HKC Quantum due shortly

KoolKid

The prices I am hearing does not make it that attractive.
For the cheap option its still going to be powermax , if your spending more your likely to stick with Securewave.
Don't rekon we will be seeing Astecs wireless now.;)

altor

There is a price difference but it is well worth the extra money from looking at it

KoolKid

altor wrote: »

There is a price difference but it is well worth the extra money from looking at it

I agree, but with it being close to the Securewave pricing whats the benefit of Quantum? Thats my fear.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

I agree, but with it being close to the Securewave pricing whats the benefit of Quantum? Thats my fear.

It not as expensive as pack 2 as far as I have being told which makes it good value as it will be a simpler install having everything built in to the control panel.

KoolKid

Ahh! a free kit to get me going & we'll take it from there:D

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Ahh! a free kit to get me going & we'll take it from there:D

Got mine last week. Looks great, Big thanks to HKC

Irish Fire

Is the Quantum on the market yet?

altor

It is to be released for sale on the 22 of August, no later than the 29th if all reports are correct

Irish Fire

altor wrote: »

It is to be released for sale on the 22 of August, no later than the 29th if all reports are correct

We'll see......

altor

Irish Fire wrote: »

We'll see......

Not another doubter

kub

Irish Fire wrote: »

We'll see......

I can see where you are coming from, from previous experience, but having spoken with someone in the know ( I wouldn't mention him, you all know him) it will be out then.
Don't forget most of the bugs have been identified with the use of the 1070 wireless function.
Roll on September, nice to see HKC putting it up to that Powermax crap.

KoolKid

From the pricing I have heard they are not putting it up to Visonic at all.
Again,lets wait and see.
If you are going to make statements that something is crap please back that up wth some facts.
I am mobile at the moment, I'll probably split this thread later. This has nothing to do with HKC buying Astec.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

From the pricing I have heard they are not putting it up to Visonic at all.
Again,lets wait and see.
If you are going to make statements that something is crap please back that up wth some facts.
I am mobile at the moment, I'll probably split this thread later. This has nothing to do with HKC buying Astec.

An alarm system is not necessarily a security system, I class a security system as some thing that has been professionally installed by a specialist. A specialist in technology, security and a bit of common tact.

Therefore please tell me why so many installers in this country install that Visionic <snip>
It looks to me like some thing that is boxed with the intention of selling it in a DIY shop.
Is this what our industry is being reduced to?

So I have concluded that any installer who installs this stuff is not really serious about security.
My biggest gripe with it is this, that bloody keyfob. Handy is it not? I mean you press 1 button on it and the system is off.
So for convience a customer puts the fob on their key ring ( which they will do ). Then they lose their keys. So now not only can the finder open their front door, but they can also switch off their 'alarm' ( a word I use lightly).
At least HKC had the cop on to give the installer the option of using the code function on their key fobs.

But at the end of the day the best security is a remote keypad, situated away from the panel.

Also I know of an installer who used to use that crap, he recently did the maths regarding the amount of times he had to go back to Visionic systems which he had installed, which gave trouble while under warranty.
So his calculations came to over € 2,500.

Jnealon

Visonic kit is grade 2, same as hkc.
Never had any issues with it

kub

Jnealon wrote: »

Visonic kit is grade 2, same as hkc.
Never had any issues with it

And what are your thoughts on the magic button on the remote?

KoolKid

OK so you don't like the system.
However it does conform to EN50131.Unless you know something the certification bodies do not then do not use the word crap again .
Your opinion does not count as facts.
Installers who install this are conforming to the relevant standards.
There are inspectors employed to judge their work & business practices.
Again you are not qualified to judge them , so please dont!
If this panel is boxed for DIY why is it not in any DIY shops. In fact, as I said already, its availability is a lot more limited than HKC, Aritech etc.
Also , Visonic will only give support to installation companies , more than can be said for some others.
Yes Keyfobs are vulnerable. But I have seen the best of systems installed with the code wrote on the keypads. You have to treat the fobs the same as your code & keep it safe. The best security system in the world is no good if the user is incompetent.
So an installer had to go back to the tune of €2500??
Even at €100 a call that's 25 call outs.
He needs more training I reckon.

If you want to compare and debate the merits of different systems then do so & back up statements you make . Much better than ranting.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

OK so you don't like the system.
However it does conform to EN50131.Unless you know something the certification bodies do not then do not use the word crap again .
Your opinion does not count as facts.
Installers who install this are conforming to the relevant standards.
There are inspectors employed to judge their work & business practices.
Again you are not qualified to judge them , so please dont!
If this panel is boxed for DIY why is it not in any DIY shops. In fact, as I said already, its availability is a lot more limited than HKC, Aritech etc.
Also , Visonic will only give support to installation companies , more than can be said for some others.
Yes Keyfobs are vulnerable. But I have seen the best of systems installed with the code wrote on the keypads. You have to treat the fobs the same as your code & keep it safe. The best security system in the world is no good if the user is incompetent.
So an installer had to go back to the tune of €2500??
Even at €100 a call that's 25 call outs.
He needs more training I reckon.

If you want to compare and debate the merits of different systems then do so & back up statements you make . Much better than ranting.

I agree completly with you regarding EN50131, a standard which as far as I am concerned actually reduced the requirements of IS 199, particularly with regard to EN 50131-1.
Infairness I have no doubts that the inspectors are doing their jobs well, to ensure the systems and companies are to a certain standard. Pity that standard is low.
Perhaps the product is in DIY shops in other countries. So the technical assistance you refer to, is that from ISD, ADI or Northwood?
My opinion of the product in my own tongue is <snip>, please do not patronise.
Again I agree with you regarding the codes, I have seen some classics in my time. But in fairness, I just cannot understand how an installer during a demo, shows the client how to press the little button to switch the system off, its farcical.
Infairness to this guy, it had nothing to do with training, it was faulty equipment.

Mod edit:Snipped. An infraction for this. 2 warnings is enough. Saying something is your opinion does not make it any less defamatory . Next time will be a ban

KoolKid

kub wrote: »

I agree completly with you regarding EN50131, a standard which as far as I am concerned actually reduced the requirements of IS 199, particularly with regard to EN 50131-1.
Infairness I have no doubts that the inspectors are doing their jobs well, to ensure the systems and companies are to a certain standard. Pity that standard is low.

You mean the part of IS199 where you could have a 6 bedroome house & install a contact on the front door & as long as it was tampered the system was up to standard? Grade 1 has no tampers but still requires some risk accessment.

kub wrote: »

Perhaps the product is in DIY shops in other countries.

As far as I am aware its not. Then again if you know different lets have it.

kub wrote: »

So the technical assistance you refer to, is that from ISD, ADI or Northwood?

Neither, Visonic.

kub wrote: »

My opinion of the product in my own tongue is <Snip>, please do not patronise.
Again I agree with you regarding the codes, I have seen some classics in my time. But in fairness, I just cannot understand how an installer during a demo, shows the client how to press the little button to switch the system off, its farcical.

A SigNET 300 also can have this feature , Would you rate this panel so poorly? I'm sorry , but you can not base a panels standars on how sensible the customer is. If keys are lost you change your locks. If codes are know to others you change your code. If you fob is lost you delete it.

kub wrote: »

Infairness to this guy, it had nothing to do with training, it was faulty equipment.

And it took him over 25 calls to figure that out?

stormvogel

The biggest problem with the visionic is the battery life compared to the hkc equipment!

KoolKid

I have many Visonic devices in over 3 and 4 years without issues.
I'd be more than happy with that.

stormvogel

Really? Are they inertias, contacts or pirs? We have fitted about 5 systems with inertias and although the pir and contact batteries are fine, the inertias only last about 13 - 15 months. Alright though coz customers have maintenance contracts but we find hkc much better......

stormvogel

Going to HKC road show in Arklow on thursday tio see Quantum, I heard there were a few issues with software crashing so hope they have it sorted by now.... Looking forward to it.

Irish Fire

kub wrote: »

An alarm system is not necessarily a security system, I class a security system as some thing that has been professionally installed by a specialist. A specialist in technology, security and a bit of common tact.

Therefore please tell me why so many installers in this country install that Visionic <snip>
It looks to me like some thing that is boxed with the intention of selling it in a DIY shop.
Is this what our industry is being reduced to?

So I have concluded that any installer who installs this stuff is not really serious about security.
My biggest gripe with it is this, that bloody keyfob. Handy is it not? I mean you press 1 button on it and the system is off.
So for convience a customer puts the fob on their key ring ( which they will do ). Then they lose their keys. So now not only can the finder open their front door, but they can also switch off their 'alarm' ( a word I use lightly).
At least HKC had the cop on to give the installer the option of using the code function on their key fobs.

But at the end of the day the best security is a remote keypad, situated away from the panel.

Also I know of an installer who used to use that crap, he recently did the maths regarding the amount of times he had to go back to Visionic systems which he had installed, which gave trouble while under warranty.
So his calculations came to over € 2,500.

Is it not the case that in the U.K. part of the regs state that alarms have to have the keyfob, and this was part of the reason that HKC were not in the U.K. market up to now?

Jnealon

Irish Fire wrote: »

Is it not the case that in the U.K. part of the regs state that alarms have to have the keyfob, and this was part of the reason that HKC were not in the U.K. market up to now?

DD243 is the reg in the UK.

altor

stormvogel wrote: »

Really? Are they inertias, contacts or pirs? We have fitted about 5 systems with inertias and although the pir and contact batteries are fine, the inertias only last about 13 - 15 months.

I agree, 2 - 3 years is the max on these devices. If you do a training course they will tell you to change batteries out of PIRs to other PIRs that dont have as much use to make the batteries last longer. I would rather just change them every 2 years so no issues arise.

KoolKid

stormvogel wrote: »

Really? Are they inertias, contacts or pirs? We have fitted about 5 systems with inertias and although the pir and contact batteries are fine, the inertias only last about 13 - 15 months. Alright though coz customers have maintenance contracts but we find hkc much better......

Combination of all.
I have actually some of each device in my own house. Dated all devices to get accurate info. Every device is now at 32 months & not one low battery. One door would be getting a lot of use.

kub

KoolKid wrote: »

You mean the part of IS199 where you could have a 6 bedroome house & install a contact on the front door & as long as it was tampered the system was up to standard? Grade 1 has no tampers but still requires some risk accessment.

As far as I am aware its not. Then again if you know different lets have it.

Neither, Visonic.

A SigNET 300 also can have this feature , Would you rate this panel so poorly? I'm sorry , but you can not base a panels standars on how sensible the customer is. If keys are lost you change your locks. If codes are know to others you change your code. If you fob is lost you delete it.

And it took him over 25 calls to figure that out?

Koolkid I am very sorry for upsetting you so much and apologies to all for using an offending word.
So I don't overall maybe its me, perhaps I was trained to a standard too high all of those years ago. In general I believe, you get what you pay for.

Regarding the contact on the door of the 6 bedroom house, well as you know you are correct. But I just suppose as there was such a limited range of control panels in the early years chances were we were all using the same gear. Especially when a panel had to conform to IS 199, back then I worked in a very decent company who operated to a high standard, so the contact to the front door issue did not arise.

Being honest reagrding the DIY shops, I don't, just a gut feeling considering it is a global brand.

So the technical assistance is available directly from Visionic to installers only, thats excellent, so how often do you have to ring them?
Personally I rang HKC a while back with a technical query for one of the lads. Lorna did ask who was calling, so I wonder are your reffering to them?

Also we both know that Europlex use Visionic gear, an easier thing to do than perhaps produce their own.

The remote of course can be deleted, but the damage could have been done at that stage. Sorry I don't like the idea of them and never will.

Yes it took him that long, great having competitors like that, makes it easier for the rest of us.

Again please accept my apologies.

altor

Visonic say its not a DIY kit but you can buy it on the internet. Even Google powermax Ireland and they will set up the kit for you so you can install it yourself. Most other companys only allow wholesalers stock and sell there equipment.

kub

In fairness to Hkc, they have a fine habit of wiping their competition when they introduce new panels to the market.

I am looking forward to this new Quantum panel, I have made a commerical decision going forward anyway. That is we will, as and from September, only install wireless HKC systems to houses that have not been prewired.

Any of you guys thinking along those lines?

Jnealon

altor wrote: »

Visonic say its not a DIY kit but you can buy it on the internet. Even Google powermax Ireland and they will set up the kit for you so you can install it yourself. Most other companys only allow wholesalers stock and sell there equipment.

While it's not ideal that visonic kit is widely available the Irish manufacturers kit is also widely available in most electrical wholesalers. Anybody can walk in off the street and buy the kit and most do.
All you have to do is walk down any street and count the number of blank boxes
Most of the questions on here relate to "which panel should I buy", hk cor signet ets

Jnealon

kub wrote: »

In fairness to Hkc, they have a fine habit of wiping their competition when they introduce new panels to the market.

I am looking forward to this new Quantum panel, I have made a commerical decision going forward anyway. That is we will, as and from September, only install wireless HKC systems to houses that have not been prewired.

Any of you guys thinking along those lines?

Our company policy is not to use new products until they have been on the market for at least 6 months.
All manufacturers issue fixes for panels in the first few months.
It's a risk that I am not willing to take anymore