Man gets prison for passing on STD

FetchTheGin

Are some people getting this?

He knew about it and KNOWINGLY passed it on!!! I think g'em seems to be the only one that has entertained that small fact.

MagicSean

Shelby Green Gymnast wrote: »

Herpes isn't an illness.



Well, that's the problem. Herpes isn't really detectable. They can do blood tests, but they're not at all reliable, as the vast majority of people will test positive for either HSV-1 or HSV-2 - both can cause cold sores and genital herpes. The only way to know for sure is to test open sores and that's impossible if the person doesn't get outbreaks, or isn't currently having an outbreak. Herpes is difficult to diagnose.





It's overlooked all the time. The majority of herpes cases are never diagnosed because the person has no symptoms or doesn't recognise the symptoms. I don't think people really get this. If you've ever been sexually active, you might well have herpes and not know it. I had a cold sore pop up out of nowhere a few years ago and my GP said I'd probably had the virus for years. If I unwittingly passed it on to an ex-boyfriend through oral sex, should he be able to drag me into court now for giving him herpes?

I don't think people are understanding the legal proofs that would be required for a conviction of this nature. The prosecution would have to proove he knew about his disease and concealed it. At the very least they would have to prove he knew about his symptoms and ignored them when a reasonable person would have done otherwise.

Sid_Justice

I think G'em is overly fighting the battle that HSV is a benign infection. How would someone here feel if their genitals erupted into purulent ulcers when they were highly stressed or had a bad cold? How would you feel if you had to wear contraception for the rest of your life due to the risk you carry of transmitting an STI you were purposely infected with. How would you feel if you were a pregnant woman and you HAD to have a delivery via caesarean section because your HSV infection was shedding?

If the person sent his spouse a letter with antrax would we be having this conversation.

Micky Dolenz

If I knocked up a woman could I be imprisoned for giving her a life long condition?, I.E parenthood.

MagicSean

g'em wrote: »

You mean unprotected sex? If someone has HSV they will either be symptomatic or asymptomatic. If you're asymptomatic then you won't know you have it unless you are tested, i.e. you're a shedder, and in this case you can pass it on without ever knowing you had it in the first place. Incredibly unfortunate. If you are symptomatic then in all likelihood you won't pass on the infection unless you have visible lesions so you avoid sex during those times.

That's my point. She will have to be ever vigilant when it comes to deciding when to have children and also put up with the fear of becoming symptomatic during pregnancy.

Sid_Justice

Shelby Green Gymnast wrote: »

It's overlooked all the time. The majority of herpes cases are never diagnosed because the person has no symptoms or doesn't recognise the symptoms. I don't think people really get this. If you've ever been sexually active, you might well have herpes and not know it. I had a cold sore pop up out of nowhere a few years ago and my GP said I'd probably had the virus for years. If I unwittingly passed it on to an ex-boyfriend through oral sex, should he be able to drag me into court now for giving him herpes?

My question related to patients in a GUM clinic being overlooked for HSV infection, not people presenting to their GP feeling run down. Read the posts before you reply to them.

g'em

Sid_Justice wrote: »

I think G'em is overly fighting the battle that HSV is a benign infection. How would someone here feel if their genitals erupted into purulent ulcers when they were highly stressed or had a bad cold? How would you feel if you had to wear contraception for the rest of your life due to the risk you carry of transmitting an STI you were purposely infected with. How would you feel if you were a pregnant woman and you HAD to have a delivery via caesarean section because your HSV infection was shedding?

If the person sent his spouse a letter with antrax would we be having this conversation.

Hang on, I didn't say it was benign at all, I'm simply saying it's not the most horrific thing in the entire world that it seems to be made out to be. Are you seriously comparing it to anthrax? I've already said that my heart absolutely goes out to the woman infected, and I'm in no way trying to belittle what's happened, but these descriptions do nothing but perpetuate the stigma that Herpes has attached to it.

