Greenways [greenway map of Ireland in post 1]

riddlinrussell

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Also I see on the linked map on page 1 that a Foynes Limerick section is a possibility. What infrastructure would be used - old rail line or quiet country road?

Thanks

I believe at present the rail line is 'disused' but a good candidate for/planned to be reopening in the near future as a freight line. I'm already personally an advocate for greenways along 'live' railway lines (This has been done numerous times in Europe), so I would personally want it to run alongside the railway, I think similar could be achieved in various other areas of the country, especially along 'quieter' lines where you may only get a few trains a day it would temper an argument regarding who would want to use a trail that has trains running by all the time.

Jayuu wrote: »

That's because that section from Carrick to the Glanbia factory at Miloko has been there for years, long before we ever thought of the idea of Green/Blueways.

Yeah it definitely had the look of having been there a lot longer than the rest, my issue was more of a 'why didn't they update this bit when they built the rest' than 'why was this bit built to a lower standard'

serfboard

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I see on the linked map on page 1 that a Foynes Limerick section is a possibility. What infrastructure would be used - old rail line or quiet country road?

A Greenway on Foynes to Limerick railway line is not being proposed because of the potential of using the line for freight to the deepwater port that is Foynes.

However, the planned Adare bypass also includes a motorway/dual carriageway link to Foynes - if that happens then don't expect the railway line to open any time shortly after ...

marno21

serfboard wrote: »

A Greenway on Foynes to Limerick railway line is not being proposed because of the potential of using the line for freight to the deepwater port that is Foynes.

However, the planned Adare bypass also includes a motorway/dual carriageway link to Foynes - if that happens then don't expect the railway line to open any time shortly after ...

Latest:

The Deputy is probably aware that Shannon Foynes Port Company has been leading on work in relation to a potential reinstatement of the Limerick to Foynes rail line as part of the port's overall masterplan redevelopment.

The detailed design process and associated reports commissioned by Shannon Foynes Port Company were completed at the end of 2018.

The completion of this detailed design can now inform the commercial case for potential reinstatement and allows Shannon Foynes Port Company (in conjunction with Iarnród Éireann) commence a detailed market review of potential future users.



In other words, zero chance of a greenway going anywhere near that line anytime soon. And rightly so.

riddlinrussell

marno21 wrote: »

Latest:

The Deputy is probably aware that Shannon Foynes Port Company has been leading on work in relation to a potential reinstatement of the Limerick to Foynes rail line as part of the port's overall masterplan redevelopment.

The detailed design process and associated reports commissioned by Shannon Foynes Port Company were completed at the end of 2018.

The completion of this detailed design can now inform the commercial case for potential reinstatement and allows Shannon Foynes Port Company (in conjunction with Iarnród Éireann) commence a detailed market review of potential future users.



In other words, zero chance of a greenway going anywhere near that line anytime soon. And rightly so.

I am happy to advocate for it being a railway, I just don't think it precludes a greenway running alongside the railway. That said, I don't know that Foynes would be a major trip generator for either tourism or commuting so I wouldn't want to make it a 'test case' for railside cycleways.
Active railside routes I could see being good test cases for this would be Clonmel-Limerick Junction (Low use line, little demand for dual tracking/further rail works, attractive route) or Galway-Athenry (Major cycle route, key link in cycle network, high potential usage, other route options extremely contentious)

Greaney

Folk, just out of curiosity, a lot of discussion regarding greenways always seems to be about rail.

There are other options I believe, for example, at a talk I was at last year the 'medieval highways of Ireland' were brought up (aka the rivers) because
a) Using easements is an option for the trails without as many legal complications.
b) The rivers often go past a lot of historical sites of interest.

I'm currently putting together a booklet for our village for bikeweek this year and it's just about quiet roads to cycle on with places of interest along the way. Time and again the ring forts and castles of the parish come into play. That's what we as folk who like to cycle find ourselves drawn to.

riddlinrussell

Greaney wrote: »

Folk, just out of curiosity, a lot of discussion regarding greenways always seems to be about rail.

