Off-lead dogs approaching on-lead dog

Zapperzy

Just want to get some opinions and views on this.

My dog is always on a lead, both because he has no recall and because he has other dog issues. By issues I mean he barks and lunges at other dogs, to someone who doesn't know him he looks fierce but even when he is close enough to another dog to bite them he never ever has bitten another dog. I could speculate all day as to why he is like this, in short I guess fear-aggression, under socialisation and the lead certainly does not help matters. Have seen a trainer and tried what she suggested and no difference. I have done numerous things to change this behaviour so it's not as if I believe just because he is a small dog I'm ignoring this behaviour or think it's cute.

It has happened numerous times now but most recently today. Off lead dogs approaching my on lead dog. Sometimes the owner is there, sometimes not, if the owner is within earshot I tell them my dog isin't too friendly with other dogs. I let the dogs sniff, usually my guy is ok with this initially but as soon as I go to pull him away or the other dog walks away it all kicks off. Sometimes the owner of the other dog throws a filthy look, sometimes they don't even seem to care, if they seem to care I mutter a sorry as I'm dragging my dog away.

Most recent one was today on the beach. German woman approaches with a beautiful greyhound, her dog approaches mine, she's only a few feet away and can probably read our body language saying that we are uncomfortable with her dog, so she says oh don't worry she's ever so gentle to which I reply well mine isin't so friendly. I don't really have any option of no confrontation as her dog is determined to meet ours. They sniff for a few seconds then my fella lunges and barks. The woman was shocked and let out a little oh, I muttered sorry and dragged mine away.

I think sometimes he should have a muzzle on him but then he has never bitten another dog (even though he has had plenty of opportunities with offlead dogs approaching him) and he is always on a lead, and he loves running on the beach after his ball and picking up seaweed which he couldn't do with a muzzle, and he's definitely not in any way people aggressive. At least if I had a muzzle on him people might actually bother calling there dogs back if they see a muzzle. I do use a halti sometimes so I guess to some that would look like a muzzle.

So in a situation like this who is wrong? If you were the owner of the greyhound what would you be thinking? Of course I feel guilty about my fella lunging at another happy go lucky dog (and I would worry about them becoming small dog fearful or aggressive because of it ) but my dog is on a lead and if the owner is actually within earshot I tell them my dog is not friendly, usually even if they try to call them away the dog never responds so what more can I do. :rolleyes:

Oranage2

Zapperzy wrote: »

Just want to get some opinions and views on this.

My dog is always on a lead, both because he has no recall and because he has other dog issues. By issues I mean he barks and lunges at other dogs, to someone who doesn't know him he looks fierce but even when he is close enough to another dog to bite them he never ever has bitten another dog. I could speculate all day as to why he is like this, in short I guess fear-aggression, under socialisation and the lead certainly does not help matters. Have seen a trainer and tried what she suggested and no difference. I have done numerous things to change this behaviour so it's not as if I believe just because he is a small dog I'm ignoring this behaviour or think it's cute.

It has happened numerous times now but most recently today. Off lead dogs approaching my on lead dog. Sometimes the owner is there, sometimes not, if the owner is within earshot I tell them my dog isin't too friendly with other dogs. I let the dogs sniff, usually my guy is ok with this initially but as soon as I go to pull him away or the other dog walks away it all kicks off. Sometimes the owner of the other dog throws a filthy look, sometimes they don't even seem to care, if they seem to care I mutter a sorry as I'm dragging my dog away.

Most recent one was today on the beach. German woman approaches with a beautiful greyhound, her dog approaches mine, she's only a few feet away and can probably read our body language saying that we are uncomfortable with her dog, so she says oh don't worry she's ever so gentle to which I reply well mine isin't so friendly. I don't really have any option of no confrontation as her dog is determined to meet ours. They sniff for a few seconds then my fella lunges and barks. The woman was shocked and let out a little oh, I muttered sorry and dragged mine away.

I think sometimes he should have a muzzle on him but then he has never bitten another dog (even though he has had plenty of opportunities with offlead dogs approaching him) and he is always on a lead, and he loves running on the beach after his ball and picking up seaweed which he couldn't do with a muzzle, and he's definitely not in any way people aggressive. At least if I had a muzzle on him people might actually bother calling there dogs back if they see a muzzle. I do use a halti sometimes so I guess to some that would look like a muzzle.

So in a situation like this who is wrong? If you were the owner of the greyhound what would you be thinking? Of course I feel guilty about my fella lunging at another happy go lucky dog (and I would worry about them becoming small dog fearful or aggressive because of it ) but my dog is on a lead and if the owner is actually within earshot I tell them my dog is not friendly, usually even if they try to call them away the dog never responds so what more can I do. :rolleyes:

Muzzle should solve that problem. In my opinion any dog that's aggressive towards other dogs be it on a leash should year a muzzle

DBB

Zapperzy wrote: »

So in a situation like this who is wrong? If you were the owner of the greyhound what would you be thinking? Of course I feel guilty about my fella lunging at another happy go lucky dog (and I would worry about them becoming small dog fearful or aggressive because of it ) but my dog is on a lead and if the owner is actually within earshot I tell them my dog is not friendly, usually even if they try to call them away the dog never responds so what more can I do. :rolleyes:

In the eyes of the law, you're in the right Zapperzy. Your dog is under effectual control, the grey wasn't. Once your dog is on-lead, the owner of an off-lead dog would have it all to do to argue that you are in the wrong in this case.
I'm probably telling the priest his prayers here, but if you can at all, take a circuitous route around other dogs, duck into gateways, do whatever you need to do to prevent your dog from having to meet others face to face. Having said that, you said your lad was able to have a sniff today before he snarked off: this gives you something to build on. If he is able to carry out even basic social behaviours like sniffing, you can build on this, at least to some extent.

Magill

Zapperzy wrote: »

Just want to get some opinions and views on this.

My dog is always on a lead, both because he has no recall and because he has other dog issues. By issues I mean he barks and lunges at other dogs, to someone who doesn't know him he looks fierce but even when he is close enough to another dog to bite them he never ever has bitten another dog. I could speculate all day as to why he is like this, in short I guess fear-aggression, under socialisation and the lead certainly does not help matters. Have seen a trainer and tried what she suggested and no difference. I have done numerous things to change this behaviour so it's not as if I believe just because he is a small dog I'm ignoring this behaviour or think it's cute.

It has happened numerous times now but most recently today. Off lead dogs approaching my on lead dog. Sometimes the owner is there, sometimes not, if the owner is within earshot I tell them my dog isin't too friendly with other dogs. I let the dogs sniff, usually my guy is ok with this initially but as soon as I go to pull him away or the other dog walks away it all kicks off. Sometimes the owner of the other dog throws a filthy look, sometimes they don't even seem to care, if they seem to care I mutter a sorry as I'm dragging my dog away.

Most recent one was today on the beach. German woman approaches with a beautiful greyhound, her dog approaches mine, she's only a few feet away and can probably read our body language saying that we are uncomfortable with her dog, so she says oh don't worry she's ever so gentle to which I reply well mine isin't so friendly. I don't really have any option of no confrontation as her dog is determined to meet ours. They sniff for a few seconds then my fella lunges and barks. The woman was shocked and let out a little oh, I muttered sorry and dragged mine away.

