Help with budget(ish) gaming PC

Anatidaephobia

Hey there. I'm planning on building a PC (from scratch - I have nothing) for gaming sometime soon and I was hoping some of you lovely people could help me with choosing parts. I am not completely obsessed with the best graphics, but I would like to run newer games such as BF3 on at least medium-y settings. Although I would like to keep it as cheap as possibly, I'd also like it to be fairly future-proof. I've made a few choices down below, but I need help with a few parts, and it'd be great if you guys could advise me on any changes I should make.

Intel Core i5-2400 - €153

Xigmatek Asgard II Midi Tower - black/black, ohne Netzteil - €33

Spinpoint F3 1000gb - €45

8gb G.Skill RAM - €33

Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA

Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W

Graphics: I was thinking a Radeon 6850, or 6870. Thoughts?

Mobo: Depending on the price, I'd prefer something that has crossfire, so I can upgrade the graphics card easily sometime in the future.

Cooler: Do I need one?

I also need everything else you'd associate with a PC - Monitor, mouse, wireless card, speakers, etc.

Thanks in advance.

Headshot

Do you really need 8gb ram for gaming?

usually 4gb would be enough afaik

Anatidaephobia

Thanks for the quick reply. Yeah, that's probably a good point, but it is a good bargain! :P

Tea_Bag

what's your total budget Op? we can work from there.

Anatidaephobia

My budget is somewhat adjustable, but I don't want to needlessly waste money. I suppose €800 is as good a target as any, but we'll have that as a ceiling - I don't want you guys suggesting 16g gigs of RAM just to get it up to €800. :P


EDIT: For a second there, I forgot I'm buying everything. Feel free to suggest over the budget if you think 800 is too much including peripherals.

Solitaire

Headshot wrote: »

Do you really need 8gb ram for gaming?

usually 4gb would be enough afaik

DDR3 - and especially 4GB modules - are stupefyingly cheap at the moment. Well, PC10600 is anyway. But the more expensive modules give little added benefit and usually require the target system to be BIOS-tweaked to run them at speeds greater than the usual 1333MHz anyway. So two 4GB modules has become the norm, at €35-40 per pair. Yes, 8GB RAM for €35. Madness

OP - do you need Windows? And do you use speakers or are you really a headphones user?

Headshot

Solitaire wrote: »

DDR3 - and especially 4GB modules - are stupefyingly cheap at the moment. Well, PC10600 is anyway. But the more expensive modules give little added benefit and usually require the target system to be BIOS-tweaked to run them at speeds greater than the usual 1333MHz anyway. So two 4GB modules has become the norm, at €35-40 per pair. Yes, 8GB RAM for €35. Madness

OP - do you need Windows? And do you use speakers or are you really a headphones user?

wow

I might upgrade to the 8gb

Anatidaephobia

Yes, I do need Windows. I would like a pair of speakers, but nothing fancy. I currently get by with a generic Dell set that came with the old machine.

Headshot

windows 7 oem is an option

(once your not upgrading the motherboard for some time)

shinfujiwara

What mobo are you thinking on buying? About the i5 2400, I honestly don't think a gamer should buy it. On budget or not.

The reason being the 2500K is just a little more and anyone can overclock it. People do it automatically with software sometimes. It's really easy. Much better to do it manually, though.

i7 2600k and i5 2500k are beasts for gaming. Having those means you have no worries about CPU bottleneck for a long time. Just keep changing your GPU as you need it.

Anatidaephobia

i7 is a bit OTT for me, so I suppose it'll be the i5 2500k. To be honest, I have no idea what Motherboard I should get, I was hoping some of you could help me with that.

deconduo

Do you have a set budget? That would help with picking out the parts. Here is a sample build that would work, but its probably over budget for you:

Total build cost: €658.11 + €30 shipping
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9 €33.65
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €45.14
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W €52.46
ASUS EAH6870 DC/2DI2S/1GD5, AMD Radeon HD 6870, 1GB, PCI- Express €142.81
Thermaltake Armor A90 VL90001W2Z, ohne Netzteil €62.52
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA €16.52
ASRock P67 Extreme4 (B3), Sockel 1155, ATX €129.53
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €175.48

Anatidaephobia

A lot of that looks fine to me, with a few exceptions:
Case: I think I'd prefer to stick with the €30 cheaper version in my original post, unless the one you posted has any huge benefits?

Graphics: I was debating between getting the 6850 and the 6870. I see there is only a tenner difference, so I presume it's worth the money.

Motherboard: Mobo's aren't really my strong suit (Well, nothing is, but motherboards even less so), and I don't know a huge amount about them. Where would that one you suggested be considered on a scale? Mid-range ish? Is that the cheapest Crossfire mobo?

I also need a wireless card, cheap speakers, Windows 7, and can anyone suggest a cheap but relatively decent monitor? Around the €100 mark?


Also: I would prefer it under 800, but I'm not sure how realistic that is considering the peripherals.

deconduo

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

A lot of that looks fine to me, with a few exceptions:
Case: I think I'd prefer to stick with the €30 cheaper version in my original post, unless the one you posted has any huge benefits?

Graphics: I was debating between getting the 6850 and the 6870. I see there is only a tenner difference, so I presume it's worth the money.

Motherboard: Mobo's aren't really my strong suit (Well, nothing is, but motherboards even less so), and I don't know a huge amount about them. Where would that one you suggested be considered on a scale? Mid-range ish? Is that the cheapest Crossfire mobo?

I also need a wireless card, cheap speakers, Windows 7, and can anyone suggest a cheap but relatively decent monitor? Around the €100 mark?

Yeah its hard to recommend the 6850 when the 6870 is only a small bit more. I bumped up the case because if you want to crossfire you need to have better airflow and cooling. For a single graphics card the Asgard is fine, but its too cramped for crossfire.

The motherboard is the best value crossfire motherboard around. There are cheaper options if you'd prefer though.

Any cheap PCI wireless card should do the trick.

Monitor:
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=26844&agid=603

Anatidaephobia

Thanks for the help, you're being awesome, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to badger you a bit more now.

Crossfire is not on the top of my list right now, so how much could I conceivably take off the final price if I was to close the crossfire option?

deconduo

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

Thanks for the help, you're being awesome, but I'm afraid I'm going to have to badger you a bit more now.

Crossfire is not on the top of my list right now, so how much could I conceivably take off the final price if I was to close the crossfire option?

Yep, if you didn't need crossfire I would bump up the graphics card instead and go with something like this:

Total build cost: €627.13 + €30 shipping
8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9 €33.65
Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB, SATA II (HD103SJ) €45.14
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W €52.46
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA €16.52
Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155 €175.48
Club 3D Radeon 6950 1024MB, AMD Radeon HD 6950, PCI-Express €188.59
ASRock P67 Pro3 (B3), Sockel 1155, ATX €83.63
Xigmatek Asgard II Midi Tower - black/silver, ohne Netzteil €31.66

That gives you better performance now, though without the option of crossfire later.

Solitaire

shinfujiwara wrote: »

What mobo are you thinking on buying? About the i5 2400, I honestly don't think a gamer should buy it. On budget or not.

The reason being the 2500K is just a little more and anyone can overclock it. People do it automatically with software sometimes. It's really easy. Much better to do it manually, though.

i7 2600k and i5 2500k are beasts for gaming. Having those means you have no worries about CPU bottleneck for a long time. Just keep changing your GPU as you need it.

Wrong and wrong.

- i5-2400 is powerful enough for 99% of stuff. Until Bulldozer comes out its the second-best CPU for gaming on the market.
- i5-2500k may be OCable, but for many gamers the extra throughput isn't worth the extra €60-80 you'd need to pay for the chip and a compatible mobo - remember, the chip remains locked down unless you put it on a much pricier P67 or Z68 mobo. For gaming the extra money is often better spent on the part more likely to bottleneck - the graphics card.
- i7-2600k isn't even that great for a pure gaming rig - the HT is a disadvantage more often than not, using more power, generating more heat and giving little gain or even a drop in FPS on most titles. And then there's the fact that it is a good jump in price over even a 2500k+Z68 combo... only a high-end workstation/protein-folder that also sees use as a games rig should have one.

Anatidaephobia

I'm a bit confused now. Am I right in saying that there is negligible difference in speeds between the 2400 and 2500k when the 2500k isn't overclocked? And if I decided on the 2400 could I downgrade the mobo more?
I'm not sure on overclocking. I do enjoy gaming, but my attitude is more casual in nature. I'd like to be able to play games on reasonably high settings, but I don't need top of the range. I've heard numerous people say how easy it is the OC the 2500k, but how much of a difference would it make?

Solitaire

Yup, not a big difference in power between them at stock. And with OCing out of the picture you only need a H61 mobo, which can be had for less than €60.

You have roughly €600 for the PC minus the cost of mouse and keyboard, as the OS and monitor will take a good ~€200 from the budget. Add delivery and you've only really got €500-550. Unless you want to do some hardcore CPU-heavy tasks other than gaming the i5-2400+H61 is the best choice for a sub-€600 gaming PC as such a PC will likely be limited to a HD6870 or similar for graphics anyway. In 99% of games the HD6870 will bottleneck the i5-2400, not the other way around. You'd really need a HD6950 or better to even attempt to tax any i5-2500k faster than stock, and the combination price jump of 2500k + Z68 + HD6950 pushes such a gaming PC into a higher price band.

Anatidaephobia

Thanks, you both have been very helpful.

How's this for a final build? Hopefully I haven't forgotten anything important...


Intel Core i5-2400 - €153.36
Xigmatek Asgard II Midi Tower - black/black, ohne Netzteil - €32.50
Spinpoint F3 1000gb - €45.14
8gb G.Skill RAM - €33.65
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA - €16.52
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W - €52.46
ASUS EAH6870 DC/2DI2S/1GD5, AMD Radeon HD 6870, 1GB, PCI- Express - €142.81
BenQ G2220HD - €110.15
MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SB-Version Englisch - €82.84
DIGITUS® Wireless 150N PCI Adapter €16.09 <-- Would something like that be grand for a Wireless Card?
MSI H61M-E33 (B3), Intel H61, mATX, DDR3 - €53.03 Is that a reasonable motherboard?
Gigabyte GM-M6880 Laser Gaming Maus - €10.19
Plantronics Headset GameCom 367 - €22.63
€738.55


Does anyone have any recommendations for a cheap and cheerful mouse, keyboard and an alright headphones with mic?(Decided against speakers). I just never stop with the questions
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=28499&agid=759 I saw that in another thread and although I know it's not a proper gaming mouse, I google translated a few German reviews and it seems to be great value for money.

Skerries

if you are on a tight budget these headphones get good reviews
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=35693&agid=264
don't buy a keyboard from HWVS as it will have the German layout
your mouse looks good but this looks a bit sturdier
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=45235&agid=759

Solitaire

Decent monitor, although there's lots of other good'uns. The cheapest Samsung (B2230H) has a HDMI input, while the next one up (P2250) is over €120 and has no HDMI, but it is the cheapest model to have 2ms GTG response times.

Anatidaephobia

Thanks Skerries, I think I'm going to use both of them.
Solitaire, I see that B2230H is only €6 more than the BenQ and the P2250 six more than that, so I have room to manoeuvre here. Which would you consider more important, the HDMI, or the response times?

freestyla

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

I'm a bit confused now. Am I right in saying that there is negligible difference in speeds between the 2400 and 2500k when the 2500k isn't overclocked? And if I decided on the 2400 could I downgrade the mobo more?

yes and yes.

...people say how easy it is the OC the 2500k, but how much of a difference would it make?

A lot BUT you need quality mobo + big CPU cooler = 200eur = expensive.

e.g. I went for "bang for a buck" mobo here and disappointed in it what comes to pushing over 4GHz.

Anyway, I would go for 2500k over 2400. Only 20eur difference and K could be useful in the future you upgrading other components around it don't have to question CPU performance + K has higher reselling value than non-K for sure.

Tea_Bag

Skerries wrote: »

if you are on a tight budget these headphones get good reviews
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=35693&agid=264
don't buy a keyboard from HWVS as it will have the German layout
your mouse looks good but this looks a bit sturdier
http://www1.hardwareversand.de/articledetail.jsp?aid=45235&agid=759

i have those headphones and was pleasantly surprised with them. bit tight around my ears but im sure itll loosen with time. not actually used them much yet besides skype and a bit of gaming so will do more breaking in later.

Anatidaephobia

All right, so I think this is, finally, the final build. :P
Before I order, can I have a confirmation that everything works together?

Intel Core i5-2400 - €153.36
Xigmatek Asgard II Midi Tower - black/black, ohne Netzteil - €32.50
Spinpoint F3 1000gb - €45.14
8gb G.Skill RAM - €33.65
Samsung SH-222AB bare schwarz SATA - €16.52
Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W - €52.46
ASUS EAH6870 DC/2DI2S/1GD5, AMD Radeon HD 6870, 1GB, PCI- Express - €142.81
Samsung SyncMaster B2230H - €116.27
MS Windows 7 Home Premium 64bit SB-Version Englisch - €82.84
DIGITUS® Wireless 150N PCI Adapter €16.09
MSI H61M-E33 (B3), Intel H61, mATX, DDR3 - €53.03
Gigabyte GM-M6880 Laser Gaming Maus - €10.19
Plantronics Headset GameCom 367 - €22.63
€744.67

Anatidaephobia

Right guys, sorry to double post, but I haven't got around to ordering yet and I have yet more questions.

I know a few of the links I posted are gone now, but ignore that, I'll find something else when I order. First of all, I'm still not quite sure on the monitor. Is the B2230H good enough, or should I forsake the HDMI port and go with the P2250?

Next, I saw this on Bargain Alerts and it piqued my curiosity as I was bound to buy DXHR anyway: http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-143-OK&utm_source=newsletterCONFIG&utm_medium=email

In terms of actual price it's cheaper than the HWVS alternative with out the game, but I'm unsure of postage. Would it work out cheaper in the long run including postage to buy from Overclockers.net?

Oh and one last (stupid) question. All the power cables will work on irish sockets, right?

Anatidaephobia

Triple post FTW! :P
I know I'm probably being annoying by now, but that graphics card deal is ending tomorrow, I'm wondering if I should buy one.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=GX-252-SP

There's another one for a few more pounds that comes with Dirt 3.

Solitaire

Its up to you but bear in mind the added cost of the second load of shipping (as you'd be ordering from two sites)

Anatidaephobia

I really should have made this post months ago, but I forgot. :

I finally ordered in October, with a slightly revised build, and I'd like to thank you guys for all the help. Seriously, you should get paid. :P

Just in case anyone's interested, here's what I ordered in the end:
-8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9
-ASRock Z68 Pro3 (B3), Sockel 1155, ATX
-Bitfenix Shinobi
-Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155
-Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB
-Samsung SyncMaster B2230H
-Sapphire HD6870 1G GDDR5
-Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W

ShadowHearth

Anatidaephobia wrote: »

I really should have made this post months ago, but I forgot. :

I finally ordered in October, with a slightly revised build, and I'd like to thank you guys for all the help. Seriously, you should get paid. :P

Just in case anyone's interested, here's what I ordered in the end:
-8GB-Kit G.Skill PC3-10667U CL9
-ASRock Z68 Pro3 (B3), Sockel 1155, ATX
-Bitfenix Shinobi
-Intel Core i5-2500K Box, LGA1155
-Samsung SpinPoint F3 1000GB
-Samsung SyncMaster B2230H
-Sapphire HD6870 1G GDDR5
-Super-Flower Amazon 80Plus 550W

good lad. lets hope it works well for ya!