A French lesson in clean, considerate, bike-friendly urban living

Jawgap

From the Irish Times

Since we copied the their bike scheme - maybe this is the future Dublin!!!:)

Magic Beans

The French have a widespread cycling culture. They also use mopeds extensively to get around. Children are taught the Code de la Route (ROTR) in College (Primary) and have regular road safety visits by the local Gendarmarie. Every child is also taught how to ride a moped and their licences are issued through the school as soon as they are old enough. So basically every French driver has experience of using a moped and was taught the ROTR at a very early age. This makes them bike conscious when they are on the road. Not only that but the Police Municipal supervise the parking/pickups around the schools when they children are leaving. This keeps the school pick-up drivers in-line and they regularly stop and inspect the children's mopeds to make sure that they are safe and that the speed governor and exhaust have not been interfered with. This instils respect for the police and an expectation of a consequence if you ignore the rules.

In Ireland you pretty much buy your child a bike and let him out.

Attitudes have to change.

Caroline_ie

Magic Beans wrote: »

Children are taught the Code de la Route (ROTR) in College (Primary) and have regular road safety visits by the local Gendarmarie. Every child is also taught how to ride a moped and their licences are issued through the school as soon as they are old enough.

This really is only recent. I am 31 and when I was a teen growing up in France, anyone who reached the age of 14 had the right to use a moped and there was no licence or anything. Just buy and ride. The implemented the moped licence and ROTR much later when I was in my early 20's, because of the number of kids getting killed on mopeds. It took them many years to do this, my mother used to ride her moped when she was 14 without a helmet.

Magic Beans wrote: »

In Ireland you pretty much buy your child a bike and let him out.

Yes just as I said above. It took many years for France to get everything organized. Ireland is only new at this.

It's up to the parents to teach their kids about all this IMO. It's not fair to point the finger at school because you can't teach your own kid to look left and right before crossing the road.

tomasrojo

I'm just curious.

Moped, as used here, applies to something like this?



Rather than this?

Magic Beans

Both, although the top picture are aften referred to as velos.

Caroline_ie

The 1st pic is a Solex. A bike with a lawnmower engine stuck to it They still exist.
The moped kids and commuters use the most are these:
Mobylette ( Peugeot in this pic )

Or just a scooter like Pics 2. Anything within 50cm3 ( exept motocross bikes )

Captain Havoc

I think there's a bit of rose tinted glasses there, I lived a year in Paris and visit every couple of years and I wouldn't have the same view. I find French drivers completely the opposite to Irish driver, Irish drivers will stop at pedestrian crossings and take note of road signage but drive very close to cyclists but the French will go straight through pedestrian crossings even with pedestrians waiting and signage is just road decoration but they'll drive as wide as they can to get around a cyclist.

Having said that, I believe attitudes are changing and I'm noticing more and more people edging a bit to the right in traffic and cautious overtaking on the road. I think the "I pay road tax" morons like F****r are becoming are becoming less and less, a large part of this is down to the opening of motorways down the country.

How as ever, I'm not saying that there aren't muppets out there, I had a heart in mouth moment yesterday when I thought someone was going to do a France television impression as they patiently waited behind me on straightish road and decided the best place to over take was on a blind bend with a car coming, I didn't know if she was going flick left into me, brake suddenly but both cars slowed down. A few minutes later on the same road someone decided to overtake me with an oncoming car which was visible well before any over taking maneuver should have started but I think he misjudged my speed and I had to slow down.

The day before a car was behind me, a few meters up the road there was graveyard with carparking spaces which I cycled in, the car went on beeped and waved as he passed, I think if there's more of this sort of attitude from both cyclists and drivers the roads would be a lot more harmonious.

tomasrojo

Caroline_ie wrote: »

The 1st pic is a Solex. A bike with a lawnmower engine stuck to it They still exist.
The moped kids and commuters use the most are these:
Mobylette ( Peugeot in this pic )

Or just a scooter like Pics 2. Anything within 50cm3 ( exept motocross bikes )

So some mopeds still have pedals anyway? I don't think the term is ever applied to a vehicle with pedals here, despite the obvious etymology.

tomasrojo

Captain Havoc wrote: »

The day before a car was behind me, a few meters up the road there was graveyard with carparking spaces which I cycled in, the car went on beeped and waved as he passed, I think if there's more of this sort of attitude from both cyclists and drivers the roads would be a lot more harmonious.

I try to do things of this kind as much as possible. It really does grease the wheels of society.

Mind you, a Dublin Bus driver gave me the stink-eye a few days ago when I stopped to let him swing over onto my part of the road to get around a parked vehicle. Not sure what more he wanted me to do. Maybe get off the road altogether.

galwaycyclist

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Irish driver, Irish drivers will stop at pedestrian crossings and take note of road signage but drive very close to cyclists but the French will go straight through pedestrian crossings even with pedestrians waiting and signage is just road decoration but they'll drive as wide as they can to get around a cyclist.

Under the French "Code de la Route", motorists are legally required to pass cyclists with at least 1m to spare on urban roads and at least 1.5m on rural roads. German case law recognises a similar principle.

Cyclist.ie is looking for a similar traffic regulation in Ireland.

Raam

galwaycyclist wrote: »

Under the French "Code de la Route", motorists are legally required to pass cyclists with at least 1m to spare on urban roads and at least 1.5m on rural roads. German case law recognises a similar principle.

I must shout this at all the German motorists who flout this one whenever I am on the road. Those boys drive fast. Most are fine, but there are a few chancers who come closer than I would like them to. I'd love to see a law like that brought in here.

Coronal

galwaycyclist wrote: »

at least 1m to spare on urban roads and at least 1.5m on rural roads. German case law recognises a similar principle.

It doesn't really show that much over here. Cars have cleared me by inches a few more times than I'm comfortable with. It's possibly got to do with people being used to the cycle network (which is shocking if you want to get anywhere) leading to a general attitude of "get off the road". I get that shouted at me about once a week. I don't think I had one incident like this in Switzerland or France.

Caroline_ie

tomasrojo wrote: »

So some mopeds still have pedals anyway? I don't think the term is ever applied to a vehicle with pedals here, despite the obvious etymology.

You use pedals to start the moped!

tomasrojo

Caroline_ie wrote: »

You use pedals to start the moped!

Like the early cars with the crank?

Cookie_Monster

I HAD the extraordinary privilege of living in Paris for the whole month of July

:pac:

Rose tinted indeed...

Canis Lupus

Having just cycled through France from Roscoff to Spain last month I can say of the handful of 'close' passes the majority had Irish/GB plates. It amazed me all the way through just how much room motorists gave me to the point where oncoming traffic almost had to swerve out of the way and continuing this the French driver, if they came on me whilst going up a slow tight road (on a mountain or in a town) just happily sat back and waited for a place to pass calmly. The same can be said for Dutch, German and Swiss drivers that passed me along the way.

The trend is continuing in Spain as well. Even when cycling in the hard shoulder here, well away from the 'road' and with a clear road ahead an enormous amount of driver indicate and change lane or partially do anyway.

Having said that I met 4 Irish lads on the road yesterday who told me they had an awful time in Northern France last year...

Captain Havoc

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

:pac:

Rose tinted indeed...

Is a month long enough to be considered "living" in a place? Was he not just in Paris for a month?

Moflojo

Why didn't Frank stay over there? It must be so frustrating for him living in this dirty, uncivilised country. I don't know how he manages it at all, he's a living saint.

That article is just about on a par with a taxi driver rant, only Frank has the platform of the Irish Times to vent from.

Iwannahurl

tomasrojo wrote: »

Like the early cars with the crank?

The cranks are on bicycles now. I should know -- I'm a cyclist.

Iwannahurl

Moflojo wrote: »

Why didn't Frank stay over there? It must be so frustrating for him living in this dirty, uncivilised country. I don't know how he manages it at all, he's a living saint.

That article is just about on a par with a taxi driver rant, only Frank has the platform of the Irish Times to vent from.

Who needs a taxi licence or a job in the Irish Times when you can join Boards for free?

It is often very frustrating living in this often dirty, uncivilised and chaotic country.

I'm not convinced that cycling is so easy in Paris, though. When I was there recently I was impressed by the confidence of cyclists on those large and very busy roundabouts. Not sure I'd risk it myself.

Frank also mentioned the relative absence of "jay walking" in Paris, due to the provision of pedestrian priority crossings. That has not been my experience elsewhere in France. While staying in a provincial town a few years ago, I was impressed by the large number of zebra crossings, which are almost never seen in Ireland (TTBOMK). Then one day I went to cross while pushing a buggy. A (female) motorist came along as I was crossing and didn't even slow down. Turns out that what look like zebra crossings are just lines painted on the road. Serving suggestions, you might say.

Perhaps Paris is getting it right. The Velib' scheme seems to have made a big difference. The Dublin equivalent is a great success, and apart from getting more people on bikes and more bikes on the streets, it is helping to change mindsets as well as helping to change the Irish culture of car dependence.

clonmahon

Captain Havoc wrote: »

How as ever, I'm not saying that there aren't muppets out there, I had a heart in mouth moment yesterday when I thought someone was going to do a France television impression as they patiently waited behind me on straightish road and decided the best place to over take was on a blind bend with a car coming, I didn't know if she was going flick left into me, brake suddenly but both cars slowed down. A few minutes later on the same road someone decided to overtake me with an oncoming car which was visible well before any over taking maneuver should have started but I think he misjudged my speed and I had to slow down.

I cycle on rural roads, back roads and main roads. Dangerous overtaking is a fact of life for me. I see it almost everyday. There are a very large number of Irish drivers who do not know how to deal with cyclists. They think we are some kind of pedestrian on wheels, they think we should be riding in the gutter, they think we have no right to space on the road, they think we have no right to ride two abreast.

Yes the majority of Irish drivers are sensible and courteous, but there are a significant number who do not know the rules of the road as they apply to cyclists and they are a serious danger to cyclists. At this time of year also look out for such idiots pulling caravans. I consider a rear view mirror an essential piece of equipment for riding on rural roads.

Cookie_Monster

Captain Havoc wrote: »

Is a month long enough to be considered "living" in a place? Was he not just in Paris for a month?

a month in Paris is a month too long IMO