WTF is going on with the Briarhill roundabout?

lucianot

And I had to call a couple of times when I used to cycle in order to have the tunnel cleaned up of all the glass and burned wood the local vandals leave every night. That tunnel should be locked after 8pm every day. It is dangerous most of the times for that only reason.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

I live in the Roscam area and have to be at work in Ballybrit at 8. If I leave 5 minutes later than usual it takes me about 20 mins instead of 5 to reach the office. The funny part is that when you reach the roundabout at the entrance of Parkmore Business Park there is no blockage, accident or zombi attack,just people driving very slowly. The problem is there is only one line to accomodate por cars turning left and right at the roundabout.
Also usually there is a bus parked blocking the other side of the road because nobody in 10 years had the initiative to open a bay for the buses at the stop nor to mention building up a shelter for all the workers that use the service.
Rant!:D

Roscam to Ballybrit? That's a distance of about 4 km, right?

The OP referred to "massive tailbacks on the roundabout and dual carriageways due to people trying to get into work in Ballybrit."

I wonder what proportion of this traffic comprises motorists travelling a distance of, say, 4-5 km or less?

Have there been any surveys done on distances travelled and means of transport among the working population of Ballybrit and Parkmore?

I agree with you about the buses on the Parkmore Road. Simply ridiculous that they park on the footpath and that there is no bus bay or shelter. It's not as if there is no space available.

lucianot

Let's assume most of the traffic is composed buy those who live at more than 5Km away, ok?
This post is not ot defend my decision of not using public transportation even though I have very good reasons. Hint: I said I used to cycle to work

Iwannahurl

dell1211 wrote: »

Hold on a second, what ever bit of antisocial behavior occurs in that tunnel does so late a night, that tunnel is perfectly safe to use during the day(especially during the busy traffic times, and ive used it many many times). The whole reason the car haters want traffic lights at this roundabout is to help public transport move freely during busy times(which I cant see happening but thats not my point here, my point is that the traffic lights will ad very little benefit over what the tunnel already ads), which is only during the day so your argument about the tunnel being dangerous and not safe does not stand up for me as its only dangerous(if at all) during the night when
1.there is very little traffic about which will mean that lights will slow up the buses anyway and
2. there is very little pedestrian/cyclist movement at that junction at night anyway.

That tunnel is disliked by cyclists and pedestrians because of broken glass, security concerns and so on, and it is unfair and unrealistic to expect them to use it. I always avoided it, and the other so-called cycle "facilities" whenever I was in the area.

The level of service for pedestrians and cyclists on this roundabout (and for bus users, because of the inevitable congestion) is unsatisfactory, and a tunnel of this sort -- especially in the Irish context of anti-social behaviour, lack of enforcement and absence of maintenance -- does not meet their needs.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

Let's assume most of the traffic is composed buy those who live at more than 5Km away, ok?
This post is not ot defend my decision of not using public transportation even though I have very good reasons. Hint: I said I used to cycle to work

I never assume such things. I'd need to see reliable survey data showing commuting distances and travel modes.

4 km is about a 15 minute cycle, I think. I would suggest that a distance of up to 8 km or even more is manageable by bike.

As for taking the bus, I have been told that the #9 route is one of the most successful in the country, never mind just in Galway City.

Galway City and County Councils need to get their finger out and introduce a decent Park & Ride service.

Even if switching to sustainable transport modes took, say, one in five cars off the road in this area, that would be a substantial reduction in traffic congestion IMO.

kiwipower

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I never assume such things. I'd need to see reliable survey data showing commuting distances and travel modes.

4 km is about a 15 minute cycle, I think. I would suggest that a distance of up to 8 km or even more is manageable by bike.

As for taking the bus, I have been told that the #9 route is one of the most successful in the country, never mind just in Galway City.

Galway City and County Councils need to get their finger out and introduce a decent Park & Ride service.