I think sometimes he should have a muzzle on him but then he has never bitten another dog (even though he has had plenty of opportunities with offlead dogs approaching him) and he is always on a lead, and he loves running on the beach after his ball and picking up seaweed which he couldn't do with a muzzle, and he's definitely not in any way people aggressive. At least if I had a muzzle on him people might actually bother calling there dogs back if they see a muzzle. I do use a halti sometimes so I guess to some that would look like a muzzle.

So in a situation like this who is wrong? If you were the owner of the greyhound what would you be thinking? Of course I feel guilty about my fella lunging at another happy go lucky dog (and I would worry about them becoming small dog fearful or aggressive because of it ) but my dog is on a lead and if the owner is actually within earshot I tell them my dog is not friendly, usually even if they try to call them away the dog never responds so what more can I do. :rolleyes:

My boxer (Female) is the same, we have 4 dogs and around people and our dogs/cat shes as gentle as anything but with most other dogs she'll get agressive. I keep her on the lead if I walk her in the park or around the roads (I typically walk them in ze mountains) and i just pull her away from any other dogs...

Your in the right tho, if their dog is off the lead they really can't complain. No need for a muzzle unless you can't handle him when he pulls.

john t

Oranage2 wrote: »

Muzzle should solve that problem. In my opinion any dog that's aggressive towards other dogs be it on a leash should year a muzzle

Zappery i suggest you watch amd listen lean from a tv programme.the dog whisperer, caesar milan.........you can learn from him..

meoklmrk91

OP you are in the right, you have your dog on a lead the other owner didn't, by law dogs should always be on a lead in a public place.

This is a personal pet peeve of mine, even though my dog isn't aggressive. I really do think each town in Ireland should have a dog park where people can take their dogs to go off leash and have some fun in a safe environment. But outside the dog park there should be no such thing as off leash. I know people might say that it is unfair to those who don't have aggressive dogs, however I am one of those people and I still think it would make things far less problematic.

ferretone

You are completely in the right, as other posters have said. This is one of the situations where I immediately recall my dog, long before she would make any approach. In my book, it's never ok for an off-lead dog to approach one that is leashed, as that is a situation that is threatening to any dog. I just wish all owners were more aware of this.

It's far from the only reason for me, but these owners ought to at least realise they are putting their own dogs in danger with their carelessness! It likely won't be your dog that does it, but there's a strong possibility they'll one day meet one who just won't tolerate the threat, and attacks!

For your own situation, tho, I'd take DBB's advice, as she's seldom wrong on such issues. Well, I've never personally known her be wrong with training/behaviour advice actually, but as it's a situation where you have lamentably little control over developments, infallibility would be awful hard to come by. :rolleyes:

Cú Giobach

meoklmrk91 wrote: »

OP you are in the right, you have your dog on a lead the other owner didn't, by law dogs should always be on a lead in a public place.

This is a personal pet peeve of mine, even though my dog isn't aggressive. I really do think each town in Ireland should have a dog park where people can take their dogs to go off leash and have some fun in a safe environment. But outside the dog park there should be no such thing as off leash. I know people might say that it is unfair to those who don't have aggressive dogs, however I am one of those people and I still think it would make things far less problematic.

By law only dogs on the restricted breeds list have to be on a leash, the law states a dog must be under control, a well trained off lead dog is within the law.

There should be no such thing as off leash? Hmmmm.....
I'm off to the beach shortly with two dogs and going to be using one of those ball throwing sticks and letting them run and run and run, I shall continue doing this until Either myself or my dogs are no longer alive or I am imprisoned for being a menace to society.
F*** The begrudgers.

mymo

I walk my dogs on the lead normally, but there are some places I let them run free.
If I see another dog on a lead, I put mine on the lead, to me it is just respect for other owners. They have their dog on a lead, my dogs would be a little apprehensive of some off lead dog approaching them while they were on the lead, so I assume they are the same.

By some dogs I mean I think my dog is racist, only likes yellow labs, hates the brown and not keen on the black labs, fine with pretty much every other dog, anyone ever have this?

star-pants

I've no issue with off lead dogs, but *only* if they are fully under the control of their owner. I've been tied up in knots due to 'off lead' dogs who are 'only friendly' whilst mine are on leads and I've asked the owners to keep their dogs from mine. It ticks me right off.

If a dog comes up and I ask you to call it away, and you can't then that's a problem.
I've no problems with dogs coming up to me, but I don't want dogs bounding up to my two who are on leads and thus more vulnerable and can cause panic if my dogs don't want to know the other dog.

I don't like this 'oh mine is only saying hello' and stand there whilst there dogs' nose is trying to get up the backside of one of mine who is very clearly not comfortable with it.
I've often said 'well mine are quite nervous' (i.e. back off) but it can be ignored.

My dogs have every right to growl or give out to a dog that is in their personal space if they're given no choice in the matter. As would I if a person was in my personal space without my consent.
That said I've come across lots of off lead dogs who are under the control of the owner or not interested in us and that's been perfectly fine, no issue with that. It's the ones that aren't under control that bother me.

Oops lengthy post! lol In response to the OP - I don't see why you should have to muzzle your dog, it's on a lead and doesn't appear to be an aggressive/biting dog.

Oranage2

I think this thread is going to pan out like how society is generally going. We don't reward the good social dogs, instead we place heavy restrictions on every dog cause a few crap owners won't socialize their dogs.

Also being forced to walk your dog on a lead especially active breeds like boxers in my opinion is dog abuse. No way walking is enough exercise and now the dog is being punished because of a 'bad owner'not bothering to train the dog . Ive a springer and he needs at least 2.5h off lead minimum, walking wouldn't be enough, he likes to sniff other dogs, if they snap then he backs off, i know if every dog was on a lead it would save these bad owners the embarrassment but if you're not gonna socialize the dog then you're not a fit owner-

planetX

It's pretty basic common sense to put your dog back on a lead when approaching another on lead. My fear would be that one day one of those dogs will retaliate to yours and you'll end up with a fight with you attached. If you are warning people away then you've done your bit, no way should you have to muzzle your dog.

star-pants

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think this thread is going to pan out like how society is generally going. We don't reward the good social dogs, instead we place heavy restrictions on every dog cause a few crap owners won't socialize their dogs.

