The Comeback Trail

drquirky · 18-08-2011 5:38pm #1

Ok-

I figured I'd start doing one of these. Here is my background-

33/m

I was a University level runner in the USA in the late 90's but haven't run competitively since 1998. My PR's (from 13 yrs ago eek!) are 15:42 5k, 26:01 8k 32:50 10k. After college I took an extended vacation from anything resembling exercise. I've tried a few half hearted comebacks but they haven't resulted in me getting back into shape. That is until the past year. I've run 30 mpw consistently for the past 14 months and have just started doing proper speed workouts again. Over the last month and a half I've upped my milage to 50-60 pw as I am training for DCM.

Recent results with minimal speed work have been a 38:08 at the DLR 10k and a 18:06 5k in Celbridge last week. I'm hoping to run under 3 hrs at DCM and feel as though I'm improving with every workout. I'm starting to feel fairly quick and the runs are coming pretty easy.

I want to keep a log here for myself but would also welcome any comments as I'm not really following a particular plan, merely using some of the stuff I remember from my competitive days! So here goes!!!

drquirky · 18-08-2011 5:42pm

Ok so here is last week

Monday 11/8 15 miles 7:45 pace

Tuesday 6 miles easy

Weds Rest Day

Thursday Tempo Run 8 miles at 6:45 pace 2 miles easy

Friday 8 miles easy

Saturday 8 miles easy

Sunday Celbridge 5k 18:06 2 mile warm up 2 mile cool down
Total miles 53

drquirky · 18-08-2011 5:45pm

Ok so here is last week

Monday 11/8 15 miles 7:45 pace

Tuesday 6 miles easy

Weds Rest Day

Thursday Tempo Run 8 miles at 6:45 pace 2 miles easy

Friday 8 miles easy

Saturday 8 miles easy

Sunday Celbridge 5k 18:06 2 mile warm up 2 mile cool down
Total miles 53

ecoli · 18-08-2011 5:45pm

drquirky wrote: »

Ok-

I figured I'd start doing one of these. Here is my background-

33/m

I was a University level runner in the USA in the late 90's but haven't run competitively since 1998. My PR's (from 13 yrs ago eek!) are 15:42 5k, 26:01 8k 32:50 10k. After college I took an extended vacation from anything resembling exercise. I've tried a few half hearted comebacks but they haven't resulted in me getting back into shape. That is until the past year. I've run 30 mpw consistently for the past 14 months and have just started doing proper speed workouts again. Over the last month and a half I've upped my milage to 50-60 pw as I am training for DCM.

Recent results with minimal speed work have been a 38:08 at the DLR 10k and a 18:06 5k in Celbridge last week. I'm hoping to run under 3 hrs at DCM and feel as though I'm improving with every workout. I'm starting to feel fairly quick and the runs are coming pretty easy.

I want to keep a log here for myself but would also welcome any comments as I'm not really following a particular plan, merely using some of the stuff I remember from my competitive days! So here goes!!!

Best of luck on the come back. Are you being coached now or following a plan or self coaching? Looking at your times over the shorter results 3hrs is a very do able target for you.

May I ask what college you were in? Always great to get insights from athletes who chose the US option and the experiences they had with it

drquirky · 18-08-2011 5:58pm

...and this week so far

Monday 18 miles- started at 8 min pace down to 7:20 for miles 10-18

Tuesday Rest (biked 20 miles though)

Wednesday 10 miles but quarter mile repeats after a 2 mile warm up. 12 Quarters at 75-78 secs with 200 meter jog rest. 4 mile cool down

Thursday 8 miles easy ....

drquirky · 18-08-2011 6:03pm

ecoli wrote: »

Best of luck on the come back. Are you being coached now or following a plan or self coaching? Looking at your times over the shorter results 3hrs is a very do able target for you.

May I ask what college you were in? Always great to get insights from athletes who chose the US option and the experiences they had with it

Thanks ecoli! I am self coaching (we'll see how that goes lol) I ran at Franklin and Marshall College in Pennsylvania. We were in D3 but qualified for the D3 X -Country Nationals a couple of times during my career. I am originally from the USA so not sure I'd be a great source of info from an Irish perspective but certainly enjoyed my time in College Athletics....

brownian · 18-08-2011 6:14pm

Welcome aboards

Sub-3 looks very feasible, given your speed over the shorter distance and your already plunging into the longer runs.

