Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

blueballfc

Looks like plans are afoot for the grand canal in Kildare.

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/grand-canal-greenway-plans-view-week-kildare-county-council-offices/259324

G-Man

They should also get the unfinished hazelhatch to lucan section done.. Real bad that this was not done already, it would have brought celbridge onto the grand canal..

Great, now lets see which county is ambituous enough to link both canal greenways somewhere in midlands.. Edenderry to enfield partially along old alignment.. OR Tullamore, kilbeggan mullingar via old canal and brosna river..

Maybe the Athlone section goes no further west and cuts south to shannon harbour.. A circular route like this could be just as valuable as full cross country route.. it links up real commuting towns and introduces a tourist product to areas that do not have it. The value of a weekend round trip would be a great package to sell too.

Zubeneschamali

G-Man wrote: »

Maybe the Athlone section goes no further west and cuts south to shannon harbour..

That is exactly the current plan - South to Shannon Harbour, then up the old canal to Ballinasloe.

Edit: I tell a lie - south to Shannonbridge, not as far as Shannon Harbour. You'd have a 10Km cycle on R roads between the two.

jd

From https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/urdf_-_2019_funding_allocations_0.pdf


Some preliminary funding for Santry River Greenway in Dublin


Dún Laoghaire
-
Rathdown County
Council
Cherrywood Public
Parks, Greenways &
Attenuation
Dublin
EMRA
PR
€870,000.00

Mayo County
Council
Castlebar Urban
Greenway Link
Mayo
NWRA
CD
€938,000.00


Also


https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/greenway-plan-would-harm-wildlife-and-conservation-58jn3swpd

A greenway in Co Wexford that was expected to bring in 275,000 visitors a year has been refused planning permission over its potential impact on conservation sites and wildlife.
The 10.7km cycling and pedestrian coastal route between Ferrybank in Wexford town and Culleton’s Gap near Curracloe was expected to become a major visitor attraction in the southeast.
The project, which included a further 4.9km of looped trails at each end of the route, was one of four greenways the county council planned to develop over the next five years. It was hoped the initiative would give a €40 million boost to the local economy.

mr spuckler

wasn't that planning refused a while ago? I thought I read something about it a few weeks back, certainly something related to a greenway to Curracloe being refused / shelved.

jd

mr spuckler wrote: »

wasn't that planning refused a while ago? I thought I read something about it a few weeks back, certainly something related to a greenway to Curracloe being refused / shelved.

Sorry, yes, it was a few weeks ago. I was away for a while and missed the previous posts

schemingbohemia

G-Man wrote: »

They should also get the unfinished hazelhatch to lucan section done.. Real bad that this was not done already, it would have brought celbridge onto the grand canal..

Great, now lets see which county is ambituous enough to link both canal greenways somewhere in midlands.. Edenderry to enfield partially along old alignment.. OR Tullamore, kilbeggan mullingar via old canal and brosna river..

Maybe the Athlone section goes no further west and cuts south to shannon harbour.. A circular route like this could be just as valuable as full cross country route.. it links up real commuting towns and introduces a tourist product to areas that do not have it. The value of a weekend round trip would be a great package to sell too.

Westmeath got funding recently to do just that in Kilbeggan.

http://irishcycle.com/2018/11/20/e8m-outdoor-recreation-fund-includes-support-for-walking-and-cycling-routes/

Not sure €500,000 will be enough but it's a good sign.

riddlinrussell

blueballfc wrote: »

Looks like plans are afoot for the grand canal in Kildare.

https://www.kildarenow.com/news/grand-canal-greenway-plans-view-week-kildare-county-council-offices/259324

Ive updated the whole grand canal to 'Planned' for now, hopefully not getting ahead of myself....

The plans should also be made available on KildareCoCo website... unfortunately the link doesn't work at present. Maybe by the end of the week! I'll see if Waterways Ireland has any more info.

http://kildare.ie/countycouncil/PublicConsultations-Part8Schemes/roadsandtransportation/GrandCanalGreenway/index.html

Greaney

A lot of folk would like to see the Athenry Tuam (Claremorris to Sligo) railway line re-open and alternatives be looked at for the greenway. (50% of all Galway City workers live in the county, and the second largest commuter population comes from Tuam, Oranmore has the highest).