I don't think people are saying that - as I said there's no issues with dogs off lead but they should be under control of the owner.
I stop and say hello to lots of dogs with my dogs, some off lead, some on lead - but I don't appreciate dogs not under control just bounding up and not leaving my dogs alone.
That does not make me an unfit dog owner.

mymo

I have no problem with walking dogs off the lead, if I meet a dog off the lead I leave mine off. My dogs are generally friendly (apart from the one issue mentioned with dark coloured labs and one of my dogs), I am trying to teach my very excitable boy to wait and greet a dog with manners, like I would like other to do. An off lead dog charging at my dogs, with me having no idea if its friendly or not is my issue. (just last week my small dog was attacked again by an off leash dog that the owner claimed was just playing:mad: 2 puncture wounds is not just playing)
Out of respect for others, if I see an on lead dog, I put mine back on the lead, I'd appreciate others doing the same.

littlebug

My dog was similar when I got her and exposure to offlead dogs has actually really helped. I actually love to see them coming over to her.... with one or two exceptions where they only come over to attack:(. Mine is worse with dogs on leads especially if their owner is pulling them back. If I say a big friendly hello to the people before we get too close (ie with lead still loose) that helps, better again if they stop and talk. Cue crazy lady here almost forcing all people with dogs to stop and talk better again if we talk for so long that the dogs get used to each other, distracted and looking around, then that reaction as we start walking away doesn't happen. Thankfully there are plenty of other crazy dog people around who seem to enjoy stopping to talk to us . If the other dog is a bit too jumpy and in her face she might react negatively but with a head collar on she's easily controlled. Head collar I think is key for us as I'm much more relaxed as I know I can easily control any lunge that might happen.

TG1

OP, you're totally in the right here. And this is from a dog owner who allows their dog off the leash.
My dog is walked in parks etc. off the lead, but we are often accompanied by a friend of mine who has a miniature yorkshire terrier who has a few dog issues. the terrier has known my guy since he was a pup so tolerates him, but if another dog runs up to her and starts to sniff etc. she will growl and snap. Again, other dog owners, despite getting numerous warnings will get offended when this happens.
Her dog is 11 at this stage and my friend can spot a dog that will get this reaction from a mile off, and always tries to encourage the owner to call it back before its reached us, but owners seldom seem to have the control over their dogs to do this.
As a result of watching her trying to frantically ask a dog owner from across a park to call back their dog for years, mine's been taught to come to heel and walk past dogs on leads without an issue before he was ever let off a lead, and quite simply it wasn't difficult to do. I don't understand why other people take the risk of letting their dogs off leads before they have sufficient control.
it's these people who will eventually ruin the nice dog walking area's for those of us who are lucky enough to have a dog that comes back at one call and can be let off, or those sensible enough to realise they don't!

mosi

Zapperzy, I sympathize 100%

Your dog sounds like my terrier boy, he lunges and shrieks at other dogs when he meets them. He is usually better meeting other dogs when he is off lead but is still unpredictable so I keep him on in our local park and only let him off when we're out in the country.
I get SO annoyed by people allowing their dogs to approach, and yes, I get the same old "ah, he's fine, he friendly" only to be followed by a dirty look when he goes mad. It's infuriating because I'm being the responsible one by ensuring that my dog is not in a position to go and attack another.
Actually, I think that it was uncontrolled off lead dogs that triggered his aggression in the first place. He used to be fine meeting dogs but was attacked by an off lead JRT a while back, while he's been humped by some off lead dogs as well. He seems to have a particular dislike of JRTs so I think it could be related.
I'm hoping he can get over it with some training and the help of a behaviourist. Thankfully there are some understanding owners in the local park and he has made a few doggy friends.
My terrier girl on the other hand, loves all the dogs she meets, and has very good recall and will walk to heel when required. I never let her approach on lead dogs as I know too well that they may be on a lead for a reason.

Shammy

Zapperzy wrote: »

It has happened numerous times now but most recently today. Off lead dogs approaching my on lead dog. Sometimes the owner is there, sometimes not, if the owner is within earshot I tell them my dog isin't too friendly with other dogs. I let the dogs sniff, usually my guy is ok with this initially but as soon as I go to pull him away or the other dog walks away it all kicks off. Sometimes the owner of the other dog throws a filthy look, sometimes they don't even seem to care, if they seem to care I mutter a sorry as I'm dragging my dog away.

Sorry for your situation. Imo you are not in the wrong , you have your dog on a lead and if the owner is within earshot you leave them know.

When a dog comes up to your dog do you tense up ? does your body language change as you know what might happen ? I'm not having a go just looking into some solutions for your problem .

kylith

It's so frustrating with my fear aggressive dog when off lead dogs approach. Every day I'm crossing roads and climbing banks to avoid them. We'd gotten to the stage where we can get to within 10 feet of another dog without her going mental when a collie dodged it's owner and pretty much attacked, so that was a huge setback. I really should have given the owner a piece of my mind but I was too shaken.

lrushe

Imo it's just bad manners to allow your unleashed dog to approach an on leash dog, the owner obviously has their dog on a leash for a reason. I allow my dogs off leash but will put them back on their leashes if I am passing someone (dog or no dog) it's just common curtesy.

gregers85

I dont like dogs approaching me off lead!! I dont care how nice, friendly, social or how well trained the other dog is at the end of the day they're stil DOGS and I have had to use my Boot on many an occasion!(because a "nice dog" turned out to be not so nice!) As much as I hate having to do this I'd much rather it then risking my dog or myself for that matter! My female very obedient and very social towards dogs and is never bothered when we pass people or dogs but i will never leave her off lead! It is not one bit responsible in my opinion! Now there are exceptions and empty field or quiet beach but never if there are other dogs around!

tatabubbly

I personally have a HUGE problem with off the dog leads..

I don't care if the people complain about not finding long enough leads, the dog doesn't get enough exercise yada yada.. Put your dog on the lead. Have a bit of respect for others! You can get long long leads online or in a reputable pet shop or have a chat on here. I do not see the point in letting your dog off the lead, i care about animals but no matter what you say about your dog, i'm sorry but i do not trust it,it's not my dog and it doesn't know me or my dogs so why would you let it roam free??

My JRT have got an enclosed dog run now, my mum has a massive enclosed garden for them as well if they go there, and they have the run of the house. They both get walked for 40 minutes everyday on the lead and that knocks them to sleep! If you have a dog with additional walking needs, ensure you have a dog run or enclosed garden to allow them to run about in/ making sure you have additional time to walk your dog every day.You can't say you don't know what your dog will be like as most breeds have kennel clubs which you can look up and find out the general temprements of your dog.

Zapperzy

DBB wrote: »

In the eyes of the law, you're in the right Zapperzy. Your dog is under effectual control, the grey wasn't. Once your dog is on-lead, the owner of an off-lead dog would have it all to do to argue that you are in the wrong in this case.
I'm probably telling the priest his prayers here, but if you can at all, take a circuitous route around other dogs, duck into gateways, do whatever you need to do to prevent your dog from having to meet others face to face. Having said that, you said your lad was able to have a sniff today before he snarked off: this gives you something to build on. If he is able to carry out even basic social behaviours like sniffing, you can build on this, at least to some extent.

I already do everything to avoid meeting other dogs, when I'm somewhere like a big wide open beach it's not so easy so I try distraction with treats or toys. If he's really interested in his ball and the other dog is a good bit away it usually works and we might get away with just one or two 'I'm here' barks. Sometimes If I see the other dog coming before he does and there is nowhere to go I just pick him up and cover his eyes until the other dog has passed.

Ya if the other dog is offlead sometimes we get a sniff, he's very very stiff and head and tail straight up in the air curled a little over his back, if the other dog walks away or I pull him away then he kicks off. I have started trying to reward him when he is not as bad, but then it's hard to know am I rewarding him for barking less than usual or for barking at all.

