Tip: Take a photo of everything before you leave your rented property!

Abolyss

Hello all,

I would like to give you all some advice, after cleaning the house/apartment you were renting, Take As Many Pictures As Possible (preferably dated).

As I found out today, I received my deposit in the mail which was 985€...out of 1200€. I called the agency which my landlord preferred to deal through (I never once spoke or saw my landlord) and asked them what happened to the rest of my money. They informed me that they did not see the house as being sufficiently clean enough and so they had to hire a cleaning crew to clean up the "rubbish". Apparently, they removed a whoooole van full of rubbish. Seems slightly impossible however seeing as the other tenants and I spent a whole day cleaning every single bit of it. When we left, it was spotless.

However.

Because I don't live in Dublin (where my accommodation was) we had to organise a date for the agency to view the property for the final time in it's not so clean state (Although all that it need was a good Hoover and the fridge/cabinets to be cleared). Therefore, when I argued that it was spotless when we left, they retorted that we it's our word versus theirs as the only time we were both present in the house, it wasn't clean. So when they apparently returned and found some imaginary mess, I had no proof that we had left it cleaner than what was viewable at the previous appointment.

I feel horribly stupid for not taking any photos, and even more stupid for trusting a property agent with my money in the current financial times. As such I will obviously be taking the hit and giving the other tenants their money.

I just wish someone had reminded me that it would have probably been a good idea to take photographs. Hopefully anybody moving out soon will use my stupidity to their avail and make sure there is photographic evidence.

I honestly have no idea where they got this "rubbish". Our neighbour at the time had their entire yard filled with rubbish (his house had burned down recently and he didn't have the money to move it) so I could only imagine that's where they got it.

I imagine I don't really have a case against them, at least not one that doesn't cost more to enforce than I would get back from winning.

That's it, Good luck to you all!

convert

As far as I know (so I may be subject to correction - Threshold will advise you for definite), but landlords may not retain a deposit for professional cleaning of a premises, unless it's beyond normal wear and tear.

Ask the estate agent for a receipt for the 'cleaning services' (they must supply you with receipts - rough/handwritten receipts don't count) and give them maybe a week to furnish you with a copy of those receipts. If they don't, tell them that you will be lodging a complaint with the PRTB re. them retaining part of your deposit for cleaning.

In the meantime, contact Threshold (www.threshold.ie) and have a chat with them about the situation.

The PRTB website (prtb.ie) is also useful re. your rights as a tenant, so have a look there, as well as the citizens' information site.

not even wrong

convert wrote: »

Ask the estate agent for a receipt for the 'cleaning services' (they must supply you with receipts - rough/handwritten receipts don't count) and give them maybe a week to furnish you with a copy of those receipts. If they don't, tell them that you will be lodging a complaint with the PRTB re. them retaining part of your deposit for cleaning.

Lodge a complaint with the PRTB anyway. There was a case a while back on this forum where the "receipts for professional cleaning" from the landlord turned out to be from a company that the landlord owned himself!

Abolyss

I asked for the receipt when I spoke to them first and it just said "Deep clean of 3 bedroom house" and "Removal of Rubbish from Address", that's mainly what got me as there was no rubbish to remove. The only thing I can think of is that they cleaned the garden of weeds etc. and took out a crappy rug which we stored away because it was so dirty, however, both of these things were shown to the agent who remembered they were like that when we moved in. I made it a priority to point that out to him. The company the invoice came from is called 'Busy Bs' (http://busybshouseclean.com/) not much info on their website as to who owns it and I have no idea how to find out who registered the company etc.

I was thinking of contacting PRTB, but in the dispute section it says the cost is about 100€. However, I may have read that wrong!

I would love to do something about this, but in all honesty, I don't have any proof other than my word and that of the other tenants. I came out of the house thinking I could trust they wouldn't screw me over and so there was no need for photographic proof. Turns out you can never really trust anyone, especially when money is involved :P

trihead

Thats a pain but move on from it. You made a mistake so take some of the blame Next time have the place finished [cleaning] when u have the final meeting/handover.

"Because I don't live in Dublin (where my accommodation was) we had to organise a date for the agency to view the property for the final time in it's not so clean state (Although all that it need was a good Hoover and the fridge/cabinets to be cleared)"

trihead

convert

Ask them for a detailed, itemised receipt. A rough one is not acceptable.

Not sure what the cost of lodging an apppeal with the PRTB is, but it would be worth it in the end if you got even some of that deposit back.

Don't forget - they need proof as much as you do, so don't let them intimidate you.

Please talk to either threshold or the PRTB (or both) tmr and see what they say.

From your post, it clearly seems that the landlord and the EA are taking the p**s. Don't let them get away with it - they'll just do it to the next tenant who moves in.

Fiii

trihead wrote: »

Thats a pain but move on from it. You made a mistake so take some of the blame Next time have the place finished [cleaning] when u have the final meeting/handover.

"Because I don't live in Dublin (where my accommodation was) we had to organise a date for the agency to view the property for the final time in it's not so clean state (Although all that it need was a good Hoover and the fridge/cabinets to be cleared)"

trihead

So they should be out of pocket by €215 because she didn't assume the landlord/ agent would try to pull a fast one? I don't think so!

Abolyss wrote: »

I
I was thinking of contacting PRTB, but in the dispute section it says the cost is about 100€. However, I may have read that wrong!

I would love to do something about this, but in all honesty, I don't have any proof other than my word and that of the other tenants. I came out of the house thinking I could trust they wouldn't screw me over and so there was no need for photographic proof. Turns out you can never really trust anyone, especially when money is involved :P

You should def fight this, if only for the principal of it!
It costs only €25 to lodge a dispute with the PRTB, and Threshold will help you out for free. It might take a while to get it all sorted, but sometimes just the threat of going to the PRTB is enough to get them to cop on and you back your money.

Your deposit cannot be used for cleaning, end of, and they know this. They are just trying to pull a fast one.
Too many landlords/ agents are trying this every single day, and they are getting away with it. It has to stop, but it won't unless we all fight it.
It doesn't matter if it's €10 or €100 - it's your money, and they have zero right to it.

A previous landlord of mine tried to pull the same crap - we fought it and got our money back in full.

I had the exact same problem, only my landlord withheld the whole lot! He was very aggressive to me on the phone and claimed I caused €2,000 worth of damage which was pretty much impossible considering the size of the place. I subsequently saw the flat to let on Daft and some of the things he complained about were still there. A new carpet was installed but the original one was manky anyway.

I learned a double lesson that time, the first being to take photos, and the second to learn about part 4 tenancy rules. I couldn't go to the PRTB as I had given insufficient notice (28 days rather than 56). I was complying with the notice mentioned on my original fixed term lease but this was pretty much null and void as the fixed term had expired and I signed no other lease.

frazzledma

I wish I had read this two weeks ago. My ex landlady is saying the house was "disgusting" when she was there with me as I finished cleaning and it was spotless! Two days of deep cleaning an empty house and she says it was "disgusting". It was NEVER disgusting the whole time we lived there!

Abolyss

Thanks for the info from everyone

I had contemplated just accepting that it was my fault for not taking photos, but the more I thought about it the more I realised that I shouldn't have to.

I contacted Threshold as you advised and they said because neither the agency nor I have any photographic evidence, the case could go either way. It is literally down to whoever they believe the most.

I'm thinking of going ahead with it, but if we lose then it's 25€ extra out of the money I have already lost.

I'm at a fork in the road, and I have no idea which way to go. Although I am kind of leading toward paying the 25€...Argh!

testicle

Abolyss wrote: »

http://busybshouseclean.com/

owner-contact-id: 54429
owner-name: James Beck
owner-organisation:
owner-email: busybs@upcmail.ie
owner-voice: +353.12940909
owner-fax: +353.12940909
owner-addr: 135 Stepaside Park
owner-addr: Stepaside
owner-city: Dublin
owner-province: Co. Dublin
owner-postcode: -
owner-country: IE

Fiii

Abolyss wrote: »

Thanks for the info from everyone

I had contemplated just accepting that it was my fault for not taking photos, but the more I thought about it the more I realised that I shouldn't have to.

I contacted Threshold as you advised and they said because neither the agency nor I have any photographic evidence, the case could go either way. It is literally down to whoever they believe the most.

I'm thinking of going ahead with it, but if we lose then it's 25€ extra out of the money I have already lost.

I'm at a fork in the road, and I have no idea which way to go. Although I am kind of leading toward paying the 25€...Argh!

They can't take your money for anything more than normal wear and tear.
If you say the house was clean, then go for it!
If you have any emails etc, print them out now. And get the timeline of it all straight in your head, and type it out so you don't forget.

They have to prove their case, and by the sounds of it, they don't have one.
They cannot charge you for cleaning, unless you damaged the walls or something and they had to repaint etc.

Like I said, sometimes just knowing you're not letting them get away with it, and going to the PRTB will get them to cop on.

Agent J

I had a landlord/ estate agent try to pull the same stunt on me.

Its a standard trick.

Luckily enough i had photos taken before i left but to be honest i didnt need them. I lodged with the PRTB and it took a long while but i got it all back and got to face down the landlord. He made himself look like a tool.

The burden of proof is on them in this setting. They need to have photos etc to justify it.

Go for it.