Interesting Wiki on Switzerland

fathersymes

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_politics_in_Switzerland

pedroeibar1

Questionable if this topic belongs here IMO.



FWIW, that Wiki is not a very good piece, quite out of date and several ‘suspect’ sources, no doubt used to add fuel to the usual arguments put forward by USA gun nuts. More up-to-date figures show that gun crime in Switzerland is much higher – at 68 deaths it is No 23 in numbers globally. RoI &NI have almost the same population, far fewer murders Compare at
http://www.nationmaster.com/red/graph/cri_mur_wit_fir-crime-murders-with-firearms&b_map=1

cavan shooter

Before the thread gets locked up tight.... I did work in Switzerland and all my Colleagues at the time were serving officer reservists, its very interesting and mature that countries outlook on firearms, hunting etc.

I saw a guy walking down the Street once with his service rifle, the amazing thing, no one looked except Paddy here who was gob smacked and waiting for the equivalent of the ERU to jump out.

Sparks

Er, pedro, that 68 number is from 2002; the wikipedia number is from 2006.
That said, we're having to stretch to see the relevance of this to sports shooting, so unless the OP has any further comments that point out why this thread belongs here, we'll close this later on...

cavan shooter

hey Sparks.. maybe we could use the article to form debate and opinion on the how to integrate sporting firearms into society and get recognition that its a sport, considering the following:

A. Why are things so different in Switzerland in that their view on firearms seems so matter of fact and mature.

B. Is there any possibility a similar approach would ever work here?


instead of the OMG you have a gun you must be a nut case approach favoured by some non shooters or the some of the legislators

tac foley

Post deleted.

Sparks

tac foley wrote: »

The reason that Switzerland has such a laid-back attitude to guns is the same as that of Israel - every able-bodied male citizen over the age of 18 is obliged to serve in the military [actually more like a militia] until the age of 42. Some of the professional cadre, however serve until they fall off their perch.

Er, that's not really true anymore tac (and I don't think it ever was that simplistic as conscription rules in switzerland vary depending on what you wanted to do in their army - different ranks require different amounts of training and longer periods of service). You still keep your service rifle at home during your compulsory service, yes, but only if you are (a) found to be fit for service (20% aren't); (b) don't apply for a weaponless service (many do); and (c) aren't a consciousness objector (there are many and they do civilian service - which lasts longer than military service - instead). Also, they did away with the practice of storing sealed boxes of ammo at home for the service rifle a few years ago, and I don't think they let you buy your service rifle cheaply at the end of your military service anymore either.

If the same rules were applied to the RoI - another neutral country - then I'm sure we'd be just as blase about seeing guns over shoulders in the streets of Dublin as I am when I go over to Switzerland to shoot.

The last time anyone tried to introduce compulsory military service in the ROI was during WW1, and despite the official histories, is felt by many historians to be the real reason for the sudden (modern) upswing in popularity for the move to gain independence from the UK. I can't quite see anyone trying that again here.

Besides which, much of the swiss approach is social, and has evolved that way over hundreds of years. On top of which, the swiss psyche is radically different from the Irish psyche - the sort of thing that goes on in this country day-to-day would literally cause riots in the streets if it was done in Switzerland. And the sort of life most Swiss lead, while frankly better than ours, would lead to riots here if you tried to impose on most Irish people. Town hall votes for everything, curfews, real enforcement of traffic laws (ever see a speed trap in Switzerland? :pac: ), noise pollution laws being enforced - it's a lifestyle most Irish people would be incapable of adopting.

tac foley

Thank you for the corrections.

tac

fathersymes

Just to say that by posting the link I have no motive other than finding it of general interest.

Grizzly 45

cavan shooter wrote: »

A. Why are things so different in Switzerland in that their view on firearms seems so matter of fact and mature.

B. Is there any possibility a similar approach would ever work here?

To answer it breifly.
Switzerland has had a traditon of a armed pouplance since some time..oh around the time the Romans left for the last time. It has had a strong military and mercenary tradition throughout the last 1000 years more or less[Witness the Swiss gaurd in the Vatican,and the use of Swiss pikemen and mercs by various European armies throughout history].
So to keep that they have developed their own arms industries over the centuries and it is as well due to its banking one of the most stable and well off countries in the World.It is said that the army runs the banking system,as everyone from the bank director to the new on the job clerk has a military rank.


Edit.
Well Sparks has said the rest of it for me Re the social aspect..:D
BTW yes you cant buy the service rifle as it is full auto,unless you live in a Canton that allows FA possession.However you can certainly buy it in sem i auto,as you can quite a few off the card rifles and shotguns.

bazza888

if you want to keep your military firearm after service the military takes it back and its sent away and and the full auto function removed then the rifle is handed back to the owner

pedroeibar1

The main problem with the stats is that they are not comparable due to the diversity of the years in which the data is both available and collated. They also are skewed by 'peak events' – eg. Norway had an event this year that will have a big impact on its data timeline, UK had Dunblane, etc.
Apart from the societal differences, Switzerland has a tiny standing army, relatively speaking we have a large one, hence the Swiss keeping their guns at home. Switzerland did not have what amounted to a near ‘civil war’ among certain segments of its population from late 1960’s to the recent Peace Process. During that time the Irish Army and politicos here were paranoid about subversives (a) using the DF for training and (b) the high number of firearms with military capability, which is why there was a confiscation back in the early 1970s.

pedroeibar1

In Switzerland, annual firearm homicides total

2010: 40
2009: 55
2008: 18
2007: 35
2006: 34
2005: 48
2004: 57
2003: 47
2002: 68
2001: 47
2000: 40
1999: 72
1998: 66
1997: 91
1996: 80
1995: 65

In Ireland, annual firearm homicides total

2008: 21
2007: 19
2006: 27
2005: 22
2004: 9
2003: 21
2002: 10
2001: 9
2000: 12
1999: 12
1998: 4
1997: 9
1996: 16
1995: 12

(for sources see http://www.gunpolicy.org/ )
P

Sparks

pedroeibar1 wrote: »

(for sources see http://www.gunpolicy.org/ )

...who are a partner in IANSA.
Not so much criticising pedro as trying to point out that there really isn't any untainted information out there on the whole guns-or-no-guns topic, which is one of the main reasons RKBA is off-topic here; there just isn't any data to draw on that you can fully trust (and you'll find that that was the finding of the NAS review of this a few years ago as well).

And none of this is relating to sports or hunting yet btw.

Grizzly 45

Considering Switzerland has a higher gun ownership ratio per head of pouplation compared to Ireland.
With a est pouplation of 7.9 million and us at est 6.1 million,a stable political,financial and society,that has existed for generations.
Chalk and cheese springs to mind.

Sparks

Okay, we're just going round in circles here and we're too close to the off-topic line for that. Closing the thread.