Oranage2 wrote: »

I think this thread is going to pan out like how society is generally going. We don't reward the good social dogs, instead we place heavy restrictions on every dog cause a few crap owners won't socialize their dogs.

Also being forced to walk your dog on a lead especially active breeds like boxers in my opinion is dog abuse. No way walking is enough exercise and now the dog is being punished because of a 'bad owner'not bothering to train the dog . Ive a springer and he needs at least 2.5h off lead minimum, walking wouldn't be enough, he likes to sniff other dogs, if they snap then he backs off, i know if every dog was on a lead it would save these bad owners the embarrassment but if you're not gonna socialize the dog then you're not a fit owner-

Is that aimed at me? Your right in that I'v no idea of what socialisation he got as a pup, he was about 3 years old when I got him, was perfect with other dogs in the shelter, he was known as the mediator because any new dogs that came in mine was always the first one to be introduced with them. That was always off lead though. A week after I got him he was attacked by a terrier when I brought him back to the shelter to visit, he would not fight back and ran around in circles to get away from the terrier.

There are no off lead parks where I live, no socialisation classes that I have found yet, and it's very hard to ask a complete stranger I meet on a walk with a friendly well behaved dog if I can allow my barking whirlwind that looks like he wants to tear strips off the other dog if I could let them interact, I'm unlucky in that I have only 1 relative with a dog and he is already fine with that dog. I have a few friends with dogs but between one thing and another either I'm not friendly enough with them to invite them into my house or their dogs are not behavioural wise very great themselves. As I have said I'm not just ignoring this behaviour or pushing it under the carpet, I won't say I'v tried everything but I have put a lot of effort in already to try and rectify it so for someone to call me an unfit owner is quite offensive. Maybe you think it's abuse to constantly walk a dog on a lead, mine has a 26ft retracable lead to run on when we're somewhere safe to use it, letting him off lead even with no dogs in sight would be disasterous if not in an enclosed area, if he see's or smells livestock or wildlife that's it he's gone.

planetX wrote: »

It's pretty basic common sense to put your dog back on a lead when approaching another on lead. My fear would be that one day one of those dogs will retaliate to yours and you'll end up with a fight with you attached. If you are warning people away then you've done your bit, no way should you have to muzzle your dog.

That's a fear I have too. He's small too so it wouldn't take much to seriously injure him.

Shammy wrote: »

When a dog comes up to your dog do you tense up ? does your body language change as you know what might happen ? I'm not having a go just looking into some solutions for your problem .

Yes I'm sure it does. I have tried being relaxed as possible. Everything I'v read says keep a slack lead and stay calm, the slack lead is impossible as he's pulling and kangarooing as soon as he see's the dog, I have to pull the lead in short or else he ends up tripping me up and he's easier to control the closer he is to me. Has happened a few times that he has seen the dog and kicked off before I even get a chance to look around to see where the dog is, so in that situation my body language would have been completely relaxed at the point of him kicking off and he's still reacted the same way.

Zapperzy

Forgot to add I have no problem whatsoever with responsible owners letting there dogs off lead in a safe place so long as they are under control and do not let them approach other people or on lead dogs, or of course livestock.

Thanks for the replies folks, nice to see your all responsible and call your dogs away when you see an onlead dog!

RustyNut

Cú Giobach wrote: »

By law only dogs on the restricted breeds list have to be on a leash, the law states a dog must be under control, a well trained off lead dog is within the law.

There should be no such thing as off leash? Hmmmm.....
I'm off to the beach shortly with two dogs and going to be using one of those ball throwing sticks and letting them run and run and run, I shall continue doing this until Either myself or my dogs are no longer alive or I am imprisoned for being a menace to society.
F*** The begrudgers.

That's a great attitude all right. I just posted on another tread about this very subject. I have a nephew who is terrified of dogs and does not understand they are only out for a run on the beach in the park or wherever and when a dog approaches him he absolutely panics. It's this fcuk you attitude that causes problems for other people, you might know that your dogs are playful pets but they are monsters to him and he has as much right to enjoy the beach as you and a lot more right than your dogs. It was an irresponsible dog owner whose dog was off the lead that attacked and terrified him. Maybe you can keep them from approaching people when they are off the lead but people will go to great lengths to protect kids from any threat whether real or perceived. How would you react if you felt your dogs were under threat, it has never come to it but when we bring him out I bring a walking stick and any dog that needs it will get it in the head and if it's one of yours well, fcuk you.

Chris_Heilong

RustyNut wrote: »

That's a great attitude all right. I just posted on another tread about this very subject. I have a nephew who is terrified of dogs and does not understand they are only out for a run on the beach in the park or wherever and when a dog approaches him he absolutely panics. It's this fcuk you attitude that causes problems for other people, you might know that your dogs are playful pets but they are monsters to him and he has as much right to enjoy the beach as you and a lot more right than your dogs. It was an irresponsible dog owner whose dog was off the lead that attacked and terrified him. Maybe you can keep them from approaching people when they are off the lead but people will go to great lengths to protect kids from any threat whether real or perceived. How would you react if you felt your dogs were under threat, it has never come to it but when we bring him out I bring a walking stick and any dog that needs it will get it in the head and if it's one of yours well, fcuk you.

Nurtering his fear of dogs will only make it worse, best thing to do would be to let him meet dogs you know who are people friendly and let him see dogs are not monsters, maybe start with a very small puppy.

Latatian

Or a calm older dog.

Dogs should be put on lead and perhaps taken to the side of the path (if possible) if someone else is having trouble with their leashed dog or if someone walking by is afraid of dogs. Otherwise they should, on or off leash, not be allowed to greet other dogs without the permission of both owners. It's just common courtesy.

I have much more respect for the owner of the leashed, muzzled aggressive big dog than I do for the owner of the 'friendly' bouncy dog who has no manners and is let run riot, or the owner of the small fluffy dogs we met out walking who made some ineffectual attempts to stop the snarling dogs running at me and then shouted that they were friendly. My own dog was leashed, and so terrified that I had to pick her up before someone got hurt. Fortunately only my trousers were bitten.

Fair play to all those owners of aggressive or dog-selective dogs who handle them appropriately, because it must be so tempting just to pretend everything's fine and not have to do so much work.

RustyNut

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Nurtering his fear of dogs will only make it worse, best thing to do would be to let him meet dogs you know who are people friendly and let him see dogs are not monsters, maybe start with a very small puppy.

Yes we have a little soft pom and he tolerates her but would not be comfortable even with her, I know the answer is to get him over his fear but his own family would not be "doggy" people unfortunately and this does not help. However his terror is real and it is heartbreaking to see his trip to the park destroyed by loose dogs who I know are only being dogs. I would never have thought about this until I seen the affect they have on him especially big dogs chasing balls and things in roughly his direction, it really affects his life. I really love dogs and know they need exercise, maybe the answer is a park or areas that are dedicated to dogs so if you don't like dogs then stay away.

Cherry Blossom

Zapperzy wrote: »

There are no off lead parks where I live, no socialisation classes that I have found yet, and it's very hard to ask a complete stranger I meet on a walk with a friendly well behaved dog if I can allow my barking whirlwind that looks like he wants to tear strips off the other dog if I could let them interact, I'm unlucky in that I have only 1 relative with a dog and he is already fine with that dog. I have a few friends with dogs but between one thing and another either I'm not friendly enough with them to invite them into my house or their dogs are not behavioural wise very great themselves.

