The dangers of too much time in carseat

Hobbitfeet

It is proven that the best positon for baby is lying flat so I really wonder about it because I see so many people carry baby in car seat and with car seat attached to pram rather than a carrycot. Heard it causes developmental problems to the spine, bad reflux problems, breathing problems and many other problems some still could be unknown. Also heard of babies dying because of being left in car seat which is really scary.

What do you think?Will you use a carrycot?How much time will you have your baby in a car seat for?Are you worried about possible negative effects?

Toots

The midwife who did my antenatal class said they don't recommend having the baby in the carseat for more than 90 mins at a time. She said if we were going on a long journey then we'd need to stop and take baby out for around 15 mins so they could lie flat. My pram has a carrycot anyway so my plan is if I'm just running in to the local shop for milk or something then I'll put the carseat in the buggy chasis, but if I'm going round the shopping centre or for a walk I'll put him in the pram so he can lie flat.

Ayla

I've also heard same as Toots, wasn't an issue for us b/c we never used a pram (so thus didn't have the carrycot/seat issue). We did use one of the carrier car seats with our first for a few months but all journeys were under 30 mins (and we'd usually take her out of the carrier upon arrival at the destination b/c it's a bloody pain toting that thing around w/o a pram). With our second we had one of those birth-4 yr carseats so leaving her in it wasn't an option.

Personally, I know why people keep their kids tied into a carrier/seat all day but I don't think it's a good idea, if only b/c the baby needs to feel human arms, not just the straps of their carrier.

Toots

I'm telling you, they should put signs up telling people this in Dundrum town centre, honestly you just see people pushing the poor babies around in the car seats for hours.

emmeim

how do you know they are there for hours - doubtful with a newborn. If I was in a shopping centre, I would use the carseat, but it would be for a maximum of one hour and a 15 min drive.

Hobbitfeet

Ok so we can't say for sure the babies are in there for hours but we can make an educated guess. Baby goes into carseat for journey to town or s/c. Then pushed around town or s/c for what an hour or 2 or 3 then back in car for journey home. This is too much time in carseat recommended time is an hour to 90 mins.

Has anyone bought a carseat new? Is it mentioned in any booklets you get with the carseat? Or mentioned by sale staff? I think it should be mentioned by sale staff they will go through all other safety features so this should be included

soddy1979

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

Ok so we can't say for sure the babies are in there for hours but we can make an educated guess. Baby goes into carseat for journey to town or s/c. Then pushed around town or s/c for what an hour or 2 or 3 then back in car for journey home. This is too much time in carseat recommended time is an hour to 90 mins.

I can tell you, I don't spend 1 or 2 or 3 hours in a shopping center. I also don't always use the car seat, but if I did I would be pretty annoyed with you for making an "educated guess" that I was being an irresponsible parent.

phasers

I don't understand how you all know that people are keeping their babies in the carseats for hours and hours. Do you follow them around?

Whenever I went shopping with any of my friends with babies they knew what they wanted and they were in and out very quick. I don't know of any mothers who spend ages browsing in shopping centres when they have their babies with them.

Hannibal Smith

I used the car seat with my boy...at that stage the public health nurses had started warning about the dangers of babies in car seats....well it was only a don't have them in it too long kind of thing. Seems like the anti-car seat campaign has stepped up a gear since then

Would I put my child in a car seat now? Yes. Will he be in it longer than 90 minutes? On the rare occasion most likely.

I see my sister in law with my niece in her arms most of the time when she's visiting people because she can't put her in her car seat for too long and she can't put her down because her head will flatten out You'd need a 4x4 if you were to bring everything around with you all the time.

Hobbitfeet

I know a good few people who only use the carseat and have their babies in them alot. When I mentioned to them the dangers of having your baby in a carseat for too long over 90 mins they looked at me like I was crazy and told me there was no danger what so ever of their baby spending 2,3 or even 4 hours at a time in the car seat. They also told me that if their baby was asleep in the car seat after a trip out they would leave them in it to sleep. Again I told them this was dangerous and has a serious effect on breathing among others, they told me I was wrong.

This is why I started this thread, to get other peoples opinions, to find out what kind of education new mothers are been given about the dangers of extended periods in carseats and to see what other mothers were doing.

