smacking children.

greengirl31

I am not a believer in smacking children and I've always said it's not an effective form of discipline and that it teaches the child nothing ... However, the over the last few weeks there has been issues at bedtime in our house - as soon as its mentioned. my normally very good 3.5yr old starts kicking off - Big Time. I've done the reward chards, Naughty Corner, ignoring bad behaviour all the usual reasonable parenting things. The other night though, it was taken to a new level... as I led her to the naughty step she was hitting me !!! I told her to stop cause she was hurting me. She ran away from the naughty corner as soon as my back was turned and went to Hide - thinking that this "game" was Hilarious. Anyway, on the 5th trip back to the corner, she got a smack on her hand !!! She got such a shock and the guilt struck me at the same time. Now I realise that I'm the adult and when a parent resorts to slapping that it's more from frustration than anything else. I will admit that that wasn't my finest parenting moment and will also admit to being judgemental about others slapping their children - yet now I understand why. It's not something I plan to repeat but at that time I just didn't know what else to do ...

KingIsabella

I wouldn't like to witness it, but i know it didn't do me any harm. There's a fine fine line between abuse and light smacking. There's too much bull attached to everything these days. The slightest thing anyone does will be critised by SOMEONE who has a problem with it and there's so much hype attached to what you can and can't do and the repurcussions if someone else doesnt agree with you, but personally, i dont think ill smack when i have children, but i do know it definitly didn't do me any harm. Again a fine line between abuse and light smacking.


I remember for a few weeks my mother once resorted to non stop tickling me instead of light smacks when i was out of order.......worst few weeks of my life. I remember those weeks more than any light smack. Horrible horrible tactic...

....well played mother....

Mc Kenzie

nesf wrote: »

You don't know the context of the situation and as such are not in a good position to judge whether it did more harm than good.*

*Unless you are one of those people who think a slap always does more harm than good, in which case I won't bother wasting my time arguing with you as we'll never agree.

actually im just saying from my experience, i think it did, so i do really think im in a position to give an opinion about myself!!!:rolleyes:

RedXIV

RedXIV wrote: »

Really? There was one here a little while ago about a grandmother who slapped a childs hand away as he went to reach at a hot stove. Is that wrong?

Yes. If you have time to reach out to slap a child's hand, you have time to reach out to catch his arm. The "safety" argument doesn't wash.

RedXIV wrote: »

If the child can't understand the obvious danger of placing a hand on red hot metal but understands the threat of a smack if he tries, is that not preferable?

No, it's not preferable, because those aren't the logical choices. Remember that our objective should be to teach the child to avoid the danger of the hot metal - not to make the child fearful of a slap from an adult.

RedXIV wrote: »

I remember my little sister being fascinated by the fire when we were kids and used to try to get at it constantly until she got a smack one day for trying. Reasoning hadn't worked there but a smack did. Is that wrong?

Yes, it's wrong, because once again those aren't the logical choices.


Sorry, but this is blindingly simple stuff. Hitting a child gets immediate short-term results, but the long-term effects are often negative and damaging. Hitting a child is almost always the result of short-term and over-emotional reaction on the part of the adult doing the hitting. In fact, if we were being honest, we wouldn't say that we hit children because we can't reason with them - we'd say we hit children because we haven't the patience to reason with ourselves.

And though we don't like to admit it, one of the reasons we have trouble managing our own emotional over-reaction and our anger is that we were hit as children. I wonder how many people who slap their children were slapped by their parents? And how many weren't?

RedXIV

Deleted User wrote: »

Hitting a child gets immediate short-term results, but the long-term effects are often negative and damaging.

You'll have to forgive me here but as a child who received, well deserved, smacks as a child, I'd have to disagree that that I've negative and damaging long-term effects. Its probably one of those "we'll agree to disagree" moments

Deleted User wrote: »

And though we don't like to admit it, one of the reasons we have trouble managing our own emotional over-reaction and our anger is that we were hit as children. I wonder how many people who slap their children were slapped by their parents? And how many weren't?