Well, I shall be in your neck of the woods in early October with dog in tow and would be more than happy to let my dog socialise with yours. I haven't met an angry doggy yet that she hasn't won over! She weighs 6 kilos but can handle herself perfectly well, even with rough play from the biggest dogs, so I certainly wouldn't be worried about her being damaged in any way or vice versa. The offer is there should you choose to accept, although the details of my trip are not fully confirmed yet.

littlebug

I know this is off the topic of your OP Zapperzy but another thing I was advised to do at the start (and it took me a lot of courage to do it) was to bring the dog where there were lots of other dogs walking. I took her in to the prom in Galway so rather than single dogs here and there that she fixated on, they were everywhere , mostly on lead and well behaved. As well as all the dogs there was the distraction of the traffic on one side and the sea and seabirds on the other . After a couple of minutes my dog was just completely ignoring all the others. There was no sniffing and socialising, just lots of dogs pretty much ignoring each other. If there is anywhere like that near you might that be worth a try?

Plenum

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

Nurtering his fear of dogs will only make it worse, best thing to do would be to let him meet dogs you know who are people friendly and let him see dogs are not monsters, maybe start with a very small puppy.

I agree completely with Chris...the best thing for your dog is to slowly become socialised with other calmer dogs. The next time you walk your dog speak to other owners...most will only be too happy to try and help by meeting with you once or twice and introducing the dogs. When my dog was a puppy he was quite aggressive so I got talking to a few people i met while out walking and arranged to meet them and their dogs, which helped immensely
Your dog picks up on your anxiety when meeting other dogs and reflects that in his actions.
I know its hard but you need to try and relax when walking and this will help clam your dog...its a small thing but it will help

Cú Giobach

RustyNut wrote: »

That's a great attitude all right. I just posted on another tread about this very subject. I have a nephew who is terrified of dogs and does not understand they are only out for a run on the beach in the park or wherever and when a dog approaches him he absolutely panics. It's this fcuk you attitude that causes problems for other people, you might know that your dogs are playful pets but they are monsters to him and he has as much right to enjoy the beach as you and a lot more right than your dogs. It was an irresponsible dog owner whose dog was off the lead that attacked and terrified him. Maybe you can keep them from approaching people when they are off the lead but people will go to great lengths to protect kids from any threat whether real or perceived. How would you react if you felt your dogs were under threat, it has never come to it but when we bring him out I bring a walking stick and any dog that needs it will get it in the head and if it's one of yours well, fcuk you.

Nice to see some one perpetuating the cycle of fear and violence regarding dogs, just what the world needs. :rolleyes:

One of the main reasons I live out in the country near the coast is because of the life I can give my dogs, with the exception of the occasional sunny weekend the beaches around here are huge and empty, and I will not keep my 3 collie x's tied up and frustrated just on the quite rare chance someone with a pathological fear of dogs might be around.

If a child has a fear of dogs the answer is not to insist every dog in the land is tied up, this helps nobody (including the child) and one of the worst things that can be done is to threaten to beat off any dog that approaches as this will only reinforce a child's fear, which besides being cruel for the child can lead to quite ugly situations which can result in people getting bitten, dogs developing aggression towards people with sticks or being destroyed and as I said above the perpetuation of a cycle.

People who go out with the intent you mentioned above is one of the reasons there are dogs around who develop fear aggression to strangers (and ultimately can bite children), well done.

I often come across children who are afraid of dogs and it's good when I see a nice responsible parent encouraging a child to interact with one of them or assuring the child there is nothing to worry about, because whatever laws might be brought in there will always be unleashed dogs around, and at some stage of a persons life they will meet a dog.

Oranage2

This this thread is ridiculous and full of warped logic.


So lets say i have a pittbull terrier and I know he isnt dog friendly, now a little friendly puppy runs over to play with my dog and my dog rips the puppy apart - so according to yous this is the other owners fault because he hadnt control of his dog?

Now lets say i have the breed of dog you have and lets say the puppy is a different breed? does this make the scenario any different?

Having a dangerous dog that likes to attack other dogs and/or children is just that....dangerous. They should be muzzled -


Also dogs weren't bred just to be in a house or walked on a lead - its not fair on the dog and i dont care what anyone says you'd have to walk a dog for 5 hours on a lead to tire him out.

It's simple really, if you want a dog then you must meet the dogs requirments, to meet the dogs requirments you must be able to give the dog good exercise, to excerise properly then you must socialise the dog - pretty basic and thats not even mentioning how un safe it is having a dog thats likely to attack!

RustyNut

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Nice to see some one perpetuating the cycle of fear and violence regarding dogs, just what the world needs. :rolleyes:

One of the main reasons I live out in the country near the coast is because of the life I can give my dogs, with the exception of the occasional sunny weekend the beaches around here are huge and empty, and I will not keep my 3 collie x's tied up and frustrated just on the quite rare chance someone with a pathological fear of dogs might be around.

If a child has a fear of dogs the answer is not to insist every dog in the land is tied up, this helps nobody (including the child) and one of the worst things that can be done is to threaten to beat off any dog that approaches as this will only reinforce a child's fear, which besides being cruel for the child can lead to quite ugly situations which can result in people getting bitten, dogs developing aggression towards people with sticks or being destroyed and as I said above the perpetuation of a cycle.

People who go out with the intent you mentioned above is one of the reasons there are dogs around who develop fear aggression to strangers (and ultimately can bite children), well done.

I often come across children who are afraid of dogs and it's good when I see a nice responsible parent encouraging a child to interact with one of them or assuring the child there is nothing to worry about, because whatever laws might be brought in there will always be unleashed dogs around, and at some stage of a persons life they will meet a dog.

Hi I think I must have given the wrong impression, I'm not a dog hater, quite the opposite and I completely understand the need to exercise your dogs and it sounds like you have an ideal place to let your dogs run and that is as it should be the last thing I would like to see are dogs tied up and stressing.

When I'm out with our dog and daughter we love to meet and interact with other dogs and their owners,neither of us have any fear of dogs and my daughter will stop any dog owner she encounters and ask if it's ok to pet it.

We regularly go walking without our furball in Dublin city and she has often given her own money to a couple of homeless guys who keep dogs and one particular guy who has a dog and a rabbit.

There is nothing I would like to see more than my nephew just being relaxed around dogs or even just accepting of them however since he was knocked to the ground and bitten, leaving him needing 12 staples in his head this is not the case.

When we go out My intent is never to hit a dog and I have never Found it necessary however it gives the young lad some comfort to think that uncle nut will defend him if he gets attacked again. When the attack occurred if someone had given the dog a good whack then maybe this would never have happened, the dog would still be alive and one lovely kid would not have been terrorised.

This issue was caused by an unrestrained un controlled dog, I do not for one moment blame the dog, it's irresponsible owners that cause problems and I do not think we need more laws that demonise dogs it's my belief that there are no bad dogs only bad owners.