Will follow your log with interest!

drquirky · 19-08-2011 12:18pm

Ok- tried compression socks for the first time today- not sure what I think...
Most of my runs are in the Phoenix Park and today was no different.

Did 6 miles at easy tempo with an easy mile before and after

Splits went:
6:47
6:47
6:45 (first three miles are really hilly)
6:40
6:32
6:29

Felt pretty good and didn't kill me for effort- is this a decent enough tempo exercise for what I'm trying to do (sub 3hrs?)

Krusty_Clown · 19-08-2011 1:09pm

Hi drquirky, Well done in the DLR 10k. It was a tough course. A flatter 10k would probably yield a faster time, so you're looking good for your target.

McMillan suggests around 6:13-6:30 for a 2:59 marathon finish and I'd tend to agree. Your recent 10k pace was around 6:07/mile, so 6:13-6:30 would be somewhere between 10 mile pace and 1/2 marathon pace, which should be achievable (on flat even terrain). however, you may want to build up to that tempo pace, rather than try to hit 6 miles out of the blocks, e.g. week: 1 - 7 miles with 4 miles @tempo, week 2: 8 miles with 5 miles @tempo etc.. What do you think ecoli?

drquirky · 01-09-2011 9:48am

Last 10 days has been kind of strange. I raced 10 days ago in Leitrim on an absolutely ridiculous 4 mile course full of crazy hills. Ran 23:52. I had to travel to Sweden and ended up picking up a cold. Last week I only ran 40 miles as a result. That being said went out for 18 two days ago and ran it at 7:30 pace. (2hrs 15) Felt really good so that perked me up!

On target for 60 miles again this week but looking for a suggestion for a speed workout tomorrow? I've been making a concerted effort to pick up the pace on my training runs so a good amount of my training runs are starting at 7:45- 7:30 pace and ending up in 6:30-6:45 pace I think this is probably a good thing?

Final question- with 10 weeks to go before Dublin how many more heavy weeks am I looking at? Also is 60 miles per week a good number or should I increase it? Thanks for the help all....

ecoli · 01-09-2011 12:43pm

drquirky wrote: »

On target for 60 miles again this week but looking for a suggestion for a speed workout tomorrow? I've been making a concerted effort to pick up the pace on my training runs so a good amount of my training runs are starting at 7:45- 7:30 pace and ending up in 6:30-6:45 pace I think this is probably a good thing?

Final question- with 10 weeks to go before Dublin how many more heavy weeks am I looking at? Also is 60 miles per week a good number or should I increase it? Thanks for the help all....

Nothing wrong with progression runs many coaches advocate this. Main thing is that you are not doing this every day as you need to give your body time to recover and adapt from the hard efforts

The next 7-8 weeks should be used as specific race prep phase. Basically now you should be working on preparing the body to cope with the specific demands of the marathon.

Looking at your running background the speed is your strength and need to start working more towards your endurance. Having said that there should be odd session to keep the body in touch with speed but aim to keep this marathon specific.

Regarding mileage. There is no magic number for this. Different bodies are able to cope differently with varying amounts of mileage. Some people can handle 40-50 miles max before the body breaks down others can hit 100+ without much difficulty in terms of injuries. I would say if you can increase without compromising your training do so but build gradually (perhaps add a morning run once a week and go from there)

In terms of sessions as I mentioned earlier the aim should be specific. With my athletes I try to rotate the long run every other week to include MP miles so over a two week period I would have an athlete do the follow

Week 1 - 2 sessions, LSR and remainder easy running
Week 2 - 1 session, LSR + MP miles and the remainder easy running

This template allows athletes to get paced miles one week and time on there feet the following which allows their body to develop. Main thing when looking at sessions is to establish how it is going to fit into the overall plan. Each training session is just one piece of the puzzle

In terms of the other sessions during the specific phase for the marathon here are a few examples which can be used:

7-10 miles @ MP
5 miles tempo (HMP)
4x5k @ slightly slower than HMP with 3 min recoveries (can subsititute LSR if include 2-3 miles w/u and c/d)
6x 1 mile @ 10 mile pace - HMP

If you are looking to try more speed based work for a marathon runner my advice would be to keep the number of reps high with the recovery low

Few of my favourites include:

16x400 @ 10k pace off 30-45 secs
8x800 @ 10k pace off 90 sec
6x1000 @ 10k pace off 2 min

Again you can mix and match these as much as you want but main thing is keep the volume up and the recovery short in order to get proper benefits as a marathon runner.

Another few sessions I have found useful over the last few years with training people are these:

5 miles easy, 12x800m (Alternate between 6.47 and 6.57 pace all continuous running)

Instead of LSR
1 mile easy, 1 MP, 2 easy, 2 MP, 3 easy, 3 MP, 2 easy, 2 MP, 1 easy 1 MP (18 total)
15 miles MP (usually last long run before taper)

Hope this helps

drquirky · 02-09-2011 9:51am

Thanks Ecoli!
That is really excellent advice and I really appreciate the workouts you listed for me. To that end- I did the 6 x 1mile yesterday- I put a quarter mile jog as a rest in between repeats. My splits were 6:14, 6:14, 6:10, 5:59, 5:59, 6:10. TBH I was pretty happy and felt that this was a good workout!

I've been reading a bit on the importance of marathon specific training and it makes sense...

drquirky · 05-09-2011 3:07pm

Finished up last week with 8 miles easy, rest day and 8 miles easy- giving me a total of 55 miles for the week. Good session today- long run w/ 1 mile at marathon pace/ 1 mile at 7:30 pace.... Kept my splits around 6:45-6:55 on the miles at PMP went 20 miles doing this so did 10 miles at PMP felt strong and finished the run in 2:26 for 20 miles...

My knee seems to be acting up a bit with some soreness/ tightness on the inside of the knee that goes away after a couple of miles but then comes back the next morning- think I'll go get a massage....

drquirky · 07-09-2011 3:48pm

Tuesday- Did a 6 mile recovery run which was needed and felt good. My rule for recovery runs is I don't wear my Garmin- this is so I'm not tempted to up pace or hammer.

Wednesday- got a massage - felt really good after. This was my first one and I think its a good call to get a few of these leading up to DCM. A couple of hours after the massage I headed out to Phoenix Park for a tempo run... 2 miles warm up 10k at tempo and 2 miles cool down. Ended up running the 10k in 38:32 which I was delighted with. felt great and this was a good confidence builder as I ran the first 10k of the National Lottery Half Marathon on the 17th...Not sure what kind time I can run as I've never raced a half...Hoping for 1:22 or thereabouts...

ecoli · 07-09-2011 3:55pm

drquirky wrote: »

Tuesday- Did a 6 mile recovery run which was needed and felt good. My rule for recovery runs is I don't wear my Garmin- this is so I'm not tempted to up pace or hammer.

Wednesday- got a massage - felt really good after. This was my first one and I think its a good call to get a few of these leading up to DCM. A couple of hours after the massage I headed out to Phoenix Park for a tempo run... 2 miles warm up 10k at tempo and 2 miles cool down. Ended up running the 10k in 38:32 which I was delighted with. felt great and this was a good confidence builder as I ran the first 10k of the National Lottery Half Marathon on the 17th...Not sure what kind time I can run as I've never raced a half...Hoping for 1:22 or thereabouts...

Solid run given you had a massage this morning i reckon your legs have alot more in them. Normally after a massage I am always told I will feel my best a day or 2 later so fact you hit the 38.30 for a tempo is very encouraging. How did the knee hold up?

drquirky · 07-09-2011 4:19pm

Yeah the knee held up fine think it was just a tweak. FTR got the massage off a rec you made in one of the threads thanks for that Ecoli!

ecoli · 07-09-2011 4:24pm

drquirky wrote: »

Yeah the knee held up fine think it was just a tweak. FTR got the massage off a rec you made in one of the threads thanks for that Ecoli!

You mean Vinny? Have yet to find anyone in Dublin to beat him. He is who i get my massages off regularly (which reminds me need to book in next week:D). I think it also helps that he is a very experienced runner himself who has been through fair amount of injuries so he can empathize.

Back to your training and looking at it there is no reason why you shouldnt hit the 1.22 target you are aiming for. Alot of your running seems to be well geared towards a good half effort.

drquirky · 07-09-2011 4:33pm

ecoli wrote: »

You mean Vinny? Have yet to find anyone in Dublin to beat him. He is who i get my massages off regularly (which reminds me need to book in next week:D). I think it also helps that he is a very experienced runner himself who has been through fair amount of injuries so he can empathize.

Back to your training and looking at it there is no reason why you shouldnt hit the 1.22 target you are aiming for. Alot of your running seems to be well geared towards a good half effort.

Yup- Vinny is the guy. Seemed great and I've booked with him for next week as well. You mentioned my training looks good for a half effort but do you think its going ok for a full marathon as well?

ecoli · 07-09-2011 4:52pm

drquirky wrote: »

Yup- Vinny is the guy. Seemed great and I've booked with him for next week as well. You mentioned my training looks good for a half effort but do you think its going ok for a full marathon as well?

Looking at your training It does seem like its going pretty well in terms of marathon also. I think you are definitely on course for breaking the 3 hour mark looking at your training but to be honest I think you are kinda selling yourself short. As your training progresses I would introduce more sustained PMP efforts than mile on mile off Perhaps 5 on/5off or even half and half. I definitely think you have it in you to tackle mid to low 2.50s.
You have had a patient build up and your shorter sessions are going great and as you come closer to the Full I think introducing more race specific stuff you will see huge improvement. I do like the variety in your training however and i think this will yield major benefits

drquirky · 13-09-2011 9:42am

Finished off last week with a couple of 9 mile runs on Friday and Sunday the second of the two being at PMP (6:45). I'm a little worried I may have messed up a bit as I did my 20 mile LSR on last Monday and I didn't do one over the weekend. I'm racing the half on Saturday so I'm gonna put in an 18 or 19 mile day then- I ran 11 yesterday but I'm hoping the 12 day gap in between long runs won't be a problem!

Miles last week= 61 happy enough with my milage feeling good...

ecoli · 13-09-2011 9:45am

drquirky wrote: »

Finished off last week with a couple of 9 mile runs on Friday and Sunday the second of the two being at PMP (6:45). I'm a little worried I may have messed up a bit as I did my 20 mile LSR on last Monday and I didn't do one over the weekend. I'm racing the half on Saturday so I'm gonna put in an 18 or 19 mile day then- I ran 11 yesterday but I'm hoping the 12 day gap in between long runs won't be a problem!

Miles last week= 61 happy enough with my milage feeling good...

While the long runs are an important part of training you need to factor in the weekly mileage as a whole also so I wouldnt worry about missing the odd LSR (especially if you put in a 9 PMP mile run) Consistency is the key and this is something you seem to have in abundance.

drquirky · 13-09-2011 12:33pm

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Ecoli!

I know The Roadrunner suggested a fartlek on Weds in another thread but I decided to do 3 quick mile repeats off of 90 sec jog rest as it is easy and quick.
2 mile warm up then splits were 6:07, 5:58, 5:48. These were mostly into the wind and on the HM course. Good stuff I like this kind of workout a few days before a race- short but well faster than HM pace should hopefully make 6:17/6:16 seem easy!

drquirky · 15-09-2011 1:15pm

Weds: Started the day with a massage- great stuff as the legs are pretty tired at this point- felt fresh after it. Went out for a very easy 6 mile spin around 8 minute pace. Felt fine

Thurs: Easy 5.5 mile run at 7:45 pace- hope I am all set for the HM on Saturday- still not feeling totally perky but I suppose this is to be expected as I've put in some decent training recently. Think I'll head out tomorrow for something very short and easy w/ strides- maybe 4 miles max...Feels strange to be going on these short runs after weeks of never really doing anything shorter than 7 or 8!

Looking to go 1:22 or thereabouts on Saturday good luck to everyone else running!

ecoli · 15-09-2011 5:44pm

drquirky wrote: »

Looking to go 1:22 or thereabouts on Saturday good luck to everyone else running!

Best of luck at the weekend

drquirky · 17-09-2011 6:39pm

Good day all around- Started a bit far back in the first wave and spent the first mile batting slower runners out of the way which is very frustrating. As a result came through in 6:25 but wasn't the worse thing in the world. Ran the first 5 in 31:20 and came through 10 in 62:40 so very even pacing which I am really happy about. Felt very strong the whole way and definitely felt like I had more in me so that is a good sign for DCM.

Overall a fun day but I had to split fast as I had the league championship softball (silly American Sport) game to play. My team ended up winning which was a great cap to the day. Happy enough with the race but I really think the waves need to be better policed... This was my first HM race so obviously a PB which is always nice!!!

ecoli · 17-09-2011 9:46pm

drquirky wrote: »

Good day all around- Started a bit far back in the first wave and spent the first mile batting slower runners out of the way which is very frustrating. As a result came through in 6:25 but wasn't the worse thing in the world. Ran the first 5 in 31:20 and came through 10 in 62:40 so very even pacing which I am really happy about. Felt very strong the whole way and definitely felt like I had more in me so that is a good sign for DCM.

Overall a fun day but I had to split fast as I had the league championship softball (silly American Sport) game to play. My team ended up winning which was a great cap to the day. Happy enough with the race but I really think the waves need to be better policed... This was my first HM race so obviously a PB which is always nice!!!

Well done on the race I know you were looking for in around that time and the manner you did it in with such even splitting suggests there is more to come certainly bodes well for the marathon and then to go and play softball without seizing up fair play

drquirky · 21-09-2011 4:52pm

Happy days. Recovered from the HM with a 6 mile recovery run on Sunday. That had me finishing the week at 61 miles and thats even with a mini taper for the HM.

Monday was 9 miles at 7:10 pace

Tuesday off- hadn't taken a day off running in 10 days so figured I deserved it!!

Wednesday 2 1.5 mile warm up 1 mile @6:30 pace 90 sec rest 2 miles @6:30 pace 90 secs rest 3 miles @ 6:35 pace 90 secs rest 2 miles @ 6:38 pace 90 secs rest 1 mile @ 6:20 pace 1.5 mile cool down. Think this was a pretty quality wokout- didn't feel amazing tbh but worked hard and got through it. Gonna take it pretty easy now until the fast LSR I'm planning for Saturday...

Krusty_Clown · 21-09-2011 8:15pm

Well done on the half marathon. Very solid time. If you get your long run strategy right, you should be looking at a very good time in DCM. Have you re-assessed your target, or are you sticking with sub-3?

drquirky · 21-09-2011 8:37pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Well done on the half marathon. Very solid time. If you get your long run strategy right, you should be looking at a very good time in DCM. Have you re-assessed your target, or are you sticking with sub-3?

Hey Krusty... I was thinking maybe 2:56- reckon I could hold 6:43's pretty comfortably. Do you think that seems doable? Last thing I want is to blow up !

Krusty_Clown · 21-09-2011 8:40pm

drquirky wrote: »

Hey Krusty... I was thinking maybe 2:56- reckon I could hold 6:43's pretty comfortably. Do you think that seems doable? Last thing I want is to blow up !

As long as you are getting the long runs done and the pmp miles in at that pace, it looks very doable. Seems like a good target, and you may even be in a position to pick up the pace after 20-22 miles on the big day.

drquirky · 24-09-2011 3:41pm

Thursday- 6 miles recovery run- nothing remarkable

Friday 6 miles @ 7:15 pace- easy enough saw the lovely Kathryn Thomas on my run in the War Memorial Gardens- didn't really look in sub-3 shape to me!

Saturday 20 miles w/ Brownian. We set off at just under 7 minute pace- stopped for water at 9, I stopped my watch during the water break. Started it back up and we hit 68 minutes for 10 miles. Actual running time was bang on 1:30 for the half so we were moving at a good clip. Day was pretty hot and I ended up pretty dehydrated at 15- Brownian thankfully was ok that we stopped and got a couple of drinks- life saver. Ended up banging out the last few k at a bit below 6:45 pace, compensating slightly for the dehydrated slog through miles 15-17. Finished in 2:25 if we counted the breaks but actual running time was 2:19 and change....think this was a helpful run to me as I had to dig a bit deep when I was feeling crap. Brownian btw is look seriously fit as he blew me away on Chesterfield at the end. I was running 6:45's at this point so he must have been down at 6:30 or less pace. Impressive stuff...

The Comeback Trail

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