It's PanDENmonium! [Off Topic Chat]

bluejay14

I still call it Network 2. So do the rest of the family.

My claim to fame is being on The Den's birthday thing when I was 5 or 6.

wnolan1992

bluejaymraz wrote: »

I still call it Network 2. So do the rest of the family.

My claim to fame is being on The Den's birthday thing when I was 5 or 6.

I once got a shout out on the Den because I had chicken pox. :P

Christ, it's sad that I remember that...

bluejay14

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I once got a shout out on the Den because I had chicken pox. :P

Christ, it's sad that I remember that...

And I thought I was the only famous one around here....

iamanengine

Oooooh look at all the celebrities, I better start wearing my fancy hat around here to fit in

Palytoxin

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

I kinda see where you're coming from in your first sentence, but I have difficulty with it. It would seem ridiculous to say that killing a person is a better option than letting them eventually develop a disease and dying slowly, so I'm not sure how we could allow it in animals. I said 'death' but I meant premature death, y'know what I mean! :P Yeah I dunno how I feel about animals in human care. Animals that aren't exploited are probably fine mostly? Having pets seems grand to me (even though there are vegans who are opposed to it). I wouldn't say farm animals are treated like pets, though. Now, I'd agree that much of the time most cows are treated grand in Ireland, and spend most of their time doing what they'd always do anyway, but there are lots of times when they aren't, and that's inevitable in farming, so I think that might make it unacceptable overall. Pigs aren't treated well, and large poultry farms are awful (I've only been on one to be fair, and it was free range). Animals do well in human care, but I don't know if farming counts as 'care'. Bad things happen, and they don't have to happen for me to eat or drink or be healthy or happy, so why should they!

So your issue there is with the premature death?, humane killing before the old-age suffering begins is what you have the problem with? Not trying to twist this into some sort of emotional and ethical battle, but ultimately their death is going to be determined by us, same as putting down a pet, etc. There is however a difference between farming and pets, determined by economics of course. But you're also saying that there may be some cases of unacceptable treatment, while it is obviously the case that mistreatment could occur everywhere- farms, pets, zoos, even human mistreatment. I will defend to the hilt that farming counts as care, the number of negligent farmers is small enough I'd imagine you'd find.

As it turns out, I am aware that cows don't roam wild. But the fact that don't roam wild can't be used to justify using cows n' stuff?? You said to Lawliet "As regards using animals at all, that's the way the world works I'm afraid, they'd surely be extinct anyway if they weren't used in farming". I'm saying that their hypothetical extinction has nothing to do with using them and abusing them (at times), other than maybe saying that 'the only reason they were born is to be farmed', and, again, that doesn't justify using them. By the way "That's the way the world works" could be used to qualify anything at all as acceptable??

I'd appreciate less of your condescension if you don't mind! Your only argument seems to be that in some cases there is mistreatment of the animals, which is obviously going to be the case, and this is indeed the case in every aspect of society, abuse of power to the detriment of others.

Perhaps there might have been a minor amount of sensationalism, a little bit, maybe, I guess...! But don't say I didn't warn you with an "emotive-words-for-the-lolz alert" :P I dunno if considering it 'employment' is any more reasonable than considering it slavery, though? I spent my childhood farming, so I'm familiar with animal breeding. Saying that bulls would rape them anyway doesn't mean we can. Now! I said 'Rape', which is a strong word, and AI is not a totally horrific an experience, but technically it is rape. The pregnancy following it is the ordeal that I really have difficulty with. OH also castration is a horrible thing to witness

Being a vegetarian (and sometimes feeling like going vegan) for me is kind of about extending my behaviour towards people, to other animals. If something's unacceptable towards people, it's probably unacceptable towards animals too, as far as I can see.

