before. That, too, is why the big labels are hurting - they no longer have the monopoly that they used to use to keep artists beholden to them.

And how will authors, animators, directors, 1st assistant directors, 2nd assistant directors, 3rd assistant directors, pa to the director, producers, assistant producers, screenwriters, actors, best boys, grips, editors, vfx editors, 1st assistant editors, 2nd assistant editors, trainee editors, assistant vfx editors, trainee assistant vfx editors, directors of photography, assistant directors of photography, unit drivers, locations managers, assistant locations managers, wardrobe designers, assistant wardrobe designers, hair and make up people, set designers, assistant set designers, legal team, camera operators, assistant camera operators, clapper-loaders, sound editors, 1st assistant sound editors, 2nd assistant sound editors, trainee sound editors, etc, etc, etc make a living?

People don't just download music. Pirating in itself is not necessarily a bad thing and as anyone who has looked into it knows, at present many artists do better by having a larger audience. However there has to be a way of generating an income from the work. If we reach a point where nobody will pay anything for art then the production of art will decrease dramatically, especially movies and television. And what we do get will be painfully overloaded with product placements, so much more so than they are today.

Downlinz

I dissaprove of the rioting and looting

Its west brit nonsense like this that infuriates me. Is the UK that important to you that when rioting occurs there it becomes the definitive to you? Nob

Geekness1234

That subscription service from microsoft sounds deadly!

JJJJNR

Rabidlamb wrote: »

Might have been the case years ago when people were downloading rar files & keygens for games from unreliable sources.
There is a short enough learning curve to avoid all these pitfalls nowadays.
Plus the Anti-virus, firewalls, anti-malware & improved Windows security means even the worst hack can't do too much damage.

Not exactly true, more and more malware are coming in the form of rootkits which even though the AV says it can detect, it really can't.

Do a google search for TDL4

DjFlin

Geekness1234 wrote: »

That subscription service from microsoft sounds deadly!

Yup, its available in the UK and some parts of Europe too, although I dont think they get the song credits.

I had a 14 day trial of it (Using an American account), and it was great. It recommends music based on what you listen to, and has "Channels" which are basically smart playlists made for custom topics/genres, so you've got "RocknRoll Channel/Gym Channel/etc

Geekness1234

Microsoft 1-0 itunes.

noxqs

First of all:

When the studios want to segment the world into these regions and tell me what I can watch/listen to, when and how, and even have the daring to tell me to stick my money up my ass if I do try to pay for it (Not available in Ireland etc). I just go and download it. **** those little MBA pricks who thinks market segmentation works on the god damn internet. **** them, **** them all.

I rent tons of movies on Apple TV/iTunes store. Literally almost every day. I buy tons of albums on iTunes. But they wont let me rent the series as I am in Ireland ? I gotta watch **** on TV a year behind? Well **** that, the internet giveth and I taketh.

I would pay, but they don't want my money or they want to stick some nasty DRM on my files? So It can only run on Windows or require some stupid program I dont like and wont work on any device I can think of? Well why do pirate copies come with no such issues? Jesus just sell me the damn file I am more than willing.

They even charge more for HD stuff? What? **** off its just more bits it can't possibly cost more money (maybe a fraction of a fraction of a cent?).

If I could buy TV shows on iTunes my pirating days would be definitely over. But alas, I cant. So to the piratebay I go.

jill_valentine

iguana wrote: »

And how will authors, animators, directors, 1st assistant directors, 2nd assistant directors, 3rd assistant directors, pa to the director, producers, assistant producers, screenwriters, actors, best boys, grips, editors, vfx editors, 1st assistant editors, 2nd assistant editors, trainee editors, assistant vfx editors, trainee assistant vfx editors, directors of photography, assistant directors of photography, unit drivers, locations managers, assistant locations managers, wardrobe designers, assistant wardrobe designers, hair and make up people, set designers, assistant set designers, legal team, camera operators, assistant camera operators, clapper-loaders, sound editors, 1st assistant sound editors, 2nd assistant sound editors, trainee sound editors, etc, etc, etc make a living?

I see your point, and to be fair, yeah, maybe I'm a bit too rooted in the music point of view - but then again, what of the Farriers, Coopers, Thatchers and Cartwrights? Industries leave people behind all the time. It sucks, but it's inevitable.

theneed2rock

black francis wrote: »

I presume that most of the stuff looted is covered by insurance wheras illegally downloaded items aren't - so you could argue that illigal downloading is worse than looting.

God you're so right...i should stopped by my downloading now and go out a smash into the nearest currys and grab a plasma for myself. Idiot

iguana

jill_valentine wrote: »

but then again, what of the Farriers, Coopers, Thatchers and Cartwrights? Industries leave people behind all the time. It sucks, but it's inevitable.

Huh? I think you missed the point. Movies can not be made without large crews, nothing to do with the crews needing work. If you can't pay the crew you can't make a movie. Even a half hour tv show, as straightforward and cheap as Hollyoaks, costs a 5 figure sum per episode to produce. Tv and film can only be made because they generate a profit. Even the likes of the BBC and PBS need their flagship shows to sell abroad to continue making them and finance their loss makers.

It's very simple, if tv and film stop making a profit, they stop getting made.

cursai

Never mind all the morality s:'(? )#. I got a movie for free. Nobody got injured or was robbed of till money. (Only expected financial loss). STOP Comparing downloading to theft cause its pathetic.

I spoke to yet man who runs Hollywood and he told me not to worry about it cause they make plenty if dish from the eejits who can't operate utorrent and the Americans who never heard of it.

jill_valentine

iguana wrote: »

Huh? I think you missed the point. Movies can not be made without large crews, nothing to do with the crews needing work. If you can't pay the crew you can't make a movie. Even a half hour tv show, as straightforward and cheap as Hollyoaks, costs a 5 figure sum per episode to produce. Tv and film can only be made because they generate a profit. Even the likes of the BBC and PBS need their flagship shows to sell abroad to continue making them and finance their loss makers.

It's very simple, if tv and film stop making a profit, they stop getting made.

I get you now. Fair point, TV and film is a very different ecosystem, and one I can't comment on with any authority or confidence.

cursai

What are ye worried about anyway. The Guard isn't even out for downloading. I'm. Sure there's a couple of shillings left to be made on it.

Fromthetrees

The law is an ass and must be ignored where one deems fit, before the internet I listened to a handful of bands and now I listen to hundreds, I spend more money on music now than ever before because of downloading for free, hows them apples, ffs what's next, paying for water and air.....gesh.....

LighterGuy

Fromthetrees wrote: »

...ffs what's next, paying for water and air.....gesh.....

paying for water is coming in. already in for many places in Ireland.
And as mental as it sounds, we will one day, be paying for air. :eek: Not in the sense of "you have a family of 5 so you consume ..." etc etc. But there was talk in the early 1990s about every home having to have a mandatory air filter system that would cost a few grand. To take effect in the early 2000s. Of course it never happened. None the less there was talk about it. Same talk will eventually pop up again :rolleyes:

Fromthetrees

Sorry I was unsuccessfully trying to be sarcastic as I know they're bringing in water metering in every household and any carbon tax is like a tax on the air.

c_man

For tv, I think the likes of 4od are the way to go. I prefer to watch a show there and put up with a few ads because it's a great service, and also it saves me some HD space :pac:

CiaranC

iguana wrote: »

It's very simple, if tv and film stop making a profit, they stop getting made.

So what?

gsxr1

gsxr1 wrote: »

i have 3 invites to a major private tracker.

Who wants one

1 gone.

alcomoholic

just downloaded super 8 720p perfect hd quality, 10 quid of mine jj abrams wont be getting and a great night sorted for the price of an internet connection

gsxr1

alcomoholic wrote: »

just downloaded super 8 720p perfect hd quality, 10 quid of mine jj abrams wont be getting and a great night sorted for the price of an internet connection

There is a Telly sync of Planet of the apes out there.

Rise of the Planet of the Apes 2011 TS READNFO XViD - IMAGiNE (NO RARS)

Its worth the watch. Its the best TS i have seen. Qualiity is as good as VHS anyways.

Great show.

Paarse Krokodil

I'd download physical objects if I could

consumerism is a load of cod's wollop, the recording industry has had its day as have many other industries.

Why should the record companies continue to enjoy the protection of the law? its simple. music is easy to replicate, music will continue to be made but the days of copying the same disc and selling millions for 20 quid each are gone.

The law isn't going to protect you when your job gets outspruced to China or done by a robot. These record companies are no different except that they have some outdated protectionist law on their side

mikemac

I wonder were we having the same debate when I was a young lad and taping the chart songs off the radio with my cassette recorder

And instead of buying compilations I'd spend an afternoon dubbing and making a mix tape
I guess that was piracy too

Ah good times

briany

mikemac wrote: »

I wonder were we having the same debate when I was a young lad and taping the chart songs off the radio with my cassette recorder

And instead of buying compilations I'd spend an afternoon dubbing and making a mix tape
I guess that was piracy too

Ah good times

It was a form of piracy as far as I understand it but not enough people were doing it for the music industry to really stand up, take notice of the ill effects and do something about it. And what could they have done? Anything they would have done on the broadcasting end would have been to the detriment of a hugely important platform to advertise their music. Anything to circumvent the recording technology end would have been an unprecedented coup. I think that they did go some way toward stemming the full impact of the cassette with the CD, though.

The same is true today. There are important avenues of advertising music on the internet that are essentially free to the end user like Youtube and internet radio, both streaming and on demand. People can figure out how to rip music off these platforms with minimal effort and have a decent quality copy. Decent enough for the purposes of listening anyway. People who might have once downloaded from Limewire could now go onto an artist's Vevo and extract an MP3 from that video. That's a video that has been uploaded by the label that owns the music. However, it would be foolish to think that the labels behind Vevo did not think users would try this and it's possible that the advertising revenue they gain from the videos is enough to make the venture viable regardless of what users do, so long as they are looking at Vevo.

jill_valentine

Vevo is a funny one. It has a lot of partnerships with Mastercard and whatever for livestreaming bigger concerts like The National and Lady Gaga and what have you, which is fine, but also has a load of madly annoying adverts at the start of any of their short length videos. In many cases I prefer to find an unofficial video uploaded by a fan - of the same quality, of the same video, and less likely to be arbitrarily withdrawn or region blocked to whoever I'm trying to show the damn thing.