At an earlier meeting, before Ciarán Cannon T.D. held his one in Athenry during the summer, other options were explored. Alas, if you mention any alternative to the railway-line you're shouted down. A lot of folk in both Tuam and Athenry (and I mean a lot) don't agree it should be turned into a greenway at the cost of future rail development. Already Ballyglunin Post office has been closed so folk will have to go somewhere for this service.

There's been some activity on the line at Athenry. If the Quietman Greenway campaign has done something good so far, it's put a fire under Iarnrod Eireann to do something!

serfboard

Greaney wrote: »

A lot of folk in both Tuam and Athenry (and I mean a lot) don't agree it should be turned into a greenway at the cost of future rail development.

Have you any numbers for this "lot"? Or any source for those numbers?

A lot of people in Tuam do agree that the line should be turned into a Greenway - several thousand in fact.

Sam Russell

Greaney wrote: »

A lot of folk would like to see the Athenry Tuam (Claremorris to Sligo) railway line re-open and alternatives be looked at for the greenway. (50% of all Galway City workers live in the county, and the second largest commuter population comes from Tuam, Oranmore has the highest).

There is not the population to warrant a train service.

It would not get enough passengers to fill a single carriage on a regular commuter basis. Even if it went from Tuam to Galway city centre, it would not compete with a bus/coach service going the same way, either with the bus/coach using the M17 or the old N17 via Claregalway. The extra time for the train in comparison to a bus/coach service would not compete and that is before the fares required to just pay the running cost is taken into account.

It will never happen.

Greaney

serfboard wrote: »

Have you any numbers for this "lot"? Or any source for those numbers?

A lot of people in Tuam do agree that the line should be turned into a Greenway - several thousand in fact.

I understand what you're saying, and due to the nature of the campaign only those further along the track in Mayo have been able to comment without hassle

1) The alternative green-way meeting that took place prior to this campaign before the summer had a majority who both wanted a greenway but were also very open to looking at all viable possibilities. Furthermore we had thought that linking to the Eurovelo may be a prudent move.

2) I've been working with and coming across a few people from Tuam on various projects. We've spoke about this, and on more than one occasion they've siad they'd like the train, but feel they can't say anything or else they'll be lynched.

3) There are concerns among folk with disabilities & the elderly (some are members of actual advocacy groups for the disabled, and those who've dared to speak up on the quiet man greenway page) who think that public transport infrastructure that effects them will be once again put to the back of the queue.

l hope you'll understand if i don't name names. There's been some real nastiness in the campaign and folk who've stuck their head above the parapet have gotten stung. Finally, I would add that we also have people from Claremorris who commute to Galway to work and their chamber of commerce would like to see the line re-opened. A train line or green way has to go somewhere. Our communities are not isolated entities and this effects more than just Tuam and Athenry.

It has been my experience, that one needs an option 'b' and 'c' when taking a project to completion to be confident of success

Corca Baiscinn

Greaney wrote: »

A lot of folk would like to see the Athenry Tuam (Claremorris to Sligo) railway line re-open and alternatives be looked at for the greenway.
A lot of folk in both Tuam and Athenry (and I mean a lot) don't agree it should be turned into a greenway at the cost of future rail development!

Both "lots of folk" have political representation with Sean Canney on one side and Ciaran Cannon and Anne Rabbitte on the other and presumably local councillors too so come May & come the GE, whether that's earlier or late,r we'll see which side has most support.

The Greenways announced over last few days come from Michael Ring's budget, Shane Ross's still to come in New Year from the famous €53 million allocation. Applications for those due in by Friday so between the two lots we should eventually see a network hopefully.

Greaney

Sam Russell wrote: »

There is not the population to warrant a train service.

It would not get enough passengers to fill a single carriage on a regular commuter basis. Even if it went from Tuam to Galway city centre, it would not compete with a bus/coach service going the same way, either with the bus/coach using the M17 or the old N17 via Claregalway. The extra time for the train in comparison to a bus/coach service would not compete and that is before the fares required to just pay the running cost is taken into account.

It will never happen.

Yes, I understand your argument but from what I can gather there are over 20 buses, per day, both ways, navigating Galways gridlock. As I've said, Tuam has the second highest commuter numbers according to the last census and these number will change, and grow, but this isn't just about Tuam. Oranmore's station car park is at capacity.

We don't have a crystal ball and we need to plan for the future. Figures on the first part of the Western rail corridor are ahead of forecasts apparently, but others are saying it's a failure...
The Times

The Connaught Tribune
Look, maybe I'm bias. You see, I couldn't drive till my 30's and indeed because of that, I cycle a fair bit, so I had to rely on public transport a lot. There are alternatives to the rail for a greenway but they don't even get aired because everyone's stuck on one way of doing it and they're entrenched.

Greaney

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

Both "lots of folk" have political representation with Sean Canney on one side and Ciaran Cannon and Anne Rabbitte on the other and presumably local councillors too so come May & come the GE, whether that's earlier or late,r we'll see which side has most support.

The Greenways announced over last few days come from Michael Ring's budget, Shane Ross's still to come in New Year from the famous €53 million allocation. Applications for those due in by Friday so between the two lots we should eventually see a network hopefully.

Yes, and Iarnrod Eireann did get the finger out because of the pressure put on them by this campaign so they seem to be doing their feasibility study too. As for the €53 million, the parameters for that seem to have gotten lost in the excitement.... I believe the projects that qualify have to have their planning permission approved by March 31st 2019. I'm going to try and find a link to that because it would be prudent of our politicians who are calling for a greenway to ask the criteria be extended to include 'feasibility studies' which I dont' think it does at the moment. So I would brace myself for the Quietman greenway having a stumble with that issue. The application is not explicit in this matter but does presume planning is forthcoming. Meanwhile, I would suggest everyone take a look at the application form, it's not too difficult a read and gives you an idea of what they'd like to see the greenway deliver.

Corca Baiscinn

Greaney wrote: »

.... I believe the projects that qualify have to have their planning permission approved by March 31st 2019. I'm going to try and find a link to that because it would be prudent of our politicians who are calling for a greenway to ask the criteria be extended to include 'feasibility studies' which I dont' think it does at the moment. So I would brace myself for the Quietman greenway having a stumble with that issue. The application is not explicit in this matter but does presume planning is forthcoming. Meanwhile, I would suggest everyone take a look at the application form, it's not too difficult a read and gives you an idea of what they'd like to see the greenway deliver.

Afaik the €53 is over a number of years so only the 1st tranche will have to be ready to go to planing by March. Yes, I have read the application material and yes it is very detailed. And yes, I wondered too re the Quiet Man Feasibility study qualifying but just presumed they knew what they were doing.

You are coming across as reasonable and sincere and I absolutely love train travel but sadly I don't think you're right re the feasibility of the Claremorris Galway line. The 2012 feasibility study didn't make the case for the reopening so not sure what has changed. I dont think the 20 buses make the case either as presumably a lot of commuters are not going into Galway city centre for work but to the industrial estates, or Galway Clinic, Merlin Park. Possibly the NUIG ad UCHG staff/students could walk/bus from the station. Unless the rest took ****tle buses form Oranmore I suppose. But heavy rail is very expensive and the FF/Green Government has been burned by ad is still hearing re Ennis - Athenry. If Dublin Navan hasn't opened, then Claremorris - Galway wont

One aspect of your post genuinely confuses me though. Afaik the line closed in 1976 and the Greenway campaign is relatively new so it certainly wasn't the Greenway campaign that blocked the train line form reopening. Surely it was the other way around?, Seán Canney's insistence on the feasibility study (even though it was only 4 years since the previous review) as the price of his support for supporting the Gov meant that any plans for a Greenway were delayed . I have no idea why the tender for the study only went out recently but looks now as if both feasibility studies will happen in 2019, (If Greenway one approved)

Sam Russell

Greaney wrote: »

Yes, I understand your argument but from what I can gather there are over 20 buses, per day, both ways, navigating Galways gridlock. As I've said, Tuam has the second highest commuter numbers according to the last census and these number will change, and grow, but this isn't just about Tuam. Oranmore's station car park is at capacity.

How do the commuters get from Athenry to the final destination? Would the single track from Athenry to Galway be able to cope with all those commuters currently coming from Ennis with all the extra ones coming from Tuam as well as those coming from Athlone on the Dublin Galway train.

Would it not be possible for the 20 buses to go down the new M17 motorway to the M6 and head into Galway and if more buses were needed they could be added as and when needed.

The gridlock in Galway will not be solved with a train line from Tuam to Athenry.

what_traffic

Galway Cycling Campaign says Greenway strategy appears to be inherently unlawful

https://connachttribune.ie/galway-cycling-campaign-says-greenway-strategy-is-inherently-unlawful/

the full article is here:
http://www.galwaycycling.org/governments-new-e53-million-greenway-strategy-appears-to-be-inherently-unlawful/

Heartbreak Hank

riddlinrussell wrote: »

The plans should also be made available on KildareCoCo website... unfortunately the link doesn't work at present. Maybe by the end of the week! I'll see if Waterways Ireland has any more info.

http://kildare.ie/countycouncil/PublicConsultations-Part8Schemes/roadsandtransportation/GrandCanalGreenway/index.html

Working now.

riddlinrussell

Heartbreak Hank wrote: »

Working now.

Thanks, here is the report

Greaney

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

One aspect of your post genuinely confuses me though. Afaik the line closed in 1976 and the Greenway campaign is relatively new so it certainly wasn't the Greenway campaign that blocked the train line form reopening. Surely it was the other way around?, Seán Canney's insistence on the feasibility study (even though it was only 4 years since the previous review) as the price of his support for supporting the Gov meant that any plans for a Greenway were delayed . I have no idea why the tender for the study only went out recently but looks now as if both feasibility studies will happen in 2019, (If Greenway one approved)

I think you misunderstood me there, I didn't say the Greenway blocked the opening of the line, I said I believe the current Greenway campaign put a fire under Iarnrod Eireanns bum to get their feasibility study done. They had put them off for some time. Now I'm not sure but is this the previous study you are referring to?

There have been calls in the past to use the railway line as a green way and many of us thought that was the only way but then it has been suggested to do alternative routes to the train line. One recommendation has been to follow the 'medieval highways' (the rivers) because they are more likely to run past areas of interest (castles, priories etc.). I believe the issue regarding CPO's is different with those, because due to the threat of flooding there are easements on many of them so work can be done, these are mounds by the rivers that trails can run on top of. It was one of the suggestions an engineer, who's been doing a huge amount of work on this, for a few years, has been presenting to Government on the matter (especially when dealing with the western side of the country (the Velo). Either way, I'll use the green ways however they come.

Corca Baiscinn

Greaney wrote: »

I think you misunderstood me there, I didn't say the Greenway blocked the opening of the line, I said I believe the current Greenway campaign put a fire under Iarnrod Eireanns bum to get their feasibility study done. They had put them off for some time. Now I'm not sure but is this the previous study you are referring to?

There have been calls in the past to use the railway line as a green way and many of us thought that was the only way but then it has been suggested to do alternative routes to the train line. One recommendation has been to follow the 'medieval highways' (the rivers) because they are more likely to run past areas of interest (castles, priories etc.). I believe the issue regarding CPO's is different with those, because due to the threat of flooding there are easements on many of them so work can be done, these are mounds by the rivers that trails can run on top of. It was one of the suggestions an engineer, who's been doing a huge amount of work on this, for a few years, has been presenting to Government on the matter (especially when dealing with the western side of the country (the Velo). Either way, I'll use the green ways however they come.