The connotations of the word slavery are inappropriate to what actually happens on farms, and I resent the use of that particular word towards it. You might see it as slavery, but we'll have to agree to disagree there. As regards the bulls vs AI, if they are not put in calf they will be culled, there's no two ways about it. Maybe the "rape" of AI would be considered preferable to death. Pregnancy shouldn't be considered an ordeal, it's a perfectly natural process? Castration is a simple procedure, lasting several seconds at most, probably causes a certain degree of pain in fairness, but reduces the danger of the animals to humans, and prevents unwanted pregnancies.

As regards the human vs animal point, it's not really appropriate to compare us, it has to be admitted that we are vastly more advanced in relation to cognitive function, emotional experiences and general thought and feeling. The physical treatment is the only area where they are similar, in responsiveness to pain, and that's where appropriate treatment of the animals comes into it.

Yeah but I think we'd be fooling ourselves to accept the lives of all animals on farms as fulfilling and content.

Oh, and I don't know anything about the environmental stuff, but apparently veganism is good for that too!



Can we at least agree that battery farms are cruel and horrible, and we should never buy their eggs?!

How would their lives be more fulfilled or content? All animals are born to reproduce and continue their genes to the next generation, in dairy farming the cows are producing calves, milk, have a constant food supply, healthcare, shelter, what lengths would you extend their lives to in terms of things they may achieve?

It's not necessarily veganism that's good for the environment, but rather the way in which the food is produced- machinery involved, fuels used, packaging and all that jazz.

Battery farms are indeed horrible, but one would wonder just how much mental stimulation and variation a chicken would need, and what sort of cognitive levels they work on.

Palytoxin

Lawliet wrote: »

I'm the wrong person to answer that as I think the entire process is the problem, it's like asking where to put the band-aid on gangrenous limb.

A bit of rhetoric never hurt anyone!

suitcasepink

ahh ffs

Jhcx

Just woke up from a nightmare. I think my alarm woke me up just before I was about to be killed.... I don't know whether to be thankful lol

JamJamJamJam

@Paly, whispering so as not to annoy everyone else:
Sorry for the sarcasm, I got carried away :-P You seem to recognise certain things as acceptable: abuse of power, the fact that cows which aren't in calf will be culled, etc. because 'that's the way the world works', and I accept that this is the way things have worked up to now, but vegetarianism is an effort to change that, or at least to limit it. It's a boycott towards an industry that is considered unethical because of various reasons including, and not limited to certain cases of obvious animal abuse. To say that all animals exist just to reproduce makes all life really pointless. Humans (not a comparison, but an inclusion, here) are animals too, but those who choose not to reproduce or who are unable to are no less important than those who do reproduce. Animals don't just have a function or a task, like a tool. We are sentient, complex, three dimensional beings, and we (animals of all kinds) should be granted the freedoms to live our lives as we like (without harming others, of course). Reproduction is more incidental than an actual purpose in my view anyway.

I think a big difference / the main difference for us seems to be how we see animals compared to us. We are more advanced, but like I said a while back I think sometimes we tend to overestimate this, and treat animals like robots even though they do experience emotion and stuff. Cows, apparently, have best friends and miss them when they aren't there, which is kinda cool! Pigs are supposedly very intelligent, and pig farming can be awful! Chickens are probably a bit thick, in fairness, but I expect that they would be happier living without the cramped conditions and everything else. Like, having a pet chicken and eating those eggs doesn't seem like a very bad thing to me though... So yeah I'd still behave well towards a person without proper brain function, so I think we should do the same for animals. I dunno, maybe autonomy should be part of it, because animals can't give consent either.

PseudoFamous

wnolan1992 wrote: »

I once got a shout out on the Den because I had chicken pox. :P

Christ, it's sad that I remember that...

A guy I went to school with was one of the guest kids on the den... In sixth class. He was twice as old as everyone else. He still felt the need to compete. Hilariously cringey.

Davidius

Not to rain on this ostensibly intelligent discussion but all will be for naught once the singularity occurs and we are enslaved by our self-perpetuating emotionless creations.

iamanengine

Davidius wrote: »

Not to rain on this ostensibly intelligent discussion but all will be for naught once the singularity occurs and we are enslaved by our self-perpetuating emotionless creations.