I have a memory of this when I was in school where a religion teacher asked how many of us were smacked as a child, rather interestingly, the over achievers and respectful children raised their hands bar one, and the disruptive students didn't. That always stuck with me even if its too small a sample size (25-27 maybe?)

I've had this argument several times, and while I can usually agree to disagree with people's parenting style, I do tend to get stubborn when people start criticising my parents who in my mind provided me with a fantastic childhood even if I did receive a few smacks.

Nanazolie

RedXIV wrote: »

I've had this argument several times, and while I can usually agree to disagree with people's parenting style, I do tend to get stubborn when people start criticising my parents who in my mind provided me with a fantastic childhood even if I did receive a few smacks.

As I said before, my parents, who gave us a few smacks were very good parents IMO. So were my parents in law who raised their 4 kids without a smack. There is a widespread opinion that kids who are not smacked are not disciplined at all. But you can find plenty of counter examples, kids who are very well behaved and never receive a smack or others who receive more than they actually deserve and grow up into untamed adults. As it stands, my kids, 18 months and 3.5 years are very polite and although mischevious at times and testy, they are good kids and no one ever complained about them.
Smacking doesn't really teach something, unless you follow up with an explanation. But in most cases, a parent gives a smack because they are at the end of their teether and a 10000th explanation just seems useless. A child will need to be repeated the same things many times over, so if you expect the child to do something (or stop doing something) after just a few times, you will eventually loose your patience.

In fairness, there are many, many times when I think it would just be easier to give a smack than repeating for the Xth time the same thing. Or times when I am so exhausted I want to leave the kids at home and close the door behind me. Or some kids I see on the street and think "they really deserve a good bashing to teach them" (incidentally, a lot of adults too, but they are much bigger than me ).
I'm very lucky that my husband takes over when he sees I am on the verge of loosing it. Or that my kids are at the creche and they learn an awful lot about good manners and social life there. I think that if I had them 24/7 it might change my opinion, and I certainly don't judge people for smacking because I don't know their personal circumstances.

RedXIV

RedXIV wrote: »

You'll have to forgive me here but as a child who received, well deserved, smacks as a child, I'd have to disagree that that I've negative and damaging long-term effects. Its probably one of those "we'll agree to disagree" moments

I'll tell you what. If you can prove to me beyond reasonable doubt that you're a better, more well-adjusted and happier person than you would have been if your parents had disciplined you instead of hitting you, fair enough. Otherwise, I'll just have to "agree to disagree" with your wrong viewpoint.

RedXIV wrote: »

I do tend to get stubborn when people start criticising my parents who in my mind provided me with a fantastic childhood even if I did receive a few smacks.

I wouldn't criticise them - I've never met them. It's just tempting to wonder if they could have provided you with a better childhood by not slapping you.

Nanazolie

Nanazolie wrote: »

(incidentally, a lot of adults too, but they are much bigger than me ).

Now there's a thought.

One of my female relations is dreadful for texting or calling on her mobile and not watching where she's walking. Several times, we've had to physically stop her from walking on to the road while doing this. All of us have argued with her about this, some of us several times. I've said this to her at least 2 or 3 times since Christmas. But she carries on blithely and just won't listen to reason from any of us.

Would it help if one of the lads - say me, or perhaps her husband - gave her a slap?

Groinshot

I'm under 25, and was smacked as a child, but never beaten. If I was told not to do something, and I did it, I was given out to. If I'm told I'm grounded, what happens if I refuse to do that too? I remember sneaking out when I was grounded, for being a litle ******, and getting a smack for it, and I'll tell you I never did it again. I was also never in a fight in school, and am not a violent person...

RedXIV

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll tell you what. If you can prove to me beyond reasonable doubt that you're a better, more well-adjusted and happier person than you would have been if your parents had disciplined you instead of hitting you, fair enough. Otherwise, I'll just have to "agree to disagree" with your wrong viewpoint.

