Tonight With Vincent Browne Thread v2.0

Plautus

has it ever occured to you ( or vincent ) that its not for the craic , the majority of people are very wary about travellers , i think brownes trenchant , blinkered views on travellers are at best deluded and at worst dangerous , its browne who needs a reality check on this issue , he does nothing to help the travelling community by constantly telling them that its the big bad settled community who are racist and need to adapt to traveller culture

Vincent never suggested that you have to accept criminality as 'traveller culture'. Can you point out where he did?

i dont remember anyone saying each and every single traveller is up to no good

Well, er, you did. What his programme did draw out was the blinkered views after your own that all of a group can be judged a 'criminal sub-class', and insulted. You better have a better basis for saying so than half-recollected statistics.

It doesn't even occur to you that the stigma that attaches to simply being a traveller prevents some people from revealing their traveller roots.

This stuff is no different to the rationale of a Londoner in the 1950s and 1960s whose only contact with Irish people was in the revelry of Soho. 'Drunken paddies' or 'layabouts' were easy conclusions, but scarcely fair.

fatalll

Wow..now Vincent is saying what i thought...she is a spoofer

irishh_bob

MungBean wrote: »

He was discussing the extremely poor conditions that some of the members of that community were living in. Your so blinded by your prejudice that you ignore the actual point of the program and argue a strawman just to have something to rant about.

Face it your a bigot and little else.

see above for my point about silencing debate

bonos place in kiliney would look like a kip if he kept a dozen horses outside his front door , three clapped out nissans and used his front lawn as a jaxx

Lady Chatterton

fatalll wrote: »

I agree some people need it yes, its hard to allow for those situations though.
You will always be hitting the most vulnerable unfortunately.

But personally i think a little bit of everything should be cut.

When you are paying €700 per month per child for Childcare, believe me, you need the Children's Allowance.

woodoo

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Means testing in this country is expensive and time consuming. There has to be a more efficient way.

There is a large office in Dublin now that deals with all medical card applications for the country. They have about 160 staff. All under the one roof. They could easily take on the means testing for children's allowance.

SEPT 23 1989

irishh_bob wrote: »

discrimination and bigotry are not the same thing and the likes of browne uses the word bigotry to silence debate on the issue of anti social behaviour within the travelling community , silencing debate on sacred cows is a key pc liberal trait

i dont remember anyone saying each and every single traveller is up to no good but the reality is that thier is a hugely disproportionate level of criminality within the travelling community , something like 12% of travellers are in prison and nearly ninety percent of travellers are unemployed , i seriously doubt that even a place like sherriff street have figures comparable to those

How many travellers make income tax or VAT returns?

i will take guess 0

Bullseye1

That's the problem €700 a month for child care is madness. They need to bring prices down.

irishh_bob

Plautus wrote: »

Vincent never suggested that you have to accept criminality as 'traveller culture'. Can you point out where he did?



Well, er, you did. What his programme did draw out was the blinkered views after your own that all of a group can be judged a 'criminal sub-class', and insulted.

It doesn't even occur to you that the stigma that attaches to simply being a traveller prevents some people from revealing their traveller roots.

This stuff is no different to the rationale of a Londoner in the 1950s and 1960s whose only contact with Irish people was in the revelry of Soho. 'Drunken paddies' or 'layabouts' were easy conclusions, but scarcely fair.

irish people faced prejudice in london back a few decades ago but 90% of them were not unemployed and 12% of them were not in prison , you can say la la la la la all you want but this pet project of vincent brownes is inherently dysfunctional as it presently stands , it is a culture which has been indulged for far too long , i for one am sick of them living off my dime

fatalll

MrsD007 wrote: »

When you are paying €700 per month per child for Childcare, believe me, you need the Children's Allowance.

Possibly, but then you have to ask yourself are you working to just pay someone to babysit your kids?
Im not saying people should not be working but there are a lot of children who dont see their parents and they arfe basically working to pay to travel to work and get their kids looked after, when in facet their kids would maybe better off if they were at home...

Im not saying this is rtight or wrong... just a thought

maamom

Dont like her one bit but would love to shove this in vincent brownes face!

http://www.wsm.ie/c/1-population-34-wealth

hotmail.com

JonathanAnon wrote: »

It's about time Vincent did a show covering the real Travellers issues.. You'll notice than none of the Traveller men of working age appeared in front of the camera last night... They push the women and children in front of the camera to evoke sympathy from the public... Why didnt Vincent interview the Traveller men and ask them why didnt THEY clean up the site (instead of complaining about the council).. Vincent should realise that 80% of Irish people are not racist, but 80% of the people of Ireland are sick of indulging the Travelling community.