The truth is some people do keep their baby in a car seat for too long at a time, whether this is due to not being educated about dangers or just not caring I don't know. Again the truth is there are many dangers to having your baby especially newborns for extended periods in a carseat.

In no way was I trying to accuse anyone specifically of being a bad mother or to specifically say you are keeping your child in a carseat for too long. If this has come across this way to you and offended you then I apologise.

Hobbitfeet

Hannibal Smith wrote: »

I see my sister in law with my niece in her arms most of the time when she's visiting people because she can't put her in her car seat for too long and she can't put her down because her head will flatten out You'd need a 4x4 if you were to bring everything around with you all the time.

A great idea if your sister is concerned about her daughter spending to much time in a car seat is a sling, really handy she will have both hands free and nice and comfy for baby

ceadaoin.

I didn't know anything about this. I'm not planning on leaving my baby in the carseat for extended periods but I bought a travel system buggy where the seat clips into the frame thinking it would be handy to use for the first couple of months for going to the shops etc. Was going to get a baby sling too so I suppose I'll just use this instead if I think I'll be out for a while.

Hannibal Smith

If my son was asleep in his car seat we left him in it too....you have to keep an eye on him...make sure his head isn't tilted forward and that he can breathe...that was just common sense though.

The baby is 3 months old now and massive, if you were to put her in a sling she'd think you're trying to put her asleep, and that would be far more dangerous

Cat Melodeon

I wasn't told anything about car seat dangers when I had my son 2 years ago, although I had read of a baby that had died as a result of being left in one for too long. However that was quite an extreme case of various forms of neglect combined with the baby having been born 9 weeks premature and left in the care of a preteen sibling. I think most parents are responsible and knowledgeable enough not to leave their new baby lying anywhere for more than 90 mins. I used the car seat when shopping and generally out and about, but never for longer than an hour at most. Leaving them lying in bouncers etc is just as bad; you rarely hear anything about those.

beanser

Hobbitfeet wrote: »

It is proven that the best positon for baby is lying flat so I really wonder about it because I see so many people carry baby in car seat and with car seat attached to pram rather than a carrycot. Heard it causes developmental problems to the spine, bad reflux problems, breathing problems and many other problems some still could be unknown. Also heard of babies dying because of being left in car seat which is really scary.

What do you think?Will you use a carrycot?How much time will you have your baby in a car seat for?Are you worried about possible negative effects?

I only heard about this recently, up until then I was thinking I'd just get the carseat and buggy and use the carseat to push the baby round in when needed for the first 6 months. I've decided to get a travel system with a carrycot now as I could be out walking for way more than 90 mins at a time.

Having said that, if I'm meeting the girls for lunch I'll drive over, and if the baby is still asleep I won't be waking them up just to take him out of the carseat, I'll just put it in the buggy chassis for the 45 mins then drive home again, all in all it would be within the 90 mins anyway.

qwertytlk

Oh my god. This is the first iv rber heard about this carsesat safety issue... I just had my first baby 9weeks ago and the pram we bought has an option to attach thecarseat onto the chassis, it also has a carrycot type option too that turns into a seat for older baby. Anyway the girl in the shop actually reccomended we use the car seat for thr first 3months at least, as the carrycot seat is only suitable from 3months. So the sales assistant never mentioned anything reagrding safety or maxium usage time. Nor does the manual from the pram/carseat. So im wondering hwere this infotmation came from, is it widely known and is it hear say ot fact? Also just wondering how the carseat can cause death, as mentioned in the original post???

Statistician

We use a lie-flat car seat. Probably one of the best things we bought.
If the baby falls asleep in the car, we can easily bring her into the house.

It's also adjustable so it can be put in a seated position.

She hated the traditional car seat and used to get roasting in it.

Acoshla

Not a parent but worked as a Sales Assistant selling buggies for a few years. One of the first things we were told to tell customers was that it is not recommended to leave baby in the car seat for more than 1.5 hours, if planning to have baby in buggy for longer than that we always suggested getting a carrycot. I would often have puzzled pregnant women looking at me and saying "But what if I want to go shopping for 7/8 hours, can't he just sleep in it all day?", there seems to be very little info for parents out there about this.