Our dog is a pom and we occasionally meet other kids who are afraid and she is the ideal dog to introduce them to a little petting and love it when a kid starts off nervous and ends up snuggling our furball hopefully nurturing a liking for all dogs.

On a last note if your dogs are getting aggressive with people depending on what they are carrying whether that is a stick a bag a baby or whatever then maybe they need to be restrained.

Discodog

DBB wrote: »

I'm probably telling the priest his prayers here, but if you can at all, take a circuitous route around other dogs, duck into gateways, do whatever you need to do to prevent your dog from having to meet others face to face.

Is there not a risk that by avoiding contact it just makes contact an even bigger deal ? In reality it is very hard to avoid other dogs & I would be concerned that ducking into gateways might make your dog even more nervous - plus around here you'd meet another dog flying out of the driveway

**Vai**

Oranage2 wrote: »

Also dogs weren't bred just to be in a house or walked on a lead - its not fair on the dog and i dont care what anyone says you'd have to walk a dog for 5 hours on a lead to tire him out.

I agree with everything you said except this. Dogs (certain breeds anyway) have been bred to live in houses for a long time now, they have also had lead training bred into them over the generations. My GSD is usually wrecked after an hour or so of exercise, on a lead. Shes very well behaved but if I let her off lead where I live I would be answering to the dog warden eventually. To say she would need 5 hours just because I have something around her neck is ridiculous and lacking in logic. If anything, walking on lead tires them faster because of the mental challenge involved.

**Vai**

Discodog wrote: »

Is there not a risk that by avoiding contact it just makes contact an even bigger deal ? In reality it is very hard to avoid other dogs & I would be concerned that ducking into gateways might make your dog even more nervous - plus around here you'd meet another dog flying out of the driveway

Definitely. Its bad for both you and your dog to avoid other dogs. Meet the problem head on in a controlled way, seems to work.

tatabubbly

**Vai** wrote: »

I agree with everything you said except this. Dogs (certain breeds anyway) have been bred to live in houses for a long time now, they have also had lead training bred into them over the generations. My GSD is usually wrecked after an hour or so of exercise, on a lead. Shes very well behaved but if I let her off lead where I live I would be answering to the dog warden eventually. To say she would need 5 hours just because I have something around her neck is ridiculous and lacking in logic. If anything, walking on lead tires them faster because of the mental challenge involved.

I totally agree with this, i had one of the neighbours pup over in my back garden for an hour to help her socialise it and my two are now curled up on the couch, conked out!

Zapperzy

adrenalinjunkie wrote: »

Well, I shall be in your neck of the woods in early October with dog in tow and would be more than happy to let my dog socialise with yours. I haven't met an angry doggy yet that she hasn't won over! She weighs 6 kilos but can handle herself perfectly well, even with rough play from the biggest dogs, so I certainly wouldn't be worried about her being damaged in any way or vice versa. The offer is there should you choose to accept, although the details of my trip are not fully confirmed yet.

Thank you, sure let me know closer to the date. I'l be the other side of the country working but should be home weekends. Hope you enjoy your trip!

Oranage2 wrote: »

This this thread is ridiculous and full of warped logic.


So lets say i have a pittbull terrier and I know he isnt dog friendly, now a little friendly puppy runs over to play with my dog and my dog rips the puppy apart - so according to yous this is the other owners fault because he hadnt control of his dog?

Now lets say i have the breed of dog you have and lets say the puppy is a different breed? does this make the scenario any different?

Having a dangerous dog that likes to attack other dogs and/or children is just that....dangerous. They should be muzzled -


Also dogs weren't bred just to be in a house or walked on a lead - its not fair on the dog and i dont care what anyone says you'd have to walk a dog for 5 hours on a lead to tire him out.

It's simple really, if you want a dog then you must meet the dogs requirments, to meet the dogs requirments you must be able to give the dog good exercise, to excerise properly then you must socialise the dog - pretty basic and thats not even mentioning how un safe it is having a dog thats likely to attack!

Where did I say that my dog has ever attacked or bitten another dog or person? My dog has been attacked twice, both times he ran around in circles with his tail between his legs and did not retaliate. Granted he hasn't had a whole lot of experience with children but the little he has had he was excellent with them. I hate this constant comparison to children, dog aggression (if thats what you want to call my dog's problem) is completely different to people aggression, my guy is completely bombproof with people, that said I don't become lax and always take common sense precautions like never leaving him alone with kids.

If you want to call me a bad owner who abuses there dog fine, thats your opinion. But I know my dog and I know it takes less than a 5 hour on lead walk to tire him, as I said he has a 26ft long lead to run on for at least a portion (if not nearly all the walk if were on a quiet beach), he will run and run for the first 20 or 30 minutes then he will get tired and walk to heel for a while. After an hour of that he is zonked. Well I'm going to log off and bring my dog for a walk in the lashing rain (less likely to meet other dogs), will be jogging a portion of that, on-lead of course.

Cú Giobach

RustyNut wrote: »

On a last note if your dogs are getting aggressive with people depending on what they are carrying whether that is a stick a bag a baby or whatever then maybe they need to be restrained.

Grand post except for this bit.
The way you say "your dogs" as opposed to "dogs" gives me the impression you are reffering to my dogs? I hope I'm wrong.

**Vai**

Zapperzy wrote: »

If you want to call me a bad owner who abuses there dog fine, thats your opinion. But I know my dog and I know it takes less than a 5 hour on lead walk to tire him, as I said he has a 26ft long lead to run on for at least a portion (if not nearly all the walk if were on a quiet beach), he will run and run for the first 20 or 30 minutes then he will get tired and walk to heel for a while. After an hour of that he is zonked. Well I'm going to log off and bring my dog for a walk in the lashing rain (less likely to meet other dogs), will be jogging a portion of that, on-lead of course.

Zapperzy, I know it might be more difficult since your dog has been attacked before but in general the only way to stop the behaviour is to meet other dogs.

I have successfully introduced my dogs, both of whom had some dog excitement (which is what yours sounds like, not aggression, there is a massive and obvious difference) to various dogs around where I live. They are all dogs I have had issues with before. The trick is to be confident before doing it.

For example, there is a golden lab across the road from me. He is known as a bit "cranky" and will bark anytime anyone walks past his house. I was walking my dogs one day and noticed he was off lead and just wandering down the back lane in my estate. So I took the opportunity to walk my dogs past him over and over again until there was total silence from all concerned. Im sure I looked like a total lunatic to anyone who saw me but it worked. This dog will now ignore me and my dogs but will bark at anyone else that walks past. Ive done the same type of thing with a beautiful male husky/malamute mix who my GSD is now in love with Not advisable if you are in any way lacking in confidence or in fear of the strange dog. Whatever evolutionary trick my brain missed that allows me to have no fear of dogs actually comes in quite handy! Doing it with dogs you know, or in some type of controlled environment is the best way to go of course.

Apologies for going on but this is a topic I know about and have experienced with my GSD. She still has the odd breakdown but the day I cross the road or duck into a gateway to avoid other dogs is the day I give up on her.