I see you have already reached that stage :P

Palytoxin

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

@Paly, whispering so as not to annoy everyone else:

Sure that's their problem! They should change or introduce some other subject if they feel a need, we could do with more discussions in here!

Sorry for the sarcasm, I got carried away :-P You seem to recognise certain things as acceptable: abuse of power, the fact that cows which aren't in calf will be culled, etc. because 'that's the way the world works', and I accept that this is the way things have worked up to now, but vegetarianism is an effort to change that, or at least to limit it. It's a boycott towards an industry that is considered unethical because of various reasons including, and not limited to certain cases of obvious animal abuse. To say that all animals exist just to reproduce makes all life really pointless. Humans (not a comparison, but an inclusion, here) are animals too, but those who choose not to reproduce or who are unable to are no less important than those who do reproduce. Animals don't just have a function or a task, like a tool. We are sentient, complex, three dimensional beings, and we (animals of all kinds) should be granted the freedoms to live our lives as we like (without harming others, of course). Reproduction is more incidental than an actual purpose in my view anyway.

It's what's considered ethical by each individual that's the problem, we can both agree on that, as Lawliet mentioned earlier. But then there's no way that they'd ever be agreed on, whatever system that could be used to quantify it all, be it formal axiology or something, the result would never be accepted. I probably should have used survival or continuity, rather than reproduction, you get where I'm coming from with my view anyway, we're not all destined to be born and all that jazz.

I think a big difference / the main difference for us seems to be how we see animals compared to us. We are more advanced, but like I said a while back I think sometimes we tend to overestimate this, and treat animals like robots even though they do experience emotion and stuff. Cows, apparently, have best friends and miss them when they aren't there, which is kinda cool! Pigs are supposedly very intelligent, and pig farming can be awful! Chickens are probably a bit thick, in fairness, but I expect that they would be happier living without the cramped conditions and everything else. Like, having a pet chicken and eating those eggs doesn't seem like a very bad thing to me though... So yeah I'd still behave well towards a person without proper brain function, so I think we should do the same for animals. I dunno, maybe autonomy should be part of it, because animals can't give consent either.

It's not really feasible to treat animals the same way we treat humans, without communication we're essentially just working on appearance, so we can only do so much to make them comfortable with adequate treatment I suppose, (and by adequate I don't mean scraping the bottom of tolerable limits for them). Anyway you're probably sick of me now at this stage..

JamJamJamJam

I don't know what an axiology is! You win!!!

Jhcx

Anyone else notice how people have problems but their two different world's apart. rich people are liars and dishonest with hidden secrets and issues in their family but portray as if everything is Ok and it never happened. And the common person is open, torn and strong. Missing a mother or a father. Growing up with abuse living on the edge of always fighting . Maybe that's just the way it's told in the media nut it also looks that way to the naked eye. Like rappers are the best at what they do because they tell of a life story of pain and suffering and anger. When do you hear rich people cursing the crap out of their father or speaking the truth. But it's great at the end of the day we can all relate and understand because even though in different forms we understand that no family is perfect and it's just a matter of whether we're willing to face the truth and not hide behind the wall.

People may laugh but I was going to work and an add came on and ten a song it got me thing making I would love to save become top of my game a millionaire and buy/set up a charity organisation like childline and just have all the right things in place like a large call staff and the proper protection. It may be a loss making thing but what charity makes money. Plus at the end of the day it would be my project to aim at helping.

Ahh ya their my dreams but I always fight for my dreams and it's my gear to keep driving me forward

Palytoxin

JamJamJamJam wrote: »

I don't know what an axiology is! You win!!!

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree! (I like reading inane stuff that may eventually be somewhat relevant! )

iamanengine

Anyone from Cork know if there's any possible late-ish public transport?

I'm goin to the National gig from Galway but I duno how I'm gunna get home If I get even get to Dublin I'd be grand!

Also, could anyone show me where the Marquee is on Google Maps? Struggling to find it!

Also, again, in the event I can't get a bus, does anyone know of any decent but fairly cheap places to stay near the Marquee? I've never been to Cork, hence my general confusion/scaredness

Jhcx

I dont know what makes me weak. If i could only just figure out the part in my head that is focusing on the segment that is breaking me down i might be able to control it. But when i think about such an emotion my mind is blank. Like Read this article, Not a sad article, Touching but not sad and yet somewhere into the 4th paragraph as the photo began to vanish from my screen as i scrolled i could no longer hold back the tears that filled my eyes. I just dont understand. I shouldn't be weak i dont feel weak. like after 5 seconds im ok again and moved onto other things but for those few moments i snap.

I dont even know what im thinking about. Like that article had nothing to do with the reason for my tears. Thinking about it its like my cry for my own life. The things i miss the things that make me angry. The people i know who are suffering and im trying to fill their gap. I do live my life in a big "What If" lifestyle and i guess just seeing whats happening in the picture just brings me back to my childhood and wishing what happened just magically disappeared and what would life be like if... kick in!

Im just sick of thinking. I dont stop! Trying to live a life of someone im not how i can perfect my own.

Jhcx

Ever seen a human run at 25mph pretty fcked up freaky

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV_KM8zYFsk

Slow Show

How long would it realistically take someone to prepare for the theory test? I mean I know there are some people that are like 'I flicked through the book the night before and did grand' but let's face it, I know very little other than the most basic common sense, I've spent most of my car journeys through the years either reading or listening to music and just never cared for the road and when doing a practise test last year I got something terrible like 15/40.

If I booked it for the 23rd would I be grand? :P Also how long does it take for them to give you your provisional license assuming I pass, like tbh a huge motivation behind this is to have a new form of ID. :P

Jhcx

Slow Show wrote: »

How long would it realistically take someone to prepare for the theory test? I mean I know there are some people that are like 'I flicked through the book the night before and did grand' but let's face it, I know very little other than the most basic common sense, I've spent most of my car journeys through the years either reading or listening to music and just never cared for the road and when doing a practise test last year I got something terrible like 15/40.

If I booked it for the 23rd would I be grand? :P Also how long does it take for them to give you your provisional license assuming I pass, like tbh a huge motivation behind this is to have a new form of ID. :P

Buy the disc and you should be grand to go for the 23rd providing you do it at least 5times or as many as you can per day till you are confident you will just scrap it. whats it 35/40 your allowed right? i spent 1week studying it and passed first time round. The disc is a 100% copy of what you are going to see on the computer rather than a book at only 80% visually. books are useless for this.

wnolan1992

I can't answer any of those questions Slow Show, but I decided to waste my time and do a mock one. :P



I'm quite proud!

I would've passed too if I knew the stopping distance when braking or hadn't gone against my first instinct on a question about contacting insurance after a crash.

So really, if I can do it, you'll be fine for the 23rd. :P

Linky.

iamanengine

Urgent advice needed!

So we don't have an oven in the house only a microwave oven. Can I cook a pizza from the shop in it?

Pigwidgeon

iamanengine wrote: »

Urgent advice needed!

So we don't have an oven in the house only a microwave oven. Can I cook a pizza from the shop in it?

Nope... Unless you buy micropizzas (do they still sell them). If it's a very desperate need for pizza, a take away would probably be your best solution .

iamanengine

Pigwidgeon wrote: »

Nope... Unless you buy micropizzas (do they still sell them). If it's a very desperate need for pizza, a take away would probably be your best solution .

It's more of a case that it's the only food I have and I'm hungry :P Oh, it's a convection microwave, does that make a difference?

Lightbulb Sun

iamanengine wrote: »

Urgent advice needed!

So we don't have an oven in the house only a microwave oven. Can I cook a pizza from the shop in it?

Did this myself a month or two ago in a standard microwave. It just makes the pizza soggy but no harm done.

iamanengine

Lightbulb Sun wrote: »

Did this myself a month or two ago in a standard microwave. It just makes the pizza soggy but no harm done.

Nice, how long did you do it for?

Lightbulb Sun

iamanengine wrote: »

Nice, how long did you do it for?

5 minutes I think.

Lawliet

Probably a stupid question but why do you have frozen pizza and no oven?

iamanengine

Lawliet wrote: »

Probably a stupid question but why do you have frozen pizza and no oven?

It was 99 pence and all I could afford

Side note, went for it, and it tasted totally normal, not soggy or anything, win!:cool:

Pigwidgeon

Was it really hot all the way through? I'd personally have been more worried about it defrosting too fast and not getting hot enough to kill all the bacteria. Although I did have to do a two day food safety course last week so am still in the overly paranoid stage after that :P

iamanengine

Pigwidgeon wrote: »

Was it really hot all the way through? I'd personally have been more worried about it defrosting too fast and not getting hot enough to kill all the bacteria. Although I did have to do a two day food safety course last week so am still in the overly paranoid stage after that :P

Yeah Im pretty sure it was piping hot plus I had let it defrost a little, so hopefully all is well :pac:

wnolan1992

iamanengine wrote: »

Yeah Im pretty sure it was piping hot plus I had let it defrost a little, so hopefully all is well :pac:

And they never heard from lamanengine again... :pac:

SarahBeep!

How much is a theory test theses days?? I'm 21, should probably do it like....

bluejay14

SarahBeep! wrote: »

How much is a theory test theses days?? I'm 21, should probably do it like....

Just booked mine earlier - €45

Nerdkiller1991

So...anyone gonna watch Independence Day tomorrow?

SarahBeep!

bluejaymraz wrote: »

Just booked mine earlier - €45

Ugh,robbery!

bluejay14

SarahBeep! wrote: »

Ugh,robbery!

The practice disc thing is another like €22 too but I think the book is waaaaaay cheaper.

suitcasepink

Everyone here and IRL are doing their theory tests... Starting to feel encouraged to do mine now

bluejay14

deise_girl wrote: »

Everyone here and IRL are doing their theory tests... Starting to feel encouraged to do mine now

I have to do something with my summer apart from watching mind-numbing tv,

Slow Show

I dunno whether to spend 45 euro on the theory test or 40 euro on tickets for The National in November. Can't afford both and veering toward the latter at the moment. :P All shall be decided when I get paid tomorrow.

MauraTheThird

I got a tattoo today, that's how I'm wasting my money since I did the theory test two years ago and haven't even booked a driving test yet

Vito Corleone

I only did the theory test so I'd get into our local nightclub.

Jhcx

Vito Corleone wrote: »

I only did the theory test so I'd get into our local nightclub.

As a proud driver, and someone who takes driving very seriously. As it is a life long skill and always a learning curve, I dont approve of the above*

I've seen people who have just done their tests just for the sake of it. and managed to get out on the road. how dafuq they passed baffles me. Cause when they are out on the road they nearly kill people and i have seen it.

Some people are genuine about driving but then there are the few who want to do it cause its looks "cool"

*all the above is my opinion. im not giving out and couldnt careless what ye do. Just that i take driving serious and would like other road users to be serious too about it after all it can mean life or death

Colm!

yeah, but a provisional makes good ID?

Jhcx

Colm! wrote: »

yeah, but a provisional makes good ID?

It does and doesn't (at times). Never used mine for that reason. Didn't have it long enough.

Pigwidgeon

I thought most places didn't accept driving licences as id? Or is it better with the new type?

Cakes.

Can we rename the den the "D&N" due to all the B&N talk...

wnolan1992

Cakes. wrote: »

Can we rename the den the "D&N" due to all the B&N talk...

No.



:P

Jhcx

Cakes. wrote: »

Can we rename the den the "D&N" due to all the B&N talk...

... I.D required :pac: