Tonight With Vincent Browne Thread v2.0

Plautus

RayM wrote: »

McGuirk?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9R89oERKCaU

Did anyone see Vincent introducing him as a member of the 'National Front'?

RayM

Plautus wrote: »

Did anyone see Vincent introducing him as a member of the 'National Front'?

Probably just about the only organisation he hasn't been a member of.

hotmail.com

Waffler - course he'll pay it.

Plautus

hotmail.com wrote: »

I do know people like this guy talking and they just believe in all sorts of conspiracy theories and all sorts of things about the EU, the banks etc. When you press them, like VB is, you often find out that they know very little.

It's worrying alright. I spoke to a guy once who told me to watch a load of youtube documentaries about how the Rothschilds and Rockerfellers 'control it all'. Had to play it diplomatic and edge away nodding and smiling ...

steelcityblues

Plautus wrote: »

It's worrying alright. I spoke to a guy once who told me to watch a load of youtube documentaries about how the Rothschilds and Rockerfellers 'control it all'. Had to play it diplomatic and edge away nodding and smiling ...

Your first mistake is automatically assuming he's wrong.

Plautus

steelcityblues wrote: »

Your first mistake is automatically assuming he's wrong.

Banging on about the Rothschilds is straight out of the anti-Semitic 'high finance' playbook, for feck's sake.

I'm rather fond of the burden of proof too. I'd love to know how a family of 19th century financiers have infiltrated the IMF, the ECB, the European Banks, the Central Banks ... people who trot this out seem to have more than a passing fancy for storylines that could have come from Deus Ex!

steelcityblues

Plautus wrote: »

Banging on about the Rothschilds is straight out of the anti-Semitic 'high finance' playbook, for feck's sake.

Ah, that classic term. Because every Jewish person on the planet is a good person, who causes no harm.

ascanbe

JonathanAnon wrote: »

To all the people on the left... We can only tell the IMF/EU/ECB to fk off when we dont need the money they are lending us... To do this we need to get fiscal parity (i.e. cut welfare, benefits, rent allowance, public sector numbers, public sector wages) ... rip up that damned Croke Park Agreement..

So unless you're prepared to do the above, STFU about Anglo Bondholders...

The reason we required the 'bail-out' in the first place is because of the bank-guarantee; and there's good reason to believe that those who made this decision, a decision never put to the people, were rail-roaded into it by the EU/ECB in order to ensure that the citizens of this country would foot the bill for the bad lending practices of European banks.
Without this noose placed around our neck we would be able to stream-line our public-service/cut public spending while still borrowing from the markets.
At the moment we are cutting public spending and raising taxes in order to service this debt that we have no responsibility for.
This is not only affecting the public-service but also destroying the private-sector, as the money we are suppossedly 'saving' in cutting spending/raising taxes is, in fact, leaving the country, in order to bail-out these banks, resulting in the evaporation of disposable spending power in the country.
Hence, we have an economy caught in a vicious downward-spiral.
Simple recourse to the old trope of bashing the 'left-wing' is missing the point.

Plautus

steelcityblues wrote: »

Ah, that classic term. Because every Jewish person on the planet is a good person, who causes no harm.

No ... it's just you have to appreciate the vintage of these arguments and who used to make them (and the likes of David Icke who continue to do so.) Would love to hear the substantive basis for it all.

steelcityblues

Plautus wrote: »

No ... it's just you have to appreciate the vintage of these arguments and who used to make them (and the likes of David Icke who continue to do so.) Would love to hear the substantive basis for it all.

If I criticised Denis O'Brien or Tony O'Reilly's level of power, am I anti-Catholic?

JonathanAnon

My god those X Factor stories REALLY annoy me... Do they think we are all completely stupid and give any credence to their blatantly orchestrated stories...

hotmail.com

steelcityblues wrote: »

Your first mistake is automatically assuming he's wrong.

They seem to accept everything related to the conspiracy story. They take it as fact. Yet they don't take what the government say as fact.

I'm sceptical of both sides.

steelcityblues

hotmail.com wrote: »

They seem to accept everything related to the conspiracy story. They take it as fact. Yet they don't take what the government say as fact.

I'm sceptical of both sides.

TBH, any sensible person at this stage, would not.

'Yes for jobs', 'turning the corner', and much more.

Plautus

steelcityblues wrote: »

If I criticised Denis O'Brien or Tony O'Reilly's level of power, am I anti-Catholic?

No There's a historical background to some of this 'high finance' stuff though in that it generally emanated from vote-getting right-wing parties. I'm just appreciative of that context and retain a ... strong scepticism of folk who recite 'The Bilderberg Group, The Trilateral Commission, The Rockerfellers' like a set of incantations that are meant to be an argument in and of themselves.

It's the little matter of the evidence.

hotmail.com

steelcityblues wrote: »

TBH, any sensible person at this stage, would not.

'Yes for jobs', 'turning the corner', and much more.

