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Process Of Court

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  • 16-08-2011 2:41pm
    #1
    Sarah316
    Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭


    Hello,

    i will be attending court for the first time in the coming months,charged with theft,I'm planning on getting it over and done with ASAP as the whole issue has been quite traumatic for me,however,i know what i did was wrong and i will face the consequences,it is my first offence

    i plan to represent myself and plead guilty at the earliest opportunity as i don't want the date to be continuously pushed back and thus giving me more sleepless nights and worry about the issue...

    the guards who i dealt were possibly the nicest people i have came across in a long time,incredibly helpful and looked after me the best they possibly could,i really could not speak higher of them...

    can a court case be over with in 1 date? or must it always be pushed back a couple of times etc?

    just wondering if anyone could give me advice or the scenario i will face in court...

    im also slightly worried about newspapers printing the story,as i said,i did the crime,i'll do the time,

    I'm more worried for my families sake rather than mine,is there a way of knowing in advance that it will be printed or is it just open the paper and there it is!...again any information on this would be helpful

    i don't want to put them through anything,again,i know i should have thought about this before hand.

    thank you in advance!
    Tagged:


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    #2
    jblack
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭jblack


    Some offences are often dealt with on the return date (the date you'll be first in court). It will depend on how many prosecution witnesses there are and the likelihood of a custodial sentence.

    If you stole a penny sweet and there is one Garda witness then chances are it will be dealt with there and then.

    If you stole weapons grade uranium then probably not.

    The judge may ask you to reconsider obtaining legal representation (depends on likelihood of prison), if you do go with that then it will be adjourned - I know you say you want to represent yourself but if the Judge intimates you should seriously consider getting representation then read between the lines and get a solicitor.

    You may be entitled to legal aid.

    As for reporters; the courts are a public forum and therefore there may well be someone in court from a paper.


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    #3
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,411 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    If you are pleading guilty then it's highly unlikely that it will be adjourned. When you plead guilty the prosecuting Garda will outline the facts of the case, tells the judge if you have any previous convictions and then it's up to you to chip in anything that you feel might help your case. You might, for example, ask the Garda to confirm that you co-operated with him and maybe try to give an explanation as to why you did what you did, like for example you were under stress because of an illness in the family or you were recently laid off or something. I'm not suggesting that you make something up but that type of thing is often churned out in a plea of mitigation.

    Even though you're pleading guilty, it's normal for someone who can afford it to hire a solicitor for something like this.

    Will it be reported in the paper? That all depends on who you are and what was stolen. From what you say it looks to me like you were caught shoplifting or something similar so on the scale of things it's a pretty minor event if you live in a big city. That said, there is no way of telling in advance if it will be reported in the paper or not.

    If you're an actor on Fair City or a person with any newsworthy value then you can be sure that it will be reported because someone in the Gardai or in the courts will see your name and give the data to a paper for a kickback, it happens all the time.


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    #4
    jblack
    Registered Users Posts: 476 ✭✭jblack


    coylemj wrote: »


    If you're an actor on Fair City .

    You may be charged with some other offence.


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    #5
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    First I will be very clear Please get a solicitor. A conviction for a theft offence is a burden you will carry for the rest of your life. If for example you are not an Irish Citizen it will more than likely be a bar to getting Irish Citizenship. A conviction will also show up if you go for any number of jobs. While it may be nice to think you can get this all over and done with in a day, you may have to live with any conviction for life.

    Now in relation to your questions, you have not said is the matter a district court matter or is it Indictment, usually in DC the matter may be disposed of on the one day, but that very much depends on the Court. In the Circuit Court the matter will usually be put back but a plea may be entered on the day court time permitting, and sentencing could also be done on that day.

    While the Garda are being very nice, remember it is not their job to look out for your interests, I am not saying they will stich you up, but they have a job todo and its not to look after you.

    A solicitor can advice you after recieving copy statements if you have any defence, also solicitor can advise you how best to deal with a sentence to hopefully get the Probation of Ofenders Act 1907 Section 1 (1) (i) which in effect is no conviction.

    In relation to Court Reporters many courts have them there, it all depends on the news that day heavy news day no real chance you are in papers quite day chance, unless you are a presidental hopefull then lots of news, lol.

    But please get legal advice, if you cant afford one he can make Legal Aid Application, and after the recent SC decision in Joyce v Dirtrict Judge Brady, you would have a very good chance of getting legal aid.


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    #6
    Sarah316
    Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Sarah316


    truth be told i can't afford to pay for a solicitor,and would feel shame at charging the state to represent me,after all i did the crime so i should pay for it

    i think i have it in me to be able to talk to the judge and explain why i done it and what i have been doing since,i don't plan to make up lies regarding mitigating factors,i do have quite a few but again none of which are excuses for what i done,i fully hold my hands up.

    the prosecuting gardai has told me she will go to court for me on the first date if i want her to

    they also told me that they would be 99% percent certain i will get probation of offenders act,which i would extremely grateful for,if it the D.P.P doesn't defer it to a caution before hand.

    it is going to Dublin District Court,which i am also thankful for.

    i know there number one job isn't to look out for me but they are human's and they do realise good people can make mistakes,they said i was the most polite person they'd dealt with in a long time and would stand for me,i also have a current Garda Vetting Form,to work in my local community centre,which they said they wouldn't object against if they were contacted about it.

    this whole issue has been really traumatic for me and i still find it quite surreal I'm going to be going to court for a criminal offence,i know i haven't murdered anyone but still..

    i want to get on with my life as soon as possible and hopefully be able to put this all behind me


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    #7
    Sarah316
    Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Sarah316


    i plan to make a donation to charity too,is the amount the judges decision or mine?

    i guess the amount i could/would give will vary due to the amount i am likely to be fined!


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    #8
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Sarah316 wrote: »
    truth be told i can't afford to pay for a solicitor,and would feel shame at charging the state to represent me,after all i did the crime so i should pay for it

    i think i have it in me to be able to talk to the judge and explain why i done it and what i have been doing since,i don't plan to make up lies regarding mitigating factors,i do have quite a few but again none of which are excuses for what i done,i fully hold my hands up.

    the prosecuting gardai has told me she will go to court for me on the first date if i want her to

    they also told me that they would be 99% percent certain i will get probation of offenders act,which i would extremely grateful for,if it the D.P.P doesn't defer it to a caution before hand.

    it is going to Dublin District Court,which i am also thankful for.

    i know there number one job isn't to look out for me but they are human's and they do realise good people can make mistakes,they said i was the most polite person they'd dealt with in a long time and would stand for me,i also have a current Garda Vetting Form,to work in my local community centre,which they said they wouldn't object against if they were contacted about it.

    this whole issue has been really traumatic for me and i still find it quite surreal I'm going to be going to court for a criminal offence,i know i haven't murdered anyone but still..

    i want to get on with my life as soon as possible and hopefully be able to put this all behind me

    As you clearly say there are a few reasons that may be an excuse, you are not legaly trained please seek advice of a solicitor. As you say you cant afford one well then the state will provide one, please use the service. While the Garda says they are confident that you will get probation act what happenes if you happen to get a visiting judge who decides to jail you or give a big fine, do you know how to start an appeal. Also the fact that the matter is now before a court I assume a summons has issued, from your first post, then it in my opinon is not open to the Garda or the DPP to go by way of a Adult Caution. If you do not want to get free proper legal advice from a solicitor, who will know what he is talking about and have all the facts of your case, then what in gods name are you doing on here, where no one knows the facts of your case, and most peoples legal training came from watching CSI Miami.


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    #9
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    Sarah316 wrote: »
    i plan to make a donation to charity too,is the amount the judges decision or mine?

    i guess the amount i could/would give will vary due to the amount i am likely to be fined!

    Again this depends on the Judge, whom a local solicitor will know, some Judges have a sort of scale unofficial, others get offended if you dont say the right amount, these are resons why having a solicitor is a good thing. Now dont get me wrong most Judges bend over backwards for those who have no legal assistance, but why risk you future because you feel bad at the moment. As I said earlier YOU will have to live with the decision on how you now deal with this matter at least give it your best. Your Solicitor muight well advise you to plead guilty but he will know the form of your judge and how best to get you the very best outcome.


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    #10
    MapForJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭MapForJ


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    A solicitor can advice you after recieving copy statements if you have any defence, also solicitor can advise you how best to deal with a sentence to hopefully get the Probation of Ofenders Act 1907 Section 1 (1) (i) which in effect is no conviction.
    excuse me butting in but i am curious if defending oneself one can get a copy of the statements


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    #11
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    MapForJ wrote: »
    excuse me butting in but i am curious if defending oneself one can get a copy of the statements


    That is why a person should not defend thenselves, how can you or any one decide to plead guilty unless they know in advance the evidence to be given against them. They are called a Gary Doyle order and all statements, custody records etc, are to be given to the accused, case is The Director of Public Prosecutions Prosecutor v Gary Doyle [1994] 2 IR 286. Not being silly but would any person operate on himself, legal aid is there use it.


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    #12
    coylemj
    Registered Users Posts: 25,411 ✭✭✭✭coylemj


    MapForJ wrote: »
    excuse me butting in but i am curious if defending oneself one can get a copy of the statements

    Not normally done in the District Court, if it was sent up to the Circuit Court you'd get a book of evidence but in the DC there is no exchange of documents apart from the fact that the defendant is handed a copy of the charge if they are arrested and then bailed in the Garda station.

    Anyway the OP is pleading guilty so I don't think there's any dispute as to the bare facts of the case.


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    #13
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    coylemj wrote: »
    Not normally done in the District Court, if it was sent up to the Circuit Court you'd get a book of evidence but in the DC there is no exchange of documents apart from the fact that the defendant is handed a copy of the charge if they are arrested and then bailed in the Garda station.

    Anyway the OP is pleading guilty so I don't think there's any dispute as to the bare facts of the case.


    You are very wrong while a book of evidence is not given as you say in the DC, you are entitled to request and get Copy Statements, it is a standard application as I said called a Gary Doyle Order. Our system of justice has a little thing innocent till proven guilty, yes a person may have done it but can it be proved.


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    #14
    MapForJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭MapForJ


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    That is why a person should not defend thenselves, how can you or any one decide to plead guilty unless they know in advance the evidence to be given against them. They are called a Gary Doyle order and all statements, custody records etc, are to be given to the accused, case is The Director of Public Prosecutions Prosecutor v Gary Doyle [1994] 2 IR 286. Not being silly but would any person operate on himself, legal aid is there use it.
    only a solicitor/legal person can get a Gary doyle order?


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    #15
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    MapForJ wrote: »
    only a solicitor/legal person can get a Gary doyle order?

    If a person represents them selves any and I repeat any application can be made by them. But if you see my earlier post that is why i say get a solicitor so that they know what a Gary Doyle order is.


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    #16
    MapForJ
    Closed Accounts Posts: 354 ✭✭MapForJ


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    If a person represents them selves any and I repeat any application can be made by them. But if you see my earlier post that is why i say get a solicitor so that they know what a Gary Doyle order is.
    ok read that wrong sorry


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    #17
    ResearchWill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,111 ✭✭✭ResearchWill


    MapForJ wrote: »
    Then why did you say a person should not defend themselves? In case they did not know they can make a request all documents


    Yes exactly, and for various other reasons, like the form of the Judge, for example certain jusged will usually give conviction for certain things, and will never give probation of ofenders, for example certain judges will always convict for small drug possesion, the solicitor will know that but will also know that the Curcuit Judge in that area may give Probation of Ofenders for that offence on appeal, so the Client would be aware of that and know how things will go, in any normal case.

    While I did say a person should not defend themselve I neve said that such a person can not defend themselves.


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    #18
    Tom Young
    Legal Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 4,338 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tom Young


    We don't do legal advice OP.


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    #19
    Sarah316
    Closed Accounts Posts: 60 ✭✭Sarah316


    ResearchWill wrote: »
    You are very wrong while a book of evidence is not given as you say in the DC, you are entitled to request and get Copy Statements, it is a standard application as I said called a Gary Doyle Order. Our system of justice has a little thing innocent till proven guilty, yes a person may have done it but can it be proved.


    im pleading GUILTY,it doesn't have to be proved!

    it won't be going to trial,i want to get this over and done with asap,whilst also looking out for whats best for myself too

    i think the only thing a solicitor would be doing in this case would be pleading my mitigating circumstances and asking for the benefit of the probation of offenders act...

    which i think I'm capable of doing myself without having the issue put back a couple of months...


This discussion has been closed.
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