There are other options I believe, for example, at a talk I was at last year the 'medieval highways of Ireland' were brought up (aka the rivers) because
a) Using easements is an option for the trails without as many legal complications.
b) The rivers often go past a lot of historical sites of interest.

I'm currently putting together a booklet for our village for bikeweek this year and it's just about quiet roads to cycle on with places of interest along the way. Time and again the ring forts and castles of the parish come into play. That's what we as folk who like to cycle find ourselves drawn to.

In general the idea with greenways and cycleways would be to maximise utility and minimise impact, so there tends to be a focus on reusing previous man made facilities (Canals/Railways) where possible.
River environments are, in the main, an extremely sensitive environment, which comes with very strict environmental requirements for building infrastructure on the bank.
A good example of this is the Barrow Line, the river section was rejected for several reasons, but one of the main ones was that it didn't meet the environmental requirements, and its an established human impacted route (having previously been used as a navigation, and with a path already present).

I think for rivers in general there is scope for routes (Shannon, Boyne, Lagan, Liffey all have some cycle facilities both currently and in my 'potential' schemes), however it may be the case that a study of roads running near rivers, and methods of ensuring truly safe cycling along them, needs to be done, I'm sure there are examples of this having taken place in other countries.

Greaney

riddlinrussell wrote: »

In general the idea with greenways and cycleways would be to maximise utility and minimise impact, so there tends to be a focus on reusing previous man made facilities (Canals/Railways) where possible.
River environments are, in the main, an extremely sensitive environment, which comes with very strict environmental requirements for building infrastructure on the bank.
A good example of this is the Barrow Line, the river section was rejected for several reasons, but one of the main ones was that it didn't meet the environmental requirements, and its an established human impacted route (having previously been used as a navigation, and with a path already present).

I think for rivers in general there is scope for routes (Shannon, Boyne, Lagan, Liffey all have some cycle facilities both currently and in my 'potential' schemes), however it may be the case that a study of roads running near rivers, and methods of ensuring truly safe cycling along them, needs to be done, I'm sure there are examples of this having taken place in other countries.

Indeed, the talk I was at had the Shannon as an example. There were flood works build at the sides of the river, so the engineer who gave the talk was saying that the environmental impact (and legal one) of building on the flood works was minimal.

RikkFlair

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Will the Great Southern Trail eventually link up with Tralee via Listowel?
Did the old railway go from Listowel to Tralee?
Also is there a spur from Listowel to Ballybunion?

What are the crossings on the GST like? Lots of gates or cattle grids?

From photos it looks a nice route for a run with country lanes.

Also I see on the linked map on page 1 that a Foynes Limerick section is a possibility. What infrastructure would be used - old rail line or quiet country road?

Thanks

Many gate crossings between Newcastlewest and Barnagh gap section, a few were upgraded a year or so back so that you can sail right on through, but still a few gates that will break your momentum if running/cycling.

riddlinrussell

According to comments in the Dail, Waterways Ireland have a decision due on 9th of July on whether to proceed with the Canal section of the Barrow Blueway alone (Robertstown to Athy)

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2019-06-19a.423&s=Greenway#g427

MichealD

I see this on Minister Paul Kehoe's feed re New Ross - Waterford Greenway.

Del.Monte

Ah, our great local Minister Kehoe - his next mission will be to destroy the Waterford/Rosslare rail line.

MichealD

Del.Monte wrote: »

Ah, our great local Minister Kehoe - his next mission will be to destroy the Waterford/Rosslare rail line.

The ship has long sailed on the Waterford/Rosslare line. IMO a greenway in its place would be far more beneficial to local residents, the local economy in the villages on its route and would provide a direct link to the hugely successful Waterford Greenway.