I agree, but the conspiracy theorists make up stuff too.

steelcityblues

hotmail.com wrote: »

I agree, but the conspiracy theorists make up stuff too.

I don't agree with lizards or UFOs plotting against us, but serious matters related to the financial control of the world are unfortunately put in the same bucket by a lot of people.

Even this stuff has to be moved to the CT section of boards. When will more people cop on?

Plautus

steelcityblues wrote: »

I don't agree with lizards or UFOs plotting against us, but serious matters related to the financial control of the world are unfortunately put in the same bucket by a lot of people.

Even this stuff has to be moved to the CT section of boards. When will more people cop on?

I wouldn't disagree that it's reasonable to posit a transnational capitalist class of the likes of George Soros, I'm just suggesting it's multi-variate and doesn't have the monolithic qualities of the Freemasons.

ascanbe

Plautus wrote: »

No There's a historical background to some of this 'high finance' stuff though in that it generally emanated from vote-getting right-wing parties. I'm just appreciative of that context and retain a ... strong scepticism of folk who recite 'The Bilderberg Group, The Trilateral Commission, The Rockerfellers' like a set of incantations that are meant to be an argument in and of themselves.

It's the little matter of the evidence.

So, as a matter of interest, do you automatically assume, despite your not having evidence of this, that anyone who opines that the banking industry has huge power over political decision-making, or anyone who even looks into the possiblity of this being so, must, by extension, be anti-semetic?

Skid

Plautus wrote: »

No ... it's just you have to appreciate the vintage of these arguments and who used to make them (and the likes of David Icke who continue to do so.) Would love to hear the substantive basis for it all.

That's not really a good enough reason to dismiss a theory, though.

You don't judge an argument by who are the biggest nutjobs who support it.

I know nothing about the Rothschilds theory, but If i was sufficently interested, I would judge it on it's merits, not by who has already judged it.

Plautus

ascanbe wrote: »

So, as a matter of interest, do you automatically assume, despite your not having evidence of this, that anyone who opines that the banking industry has huge power over political decision-making, or anyone who even looks into the possiblity of this being so, must, by extension, be anti-semetic?

It's one thing to suggest a nexus between financiers and politicians. It's quite another thing to suggest that the entire global financial system is wrapped up in a bundle, in thrall to a single family or small number of families who are like a cabal of string-pulling vampires!

I don't assume anything about anyone, but I know where I've predominately heard the argument from, and why those people make such arguments, and that gives me reason to be sceptical of the argument. It's just it's no coincidence in 19th century Europe that Jews like the Rotschilds, who were financiers to a number of powerful European courts, were the subject of 'Jewish conspiracy' accusations.

@Skid, at a certain point you can't suspend your critical faculties and forget who has been apt to make the argument historically. I throw it into the mix when I'm deciding whether or not to take an argument seriously - if I also saw some convincing evidence I'm perfectly open to changing my mind. The ball's not in my court on this one.

Harry Angstrom

For anyone who thinks that it's all a vast Jewish conspiracy, this book is well worth the read:

ascanbe

Plautus wrote: »

It's one thing to suggest a nexus between financiers and politicians. It's quite another thing to suggest that the entire global financial system is wrapped up in a bundle, in thrall to a single family or small number of families who are like a cabal of string-pulling vampires!

I don't assume anything about anyone, but I know where I've predominately heard the argument from, and why those people make such arguments, and that gives me reason to be sceptical of the argument. It's just it's no coincidence in 19th century Europe that Jews like the Rotschilds, who were financiers to a number of powerful European courts, were the subject of 'Jewish conspiracy' accusations.

@Skid, at a certain point you can't suspend your critical faculties and forget who has been apt to make the argument historically. I throw it into the mix when I'm deciding whether or not to take an argument seriously - if I also saw some convincing evidence I'm perfectly open to changing my mind. The ball's not in my court on this one.

So you don't require evidence in order to invoke that slur.
I just ask, as you italicised the word 'evidence' in the post that i originally replied to, which would seem to suggest that you put a premium on it/regard it as a pre-requisite to making a legitimate point.

Plautus

ascanbe wrote: »

So you don't require evidence in order to invoke that slur.
I just ask, as you italicised the word 'evidence' in the post that i originally replied to, which would seem to suggest that you put a premium on it/regard it as a pre-requisite to making a legitimate point.

You're misunderstanding me. Historically, the occupations of Jews in medieval Europe centred on things like the diamond and fabric trades and banking due to usury laws. Resentment of apparently wealthy Jewish people can be traced right through the 19th and 20th century and political campaigns such as this one:

http://psyop-posters.blogspot.com/2009/10/tod-der-luge-marxismus-hochfinanz.html

That argument is a long-rehearsed one, and no one in this thread has actually come out and said 'The Rotschilds and the Jews control it all' so I'm not casting slurs on anyone I can see. Robust enquiry on the connections between finance and political decisions isn't anti-semitic at all. I didn't say so. I'm commenting on a narrow band of conspiracy theories.