Touché!

Deleted User wrote: »

I wouldn't criticise them - I've never met them. It's just tempting to wonder if they could have provided you with a better childhood by not slapping you.

Could be the rose tinted glasses here but I'd say no

Deleted User wrote: »

Now there's a thought.

One of my female relations is dreadful for texting or calling on her mobile and not watching where she's walking. Several times, we've had to physically stop her from walking on to the road while doing this. All of us have argued with her about this, some of us several times. I've said this to her at least 2 or 3 times since Christmas. But she carries on blithely and just won't listen to reason from any of us.

Would it help if one of the lads - say me, or perhaps her husband - gave her a slap?

See now this is interesting. Lets take for example a person who texts and drives. She does this all time, regardless of the fact people are pulling her up on it and the awareness campaign is everywhere. Do you think after a car crash she might get the message?

I know someone who did this and from my (possibly warped) point of view, the physical chastisement is what worked.

Similarly, if your relation walks into a pole or similar do you not think she will learn from it? Its one thing for someone to tell you not to do something but when you suffer the consequences, surely thats the strongest lesson?

Ayla

Mc Kenzie wrote: »

...i heard a wird whale of a sound from the toilet that drowned out some girls chatting. it was a child crying and the next thing i heard was a slap and the cchilds cry again...i could still here the childs crying down the hall.

Let's go back to the OP. Whatever caused the parent/guardian to be so irked that they pulled the child into a public bathroom stall then hit the kid must've been pretty bad. This was not a case of the parent being afraid (ie: pulling the child away from a busy road or a hot burner). This situation was so bad that the adult took the time to remove the child from public view (but not public hearing) and hit them there. And considering the OP doesn't refer to any adult screaming, it's hard to imagine there was a verbal lesson being learned by the child.

We don't know how old the child was, or what the situation was. But if I was the OP I would have been sickened to leave the bathroom without making sure the kid was ok. I probably would've taken a *really* long time to wash my hands or arrange my bags so that I could wait until they come out from the stall, just to make sure the kid was alright. For all we know, maybe the adult was a regular hitter, or maybe they were a complete stranger to the child & were actually attacking the child under the guise of being a repremanding parent. We don't know, but the child's safety would be my only concern.

I know for a fact that if my parents were ever that mad at me & my siblings we would get "the look" which would freeze us dead in our tracks. We then dreaded the long drive home, fearing what would happen when we got there. Once home I remember some all-out screaming matches, but usually what happened was a subdued disappointment (aahhh, not that! I'd rather be yelled at then be disappointing! ) My parents kept a 1x1" timber behind the kitchen sink faucet, though, just to keep the fear of God in us, and I think in all our years it only moved a couple times.

JDD wrote: »

...I have to say I would be against a parent...smacking a child older than five...

So, sorry, but are you saying that you'd be ok with a parent smacking a toddler, but not a child who has reached the age when they can mentally comprehend and rationalise why the person they love & trust more than anyone else has hurt them?

cynder

Ayla wrote: »

So, sorry, but are you saying that you'd be ok with a parent smacking a toddler, but not a child who has reached the age when they can mentally comprehend and rationalise why the person they love & trust more than anyone else has hurt them?

A lot of 5 year olds can be reasoned with yet a toddler cant be reasoned with.


Going back to my 5 year old self, i was terrified to do something wrong in case my dad would smack me, so then i was a good girl (did nothing bold), did i love him at 5? NO, did i trust him at 5? YES, Did i respect him? YES Always! Do i love him now YES

I see far too many kids these days with no respect, this is down to lack of discipline/smacking (not beating a child, but a simple smack) the naughty step is nothing its not punishment its a time out time to think hey i can do this again and i will only have to sit here for a few mins, to me that sounds more like prison where a person thinks, i can murder this guy cause i dont like him and ill be out of prison in 5 years..... its just a little time out...... or they can think i will go steel from this house and if i get caught i will only have a max of 1 year in prison, its only a little time out!