Cat Melodeon

qwertytlk wrote: »

... So im wondering hwere this infotmation came from, is it widely known and is it hear say ot fact? Also just wondering how the carseat can cause death, as mentioned in the original post???

There is evidence, it's not just hearsay. I don't have a link to the scientific evidence, but this article sums up the issues quite well:

In the last 15 years, much has been learned about keeping newborns and infants under 4 months safe. The “back to sleep” campaign is responsible for a considerable reduction in SIDS and related deaths, for example. However, there is a great deal of research into infant physiology that still has not filtered into either popular knowledge or product design.


In 1995, a study was done on infants’ oxygenation levels in their car seats. Normal oxygenation levels – that is, the amount of oxygen circulating in the blood stream attached to red blood cells – range between 97-99% in a healthy term infant in optimal positioning. Any oxygenation level below about 90% is considered “hypoxia” – the baby is not receiving enough oxygen, and brain damage can result if that level is sustained. Shockingly, healthy, full-term newborns placed in correctly positioned car seats had oxygen levels that went as low as 83.7%. In the hospital, such levels would bring teams of nurses scrambling to the infant’s rescue. While not all infants’ oxygenation levels reached such depths, there was a consistent finding that the longer the baby spent in the car seat, the lower their oxygen levels would go, until the baby was removed from the seat.



The study was repeated in 2005, with the same results. The conclusion in both studies was that babies should spend the least amount of time possible in a car seat, and they recommended that car trips with new babies be kept to an hour or less, and that infant car seats be used only in the car, and not beyond that. And yet, these studies and others like them have gone almost completely unnoticed in the United States and Canada, and it’s not uncommon to see infants in car seats for hours on end, being moved from the car to a travel system to home without ever being removed from the seat. How much damage is being done to these infants while they seem to sleep so peacefully?


Hypoxia is known to cause damage to the developing brain. Infants who experience hypoxia will show more signs of ADHD, decreased IQ, delayed motor development, and impaired attention. If these conditions sound familiar, perhaps we are beginning to understand why, as more and more children spend their infancies in some form of baby seat, reclined and in a hypoxic state.


In addition to the hypoxia seen in healthy, full-term newborns, there is also a risk due to positional asphyxia. This unfortunately is not an uncommon cause of death in infant car seats. A newborn baby’s head is very heavy, and its neck is quite fragile in comparison. Newborns, especially but not exclusively those born prematurely or with respiratory issues, are prone to having their heads tip forward onto their chests, drastically narrowing the airway (which is about the width of a drinking straw) and blocking proper flow of air. This can cause hypoxia and even death, and is a risk in any baby containment device that places the infant in a seated position, including (but not limited to) car seats, baby swings, bouncy seats, and even cloth slings, if the parent doesn’t follow positioning guidelines.

http://www.sleepingbaby.net/carseats.php

There's definitely not enough information in the public domain about this - I think safety experts are more concerned about getting folks to use carseats in the first place and may be reluctant to point out some of the dangers attached to their usage. Overall, it is safer to use a car seat than not to, but it would be wise to place limits on the use of any baby equipment which does not position an infant properly. The safest place for a baby is in your arms, after that it is lying flat on a fixed surface like a cot.


On another slightly related note, with winter approaching it's good to be aware that practically all car seat manufacturers recommend removing winter/padded coats before placing an infant in a car seat, both due to the risk of overheating and of seatbelts being compromised.

Oral Slang

qwertytlk wrote: »

Oh my god. This is the first iv rber heard about this carsesat safety issue... I just had my first baby 9weeks ago and the pram we bought has an option to attach thecarseat onto the chassis, it also has a carrycot type option too that turns into a seat for older baby. Anyway the girl in the shop actually reccomended we use the car seat for thr first 3months at least, as the carrycot seat is only suitable from 3months. So the sales assistant never mentioned anything reagrding safety or maxium usage time. Nor does the manual from the pram/carseat. QUOTE]

The 2 places I got demos for buggys from mentioned it to me - Eurobaby & Smyths (although in Smyths I brought it up first, but the girl then confirmed it to me). I got a buggy from newborn, a carseat & a carrycot in the end, because even though the buggy is from newborn, the carrycot will do me downstairs rather than having to lug the moses basket up & down the stairs. Will probably leave the carseat in the car most of the time, other than when I'm nipping into the shops for a few minutes.

beanser

Just bought a travel system from Smyths last night, only thing sales assistant mentioned was that the buggy part could only be used from 6 months onwards but never mentioned the amount of time the car seat could be used for. Will have a look tonight and see if the instruction manual says anything.

On another note, my friend says in Spain they are told it is okay up until 2 hours! Although some of her friends were told not to worry too much about smoking!!

Oral Slang

beanser wrote: »

Just bought a travel system from Smyths last night, only thing sales assistant mentioned was that the buggy part could only be used from 6 months onwards but never mentioned the amount of time the car seat could be used for. Will have a look tonight and see if the instruction manual says anything.

I got mine in Smyths last night too, we could have been there at the same time (I went to Tallaght). Which one did you go for? I got the Graco Symbio about 2 weeks ago, but brought it back & got the Graco Fusio Pramette instead, because it's from newborn & can fold without taking the seat off.

staticdoor71

so, whats the general consensus on what to buy then?

im confuzzeled??

ive not bought anything yet (only 8 weeks gone) but i have been thinking about it.. but now i dunno what to buy.. do i need to buy a car seat, a pram, a buggy and a moses basket????? Surely not?

beanser

Oral Slang wrote: »

I got mine in Smyths last night too, we could have been there at the same time (I went to Tallaght). Which one did you go for? I got the Graco Symbio about 2 weeks ago, but brought it back & got the Graco Fusio Pramette instead, because it's from newborn & can fold without taking the seat off.

Ah, that's funny, we were in Tallaght too, we got there about 8.15pm, I had a pink top and was probably looking all hot and bothered!

We just about got the last Cosatto Baby GoGo Spark, the whole thing turned into a big ordeal as they had none in stock anywhere in Dublin, so we said we'd take the display model for extra 10% off, but then there were a good few hefty scratches on the buggy part, and the worst thing was the raincover was missing. So himself went over this morning and it turned out we had to get the car seat from Tallaght and the buggy, pram, chassis, and all the other bits from Fonthill, all brand new though so happy with that.

I like the look of both of yours, mad though cos I asked the assistant the first time we were there, was there any of the car seat / buggy / chassis models that folded up all in one with the buggy seat and she said no!! Not to worry though, happy enough with what we have

beanser

staticdoor71 wrote: »

so, whats the general consensus on what to buy then?

im confuzzeled??

ive not bought anything yet (only 8 weeks gone) but i have been thinking about it.. but now i dunno what to buy.. do i need to buy a car seat, a pram, a buggy and a moses basket????? Surely not?

Listen, best you just hand your monthly wages over to the local baby shop now and be done with it!

You'll need a car seat that's for sure. For the first while you don't need a buggy really, you could always use a sling. I don't think I'll bother with a moses basket myself, I might just put the proper cot in my room. Although the moses baskets are only €30-€40 quid, but I'd deffo opt for getting a lend of one if you can (i don't know anyone with one, so just not gonna bother).

As far as the buggy goes, good luck! It's a minefield out there. I got really stressed and just let himself decide, and he picked a deadly one in the end, has car seat, pram, buggy, cosy toes, changing bag, and raincover all for €299 and it's sturdy so for us that was a bargain.

I was gonna go second hand, the average price for say a 3 in 1 second hand seems to be about €100 - €150, but if I were you I'd still think about buying a brand new car seat as you can't guarantee it has not been in a crash or dropped or something like that. So if you add the price of a car seat onto a second hand buggy for €150 you're still looking at €250 - €300. If you're getting a second hand cot or moses basket, I'd think about getting a new mattress, just to be sure of hygiene for the little one. If you're buying new watch out for the sales!

When I had my first son I used a sling for the first 4 months, during that time saved for a buggy. He slept in his big cot from the start. We didn't have a car so no car seat, walked or bus'd it everywhere. And that was it! You really could get out a second mortgage and spend it all on baby stuff if you wanted, a lot of it is unneccesary in my opinion. Having said that, if I had all the cash in the world I'd probably buy it ALL

8 weeks huh? Such an exciting time!! Congrats to you

Oral Slang

staticdoor71 wrote: »

so, whats the general consensus on what to buy then?

im confuzzeled??

ive not bought anything yet (only 8 weeks gone) but i have been thinking about it.. but now i dunno what to buy.. do i need to buy a car seat, a pram, a buggy and a moses basket????? Surely not?