No, that link looks like the feasibility study for the norther section which has allowed Sligo Co co to apply now for funding under the Greenway strategy. I The one I was referring to was a section of part 2 of the 2030 Rail Network Strategy Review which gave a low score to Tuam Claremorrris but a "possibly merits consideration" of 61 (my words, not theirs) to Tuam Athenry. but the review as far as I can see didn't take the actual capital cost of rebuilding the line and stations into consideration. I gather too that Athenry/Galway isn't double tracked so not sure it could cope with extra traffic without doing that too ad while it might be a good idea it adds to the cost.

That medieval river route might be interesting but are you saying that CPO wouldn't be a problem as the land required for flooding works anyway and could you send people cycling along land liable to flood? Haven't read up on it so can't really comment but surely there would still some opposition to going through privately owned land or would the OPW take it over?

I guess 2019 will tell a lot, I've an interest in both modes of transport ad people are crying out for transport solutions to get to from Galway but also for safe recreational infra so we'll have to see

Greaney

Corca Baiscinn wrote: »

No, that link looks like the feasibility study for the norther section which has allowed Sligo Co co to apply now for funding under the Greenway strategy. I The one I was referring to was a section of part 2 of the 2030 Rail Network Strategy Review which gave a low score to Tuam Claremorrris but a "possibly merits consideration" of 61 (my words, not theirs) to Tuam Athenry. but the review as far as I can see didn't take the actual capital cost of rebuilding the line and stations into consideration. I gather too that Athenry/Galway isn't double tracked so not sure it could cope with extra traffic without doing that too ad while it might be a good idea it adds to the cost.

That medieval river route might be interesting but are you saying that CPO wouldn't be a problem as the land required for flooding works anyway and could you send people cycling along land liable to flood? Haven't read up on it so can't really comment but surely there would still some opposition to going through privately owned land or would the OPW take it over?

I guess 2019 will tell a lot, I've an interest in both modes of transport ad people are crying out for transport solutions to get to from Galway but also for safe recreational infra so we'll have to see

Athenry to Galway not being double tracked is a problem. Athenry to Tuam interestingly seems to have the potential for being double tracked at the bridges (the span looks larger than normal but there's banks of earth in the way) but the mound is single. There's a film of when they tested the line in 2005 on youtube. It's not Oscar material but it's worth a watch for those who are interested

As for suggesting flooding easements are used, the engineer suggested that earth mounds (dykes?) would be built to stop the rivers flooding and the bikes go on top, so they wouldn't be underwater (like the Dutch:D)

Finally, I think we need to keep an open mind. I'm concerned the current green way campaign is so inflexible, that if it doesn't get it's way regarding their first suggested route, the old Tuam-Athenry line, they may drop the idea in a fit of peak and that would be an awful shame. These projects take patience, diplomacy, good will, knowledge of the subject/ governing authorities & how they work,and tenacity. I'm in no way an expert, I'm not a serious cyclist but I do consider my bike the second vehicle in the household, it's well used most days. I also organize a wee event locally on bike week, and I've made a number of submissions locally regarding simple cycle infrastructure (just bike parking) so I'm genuine and not just a keyboard warrior.:)

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

I believe the issue regarding CPO's is different with those, because due to the threat of flooding there are easements on many of them so work can be done, these are mounds by the rivers that trails can run on top of. It was one of the suggestions an engineer, who's been doing a huge amount of work on this, for a few years, has been presenting to Government on the matter (especially when dealing with the western side of the country (the Velo). Either way, I'll use the green ways however they come.

The river route is a red-herring ( if you excuse the pun). The only right of way that exists along riverbanks is "riparian", which is as it suggests - just a right of way for Fisheries & OPW workers. The issues of CPO's are actually more focused because these landowners are far more aware of their statutory rights and obligations when it comes to walkers, anglers etc. There is no Queen's highway. Landowners own to the midpoint of the river and they will be very quick to tell you so.

Greaney

Muckyboots wrote: »

The river route is a red-herring ( if you excuse the pun). The only right of way that exists along riverbanks is "riparian", which is as it suggests - just a right of way for Fisheries & OPW workers. The issues of CPO's are actually more focused because these landowners are far more aware of their statutory rights and obligations when it comes to walkers, anglers etc. There is no Queen's highway. Landowners own to the midpoint of the river and they will be very quick to tell you so.

I take that on board. That would explain why the landowners fenced of the part of the railway line in Tuam that folk were walking on so that issues of rights of way etc. would not be established by the green way campaign.

Muckyboots

Greaney wrote: »

I think you misunderstood me there, I didn't say the Greenway blocked the opening of the line, I said I believe the current Greenway campaign put a fire under Iarnrod Eireanns bum to get their feasibility study done. They had put them off for some time. Now I'm not sure but is this the previous study you are referring to?

There have been calls in the past to use the railway line as a green way and many of us thought that was the only way but then it has been suggested to do alternative routes to the train line. One recommendation has been to follow the 'medieval highways' (the rivers) because they are more likely to run past areas of interest (castles, priories etc.). I believe the issue regarding CPO's is different with those, because due to the threat of flooding there are easements on many of them so work can be done, these are mounds by the rivers that trails can run on top of. It was one of the suggestions an engineer, who's been doing a huge amount of work on this, for a few years, has been presenting to Government on the matter (especially when dealing with the western side of the country (the Velo). Either way, I'll use the green ways however they come.

Greaney wrote: »

I take that on board. That would explain why the landowners fenced of the part of the railway line in Tuam that folk were walking on so that issues of rights of way etc. would not be established by the green way campaign.

The fence in Tuam was erected as a quid pro quo for new council footpaths now placed over the line. Absolutely nothing to do with the Greenway and sanctioned long before people started clearing the line of litter and scrub. Tuam folk could never establish a "right of way" by simply walking on it.

Corca Baiscinn

Greaney wrote: »

Finally, I think we need to keep an open mind. I'm concerned the current green way campaign is so inflexible, that if it doesn't get it's way regarding their first suggested route, the old Tuam-Athenry line, they may drop the idea in a fit of peak and that would be an awful shame. These projects take patience, diplomacy, good will, knowledge of the subject/ governing authorities & how they work,and tenacity.

I'm in no way an expert, I'm not a serious cyclist but I do consider my bike the second vehicle in the household, it's well used most days. I also organize a wee event locally on bike week, and I've made a number of submissions locally regarding simple cycle infrastructure (just bike parking) so I'm genuine and not just a keyboard warrior.:)

Not sure you're being entirely fair to Greenway group in saying they're inflexible, the group was set up specifically to campaign for a Greenway on land that's already in public ownership, probably greatly inspired by the similar (as far as ownership went) WF one. If it got the go ahead people could be walking/cycling on it in a couple of years. If it were me and Quiet Man option as rejected I'm not sure I'd have the energy to start all over again campaigning for a brand new route.

Re your second point on the bike parking/bike/cycling week, well done you! If only the powers that be copped on to the positive role that the bike could play in easing so many of society's problems these initiatives would be multiplied over and over. Small things do matter. Where will I park my bike? Read o twitter today a post by a Dad (UK) who said if his son walks to school he has nowhere to put a wet coat......so many barriers to active travel

Grassey

2.7m-funding-for-county-limerick-greenway-hailed-as-major-and-historic-investment.html

marno21

https://www.radiokerry.ie/ifa-will-continue-represent-concerns-landowners-involved-south-kerry-greenway/

This is quite disappointing. It's fairly well known across Cahirciveen and the Iveragh peninsula how important this project is for the area given the rough time the place is going through. It is everyone's community after all.

Markcheese

marno21 wrote: »

https://www.radiokerry.ie/ifa-will-continue-represent-concerns-landowners-involved-south-kerry-greenway/

This is quite disappointing. It's fairly well known across Cahirciveen and the Iveragh peninsula how important this project is for the area given the rough time the place is going through. It is everyone's community after all.

As long as the ifa in the area shut the F up about, rural depopulation and lack of services investment in the area..
Yes there would be some farmers on the route with genuine concerns about access Ect and definitely they should be compensated , but most of the route is rock in the middle of nowhere...