Newbie question - what suits to people wear?

beeftotheheels

Apologies if there's an existing thread on this, I haven't managed to find one (this being my first post in the forum).

My issue is as follows. I'm a pretty thin and pretty cold diver. I've never been diving in Ireland, I've always been too terrified of the cold. Have had several brushes with the cold in the sense of not enjoying the dive, using up half a tank in 10 min at 15m, and on one occasion mild hypothermia (while doing my OW, I didn't know any better and my buddy didn't know any better and the less said about that dive school the better), all in pretty warm places in August, and all before I discovered the wonders of a 7mm semi-dry (even though most divers seeing you don said suit in the Red Sea/ Caribbean/ Indian Ocean in Summer assume that you must be mad).

What I'd like would be your thoughts as to whether, if I want to dive in Ireland, I need to think only about dry suits or might I just about get away with a short john under my own suit?

Rest assured, first time I try it I will surface long before cold gets to be a real issue, and if I buy the short john and it isn't enough it might open me up to diving in cooler weather in my usual haunts so I won't consider it a waste of money (have been thinking of getting one for a while).

I just have no idea whether cold divers can even think about wet suits for diving in Ireland.

By the way, I live by the lakes in the midlands but have never really considered lake diving to be interesting (without ever having tried it) so assume if I were to try it I'd be diving off the West coast.

locum-motion

For Irish waters, using a wetsuit, I'd say you need a two piece semi-dry suit, with a minimum of 5+5mm, that is to say a 5mm full suit and a 5mm shortie so that you have 10mm on the torso and 5mm on the arms/legs.

The above would be a min - most people I think use 7+5 or 5+7 combinations.
If you are really susceptible to the cold, you may need a 7+7 combo, but it may be tricky to find one.

In all cases, you'll want 5mm gloves, hood and boots.

5+5: I used to use an Oceanic Shadow suit, before I went 'dry'. Great suit, and always kept me warm enough with the exception of once, in February.
7+5: I know some people who have used a Tigullio t52 suit and seem to be happy with it.
7+7: I bought a 7+7 suit in either Aldi or Lidl, can't remember which. Cheap and cheerful, but doesn't really fit well - too tight in spots, baggy in others - so I wouldn't really recommend it. Remember, 'baggy' = 'cold', as water sloshes about and more cold water gets in.

Sooner or later, though, most divers in Ireland eventually seem to go Dry. For me, the problem wasn't being cold on a dive, but getting back into a cold wet wetsuit for the second dive.

beeftotheheels

locum-motion wrote: »

For Irish waters, using a wetsuit, I'd say you need a two piece semi-dry suit, with a minimum of 5+5mm, that is to say a 5mm full suit and a 5mm shortie so that you have 10mm on the torso and 5mm on the arms/legs.

The above would be a min - most people I think use 7+5 or 5+7 combinations.
If you are really susceptible to the cold, you may need a 7+7 combo, but it may be tricky to find one.

In all cases, you'll want 5mm gloves, hood and boots.

5+5: I used to use an Oceanic Shadow suit, before I went 'dry'. Great suit, and always kept me warm enough with the exception of once, in February.
7+5: I know some people who have used a Tigullio t52 suit and seem to be happy with it.
7+7: I bought a 7+7 suit in either Aldi or Lidl, can't remember which. Cheap and cheerful, but doesn't really fit well - too tight in spots, baggy in others - so I wouldn't really recommend it. Remember, 'baggy' = 'cold', as water sloshes about and more cold water gets in.

Sooner or later, though, most divers in Ireland eventually seem to go Dry. For me, the problem wasn't being cold on a dive, but getting back into a cold wet wetsuit for the second dive.

My summary would be to get my head around dry!

The main reason I like my semi dry is that despite the fact that there might be a little bit of space around the body, the water doesn't get in. But absent getting a custom fit suit made I doubt I'll get one that fits perfectly, hell most clothes don't.

4th element only does a 5mm short john, not a 7mm and since I've decided I like 4th element (first suit where I didn't even think about getting cold) I might look at their dry suit range.

Ta

skippy2

If you in any way suffer from the cold forget wetsuit diving in Ireland and get a drysuit. you will save yourself time and money and be a lot warmer in the long run. used a wetsuit for my training onle and once a little more dives under my belt changed to a dry suit. You will never look back. Do a short course in drysuit use when you buy it and maybe talk to your local dive centre. Hope this helps. You also will be able to dive a lot more often than just the summer months. Keep the wetsuit/shorties for the tropics

PCPhoto

like has been mentioned above - I use 7mm and 5mm....think I picked it up in Aldi/Lidl !!! cheap as chips but does the job.

Did my open water in Kerry in March 2010 (hailstone falling on the surface of the water I was underneath nice and cosy)

haven't had any problems with cold - yet - but have dived 15dives already between Lanzarotte, Hawaii, Galway, Clare and Kerry - off to Marbella at the weekend to get another couple of dives (2 weeks holidays)

Thailand next March/April and maybe Egypt next August/Sept.

(I should also add that I work as a photographer and use all this diving as training for underwater photography - just incase you thought I was minted going off on holidays all the time - its all research/training and building a database...honest !)

drOverflow

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.

Similar question though, Would the mares flexa 5-4-3 be suitable for Irish conditions?