For the one I got, you don't need a carrycot, as it does from newborn. The only reason I got it was to save my back hauling the moses basket up & down stairs. If the baby falls asleep downstairs, then I can just use the carrycot. My dad was buying for us & had spent €499 on the Symbio Travel System originally, so when I swapped last night, the Fusio package was €349, so adding on the carrycot cost €498, so basically the same price. Dad said to me that I may as well get it, as there was no price difference.

Hoping to get a sling myself too, as I like the idea of them for walks etc.

The Fusio is also good value I think - buggy from newborn, newborn liner, footmuff, car seat, car seat adaptors & rain covers - all for €349. The biggest seller was that you don't need to take the seat off the buggy base to fold it.

Beanser, when I went to swap it last night & told the girl the reason, she said she didn't think it folded with the seat attached & I had to tell her it did!

Hannibal Smith

staticdoor71 wrote: »

so, whats the general consensus on what to buy then?

im confuzzeled??

ive not bought anything yet (only 8 weeks gone) but i have been thinking about it.. but now i dunno what to buy.. do i need to buy a car seat, a pram, a buggy and a moses basket????? Surely not?

The pram, buggy and car seat usually come as an all in one nowadays. If you can borrow one from a friend all the better, just make sure you change the mattress in the pram.

A moses basket isn't 100% necessary, but it means you have to carry the baby in the body of the pram up and down the stairs all the time, so they're just handy.

Don't rush into buying anything...keep an ear out to what friends and relatives are using and have a think about what would suit you and your pocket. There are great sites like gumtree where people sell their second hand stuff and you can get brilliant bargains on there. But again if you're getting a cot, moses basket or pram, you will need a new mattress.

Cat Melodeon

staticdoor71 wrote: »

so, whats the general consensus on what to buy then?

im confuzzeled??

ive not bought anything yet (only 8 weeks gone) but i have been thinking about it.. but now i dunno what to buy.. do i need to buy a car seat, a pram, a buggy and a moses basket????? Surely not?

I got a buggy with a carseat attachment. Never had a pram, carrycot or moses basket. We lived in a bungalow so there was no issue with going upstairs. We've since moved to a dormer so I picked up a second hand pram (with a new mattress) from a charity shop for use downstairs and I have the cot (a cosleeper) in use from day 1 upstairs in our bedroom (same as we did for #1). I also use a sling (again 2nd hand, from ebay) but mostly just lift the baby from the car seat once I get home from wherever we were. There is a risk of them waking but if there was an issue, I just popped mine in the sling and got on with life.

I got the Graco Mosaic travel system, it was perfect as I needed a small one to fit in the Micra boot. Since upgraded to a small estate and am considering a double buggy, but no decision on that yet - it's either a double buggy or a holiday!

Hobbitfeet

Agree it can seem like so much to get and it all gets a bit expensive. I got my buggy 2nd hand from adverts.ie Maxi Cosi Mura4 with carrycot for €200 its in perfect condition like brand new so I'm happy with that. Also quite lucky my sister had a baby last October so I am getting baby bath, mosses basket, bouncer chair and lots other things from her
But I think 2nd hand websites are great can get great bargains for nearly new things

implausible

staticdoor71 wrote: »

im confuzzeled??

ive not bought anything yet (only 8 weeks gone) but i have been thinking about it.. but now i dunno what to buy.. do i need to buy a car seat, a pram, a buggy and a moses basket????? Surely not?

DO NOT buy anything yet! January sales are a good time to look. A buggy you choose now might have a newer version in 8 months. You can use the next few months to research what you want - 3 or 4 wheel, pneumatic tyres or solid, carseat onto buggy, carrycot or not?

midnightdream

I am glad somebody asked that because I was wondering as well. And I sometimes look at people in SC as well and hardly anyone has a flat Pram. however, I saw lately a few that seem to have the carseat on top (empty or with shopping bags), like clipped in and the Baby down on a flat part. Looks like they push an empty Buggy, but I like the idea.
Also I hoped to get a clip on Moses Basket style that we could use for sleeping as well, as we wont have space for a cot until we move which we plan on doing a couple of month after the birth!