Perhaps if some of those rioters in the uk were given a good boot up the bum they would have more respect for their neighbours and their community.

Magic Beans

I can see the merits of both sides of the smacking divide. Whatever you decide to do make sure you don't stray into harshness. I was beaten as a child and it has left a mark that has never gone away. To this day an unquenchable anger burns within me. I control it 99.99% of the time but there are times when I have reacted to situations much much more angrily than I should have. I regret it within seconds but it is too late then, somebody has usually been hurt. Don't do this to your children whatever you do.

EvesBlogg

dont think there is anything wrong with it, it should be a persons own choice. it is not ideal but in some circumstances i think its ok...constant beating, abusive hitting, and smacking a child for silly things isnt

RustyNut

grindelwald wrote: »

A lot of 5 year olds can be reasoned with yet a toddler cant be reasoned with.


Going back to my 5 year old self, i was terrified to do something wrong in case my dad would smack me, so then i was a good girl (did nothing bold), did i love him at 5? NO, did i trust him at 5? YES, Did i respect him? YES Always! Do i love him now YES

I see far too many kids these days with no respect, this is down to lack of discipline/smacking (not beating a child, but a simple smack) the naughty step is nothing its not punishment its a time out time to think hey i can do this again and i will only have to sit here for a few mins, to me that sounds more like prison where a person thinks, i can murder this guy cause i dont like him and ill be out of prison in 5 years..... its just a little time out...... or they can think i will go steel from this house and if i get caught i will only have a max of 1 year in prison, its only a little time out!


Perhaps if some of those rioters in the uk were given a good boot up the bum they would have more respect for their neighbours and their community.

That's right sure isn't mount joy full of people who were hugged cuddled and talked to too much. They needed a little respect beaten in to them, or maby.....

emo72

RustyNut wrote: »

That's right sure isn't mount joy full of people who were hugged cuddled and talked to too much. They needed a little respect slapped in to them, or maby.....

i think we get your point now, or maybe......:D

nesf

RustyNut, I just had to delete five posts of your's. Please don't do something like that again on here.

Da Shins Kelly

It depends on the situation. I don't think it is the first option for most parents, but there are some situations in which it is necessary, I think. For example, if a child repeatedly tries to put its hand on a hot iron, and won't listen to you when you ask them to stop, I think a smack on the hand is necessary. I was smacked occasionally as a child. It did me no harm, and I'm not a physically aggressive adult now as a result. Again, I would see it as a very last resort, and I think sometimes people are far too soft. There are some people who regard raising your voice to a child as too harsh. If smacking them is giving kids the wrong impression which may be bad for them in future, I think being too soft on them is also giving the wrong impression. At the end of the day, you cannot let your child walk all over you either, and I think people baby their children for far too long and wrap them up in cotton wool. I think that treatment is doing your child a greater disservice.

RustyNut

nesf wrote: »

RustyNut, I just had to delete five posts of your's. Please don't do something like that again on here.

Sorry iv no idea what happened.

CathyMoran

My mother hit me because she was in a bad mood which was a lot of the time. I find the idea of hitting a child horrific - there are other ways of encouraging good behavour in even young children.

Ayla

Grindlewad, I think the idea of not being able to rationalise with an under-5 yr old is just nuts. My toddler has known exactly what I've said to her since she was 12 months old...wether or not she decides to do what I've told/asked of her, she knows full well what I'm saying and when I say no it means no. I don't need to smack her to get that idea across. I have never struck either of my children (both under the age of 5) and they both know just where the line is.

A general thought for everyone....in my opinion, parents smack their child for 2 reasons: (1) out of fear (ie: kid about to be burned or walk onto road), or (2) the parent gets overwhelmed/frustrated or feels like there's no other option.

Now, in the second instance above, imagine for a second that you're having a crap day, the kids are driving you nuts, you've asked/threatened & pleaded for them to do the simplest thing & you're on your very last wit. Then a kid drops something important & it breaks...your last straw.

Understandable that a parent in this situation would lose control & lash out at the kid. But imagine for one second that you could freeze time, take a deep breath & cool off for 2 minutes. When you unfroze time & re-entered the situation, would you still hit the child? Or would it then seem like a violent act? Would you still feel it necessary to teach the child a lesson, or do you think it'd be possible to address the issue differently?

Ayla

grindelwald wrote: »

...to me that sounds more like prison where a person thinks, i can murder this guy cause i dont like him and ill be out of prison in 5 years..... its just a little time out...... or they can think i will go steel from this house and if i get caught i will only have a max of 1 year in prison, its only a little time out!

So would corporal punishment or torture be a more suitable punishment? "Cut off the arm that steals" kinda thing? An eye or an eye? Or would that be considered inhumane, cruel and against all sorts of human rights? Because, really, "time outs" and corporal punishment are the only options....

Funny, then, that we think time outs are the only humane option for adults but we look the other way when a child's getting a dose of corporal punishment :rolleyes:

And another thought, who would condone a man smacking a woman - even once & lightly? It would generally be seen as an abuse by the man of his physical strength & size, and most would encourage the woman to get out of the situation. I, for one, know that if my hubby hit me - even if it was only one time & even if he could justify that it was for my "own good" - I would never trust him again.

And what about people with special needs, or physical/mental disabilities? Should it be ok to give them a wee smack b/c we can't find a way of communicating, or because we're having an especially off day? What about if they're going to intentionally do something we've said 10000s of times not to do, would a smack to the bottom really help teach them?

Really, when you compare hitting a child to the examples above, all justifications for doing it become irrelevant & the act is exposed for what it really is - an abuse of power by an adult who just doesn't want to come up with another way to solve an issue.

Toots

We got smacked as kids, not leathered out of it or anything, just a smack on the bum or the hand. Now in fairness, this was usually when we'd done/were doing something really really bad and this was a last resort. It wouldn't so much be to inflict pain (it didn't really hurt) but it was usually if we were doing something and wouldn't stop it would be a kind of 'snap out of it' gesture. We'd sorta whinge about it the odd time, but honestly we'd usually cry more if we'd been given out to rather than getting a smack.

Often we'd get 'stop it now or you'll be smacked' and that was usually enough to let us know we were pushing it too far. TBH, I don't see anything wrong with the way my parents did it. We didn't find it distressing and it was rare that it'd happen so the punishment wasn't overused, which seems to be something a lot of parents do; the kid puts a toe out of line and the slaps get dealt out.

I think the main thing is there's a difference between a smack and a smack. What we got as kids was, looking back now, more of a very firm pat on the bum, I've seen people clapped on the back harder. I'll always remember in playschool, one of the other kids really didn't want to go in and her mum dragged her up the driveway shouting at her and smacking her the whole way in like "Get (smack) inside (smack) now (smack) and (smack) stop (smack) making (smack) a (smack) scene." Now this was in the 80s where smacking was normal, but I found it really upsetting to watch that and I remember looking at the other kids' faces and I could see they were upset too. Even the teacher looked horrified and the poor girl's leg was roaring red when she got in, so the mother was obviously putting some force behind the smacks. Looking back on it now, IMO that was abuse. I know the mother was angry and frustrated, but if you'd hit an adult the way she was hitting the child you'd be up for assault.

I don't think the smacking issue is all black and white at all, personally I'd see a tap on the hand or the bum on the rare occasion as harmless, however some people don't stop at that and it turns into disciplining the child through inducing fear of what's basically a beating.

nesf

Toots* wrote: »

I don't think the smacking issue is all black and white at all, personally I'd see a tap on the hand or the bum on the rare occasion as harmless, however some people don't stop at that and it turns into disciplining the child through inducing fear of what's basically a beating.

The main issue I have in these debates is that some people think if you condone smacking, you condone beating. Which is absurdly illogical but there you go. It's pretty much why I don't debate this online.

Ayla

But that's my point from my earlier posts:

If you condone a light smack to a misbehaving child, would you condone a light smack to a woman by her partner, or a light smack to a person with disabilities? You cannot seperate the instances, they are the exact same situation, yet so many people think the latter scenarios are appalling (a violation of human rights even) yet lightly smacking a child is ok???

Nanazolie

grindelwald wrote: »

A lot of 5 year olds can be reasoned with yet a toddler cant be reasoned with.


Going back to my 5 year old self, i was terrified to do something wrong in case my dad would smack me, so then i was a good girl (did nothing bold), did i love him at 5? NO, did i trust him at 5? YES, Did i respect him? YES Always! Do i love him now YES

I see far too many kids these days with no respect, this is down to lack of discipline/smacking (not beating a child, but a simple smack)

See? What did I say about a widespread belief that if a child is not smacked, he will not be taught respect, manners, etc... My kids, both under 5, know how to say please, thanks, not to interrupt, shout or break things, etc... They don't need to be smacked to learn that. I used the naughty step, but most importantly I remove something they like. And I stick to it, consistency being the most important thing when raising a child. If I say to my 3 years old: there will be no ice cream you are too bold, there is no ice cream and she understands why.
I also believe in experience, within reason: I told many many times my 18 months not to play with the kitchen drawers because he could hurt his fingers. But of course, he won't understand what "pinch your fingers" means until he has experienced it. Nor would he understand why he shouldn't play with the drawers if I simply gave him a smack (he would merely make a connection between the drawer and the smack). So I let him play until he finally stuck his fingers in. I had padded the top of the drawers to make sure there was no danger, so it was just a pinch. But he now knows that when I say "mind your fingers", it means that it can hurt.

Groinshot

Ayla wrote: »

But that's my point from my earlier posts:

If you condone a light smack to a misbehaving child, would you condone a light smack to a woman by her partner, or a light smack to a person with disabilities? You cannot seperate the instances, they are the exact same situation, yet so many people think the latter scenarios are appalling (a violation of human rights even) yet lightly smacking a child is ok???

It's up to a parent to discipline a child, and not to discipline their partner. They're completely different scenarios.

Nanazolie

Magic Beans wrote: »

I can see the merits of both sides of the smacking divide. Whatever you decide to do make sure you don't stray into harshness. I was beaten as a child and it has left a mark that has never gone away. To this day an unquenchable anger burns within me. I control it 99.99% of the time but there are times when I have reacted to situations much much more angrily than I should have. I regret it within seconds but it is too late then, somebody has usually been hurt. Don't do this to your children whatever you do.

That's why I find it extreme to call smacking "abuse". It is a lack of respect for the people who suffered real abuse as children.

Ayla

Groinshot wrote: »

It's up to a parent to discipline a child, and not to discipline their partner. They're completely different scenarios.

No they're not. To the man who feels he can't communicate with a partner, who gets frustrated b/c she's not doing what he tells her, who feels that the woman's been disobedient or bold they're the same thing.

But your immediate response: sure, he's an adult & should know better. They have verbal communication outlets, he doesn't need to smack her to get his point across. He's much bigger than her, he's using this advantage to harm someone more vulnerable.

How, exactly, is this not the same scenario?

nesf

Ayla wrote: »

But that's my point from my earlier posts:

If you condone a light smack to a misbehaving child, would you condone a light smack to a woman by her partner, or a light smack to a person with disabilities? You cannot seperate the instances, they are the exact same situation, yet so many people think the latter scenarios are appalling (a violation of human rights even) yet lightly smacking a child is ok???

Christ that's illogical. They're not the same situation the context in each is very different. What you said is exactly like if I said if it was ok to punch someone in self defence then it was ok to punch someone to start a fight. You're punching a person in both, so they have to be equivalent right? Etc.