Even if switching to sustainable transport modes took, say, one in five cars off the road in this area, that would be a substantial reduction in traffic congestion IMO.

Have you considered people who may not be able to cycle/walk or use public transport? (ie people with disabilities?)

Iwannahurl

kiwipower wrote: »

Have you considered people who may not be able to cycle/walk or use public transport? (ie people with disabilities?)

Of course. I strongly support the principle of universal access as well as sustainable transport.

In addition to the data on commuting distances, I'd be interested in seeing the figures for the numbers of people with disabilities (and their carers/relatives) working and living in the area.

BTW, with regard to disabled access to footpaths etc, see photos above.

lucianot

Great, the root of all the traffic problems is that people who live 4-5 km from work doesn't take the bus. Make them take the and then 99% of the issue goes away. I sense there is more to it than that.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

Great, the root of all the traffic problems is that people who live 4-5 km from work doesn't take the bus. Make them take the and then 99% of the issue goes away. I sense there is more to it than that.

Using your imaginary figure, if 99% of cars were taken off the road then I imagine there would be a corresponding improvement in traffic congestion.

IRL, much traffic congestion is caused by unnecessary car trips of one sort or another, especially when most of those cars are single-occupant only.

lucianot

Nice logic! What you are proposing is not improving the traffic but just simply getting rid of it.
Seriously do you expect some day everybody who lives in a 4-5km radius from work and is fit enough will be forced to walk, cycle or take the bus? Seriously?

dell1211

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Using your imaginary figure, if 99% of cars were taken off the road then I imagine there would be a corresponding improvement in traffic congestion.

IRL, much traffic congestion is caused by unnecessary car trips of one sort or another, especially when most of those cars are single-occupant only.

Its shambolic, those ignorant people who drive to work should all be burned, we should ignore the fact most of them have no alternative choice and ignore the 10,000 reasons for people in galway driving to work with the main ones being the west of irelands unpredictable weather, councils chaotic development plan of the last 30years(yes these are the same people that ye have so much faith in and will magically "fix" this traffic spot) or trying to get home to their children

Tell me this, if all these cars were taken of the road, what would you do with all your spare time seeing as most of it is currently spent ranting about cars to strangers on the internet and walking around the place taking photos of cars that are parked in a way that you dont like:rolleyes:

http://www.cso.ie/census/..%5Ccensus%5Cdocuments%5CIntroduction.pdf
Have a look at the maps on page 6 of the above pdf. It shows that a commuter belt around Galway that takes in most of the county.

People driving in and out of the city with no hope of any alternative is part of the problem.

I saw another chart once showing the transport choices for commuters in the city and most (as far as I can remember) people on the west side drove to work.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

Nice logic! What you are proposing is not improving the traffic but just simply getting rid of it.
Seriously do you expect some day everybody who lives in a 4-5km radius from work and is fit enough will be forced to walk, cycle or take the bus? Seriously?

I haven't used the word "forced" anywhere in my posts, IIRC.

Are you suggesting that I am being illogical somewhere?

Reducing traffic reduces congestion. I would have thought that was self-evident.

lucianot

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I haven't used the word "forced" anywhere in my posts, IIRC.

Are you suggesting that I am being illogical somewhere?

Reducing traffic reduces congestion. I would have thought that was self-evident.

I didn't say illogical but most like funny logic. Of course that congestion reduces if you get rid of traffic! We agree on that and would be nice to see less cars on the streets but is not plausible mainly due to other factors besides people not walking, cycling or taking the bus.
I would like to see more people sharing their cars and I think you can really encourage that behavior but not so easily the rest which conflicts with personal freedom and choises, etc.
So let's concentrate on plausible solutions then and do not forget that economy does also relies partially on car sales...you can't go asking people to buy cars (and expecting them to do so) and then tax them without limits or asking them to leave them at home.
Wait, you can!