The 5-4-3 has 5mm core, 4mm upper arms and legs 3mm lower arms and legs. The shop said that because of the better fit with the everflex materiel, its as warm as an 6mm.

mares also do a 8-6-5 which sounds more suitable, but I can't find a stockist in Ireland where I can try it on.

Thanks
Steven

drOverflow

FYI, I currently use a northern diver delta flex 6.5+6.5

This is good, only cold on the coldest of days, 5 celcius bottom temp.

Has some niggly issues, hood neck not long enough, glideskin seals are inside rather than outside, which I thought was better, but turned out not to be.

Note that the new model delta flex has these issues corrected, it is now 7+7, longer hood neck and thicker seals the usual way around...

t1mm

A few friends of mine who have dived in the Red Sea didn't wear any suit at all and found it quite comfortable. If it takes a 7mm semi-dry to keep you warm you in that kind of water, a drysuit with a thick undersuit should be your first port of call in Irish water.

Steekers

drOverflow wrote: »

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread.

Similar question though, Would the mares flexa 5-4-3 be suitable for Irish conditions?

The 5-4-3 has 5mm core, 4mm upper arms and legs 3mm lower arms and legs. The shop said that because of the better fit with the everflex materiel, its as warm as an 6mm.

mares also do a 8-6-5 which sounds more suitable, but I can't find a stockist in Ireland where I can try it on.

Thanks
Steven

No the flexa isnt suitable for Irish conditions. I have one and thought i'd try it out last summer and was a big mistake. I use it for warm water diving.

seadeuce

Using the Red Sea as a yardstick may be flawed as the water temp differs depending on (a) what time of the year you're there and (b) where you are based.
I have seen temps of from 18 to 35 degs there as a result of the above.

One old trick for keeping warmer in a wetsuit in Irish conditions - I kid you not - is by wearing a bin liner on the upper torso; holes cut for arms/head etc.
For the lower half, a pair of women's tights keeps you warm and cosy as well as allowing you to slip into the wetsuit with ease.

Don't laugh until you've tried it.

And, yes, I would heartily recommend a 7 + 7mm semi-dry on top of the above.


Seadeuce

raouls

As mentioned, everyone has a different threshold, but likewise I really feel the cold. As such it took me a while to consider exploring Irish waters in particular as I don't feel I can justify the cost of a drysuit at yet. For the time being I found a Scubapro 5mm profile (steamer), 5mm over shorty (with hood) and 5mm semidry gloves, However I found the best investment were 3mm socks under my 5mm boots and a 2.5mm vest for good measure. With these I've been able to last almost an hour at 8 deg before my fingers and toes started to tingle.
For me I picked this combination as I like to dive as much as possible when away and I wanted something that I could use in almost any scenario, for instance I found when in the Canaries in February that the 5mm steamer was fine with a hood and gloves in 20 deg.
Obviously a new suit can offer more protection than one that may have done a few seasons with a club / centre. The main thing is to have a suit that fits properly, I've found that certain makes of suits can offer better fit / protection depending on your build.

joeKel73

I dived for the first 4 years in an Oceanic Shadow Titanium, 5mm + 5mm. We dived through the winter on the west coast and cold was never a problem.



I now dive with an O'Three dry suit, biggest advantage is getting in/out of it quickly on a cold wet Killary pier in January!

howtomake

I hate the cold myself, a few peeps kind of raise their eye brows when they have to dive with me, cuz they know I might cut it short. What I use is a very very tight fitting semi dry 7mm & 5mm, neoprene socks, and try to get the boots without a zip (I need some) they let less water in. I would highly suggest going to a good shop, the one I went to was in Bettystown, because what I thought was a tight fit, wasn't really as tight as it could be (without cutting off blood flow of course). Also I have been known to wear 2 rash vests sometimes. The other important thing I've learned is to not get yourself cold before you even take the dive, protect yourself before and after. A good hood & gloves never go wrong either.

froggy58

Personally O'Three diving suit are the best, they do customs made and off the peg, prices are very competitive but the customer service is great !!

http://www.othree.co.uk/

beeftotheheels

howtomake wrote: »

I hate the cold myself, a few peeps kind of raise their eye brows when they have to dive with me, cuz they know I might cut it short. What I use is a very very tight fitting semi dry 7mm & 5mm, neoprene socks, and try to get the boots without a zip (I need some) they let less water in. I would highly suggest going to a good shop, the one I went to was in Bettystown, because what I thought was a tight fit, wasn't really as tight as it could be (without cutting off blood flow of course). Also I have been known to wear 2 rash vests sometimes. The other important thing I've learned is to not get yourself cold before you even take the dive, protect yourself before and after. A good hood & gloves never go wrong either.

One problem for me is getting a tight fit, would probably require kids sizes. In swimming terms (having spent my growing years as a competitive swimmer and thus assuming tight swim suits were the norm, I take a 10-12 (age, not size) suit. A small ladies wet suit is aimed at the "average small lady" which I am not being average height and below average weight.

But thank you for mentioning being a lousy dive buddy because that is an issue for me. You feel so bad wanting to surface after 20 min, yet if you stay down you can use up half a tank in 10 min at practically no depth once you get cold, so you afford your buddy an extra 10 min, which you hate giving them, only to risk having to surface out at sea in any event or run out of air mid surface interval. And then you can't risk the second dive because it will take you that long, and then some, to warm up.