Waterford – Rosslare section
On 12 March 2010 it was announced that Iarnród Éireann would review the service between Waterford and Rosslare Europort because few passengers were using it. Ticket revenue met only 2% of the line's operating costs. About 25 passengers per day were by using the service. Timetabling was poor. There was only one train each way daily from Monday to Saturday, leaving Rosslare early in the morning and returning from Waterford early in the evening.[citation needed]

The trains made very poor connections with other rail services. They connected with the Stena Line ferry service to and from Fishguard Harbour, but due to the poor onward connections at Waterford few passengers used this. The exception was during the volcanic ash crisis of 2010, when trains were fully loaded and had standing room only.[citation needed]

The last train between Waterford and Rosslare ran on 18 September 2010.[5] Iarnród Éireann provided a four-car 2700 class diesel multiple unit for the service, instead of the usual two-car unit. The National Transport Authority requires IÉ to maintain the now-disused line.[citation needed]

Bus Éireann revised the timetable and route of bus service 370 to offer alternative passenger transport from 20 September.[6] Buses on the route are branded "370 Connect".

Source - wikipedia.

Tigerandahalf

The Waterford Rosslare greenway would open up the south east to lots of tourists from France and other nearby countries with the ferry service bringing them right into the greenway network. A no brainer for that area with the good weather down there too.

serfboard

Del.Monte wrote: »

Ah, our great local Minister Kehoe - his next mission will be to destroy the Waterford/Rosslare rail line.

Whatever case might be made for Waterford to Rosslare, you're surely not advocating re-opening the Waterford to New Ross rail line - are you?

serfboard

riddlinrussell wrote: »

According to comments in the Dail, Waterways Ireland have a decision due on 9th of July on whether to proceed with the Canal section of the Barrow Blueway alone (Robertstown to Athy)

https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2019-06-19a.423&s=Greenway#g427

Thanks for posting this. Some quotes from Martin Heydon, TD (Kildare South, Fine Gael)

Martin Heydon wrote:

the people of Kildare are absolutely supportive of this project. They believe it is the right thing to do and can appreciate its great potential when we consider other greenways and blueways and the economic prosperity they have brought to other rural areas and towns and villages.

Martin Heydon wrote:

I have no doubt that some of the people in County Carlow who objected without full information on what is being sought would demand that the blueway be extended to St. Mullins if they saw it being successfully developed in County Kildare.

And this, the best of all:

Martin Heydon wrote:

Monasterevin is known as the Venice of Ireland.

I must say, that was was news to me!

Markcheese

Del.Monte wrote: »

Ah, our great local Minister Kehoe - his next mission will be to destroy the Waterford/Rosslare rail line.

Unfortunately... How many will notice...

Markcheese

So if they greenway Rosslare to Waterford, and they greenway midleton to youghal, there is a greenway/cycleway plan from midleton to cork city.. So basically just need a coastal route from dungarvan to youghal, and you've a Cork-Rosslare greenway, probably worth more economically/socially whatever than those routes as rail ever could be now..

riddlinrussell

serfboard wrote: »

Whatever case might be made for Waterford to Rosslare, you're surely not advocating re-opening the Waterford to New Ross rail line - are you?

I think that the great irony there is there's probably a greater case for a New Ross - Waterford line for commuting purposes than Waterford - Rosslare... (Assuming both railways were in exactly the same state)

Del.Monte

serfboard wrote: »

Whatever case might be made for Waterford to Rosslare, you're surely not advocating re-opening the Waterford to New Ross rail line - are you?

Where did I mention New Ross - I was just engaging in a popular activity that we have in Enniscorthy of slagging off the useless p...k.

Del.Monte

riddlinrussell wrote: »

I think that the great irony there is there's probably a greater case for a New Ross - Waterford line for commuting purposes than Waterford - Rosslare... (Assuming both railways were in exactly the same state)

Not really, there's a perfectly good road from New Ross to Waterford and the railway was only used for fertiliser once it became truncated. As I am tired of stating, the Rosslare/Waterford is part of a through route and the small amount of local traffic is irrelevant.

Big changes will have to come across all forms of transport in the near future and I don't mean EVs and driverless cars. It has always been beyond me how our European overlords have let CIE run the route into the ground given their (the EU) love for big infrastructure projects such as the Lisbon/Belfast motorway corridor and their professed intention to divert as much traffic as possible to rail.

Tigerandahalf

Funding announced for GST extension from Abbeyfeale to Listowel and Tralee to Fenit. Also a commitment to extend GST from Listowel to Tralee.

It would be the longest greenway then.

https://www.facebook.com/1594786677423577/posts/2409418272627076/

For those not on facebook
http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2019/minister-ross-and-griffin-announce-launch-bike-week-2019-along-greenway-funding-

Tigerandahalf

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Funding announced for GST extension from Abbeyfeale to Listowel and Tralee to Fenit. Also a commitment to extend GST from Listowel to Tralee.

It would be the longest greenway then.

https://www.facebook.com/1594786677423577/posts/2409418272627076/

For those not on facebook
http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2019/minister-ross-and-griffin-announce-launch-bike-week-2019-along-greenway-funding-

Funding approved for Mayo Greenway being extended out to Achill and to ferry point to Clare Island.

I also saw on something else that Centre Parcs in Longford will be linked to the Royal Canal Greenway - so potentially you could cycle from Dublin with all your gear and kids in tow.

riddlinrussell

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Funding announced for GST extension from Abbeyfeale to Listowel and Tralee to Fenit. Also a commitment to extend GST from Listowel to Tralee.

It would be the longest greenway then.

https://www.facebook.com/1594786677423577/posts/2409418272627076/

For those not on facebook
http://www.dttas.ie/press-releases/2019/minister-ross-and-griffin-announce-launch-bike-week-2019-along-greenway-funding-

Whether it would be longest does depend on the definition of Greenway... I believe the royal canal has the longest continuous section of Greenway?

Funding also approved for the 43km (to be 50km in total) of the Blessington lakes Greenway.

riddlinrussell

Dónal wrote: »

Funding also approved for the 43km (to be 50km in total) of the Blessington lakes Greenway.

Also announced the first true 'Greenway' section of the grand canal in Kildare, 23km of the Connemara Greenway from Clifden to Recess, and extending the Great Western deeper into Achill and down towards Murrisk at the other end.

Tigerandahalf

riddlinrussell wrote: »

Whether it would be longest does depend on the definition of Greenway... I believe the royal canal has the longest continuous section of Greenway?

You are right - google says 145km.
I guess the Dublin - Galway - Clifden route has the potential to be the longest if you are to include any pathway that can be fully walked or cycled. I guess there is also the issue of whether the ways are all off road with safe passings at junctions, bridges, etc.

Just to add - with all these greenways being built we mustn't be far off an orbital route along the coast of the island of Ireland. When you look at the map on page 1 you can almost see a route. It may even have the possibility of ferry crossings.

riddlinrussell

https://www.armaghi.com/news/armagh-news/detailed-designs-completed-for-four-greenway-proposals-across-borough-at-cost-over-18m/89077

Progress made on planning of four greenways in Armagh.

CatInABox

I'm usually loath to put up anything directly from a politician, but I'm not sure I'll find a more succinct summary of bribes funded projects.

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1143165753421717506

MJohnston

Galway to Clifden will be a beautiful cycle. Surprisingly lacking in much gradient work for such a mountainous area!

serfboard

CatInABox wrote: »

I'm not sure I'll find a more succinct summary of bribes funded projects.

God you're awful cynical. If that's the way you think, you could describe every bit of infrastructure spending as bribery - and maybe you do.

Me, I'm not naive enough to think that there is no political prioritisation going on, but there is an overall strategy to provide more Greenways, and anything that advances it, I welcome.

I see ten projects here, only two of which are in the GDA. Low-cost, sustainable rural infrastructure which will bring health (physical and mental) benefits to local communities as well as bringing tourists off the beaten track? I'm all for it, however it comes.