Cú Giobach

**Vai** wrote: »

For example, there is a golden lab across the road from me. He is known as a bit "cranky" and will bark anytime anyone walks past his house. I was walking my dogs one day and noticed he was off lead and just wandering down the back lane in my estate. So I took the opportunity to walk my dogs past him over and over again until there was total silence from all concerned. Im sure I looked like a total lunatic to anyone who saw me but it worked.

I did this a few years ago on a route I walk regularly in a village, where a J Russell would go quite insane and charge to within 3 feet of us as we passed, my dog was quite young and I was teaching her to ignore such situations.
As we stood ignoring the lunatic the owner came out and started shouting and roaring at me for annoying her dog, she didn't even take a breath and just ranted on and on (just like her dog), she wouldn't listen to me when I tried to explain and just kept on "barking", so I treated her the same as her dog and turned away, gave my dog a treat, light a fag, and waited for her to tire herself out, which she eventually did and stormed off, seems this technique works with people also.

star-pants

There's been a few reported posts so can we refrain from cursing at each other and advocating hitting dogs please.
There's no need to respond to this post - it's just a warning post.

RustyNut

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Grand post except for this bit.
The way you say "your dogs" as opposed to "dogs" gives me the impression you are reffering to my dogs? I hope I'm wrong.

Should have said your or any other dogs.

DBB

Discodog wrote: »

Is there not a risk that by avoiding contact it just makes contact an even bigger deal ? In reality it is very hard to avoid other dogs & I would be concerned that ducking into gateways might make your dog even more nervous - plus around here you'd meet another dog flying out of the driveway

In short, no.
As it stands, Zapperzy's dog is very fearful having other dogs too close, especially during the greeting. This is very common, as many dogs never properly learn how to greet a stranger when they're young, and meeting strange dogs can be fraught with tension.

To teach him to react otherwise is a process: we don't expect a dog to sit the first time we say "Sit", and we don't expect a dog to come back when called when the first time we call him back is out in a busy park. These things need to be built up gradually, and although more emotionally complex, teaching a dog to pass other dogs is just the same: small steps first, with lot sof practise.

If an owner of such a dog keeps insisting their fearful dog "face his fears" by walking headlong into other dogs, her dog's reaction will get worse and worse, because every time this happens, it further confirms to the aggressor that aggression works: it gets rid of the other dog most of the time.

Zapperzy is not dealing with a dog who is straining at the leash to say hello to other dogs, she's dealing with a dog who is prepared to use aggression when other dogs are too close for his comfort: when he aggresses towards other dogs as they get closer, there's a good chance that they'll either back off, or Zapperzy will try and extricate him from the scene.. either way, the dog learns that being aggressive usually increases distance between him and the other dog, which is exactly what he wanted in the first place.

Instead, his interactions with other dogs need to be carefully controlled for now. Owners of such dogs at first avoid direct contact with other dogs, and find a distance at which their dog is comfortable to just watch the other dog pass by. At this distance, a dog is more willing to focus on his owner, to take food rewards from the owner, and from this distance, to learn that other dogs, at a distance, are good news.
This is the part most owners get wrong: they bring treats and try to give them to their dog as another dog is right beside him. But their dog can't/won't accept treats from them and ignore their pleas to be calm, because at this stage, the dog has exceeded his emotional threshold, and is blinkered to anything else other than the dog he's trying to get rid of.

So, distance must be achieved first to find the point where your dog is prepared to watch other dogs without boiling over. As time passes, and the dog at a certain distance has learned to willingly focus on his owner when other dogs are a distance away, the owner can now allow their dog slightly closer to other passing dogs. Again, at this closer distance, the owner works on the focus techniques.

And once progress is made at this level, the distance is closed even more. Eventually, the owner can pass dogs at quite a close proximity, but at this stage, the dog has learned that focussing on the owner, no matter where the other dog is, is more beneficial for him.

It is a process and it takes time, but it is an exceptionally gentle and humane method because the total panic and fear is brought right down to more manageable levels for the dog. It is the same method that is used to treat humans for fears and phobias. It is called Systematic Desensitisation and Counter Conditioning.

Systematic Desensitisation is the process of keeping the dog at a sufficient physical distance to keep him below the emotional threshold of agitation.

Counter-conditioning is teaching the dog that focussing on the owner in the presence of other dogs = reward. Therefore, other dogs = reward. Slowly, the emotional reaction to other dog changes from one of agitation and uncertainty to one that's more relaxed. Furthermore, the process of teaching the dog exactly what to do when other dogs are about brings more predictability to the situation, and dogs feel secure when they can predict things better.

This technique engages a part of the dog's brain which he's not using when he becomes emotional, but which helps him to gather his thoughts and thinkk about what he's doing, rather than flying off the handle in an emotional way.

In addition, there are some dogs out there who simply don't want to meet other dogs, ever, end of. For such dogs, the above technique is also effective because once the dog is focussing on the owner, he tends not to attract other dogs over... dogs who are straining at the lead and baying, on the other hand, often draw other dogs onto them as they come over to see what all the fuss is about. Dogs who are by nature antisocial are quite happy to just allow other dogs go on their way, without hanging around for a chat.

Dealing with a dog-aggressive dog is difficult int he real world we live in, because it is exceptionally difficult to find places where there aren't too many dogs in which to start off the desensitisation process. So, because the real world is the real world, owners are advised to use avoidance techniques as described when they inevitably see other dogs about. It means having to keep an eye out for other dogs and take action when need be, but this is a means to an end. The end result will be being able to walk past other dogs with polite greetings, so spending time keeping distance so that the technique can work properly is a temporary measure in many cases.

It is not necessarily about avoiding other dogs for life, and it is not about rushing into gateways in a panicky way: the whole thing is cool, calm and collected. More to the point, it works. And it works because it is based on understanding how dogs learn.

To force a fearful dog to meet other dogs is called flooding, a deeply risky and generally disused technique, as it does not get rid of the fear, it just masks it.

Cú Giobach

RustyNut wrote: »

Should have said your or any other dogs.

Ok.
The only thing any of my dogs will do if you raise a stick to them, is get excited and prepare for "the chase".
Two of them don't even know people actually hit dogs, the other is a rescue so who knows, but he gives no reaction to a "raised" anything (except for a frantic tail wagging).

Discodog

DBB wrote: »

Instead, his interactions with other dogs need to be carefully controlled for now. Owners of such dogs at first avoid direct contact with other dogs, and find a distance at which their dog is comfortable to just watch the other dog pass by.

In reality would this not be difficult to do because it will also depend on the attitude of the other dog. I have seen trainers do this & they usually have a nice calm, non reactive dog to act as the "passer by".

So how should we react when our, dog friendly dogs, get lunged at by manic Collies ? My chaps hackles go up gradually as we get closer to their house.

Dilbert75

We have a rescue dog also, 15mth Cocker, and she shows all the signs of having been badly socialised with both people and animals. She displays all the behaviours of the OP's dog and we've had a behaviourist tell us all the stuff that DBB has said.

Our biggest hassle is in maintaining sufficient distance from other dogs to gradually desensitise her to their presence. Why? Because some dog owners are just too damn thick to understand that not everybody wants their dog running at them willy nilly. On beaches, in parks, mountain trails, field beside housing estate, even on our road - people all over the place letting their dogs run riot and they have no control.