Tayla

Honest question for those who don't think the man deserved jail time....

If it was your daughter who was infected by someone who knew they had it then would you still feel the same?

Sid_Justice

How would you feel if someone gave you cancer?

g'em

Sid_Justice wrote: »

How would you feel if someone gave you cancer?

It was only a matter of time before the strawman arguments came out...

Alopex

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

A cold sore is visible so I don't think it falls in the same league. As for genital warts. If you know about it you have a moral, and now legal, obligation to inform your partner.

GW would be far less serious than genital herpes. it doesn't cause pain and is curable.

pow wow

In relation to herpes in general - sex is risky business regardless of the honesty or lack thereof from your partner. Herpes is a possibility for most people who have been sexually active at some point in their lives.

Sid_Justice

Alopex wrote: »

GW would be far less serious than genital herpes. it doesn't cause pain and is curable.

Except of course if you got Human papillomavirus warts and then got cervical cancer.

g'em

Alopex wrote: »

GW would be far less serious than genital herpes. it doesn't cause pain and is curable.

It can be treated, it can't be cured.

iguana

g'em wrote: »

Agreed, but it's not fair to compare and contrast HIV and HSV infection. Like pow wow said, it trivialised HIV and overly stigmatises HSV.

The fact that HIV and Herpes aren't the same is irrelevant because the judge drew no such comparison. The judge said he equated giving someone Herpes to causing an injury which would leave a scar and he gave a similar sentence to this man that he would give to someone who caused that type of injury. As someone who had my nose broken in an assault 11 years ago I'd rate that injury quite a lot lower than someone giving me a cold sore, never mind genital herpes. Knowingly passing on an incurable viral infection is definitely > than or = to GBH.

pow wow wrote: »

Well no it isn't really. You can be sure if it had been proven he had absolute knowledge then that fact would have been reported.

It was reported, 4 times. It's right at the top of the article where it says he knowingly gave her the virus and kept quiet about the fact that he had it. Also where he said he later told the truth and where it says he pleaded guilty.

FetchTheGin

iguana wrote: »

It was reported, 4 times. It's right at the top of the article where it says he knowingly gave her the virus and kept quiet about the fact that he had it. Also where he said he later told the truth and where it says he pleaded guilty.

It is amazing that people still ignore it after 5 pages.:rolleyes:

Sid_Justice

What was his motivation?
Was it malicious? Did he aim to hurt her?
Was it due to shame / embarrassment? He didn't want to tell her he had it so just said nothing?
Was it due to carelessness? He thought it was such an insignificant infection it wasn't worth mentioning and rocking the boat (prior relationship/infidelity?)

krudler

Sid_Justice wrote: »

How would you feel if someone gave you cancer?

do you actually think you can catch cancer off someone?

please say you do...

Sid_Justice

You could catch a cancer causing infection.

pow wow

iguana wrote: »

The fact that HIV and Herpes aren't the same is irrelevant because the judge drew no such comparison.

The comparison came from the charities referring to herpes as 'trivial', not from anything the judge said.

iguana wrote: »

It was reported, 4 times. It's right at the top of the article where it says he knowingly gave her the virus and kept quiet about the fact that he had it. Also where he said he later told the truth and where it says he pleaded guilty.

The headline says he did it 'knowingly', but nowhere within the article does it say that he absolutely knew before he had sex with her, which to me is a glaring omission in the story. The 'telling the truth' you're referring to came much later in the relationship and could very well have been due to being diagnosed at a later point. Without any of us seeing the documents the judgement could be based on his plea and the fact that he lied when he knew there was a chance he had it. I'm not saying he didn't know, but I find it rather odd that a fine newspaper like DM wants to be all sensational about it but neglect to mention whether he absolutely knew he had it, or just knew there was a chance he had but lied about it.

Sid_Justice

Sid_Justice wrote: »

My question related to patients in a GUM clinic being overlooked for HSV infection, not people presenting to their GP feeling run down. Read the posts before you reply to them.