Iwannahurl

dell1211 wrote: »

Its shambolic, those ignorant people who drive to work should all be burned, we should ignore the fact most of them have no alternative choice and ignore the 10,000 reasons for people in galway driving to work with the main ones being the west of irelands unpredictable weather, councils chaotic development plan of the last 30years(yes these are the same people that ye have so much faith in and will magically "fix" this traffic spot) or trying to get home to their children

Tell me this, if all these cars were taken of the road, what would you do with all your spare time seeing as most of it is currently spent ranting about cars to strangers on the internet and walking around the place taking photos of cars that are parked in a way that you dont like:rolleyes:

Every motorist switching to bus, bike or Shank's pony is one less car on the road. That is a simple fact.

Reducing traffic will reduce congestion. That is another fact.

I am a motorist and a parent. I also transport my children by bike, on foot and by bus. In my experience people who travel by these sustainable means -- with or without children -- have been sorely neglected (even abused) for years.

Finally there are some small encouraging signs that the trend is beginning to go the other way, ie gradually towards a higher level of service for sustainable transport and active commuting.

Apart from infrastructural changes, eg the conversion of the hideous roundabouts to signalised junctions, I believe there is also a need for other measures to promote active travel and disincentivise unnecessary car use. Such measures could include Park & Ride, congestion charging and the like.

IMO a congestion charge in particular would very quickly reveal that many of the "reasons" for car dependence are actually just excuses. I've been there myself, and I know how it goes.

BTW, I agree that Galway City Council are not to be trusted. However, I'm still glad to see them finally addressing issues -- such as dangerous and superfluous roundabouts -- that they should have dealt with years ago.

lucianot

I wouldn't transport my son on a bike in Galway except in the limits of a park. It's just too dangerous, sorry.
I am up for the congestion charge but just for the city center but there is a problem, the lack of alternate roads and infrastructure will render this impossible to execute.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

I didn't say illogical but most like funny logic. Of course that congestion reduces if you get rid of traffic! We agree on that and would be nice to see less cars on the streets but is not plausible mainly due to other factors besides people not walking, cycling or taking the bus.
I would like to see more people sharing their cars and I think you can really encourage that behavior but not so easily the rest which conflicts with personal freedom and choises, etc.
So let's concentrate on plausible solutions then and do not forget that economy does also relies partially on car sales...you can't go asking people to buy cars (and expecting them to do so) and then tax them without limits or asking them to leave them at home.
Wait, you can!

There is no doubt that bad "planning" in Galway City and County has led to car dependence. Neverthless, it remains the case that a substantial proportion of the city population lives within a reasonable distance of work or education that is suited to other modes of transport.

I see unnecessary car use all the time, eg my neighbours who drive their children 800 metres to school. There is also an awful lot of inappropriate car use, eg the people who insist on driving right to the door of their destination and who then park on the footpath.

Personal choice is all very well, but an accumulation of such personal choices has a major collective effect. Local, national and international policy is inexorably moving towards increasing emphasis on sustainability (eg commitments on CO2 emissions). There are no low-cost or free ways to continue facilitating car use.

Incidentally, I read a piece in the Irish Times recently (can't find the link) which indicated, IIRC, that if you're commuting a total of just 16 km daily and switch from the car to the bike, you could save €300 annually just on fuel costs.

And yes indeed you can tax people. It happens all the time in every civilised country, and it's happening more and more here. Tax is an ideal instrument of public policy, though that is not to say that it is never painful or misdirected.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

I wouldn't transport my son on a bike in Galway except in the limits of a park. It's just too dangerous, sorry.
I am up for the congestion charge but just for the city center but there is a problem, the lack of alternate roads and infrastructure will render this impossible to execute.

Which is why there is a pressing need for traffic reduction and speed reduction, as per current national policy.

I would have thought that a lack of alternate roads would be useful in implementing a congestion charge, eg no opportunity for dodging the charge via rat runs.

In any case, such a measure is a long way off, IMO, politically and fiscally.

lucianot

Just to day dream, here are two videos by the City Council showing the before and after the new layout. It works! :P

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/Model.html

kiwipower

lucianot wrote: »

Just to day dream, here are two videos by the City Council showing the before and after the new layout. It works! :P

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/Model.html

Funny but I think they have underestimated the present amount of traffic coming from the Roundabout by the Galway Clinic approaching the roundabout with the M6. They have even further underestimated the amount of traffic that would flow from the M6 and the old N6 onto this roundabout if the traffic was more free flowing.

For example I travel from Limerick/Clare to work in the UGH there are about 6 of my collegues that make the same or similar journey (plus another 4or so from Oranmore.) 50% of us would take the Briar Hill ring road route while the other 50% take the Dublin road route. If one become quicker than the other a few would swap routes causing more of a back up again.

I also see alot of cars that come off the M6 going back to the Galway Clinic roundabout to access the Dublin Road if the Briar Hill direction looks busy.

apoeiguq3094y

kiwipower wrote: »

Funny but I think they have underestimated the present amount of traffic coming from the Roundabout by the Galway Clinic approaching the roundabout with the M6. They have even further underestimated the amount of traffic that would flow from the M6 and the old N6 onto this roundabout if the traffic was more free flowing.

For example I travel from Limerick/Clare to work in the UGH there are about 6 of my collegues that make the same or similar journey (plus another 4or so from Oranmore.) 50% of us would take the Briar Hill ring road route while the other 50% take the Dublin road route. If one become quicker than the other a few would swap routes causing more of a back up again.

I also see alot of cars that come off the M6 going back to the Galway Clinic roundabout to access the Dublin Road if the Briar Hill direction looks busy.

AFAIK they aren't estimates. The council have been counting cars with those strips across the roads and some of those traffic cameras. I haven't seen them lately, but they had a big counting operation going in the spring.

lucianot

Yes, the fictional part would be the "after" video.

Iwannahurl

lucianot wrote: »

Yes, the fictional part would be the "after" video.

"Fictional"? Far be it from me to speak out in support of Galway City Council, but I would hazard a guess that their engineering consultants' traffic flow models are far more valid and reliable than motorists' perceptions and anecdotes, or the opinions of boards.ie members.

lucianot

Iwannahurl wrote: »

"Fictional"? Far be it from me to speak out in support of Galway City Council, but I would hazard a guess that their engineering consultants' traffic flow models are far more valid and reliable than motorists' perceptions and anecdotes, or the opinions of boards.ie members.

Give us some credit, the Moneenageisha junction had to be redesigned isn't?

kabakuyu

Iwannahurl wrote: »

"Fictional"? Far be it from me to speak out in support of Galway City Council, but I would hazard a guess that their engineering consultants' traffic flow models are far more valid and reliable than motorists' perceptions and anecdotes, or the opinions of boards.ie members.

Just like the moneenageisha junction

Iwannahurl

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056192455

softmee

Iwannahurl wrote: »

I also transport my children by bike, on foot and by bus. In my experience people who travel by these sustainable means -- with or without children -- have been sorely neglected (even abused) for years.

I so much agree about it! I like to walk and cycle, but living in Galway put me of it for good! No pedestrian crossings, no paths for cyclist and general -bad manners on the road.

Iwannahurl

Walkers, cyclists, bus users: we're just society's losers.

softmee

Iwannahurl wrote: »

Walkers, cyclists, bus users: we're just society's losers.

Yes- people have to get on car to go for milk from local shop and they think they are in a better possition while in a car- no! Let pedestrian cross the street from time to time! You are not getting wet on rain and you can wait two seconds!

James Forde

lucianot wrote: »

Just to day dream, here are two videos by the City Council showing the before and after the new layout. It works! :P

http://www.galwaycity.ie/GTU/Model.html

That has got to be a joke.................

Do they seriously believe those video's accurately represent a before and after picture.

A fúcking pack of clowns we have running this city