With one exception - there's a man who walks his Springer near here and he has a whistle - when he blows it, the dog comes, sits & watches him. Its magical to watch - the dog is so well trained that I would have full confidence in his control. But as for the other numbskulls...:mad:

caseyann

Hey Op,I had the same problem with my dog.And god only knows how many people i have ran into who have no control over their dogs off lead, and just assume that because you are walking your dog and theirs is peachy with all dogs that your dog will be aswell.
Its quite hard when you want to socialize your dog but at your dogs own pace rather than have them running and bounding towards you.
When your dog is feeling insecure or feeling aggressive or dominant or threatened they will lunge at another dog.
With the one of our dogs i am talking about,his stemmed from being attacked by dogs off lead and feeling threatened.It happened on two separate occasions when he was a puppy ,and i am sure could sense my fear when the dogs came running at us from a field.I asked the owner to call them back as i didnt feel comfortable with the way they surrounded us and he literally ignored me.Another occasion was two dogs on our road that had no business even being let out never mind off lead,they were aggressive to people also.
I started to make headway with my dog by distracting him from other dogs and basically telling him easy easy and he would calm down.He made friends with two dogs off our road and we could let him play with them no problem.Until one day went walking and this man had his dog off lead and let him over to us,He was growling and snarling at my dog and my dog just stood there in front of me like protecting but not showing teeth just standing strong.I asked this man to pull back his dog as i didnt trust mine to not fight and he mumbled at me bitch and i am not calling him back in a very aggressive tone.
I walked off more afraid of the man than i did of the dog.
But it set me back months of hard work to make my dog not feel threatened by dogs off lead.

If people allow their dog over to you after you telling them he might bite then they are in the wrong.
If someone had their dog and he approaches you and off lead keep your dog focused on you and walk on,maybe something nice in your pocket.Or if you see someone coming towards you detour or widen the distance between yous.
It takes alot of time and hard work to help your dog feel comfortable and you cant do that when other dogs are invading their space.
I hate they let dogs off in my area.
I ofc dont mind people who respect my space and dont allow their dogs approach,they should really ask the person with the dog on lead as you would ask if you can pet their dog before leaning in for a touch.

My question to you would be, do you know your dogs full history and if your dog maybe had some sort of scare with another dog off lead when a pup?

caseyann

Dilbert75 wrote: »

We have a rescue dog also, 15mth Cocker, and she shows all the signs of having been badly socialised with both people and animals. She displays all the behaviours of the OP's dog and we've had a behaviourist tell us all the stuff that DBB has said.

Our biggest hassle is in maintaining sufficient distance from other dogs to gradually desensitise her to their presence. Why? Because some dog owners are just too damn thick to understand that not everybody wants their dog running at them willy nilly. On beaches, in parks, mountain trails, field beside housing estate, even on our road - people all over the place letting their dogs run riot and they have no control.

With one exception - there's a man who walks his Springer near here and he has a whistle - when he blows it, the dog comes, sits & watches him. Its magical to watch - the dog is so well trained that I would have full confidence in his control. But as for the other numbskulls...:mad:

Maybe ask him for help

DBB

Discodog wrote: »

In reality would this not be difficult to do because it will also depend on the attitude of the other dog. I have seen trainers do this & they usually have a nice calm, non reactive dog to act as the "passer by".

So how should we react when our, dog friendly dogs, get lunged at by manic Collies ? My chaps hackles go up gradually as we get closer to their house.

It can be difficult to manage with other dogs in the environment, but if the right area is chosen it can be done. Often this is the only option open to owners who don't have access to calm, friendly dogs. Needs must.
Many trainers and behaviourists use "stooge dogs" (not an experession I like much:o), but their use is under a certain amount of scrutiny now between professionals: they can be very effective at the early to mid stages of introducing a dog to the visual environment of the aggressive dog.

However, the stooge dog can be very vulnerable in certain cases. For every X number of dogs they'll pacify because of their calming disposition, there'll be one that attacks them. Also, there's only so much we should ask a stooge dog to do: it can't be nice having other dogs shouting at you all the time. Such events can destroy even the most steady stooge dog's confidence and sour them. Not good.

So, before any stooge dog is used, it is more customary now to use a stuffed toy dog. This may sound odd, but it is possible to buy quite realistic looking stuffed toy dogs, enough to "fool" many (but not all) reactive dogs from a distance: obviously, if you bring the reactive dog too close, he's going to cop that the stuffed dog isn't real.

However, they are brilliant for distance work, once the aggressive dog has learned pretty good focus techniques outside the house, and is ready to move onto "real", or perhaps not-so-real dogs! Incidentally, people who are being treated for, e.g. arachnophobia, are often introduced to a picture of a cartoon spider in the earliest stages of desensitisation... the stuffed dog is the same idea for dogs.

Once the dog has learned to focus on the owner with the stuffed dog, then a stooge dog can be used. Again, this would be started at a distance: most aggressive dogs will escalate once they see the stooge dog moving, so some experimentation must be done to assess where the line is that the aggressive dog remains capable of focussing on the owner.
If things progress well, the aggressive dog can be worked closer and closer to the stooge dog, eventually learning nice up-close manners with her. Then the aggressive dog needs to learn to generalise these skills onto other dogs, graduating slowly onto dogs that aren't quite as calm as the stooge dog was.

But, as I say, care must be taken for the welfare of the stooge dog, and because of their vulnerability to the occasional attack, and because they can get sick and tired of repeatedly being exposed to boorish dogs, a lot of behaviourists only use them for distance work now.

In any case, if a dog is so aggressive that he's prepared to attack a very calm and polite dog in the early days, realisitically the chances are that this dog won't ever get to the stage where he can be reliable up-close, so these dogs can be taught instead just to keep themselves to themselves when another dog is nearby.

As for manic collies, it's easy to understand why your dog would start to become tense when approaching such a situation, as your dog is anticipating the barage. Can the collies get out to you? If so, another poster has used a method of passively training dogs who run out: bring delicious treats for them and throw them onto the ground in front of them. They may not get it at first, but if you repeat this you might just find the collies coming out with a happier disposition.

If a dog is very determined to keep coming at you, I have picked up handfuls of gravel, or my car keys, and scudding them across the ground towards (not at) the approaching dog's feet, as it tends to make them stop and think.

If the collies are confined, perhaps start doing focus work with your own dogs a distance away from the collie property, just as they're thinking about getting tense. As you see your dogs getting less tense int he same area, move a little closer to the collie property before stopping to do a bit of focus work. And gradually, it'd be good to be outside the property and having your dogs focus on you. And, for the hell of it, throw some treats to the collies anyway!
It can also be effective, as long as the collies are confined, to stop dead in your tracks as soon as they start barking, and only move off once they've quietened down. As it stands, they bark at passers-by, and the passer-by retreats. So, barking manically makes people move along. However, if you flip this, so that their barking makes you stop, and siloence makes you move on, they rethink this strategy. Perhaps not with other people, but with you, they will. I have used this to great effect with local dogs around here, but again I stress the offending dog(s) must not be able to get out from their premises in this instance.