Eh, that's exactly what I was talking about. Didn't mention a thing about men going to a GP or feeling run down - perhaps you should read posts more carefully? Most people who go to a GUM clinic are NOT tested for herpes because it's VERY difficult to test for and diagnose. Even if a person presents with symptoms, it's still perfectly possible for them to be written off as something else or for a swab to come back with a false negative result. I used to work in a sexual health clinic, so if you have any non-sarcastic questions, feel free to ask.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Except of course if you got Human papillomavirus warts and then got cervical cancer.

Except of course that the strains of HPV which cause genital warts are not the ones which cause cervical cancer, so eh, no.

Stinicker

If she gave him Herpes the Judge would bang his hammer along with the words dismissed and a snigger at yer man. Sex is a risky business and it takes two to tango, if she was so concerned why didn't she make him use condoms or abstain. If the gender roles were reversed guaranteed it would be a non story or event.

Penis = Evil
Vagina = Dandelions and fluffy clouds.

iguana

pow wow wrote: »

The headline says he did it 'knowingly', but nowhere within the article does it say that he absolutely knew before he had sex with her, which to me is a glaring omission in the story. The 'telling the truth' you're referring to came much later in the relationship and could very well have been due to being diagnosed at a later point. Without any of us seeing the documents the judgement could be based on his plea and the fact that he lied when he knew there was a chance he had it. I'm not saying he didn't know, but I find it rather odd that a fine newspaper like DM wants to be all sensational about it but neglect to mention whether he absolutely knew he had it, or just knew there was a chance he had but lied about it.

Another article (also in the DM) has more detail from Scott's point of view. Apparently he told her he transmitted it on purpose so no-one else would want her.

Golding revealed the truth last year and admitted transmitting the infection to her.

Miss Lee, from Daventry, Northamptonshire, said: 'I felt sick and was crying so much I couldn't breathe.

'He said he knew if I had it no one else would want me.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027167/My-callous-lover-gave-herpes-want-me.html#ixzz1VKNJSzpr

sock puppet

Stinicker wrote: »

If she gave him Herpes the Judge would bang his hammer along with the words dismissed and a snigger at yer man. Sex is a risky business and it takes two to tango, if she was so concerned why didn't she make him use condoms or abstain. If the gender roles were reversed guaranteed it would be a non story or event.

Penis = Evil
Vagina = Dandelions and fluffy clouds.

The most high profile of these types cases involved the conviction of a woman.

MagicSean

Stinicker wrote: »

If she gave him Herpes the Judge would bang his hammer along with the words dismissed and a snigger at yer man. Sex is a risky business and it takes two to tango, if she was so concerned why didn't she make him use condoms or abstain. If the gender roles were reversed guaranteed it would be a non story or event.

Penis = Evil
Vagina = Dandelions and fluffy clouds.

She was in a long term relationship. Trust is a given in those. Not sure if you've had one. I see nothing to support your claim that if the sexes were reversed the result would be different.

Sid_Justice wrote: »

What was his motivation?
Was it malicious? Did he aim to hurt her?
Was it due to shame / embarrassment? He didn't want to tell her he had it so just said nothing?
Was it due to carelessness? He thought it was such an insignificant infection it wasn't worth mentioning and rocking the boat (prior relationship/infidelity?)

He wanted sex.

MagicSean

iguana wrote: »

Another article (also in the DM) has more detail from Scott's point of view. Apparently he told her he transmitted it on purpose so no-one else would want her.

Guess I was wrong. He didn't just want sex. He's a sociopath.

Alopex

Sid_Justice wrote: »

Except of course if you got Human papillomavirus warts and then got cervical cancer.

Genital warts are not connected to cervical cancer. They are caused by different strains of HPV. One doesn't cause the other.

g'em wrote: »

It can be treated, it can't be cured.

It often can. not as easily as taking an anti-biotic for a bacterial infection but so long as you keep having it treated your immune system can eliminate the virus altogether. This is far more unlikely to be successful with Herpes.

Don Juan DeMagoo

g'em wrote: »

I love it when folk add two and two together and get zebras, where did I say that? Of course he did wrong, very, very wrong, he had a moral obligation to tell her and lying about it made it more reprehensible. But jail time?

Some people can be heartless husks, who still knowingly continue to satisfy their own needs with little concern for others well being no matter what they have. I agree it may be heavy handed but I would be more miffed if nothing was done besides he sounds like a cretin.

Capt'n Midnight

Micky Dolenz wrote: »

If I knocked up a woman could I be imprisoned for giving her a life long condition?, I.E parenthood.

if you didn't pay child support

Capt'n Midnight

niallsparky wrote: »

Surely it's a good thing that a strict precedent has been set? A sentence like this may discourage others from doing something as reprehensible as this.

One thing that makes it different is that it's a notifiabe disease, something that is a public health issue

http://www.hpsc.ie/hpsc/NotifiableDiseases/ListofNotifiableDiseases/ IE
http://www.salford.gov.uk/nid.htm UK

The only circumstances in which notification is not required is when the doctor has reason to believe that a colleague has already notified the case. This is not a voluntary reporting system and there are financial penalties for failing to notify a case of a notifiable infection disease.

ItsAWindUp

What a prick.

Alopex

http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,713955,00.html

woman knowingly spreads hiv - only gets 2yr suspended sentence

wild_cat

discus wrote: »

Genital herpes and genital warts can be passed on, even when a condom is worn. The affected area is usually the base of the penis, scrotum and in/around the pubes. Wearing a condom wouldn't really lower the chance of contracting it.

Good old Irish Sex education going on with me.

johnners2981

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

She was in a long term relationship. Trust is a given in those. Not sure if you've had one. I see nothing to support your claim that if the sexes were reversed the result would be different.

Maybe you should read the article before posting comments about it. She was not in a long term relationship when the infection was transmitted.

Not sure if you've had one, but the beginning of a relationship doesn't equate to a long term relationship.

"I see nothing to support your claim that if the sexes were reversed the result would be different"

Alopex's link seems to support that
http://www.spiegel.de/international/...713955,00.html

AudreyHepburn

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

Why? Is it that people sometimes get low sentences for these crimes or are you referring to those that haven't been convicted?

Well both I suppose.

It just seems that they couldn't jail this guy quick enough yet they seem almost afraid to jail serious offenders or they let them out on good behaviour as quick as possible.

Put it like this, if there was one cell left in Mountjoy and I was given the choice to let say a child molester or this man go free, despite the fact he might infect some-one else, I know which one I'd choose.

up for anything

I wonder if anyone here would start a sexual relationship with her knowing that she had Herpes. I think I'd steer well clear of someone I knew had any sort of STI that could be passed on regardless of condom use.

What he did by passing on it knowingly without telling her is pretty low and in my opinion deserves jail time. Whether the sentence he received is commensurate with the crime is another topic.

Cianos

Around 16% of people have herpes, so if you've slept with more than 6 people, chances are you have slept with someone with herpes. There's quite a big stigma around something that is in the vast majority of cases quite trivial.

g'em

up for anything wrote: »

I wonder if anyone here would start a sexual relationship with her knowing that she had Herpes. I think I'd steer well clear of someone I knew had any sort of STI that could be passed on regardless of condom use.

Read today that she's in a relationship now and has had a baby with her new partner - he knew from the start that she had it but it doesn't bother him, they're just careful when needs be.

c_man

Cianos wrote: »

Around 16% of people have herpes, so if you've slept with more than 6 people....

*collective sigh of relief from all boardsies* :pac:

Run_to_da_hills

On release from prison the fcuker should be branded.

Cianos

Cianos wrote: »

Around 16% of people have herpes, so if you've slept with more than 6 people, chances are you have slept with someone with herpes. There's quite a big stigma around something that is in the vast majority of cases quite trivial.

Exactly. The stigma is the worst part of herpes. There's a whole lot of fuss and shame around something that's essentially an annoying skin condition. People don't react like this to cold sores - well, that's exactly what herpes is, a cold sore 'down there'. Cases like this one only serve to perpetuate the stigma and make people with herpes feel even more like freaks, IMO.

I don't know how this man was ever found guilty. With viruses, it's impossible to prove who got what from who. If this woman wasn't a virgin before she was with this man, it's entirely possible that she already had the virus anyway. I had a cold sore pop up randomly when I hadn't kissed anyone or shared a drink in well over 6 months, the same can happen with genital herpes or any virus. The truth is, this is the risk you take when you have sex. You can request your partner to have an STI screening but for the things they don't screen for (herpes, HPV and other skin conditions), you just have to cross your fingers. It's incredibly immature to blame your sexual partners for passing things on, especially in cases where they weren't aware they had the condition.

As for the person who brought up people 'giving you cancer' - are you aware that the VAST MAJORITY of men and women are infected with the strains of HPV that cause cervical cancer? Unless you're a virgin, you probably have it yourself, or have had it. How would you feel if a ex-girlfriend took you to court because she developed cervical cancer? The fact is that most people clear HPV from their bodies long before it does them any harm. It is a harmless virus for most people. If it causes problems for some people, that isn't the fault of the person they slept with. And I say this as someone who has had, and probably will still need, treatment for abnormal cells on the cervix. I wouldn't dream of blaming my partner for this. It's just one of those things. If you can't handle it, don't have sex. Taking someone to court for giving you HPV is like taking someone to court for sneezing on you and giving you the flu.

MagicSean

Shelby Green Gymnast wrote: »

I don't know how this man was ever found guilty.

The guilty plea probably played a large part.

Seanbeag1

Seanbeag1 wrote: »

The guilty plea probably played a large part.

It shouldn't have been brought to court in the first place, IMO. In this case, fine, it sounds like he did transmit it on purpose, but it sets a worrying precedent. There is still no proof whatsoever, unless the girl was a virgin beforehand, that she got herpes from him.

iguana

Shelby Green Gymnast wrote: »

People don't react like this to cold sores

Actually a lot of people do. Most people I know were incredibly conscious about avoiding cold sores when we were single. Anyone I know who is in a relationship where one partner gets cold sores (including my own marriage as my husband gets them) are very vigilant to avoid transmission. A close friend of mine who gets them has said she will never forgive herself if she passes them onto her husband and she hates the person who gave them to her. (She ended up in hospital with her primary infection because she was so sick with it.) Couples I know where both people have the infection do everything they can to avoid cross infection between them.

up for anything

g'em wrote: »

Read today that she's in a relationship now and has had a baby with her new partner - he knew from the start that she had it but it doesn't bother him, they're just careful when needs be.

I'm happy for her.

iguana

iguana wrote: »

Actually a lot of people do. Most people I know were incredibly conscious about avoiding cold sores when we were single. Anyone I know who is in a relationship where one partner gets cold sores (including my own marriage as my husband gets them) are very vigilant to avoid transmission. A close friend of mine who gets them has said she will never forgive herself if she passes them onto her husband and she hates the person who gave them to her. (She ended up in hospital with her primary infection because she was so sick with it.) Couples I know where both people have the infection do everything they can to avoid cross infection between them.

Well, most people don't. I do understand people trying not to get them, but it's really quite futile a lot of the time. They are so, so easy to get, that's why most people have the virus by the time they reach adulthood. I probably got mine from a routine 'greeting' kiss on the cheek while I was living in Belgium, but it could have been anything, really. I'm sure I shared cups and borrowed other girls' lip balm when I was in primary school. My granny gets cold sores and I'm sure she kissed me when I was a baby.

The things with cold sores is that they are often passed on when the other person has no symptoms, so unless you never kiss your partner, there's still a good chance of transmission, especially right before a cold sore pops up. I also avoid kissing my boyfriend or sharing food/utensils when I have a cold sore, but if I do pass it on, so what? There are FAR worse things to be concerned about and cold sores really are just one of those things you get in life. The majority of people who have the virus DON'T get outbreaks, so it's quite possible that my boyfriend already has the virus and just doesn't get symptoms.

Your friend who says she will 'never forgive herself' if she passes them on to her husband, well that's a massive overreaction. HIV? Hepatitis? Yes, I'd understand. Cold sores? Get some perspective. I thought I was a bit of a drama queen about these things, but jeez. The fact is, we don't and we can't live in a bubble. When you share your life with people, you sometimes pass things on. Hell, you can get plenty of much more dangerous and even potentially fatal things from strangers, just from sitting next to them on a train or plane. You can get nasty skin infections from shaking someone's hand. If you thought about all the nasties out there, you'd never leave the house.

iguana

Shelby Green Gymnast wrote: »

Your friend who says she will 'never forgive herself' if she passes them on to her husband, well that's a massive overreaction. HIV? Hepatitis? Yes, I'd understand. Cold sores? Get some perspective. I thought I was a bit of a drama queen about these things, but jeez.

Did you read the bit where I said her primary infection put her in hospital because she was so sick with it? You think someone who has to be hospitalised with a virus is a drama queen for not wanting to infect their loved ones with it? Seriously? The virus attacked her central nervous system and she was told she was very lucky to recover as completely as she did and that she wouldn't have if she had even been a few hours later in getting treated.

HSV-1 isn't always slightly irritating but benign. In fact there is mounting evidence that in people who carry gene allele APOE-ϵ4 HSV-1 increases the risk of Alzheimer’s disease. http://www.neurobiologyofaging.org/article/S0197-4580%2899%2900055-X/abstract

iguana

iguana wrote: »

Did you read the bit where I said her primary infection put her in hospital because she was so sick with it? You think someone who has to be hospitalised with a virus is a drama queen for not wanting to infect their loved ones with it? Seriously? The virus attacked her central nervous system and she was told she was very lucky to recover as completely as she did and that she wouldn't have if she had even been a few hours later in getting treated.

HSV-1 isn't always slightly irritating but benign. In fact there is mounting evidence that in people who carry gene allele APOE-ϵ4 HSV-1 increases the risk of Alzheimer’s disease. http://www.neurobiologyofaging.org/article/S0197-4580%2899%2900055-X/abstract

Yes, I did. It's understandable to feel like that but it's still crazy. Reactions like that are incredibly rare. There are people who get bad reactions to things most people tolerate perfectly well. It doesn't mean your friend has a super strain of herpes that will kill anyone who catches it. It means her body had a particularly bad reaction to the first outbreak and it's very, very, very unlikely that her husband would experience the same. The point is is that feeling guilty about transmitting a common virus like oral herpes is insane. It's just illogical. First of all, unless she never kisses her husband, there's not a lot she can do about it anyway. He's an adult, he has made the (logical) choice to accept the risk. Secondly, if he isn't already infected with HSV (and there's a very good chance that he is, unless he's been blood tested for it), he can still get it from being kissed on the cheek or from drinking out of a pub glass that hasn't been washed properly or any number of other ways. Finally, people with existing HSV-1 on the face are much, much less likely to get it on their genitals via oral sex. I know where I'd rather get it.

amacachi

I think it's time we were all just put in bubbles, save the courts hassle.

B_Fanatic

WHAT! Did no one else see that? The judge used LOVE as an excuse to bump up the sentence. Sure I agree he got off light, but the judge actually used love as an excuse for the sentence length....

While we're using love as a factor, why don't I get off light for killing my cheating girlfriend? What she did amounted to betrayel! (Hypothetical)