Evidence is important, yes. People who do say that the Rotschilds control it all ought to show, not tell me.

ascanbe

Plautus wrote: »

You're misunderstanding me. Historically, the occupations of Jews in medieval Europe centred on things like the diamond and fabric trades and banking due to usury laws. Resentment of apparently wealthy Jewish people can be traced right through the 19th and 20th century and political campaigns such as this one:

http://psyop-posters.blogspot.com/2009/10/tod-der-luge-marxismus-hochfinanz.html

That argument is a long-rehearsed one, and no one in this thread has actually come out and said 'The Rotschilds and the Jews control it all' so I'm not casting slurs on anyone I can see. Robust enquiry on the connections between finance and political decisions isn't anti-semitic at all. I didn't say so. I'm commenting on a narrow band of conspiracy theories.

Evidence is important, yes. People who do say that the Rotschilds control it all ought to show, not tell me.

I'm not suggesting that you directly accused anyone here of anti-semitism; but you seemed to imply, in replying to another poster, that this was a possible motivation for their view-point on the basis of your belief that others, who you see as sharing a similar view-point on an entirely justifiable area of enquiry, may have been motivated by this.
That's a bit cheap, in my opinion.
That's all i'm taking issue with.

Plautus

ascanbe wrote: »

I'm not suggesting that you directly accused anyone here of anti-semitism; but you seemed to imply, in replying to another poster, that this was a possible motivation for their view-point on the basis of your belief that others, who you see as sharing a similar view-point, may have been motivated by this.
That's all i'm taking issue with.

And I would stand by saying that you have a distinct possibility of having been taken in by a theory espoused (and in large concocted) by anti-semites if you specifically believe the Rotschild Family riddle the current European financial system. I agree, you could perfectly well not be anti-semitic.

I'm not afraid of saying there is a financial elite and that they number not a whole lot of people in proportion to the world population. The dynamic of how they operate is not clear to me, or at least not clear enough to be able to so confidently say 'Yes, these five families control global finance.' Or whatever variant thereof.

ascanbe

Plautus wrote: »

And I would stand by saying that you have a distinct possibility of having been taken in by a theory espoused (and in large concocted) by anti-semites if you specifically believe the Rotschild Family riddle the current European financial system. I agree, you could perfectly well not be anti-semitic.

I'm not afraid of saying there is a financial elite and that they number not a whole lot of people in proportion to the world population. The dynamic of how they operate is not clear to me, or at least not clear enough to be able to so confidently say 'Yes, these five families control global finance.' Or whatever variant thereof.

Fair enough.
Simply responded as i feel that that slur is often thrown around too liberally in order to dismiss people/silence debate.
Realise now that that wasn't your intention.

Plautus

ascanbe wrote: »

Fair enough.
Simply responded as i feel that that slur is often thrown around too liberally in order to dismiss people/silence debate.
Realise now that that wasn't your intention.

Thanks, I didn't mean to offend!

stackerman

JonathanAnon wrote: »

That woman should have read a few books while she was down there.... Did she think that we had a budget surplus before the bailout?

You're completely missing the point, that woman was not suggesting the above. The problem we all now have it the unsustainable debt which has been FORCED upon us as a country. The EU try to make out that they bailed US out, and in so doing have given certain conditions (our oil and gas one of them by the looks of it). They only tried to bail out their own Banks, who were in hock to ours (All greedy feckers). Do you think the UK gave us a loan (yes a loan, with interest), which they are making out to be a bloody gift, as good neighbours ?
The banking system we in the western world have is a debt based system which is now unsustainable. The value of the US $ is going up, because people are in a panic over the €' s long term value. But the $ is worse than the euro ! It's the last place I'd put my money. The Pound, the Yen etc etc are not much better. Credit default swaps, MF Global, QE 1,2 .....
Western banks have just been printing money (out of fresh air) and fuelling a debt based system, which has now gone beyond the point of no return. Is this the time to give the last of the family jewels away ?? And on the cheap ?? I think NOT.

stackerman

I respect these people, they are trying to articulate the complete dissatisfaction the people have with the current bailouts and the system in general. Are any of you happy with the state of play ? Do you think the party's offered to us at the moment have the answers ? Are you happy with the Banking system we have ? We can't spend for fear of what lies ahead, and we can't save because low interest rates will just eat the value away, never mind the Euro crisis and inflation.
I don't believe the Occupy movement is a Left movement, if so, where are the Unions ? They've been told to stay away. They may not be the most eloquent bunch, but put yourself in front of a camera, and I'd think you'd find yourself to be less eloquent that normal.
Instead of being disrespectful, give us some solutions

Rant over

constitutionus

TBH i got one sight of vinny at the camp and turned off.

i wont slag off the protesters, but i dont want to watch a whole fecking program on em and it had formulaec vinny stamped all over it.

i always tend to find these types of programs he does a channel turner.