So angry? Why do you care?

One of the reasons Travellers remain outside of the settled society is because of the prejudice they face when they do try to enter it. Your opinion just doesn't help.

And there was a man interviewed on the programme.

irishh_bob

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

How many travellers make income tax or VAT returns?

i will take guess 0

against thier culture

SEPT 23 1989

Plautus wrote: »

Vincent never suggested that you have to accept criminality as 'traveller culture'. Can you point out where he did?



Well, er, you did. What his programme did draw out was the blinkered views after your own that all of a group can be judged a 'criminal sub-class', and insulted. You better have a better basis for saying so than half-recollected statistics.

It doesn't even occur to you that the stigma that attaches to simply being a traveller prevents some people from revealing their traveller roots.

This stuff is no different to the rationale of a Londoner in the 1950s and 1960s whose only contact with Irish people was in the revelry of Soho. 'Drunken paddies' or 'layabouts' were easy conclusions, but scarcely fair.

How close do you live to a halting site and how often do you deal directly with members of this community?

Plautus

irishh_bob wrote: »

irish people faced prejudice in london back a few decades ago but 90% of them were not unemployed and 12% of them were not in prison , you can say la la la la la all you want but this pet project of vincent brownes is inherently dysfunctional as it presently stands , it is a culture which has been indulged for far too long , i for one am sick of them living off my dime

Alright, so where did you find these statistics, is my next question. Londoners could have pointed, in their own time, to anecdotal evidence about as strong as yours for evidence of Irish rowdiness, laziness and drunken disorder. Or even police statistics.

How close do you live to a halting site and how often do you deal directly with members of this community?

No doubt, some halting sites are inhabited by families which create problems for their locality or who engage in criminal behaviour. This still doesn't get me to a conclusion like 'tinkers are good for nothing.'

fatalll

Bullseye1 wrote: »

That's the problem €700 a month for child care is madness. They need to bring prices down.

I agree with u on the price is ridicolous...
The price for everything in this country is ridicolous... and peole are earning far less that they were 3 years ago or more..

Government need to look at this....and not by decreasing VAT..that has never worked as they founf out the last time it was done

irishh_bob

hotmail.com wrote: »

So angry? Why do you care?

One of the reasons Travellers remain outside of the settled society is because of the prejudice they face when they do try to enter it. Your opinion just doesn't help.

And there was a man interviewed on the programme.

you tend to get knocked back when your cousin robbed your elderly uncle up the road and ripped off your brother with a shabby tarmacadam job , reputations are earned , good and bad , cause and effect

Skid

Share it with the class, Barry

take everything

Matt Cooper is always impressive.

JonathanAnon

Clare Daly was embarrassing last night on Prime Time and she's embarrassing again tonight... None of the left have a legitimate solution to our Exchequer deficit.. because the serious solutions i.e. reducing public sector wages to 2000 levels, getting rid of the dead wood in the public sector, reducing dole and benefits to 2000 levels ....

fatalll

what the hell is Barry Cowen at....
making a speech for tomorrow..
wow

Lady Chatterton

fatalll wrote: »

Possibly, but then you have to ask yourself are you working to just pay someone to babysit your kids?
Im not saying people should not be working but there are a lot of children who dont see their parents and they arfe basically working to pay to travel to work and get their kids looked after, when in facet their kids would maybe better off if they were at home...

Im not saying this is rtight or wrong... just a thought

Social Welfare isn't going to pay the mortgage though.

fatalll

JonathanAnon wrote: »

Clare Daly was embarrassing last night on Prime Time and she's embarrassing again tonight... None of the left have a legitimate solution to our Exchequer deficit.. because the serious solutions i.e. reducing public sector wages to 2000 levels, getting rid of the dead wood in the public sector, reducing dole and benefits to 2000 levels ....

I agree 100%

SEPT 23 1989

hotmail.com wrote: »

So angry? Why do you care?

One of the reasons Travellers remain outside of the settled society is because of the prejudice they face when they do try to enter it. Your opinion just doesn't help.

And there was a man interviewed on the programme.

it bloody suits them to do so

Patrick2010

Maybe the travellers who made money from Dunsink over the years could chip in some of the millions they got from Fingal into putting in an electricity supply, running water, hiring a skip and cleaning up the place?

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/councils-dismiss-fears-of-new-land-grab-by-squatters-1073203.html

Councils dismiss fears of new land grab by squatters



Thursday September 06 2007

DUBLIN local authorities have insisted they do not face a problem with people securing squatters' rights on publicly-owned land.

Yesterday it emerged that Fingal County Council had paid out almost €2m to Travellers to vacate lands on Dunsink Lane in Finglas they have lived on for over a dozen years.

The most recent settlements, confirmed by the council yesterday, involved three families who received a total of €850,000 to leave the area.

It follows another settlement of €1.1m made earlier this year to traveller David Joyce, who agreed to leave land he had squatted on in the north Dublin suburb.

People living on a 42-acre site are being paid to leave the area so a massive public park can be built in the north of the city.

Fingal County Council issued compulsory purchase orders compelling people to sell up three years ago, and the council now has possession of most of the 42-acres it is seeking to acquire.

Most people had lived in the area since Dunsink was a landfill, and up to 50 families have been served with a CPO ordering them to sell their property back to the council.

However, many of the occupants are in family groups, and the council has been settling claims on that basis.

There had been "some duplication'' of claims, and it was not possible to ascertain how many valid claims were made or how much it would eventually cost. Some claims have yet to be settled, and legal action has been taken by families who do not wish to move.

"Correspondence has been received from a number of families claiming possessory title to plots of the lands within the CPO area," a spokesperson said yesterday.

"While the examination of these claims has not been completed, there does appear to be significant duplication of claims. Therefore, it is not possible at this stage to accurately estimate the number of claims that have been made.

"Some families remain in the area subject to the CPO. As there are also a number of other settlements along Dunsink Lane, including both illegal and authorised camps, some Traveller accommodation and some local authority housing, it is difficult therefore to estimate the total number of families living in that area."

Yesterday, County Manager David O'Connor said it was hoped to construct a public park of up to 200-acres in an area stretching from the Navan Road to Dunsink Lane and bordered by the M50 motorway once the process was complete.

The council must also "make safe" the site of the Dunsink dump, which could take some time.

"We feel it has the opportunity to be reinvented as an amenity for the entire Dublin 15 and Finglas area," he said.

"Sports such as gaelic football, soccer and rugby will be accommodated in Abbotstown and less mainstream sports such as mountain biking could be catered for.

"Here we can make the landscape anything we want. We have Dunsink Observatory, and could create an amphitheatre so that people could look at the stars.

It is also possible to use certain types of planting to take the poison out of the ground, and we have started some of these strategies already."

The other Dublin local authorities stated that they found they did not have problems with people claiming squatters' rights on lands owned by the council, and did not expect claims seeking "adverse possession" to be made.

hotmail.com

irishh_bob wrote: »

you tend to get knocked back when your cousin robbed your elderly uncle up the road and ripped off your brother with a shabby tarmacadam job , reputations are earned , good and bad , cause and effect

Having a bad experience with a traveller doesn't justify a prejudicial attitude towards every traveller.

Then you slip into into the racism territory.

fatalll

MrsD007 wrote: »

Social Welfare isn't going to pay the mortgage though.

True, Cant disagree.
Its not easy is it!! :-)

Oh_Noes

Should be interesting to see what impact these proposed rent supplement cuts will have on the whole mortgage relief/forgiveness ideas that have been floating around. I've seen so much movement in my area in terms of couples moving in with parents and renting out their new properties, people downsizing and trying to rent intended homes.

The irony is probably that these rent supplements are keeping a good lump of the zombie mortgages plodding along. Surely the two departments could collaborate a bit more in terms of tackling the area of property and accommodation. Instead they're ring fencing these things into categories which will never overlap in terms of policy but in the real world hugely influence each other.

woodoo

hotmail.com wrote: »

Having a bad experience with a traveller doesn't justify a prejudicial attitude towards every traveller.

Then you slip into into the racism territory.

Sometimes people like to play it safe. Once bitten twice shy.

JonathanAnon

You have to laugh at Vincent, getting Matt to read out Barry Cowan's notes... He can be really funny sometimes....

LOVE to know what that Ian Bailey story is... It must be something that Bailey thinks will clear him?

Happyman42

JonathanAnon wrote: »

LOVE to know what that Ian Bailey story is... It must be something that Bailey thinks will clear him?

Or he's throwing in the towel?