It would make sense if they got the rights to stuff that's keenly copyright policed - like Grammy performances, or Conan/Daily Show/etc sets - but most of their content is really commonly available on the internet and the Vevo exclusive stuff seems to randomly vanish and reappear without any rhyme or reason at all.

LighterGuy

Downloading is illegal. Lets be honest. You can try to twist it into going into a debate of weather its stealing / copying / sharing etc etc etc. Its illegal at the end of the day.

I download. I admit to its illegal. I dont care. We all do it. One thing I dont acknowledge tho is when people try to twist it ... just call a spade a spade and say that when you downloaded that lastest movie or song, it was illegal, but you didnt give a f*ck. But I find most people wont do that.

I dont know weather its people just be hypocrites or just not wanting to be seen as "a bad guy"

DermotOH

I'm going to jump on the pirate bandwagon

wandatowell

Im currently making my way through 1001 Movies You Must Download Before You Die,

Drumpot

LighterGuy wrote: »

Downloading is illegal. Lets be honest. You can try to twist it into going into a debate of weather its stealing / copying / sharing etc etc etc. Its illegal at the end of the day.

I download. I admit to its illegal. I dont care. We all do it. One thing I dont acknowledge tho is when people try to twist it ... just call a spade a spade and say that when you downloaded that lastest movie or song, it was illegal, but you didnt give a f*ck. But I find most people wont do that.

I dont know weather its people just be hypocrites or just not wanting to be seen as "a bad guy"

Agreed . .

Really and truely, who gives a f**k?

There has been an economic collapse of Western economics thats plaguing millions and millions of families and making their lives a misery and somebody thinks that our government should spend more then 10 seconds of their time worrying about sorting out movie piracy ?. .

I am not condoning piracy, I am simply saying its no wonder this world, not just our country is in such a state when people actually get upset about what I consider one of the most trivial crimes that can be comitted today . . If movie studios goes out of business people might actually spend more time living instead of glued to a box . .

As for the "your no better then the looters" comment . . I dont know of too many families that fear for their lives when people download movies and I dont know of many houses/buildings destroyed in the process of doing it . . But if you think that both crimes are comparable, then I just hope you never get into a position to change the laws in any country I ever visit!

seanybiker

I blame system of a down.
I never downloaded anything until I got their album and now I'm hooked.


For the people who don't like good music the album is called " steal this album"
Sure aren't they only in it for the music anyways.
I also believe the great man dave ghrol said before he wants people to listen to his music and if that means downloading it then so be it. Kid rock said he has made enough money already so isn't really bothered about downloading.
The rest of the bands are just ghey

jill_valentine

Nobody's contesting it's illegal though, are they? The argument is over whether it's moral or not, right?

seanybiker

jill_valentine wrote: »

Nobody's contesting it's illegal though, are they? The argument is over whether it's moral or not, right?

Depends on what answer we give. If we say its not immoral someone will say its illegal though and vice versa.

briany

seanybiker wrote: »

Depends on what answer we give. If we say its not immoral someone will say its illegal though and vice versa.

A moral argument would just go around in circles. Lots of high horsing would be had. Well, it has been had already and not just here either but it's the same in every discussion about this topic that I come across. Copyright infringement IS illegal but the collective entertainment industry has unfortunately missed the do something meaningful about it boat by about 12 years.

The sad thing is that it seems that the infringers are sometimes putting out a better product than the EI for no cost. I can watch an episode of the Young Ones on Youtube/streaming website straight through and uninterrupted. Try to do that on UK gold and you will be treated to a twenty minute program buffered by three 5 minute plus ad breaks plus the ad breaks before and after, the intrusive channel bug in the corner, the occasional scrolling ad along the bottom of the screen and the customary credit squeeze. Total running time : 45 minutes. That's what you get there for the monthly fee. I would make a sarcastic comment about this but I think it looks ridiculous enough by itself.

Streaming/downloading music is the new radio and streaming downloading movies/shows is the new TV. Best to try to work hand in hand with it now or face resorting to some seriously seriously draconian measures to try and stop the tide. Suing potential customers or even sending them to jail is not really a feasible option because there are actual dangerous people that need to be put away and only so much space to put them in.

*Imagines Knock-off Nigel in prison*

Drumpot

seanybiker wrote: »

Depends on what answer we give. If we say its not immoral someone will say its illegal though and vice versa.

Just because something is legal, doesnt make it a moral act . .

Would people class the supposed legal (note used very loosely to make a point! )actions of certain people/institutions in the banking collapse as morally upstanding ?

Capt'n Midnight

DermotOH wrote: »

I'm going to jump on the pirate bandwagon

I once knew a pirate opera singer.

He was murdered on the high C's :pac: