Martial Arts for Seniors

Condatis

I am compiling details of self-defence and martial arts facilities catering for senior citizens – other sports also but I'm starting with this.

Details would be appreciated – nationwide.

TrollHammaren

Are you looking for clubs that specifically cater for senior citizens, or general information about clubs/styles that seniors can safely participate in?

Condatis

TrollHammaren wrote: »

Are you looking for clubs that specifically cater for senior citizens, or general information about clubs/styles that seniors can safely participate in?

Both really! I could post an email address where information could be sent – but I don't know whether I would be allowed to do that here.

I want to put together basic information with links which will allow people to see what's available in different parts of the country.

Active retirement that goes beyond backgammon.

Sid_Justice

In what capacity are you doing this? Do you work for Senior citizens group? I also think it's a little bit irresponsible to ask random anonymous people what they think is appropriate for older people to do without attempting to verify such claims.

I could easily say Judo is the perfect martial art for a +70 person to get involved in, the martial art known as the 'gentle way'. But on one hand, it couldn't be further from the truth.

I just think the entire thing is incredibly naive to have some list of safe activities for the elderly. All sports and martial arts are inherently risky.

Doug Cartel

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I just think the entire thing is incredibly naive to have some list of safe activities for the elderly. All sports and martial arts are inherently risky.

There's no harm in asking, but you should only treat the responses as a starting point for your research. Don't take any advice you get here as gospel.

Aslo, if you want to post your e-mail I think that's OK, but it'll get picked up by spammers petty quickly.

pearsquasher

With all Bujinkan teachers I know, no matter what the age of the prospective student, an assessment is made at the early stages on their physical ability to take part in classes. Should they be less able-bodied than the average student then a judgment call is made. Perhaps a special program would be developed for such a student or maybe they'd be assigned a particular senior student/assistant teacher to help them. In the end its more about the spirit of the student as I have seen many physical disabilities being adapted and overcome in the Bujinkan, including students who
- are a single amputee (hand)
- are partial blind
- are fully blind
- confined to a wheelchair
- double amputee (legs)
- dwarfism
- over 80's

This is how budo works. You have the body you have so you have your own "taijutsu" (body skill). What is absolutely necessary though is a sound mind and a strong spirit.

For any details on specific programs for OAPS, the OP could contact Bujinkan instructors individually. They are listed at www.bujinkan.ie.

Condatis

Doug Cartel wrote: »

There's no harm in asking, but you should only treat the responses as a starting point for your research. Don't take any advice you get here as gospel.

Aslo, if you want to post your e-mail I think that's OK, but it'll get picked up by spammers petty quickly.

Ok Doug – thank you! I take your point, it's information that I really want and I'll take it from there.

I see a number of groups listed in a 'stickie' for this forum but most of them don't have links – perhaps I'll send PMs to the posters. You're probably right about the email.

Sid_Justice

pearsquasher wrote: »

With all Bujinkan teachers I know, no matter what the age of the prospective student, an assessment is made at the early stages on their physical ability to take part in classes. Should they be less able-bodied than the average student then a judgment call is made. Perhaps a special program would be developed for such a student or maybe they'd be assigned a particular senior student/assistant teacher to help them. In the end its more about the spirit of the student as I have seen many physical disabilities being adapted and overcome in the Bujinkan, including students who
- are a single amputee (hand)
- are partial blind
- are fully blind
- confined to a wheelchair
- double amputee (legs)
- dwarfism
- over 80's

Just wondering, how many of the bunjikan teachers are qualified Occupational Therapists or hold a similar qualification in an allied health profession? You make a very bold claim that Bunjikan teachers are capable of performing these assessments and modify curriculum for people with a vast array of different personal needs. How do they gain the training and insight to do this?

RoboRat

how many of the bunjikan teachers are qualified Occupational Therapists

...and how many Occupational Therapists are Bunjikan instructors or have enough experience in Bunjikan.

I think any instructor worth their salt would know what a potential student can and cannot do.

Sid_Justice

RoboRat wrote: »

...and how many Occupational Therapists are Bunjikan instructors or have enough experience in Bunjikan.

I think any instructor worth their salt would know what a potential student can and cannot do.

You mean anyone with a bit of common sense would be able to say someone without any legs wouldn't be able to do activities that require standing on two legs?

So basically the point is any activity can be adapted for people with disabilities. My point is why is pearsquasher making the point when it's obvious all instructors in all martial arts do it relying on their own and their students common sense and trial and error.

I think it's important to remind ourselves that martial arts instructors generally have no qualifications, are not life gurus and are often not even qualified to teach their own martial art never mind give consultations in other people's domains.

CIARAN_BOYLE

I'm in a college karate club so we don't get a lot of senior citizens in the club. The club's instructor original instructor has stopped instructing Karate due to Heart issues.

I had a good chat with a women in her 70s a few weeks ago who does TKD in exchequer street. Maybe make enquiries with the club there.

HellsAngel

RoboRat wrote: »

...and how many Occupational Therapists are Bunjikan instructors or have enough experience in Bunjikan.

I think any instructor worth their salt would know what a potential student can and cannot do.

It's one thing an instructor weighing up the potential of a healthy student who has done maybe some martial arts in their youth, played a contact sport like gaelic or hurling or rugby most of their life or whatever and a person with a serious physical condition. Very, very few MA instructors aren't qualified Occupational Therapists or Doctors.

Doug Cartel

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I had a good chat with a women in her 70s a few weeks ago who does TKD in exchequer street. Maybe make enquiries with the club there.

Are you talking about the place that's now SBG? I don't think they've done TKD there for a while now.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Are you talking about the place that's now SBG? I don't think they've done TKD there for a while now.

To be honest I'm not certain. I was in Eason's and she was looking for a copy of Irish fighter I helped her find it and we talked. She said she did TKD in in Exchequer street. I didn't ask for details.

HellsAngel

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

I'm in a college karate club so we don't get a lot of senior citizens in the club. The club's instructor original instructor has stopped instructing Karate due to Heart issues.

I had a good chat with a women in her 70s a few weeks ago who does TKD in exchequer street. Maybe make enquiries with the club there.

Exchequer Street TKD closed down before last Xmas, a period of over 8 months, so much for talking to someone " a few weeks ago "

:rolleyes: ' Yawn ' Another wannabe funny guy....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Doug Cartel

HellsAngel wrote: »

Exchequer Street TKD closed down before last Xmas, a period of over 8 months, so much for talking to someone " a few weeks ago "

:rolleyes: ' Yawn ' Another wannabe funny guy....ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

Go on out of that, it's not a huge mistake. Also for all you know she could have told him this a few weeks ago. How many people do you know who claim to be training, but only turn up to the odd session every few months?

HellsAngel

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Go on out of that, it's not a huge mistake. Also for all you know she could have told him this a few weeks ago.

Could be a mistake, could be a wannabe funny guy - if form is anything to go by.

How many people do you know who claim to be training, but only turn up to the odd session every few months?

None to be honest.

Doug Cartel

HellsAngel wrote: »

None to be honest.

I must know a load of slackers so.

HellsAngel

Doug Cartel wrote: »

I must know a load of slackers so.

Nobody is perfect........only me !!!!!!

CIARAN_BOYLE

Doug Cartel wrote: »

How many people do you know who claim to be training, but only turn up to the odd session every few months?

Must have been this. Conversation happened in June.

dave80

Doug Cartel wrote: »

Are you talking about the place that's now SBG? I don't think they've done TKD there for a while now.

Just for info,

Sbg cc do a tkd class fridays at 6 wit an outside instructor

pearsquasher

Eh.. back on topic...

Just wondering, how many of the bunjikan teachers are qualified Occupational Therapists or hold a similar qualification in an allied health profession? You make a very bold claim that Bunjikan teachers are capable of performing these assessments and modify curriculum for people with a vast array of different personal needs. How do they gain the training and insight to do this?

I never said that Bujinkan teachers were capable of performing occupational therapeutic assessments on potential students. I said that they'd make a judgment call on whether a person, such as the ones with "disabilities" that I listed, could become a student of their dojo. I would expect the person in question to already have the occupational therapy side of their life sorted and for them to be able to adapt the Bujinkan class to suit themselves based on their own knowledge of their own body. (That's their sound mind/spirit that I mentioned, working for them).

I would also expect the same from ANY martial art but feel that Bujinkan is particularly suited to this because of its adaptive nature.

For the record I personally know about 10 Bujinkan teachers, mostly in Ireland, with more than sufficient professional backgrounds to be able to make better judgments on potential cases (which are very rare anyway) than the average MA instructor - and I'm not just talking about massage/acupuncture professionals but an orthopedic surgeon, an osteopath who also teachers medical students, and various other medical personnel, all of whom I suspect would relish the prospect of having an "interesting" body to work with because all good Bujinkan teachers know MA is the study of movement in sync with the mind/spirit no matter what the perceived disability is.

Sid_Justice

pearsquasher wrote: »

an osteopath who also teachers medical students,

is this in ireland?

RoboRat

HellsAngel wrote: »

It's one thing an instructor weighing up the potential of a healthy student who has done maybe some martial arts in their youth, played a contact sport like gaelic or hurling or rugby most of their life or whatever and a person with a serious physical condition. Very, very few MA instructors aren't qualified Occupational Therapists or Doctors.

Point I was making is that between the student and the instructor, they can establish what they can and cannot do. You are talking about people with disabilities, not people who are mentally handicapped and cannot make an informed decision. They know what their body is capable of and if they want to do some form of MA, they should be able to do so. They may not be able to pay for and Occupational Therapist or may not be willing to wait until one becomes available so if they decide that this is what they want to do, I cant see the problem.

I think it's important to remind ourselves that martial arts instructors generally have no qualifications, are not life gurus and are often not even qualified to teach their own martial art never mind give consultations in other people's domains.

I think if they are a genuine black belt, having studied for years, then they are qualified to teach. Maybe I have picked up the original question wrong but im not sure what you mean by other peoples domains... I was assuming that the poster was referring to disabled people learning martial arts - if an instructor is instructing outside of the MA then that is completely wrong but I do think they are qualified to teach the MA. I think that between the student and the instructor they can work out what can and cannot be done - if a student has no legs then obviously they cannot kick but it doesn't stop them from punching & grappling. They might not be particularly effective but if its what they want to do, then so be it.

I really don't see why an Instructor needs to be a Doctor or Occupational Therapist, obviously it would help but I don't see it as a necessity.

pearsquasher

RoboRat.. All of it...well said.

I really don't see why an Instructor needs to be a Doctor or Occupational Therapist, obviously it would help but I don't see it as a necessity.

All the instructor needs to be in 100% honest.

- this is my training history
- this is my professional therapy history.. if any

No one is putting a shuriken to anyones head to join a dojo.


Personally speaking I remind my students often that I'm not a personal fitness trainer, physiotherapist, massage therapist (although I have a diploma) or anything like that. One of my newer guys complained of sore thumbs so I gave him some self-massage pointers but made it clear that I wasn't a practicing qualified therapist and he should seek professional help if it continues. What I do know to decent extent is the martial art that I teach. If people want cardio I suggest a gym with qualified instructors, flexibility/core strength - a decent yoga teacher, the ability to get more mobility due to injury - a physio.

Martial Arts?.... that'd be me but they should try a lot of others as well.

If any of this is suprising to MA students, I'd start to wonder what sort of MA you do. Perhaps the teacher is filling in their lack of MA skill with other physical diciplines. Is this a good thing?

Anyway, if an OAP come to me and is enthusiastic about MA I will consider their potential over a few months and see can we fit them in the class. Should this be detrimental to the overall class progress, I'd review their case. This actually applies to ALL new students at my dojo. I'm not facilitating a drop-in gym but a place for dedicated and strong-willed commited students of Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu.


(

is this in ireland?

No the UK but this guy is a regular visitor to Ireland and a major influence on the Bujinkan here, at least with the circle of teacher I know and respect )

Barry.Oglesby

I'd say the original poster is only delighted that they have stumbled across this veritable gold mine of martial arts information.