Floor sanding /varnish

Maisie

When we bought our house 25 years ago we had all the floors professionally sanded and varnished. Over the years we covered them again with carpet, laminate etc. Just decided to remove carpet again from one room. It really just needed a light sanding but I stupidly hired a floor sander. Its now a patchy mess and I can't take any more sanding. Never again.!

My problem now is wondering if clear varnish will still show the patchy bits and if i would be better off using a darker wood stain first, to hopefully cover up the bad bits. The timber was old pine and with the original varnish it was a lovely golden colour. Hubby thinks clear varnish will 'take' more on the white/fresh wood bits and therefore even out the rest. Any ideas?

Wertz

By patchy you mean where the floor sander has torn through to bare wood? Going to be tough getting it a uniform shade again if so. The original floor coating will have darkened over the years and any new coating is going to take some years to blend in...on the other hand light stains etc will be very hard to match and will show up the grain differently.
To get it uniform would mean sanding it fully back or else going for a pretty dark stain which may not suit

Maisie

Hi Wertz,
Thanks for the reply.

Yes its back to the original wood in places [very white] and in other places its the old varnish colour.....now a nice golden. The boards are probably a bit uneven and thats why we have the patches. Would take forever to get it all back to the natural.

A friend just suggested floor paint. I didnt know such a thing existed so am going to google that now. Do you know anything about floor paint? Whatever I do, there will be a trip to IKEA for big rugs in the next day or so.

Wertz

Rugs are a great get out clause.
Floor paint is grand but on your wood floor it will probably require priming too. Not painted a wooden floor in a while (usually concrete ones), probably lots of products for it these days....if it were me I'd go for an oil based one, but waterbased will obviously dry a bit quicker and you can get the job done sooner.
If you're hellbent on keeping the floor natural, you could try spot priming the bare parts of the floor...it would help if you knew exactly what was used when it was done first (lacquer/floor varnish/polyurethane/any stain added) and try to match it that way...spot prime it twice, lightly sand the whole lot (by hand not machine!) and put a topcoat on the whole thing...it might blend in over time...if it doesn't there's always the rugs

twogunkid

This a job for a professional--I know because I experienced the same issue you describe. I got this guy called Jonathon --He fixed it by sanding and re varnishing--I would never attempt that again--it is a skill learned over the years- ( -if u PM me I will give you his number don't want him getting spam )

Maisie

Thanks again.
Wertz, going to go with the spot priming. Originally there was no stain added, so 25 years ago it was a very light colour and it just mellowed. I will try and get a stain in a cherrywood sort of colour. And what sort of varnish would you say for the top coat? And is gloss the best option. The original was probably gloss but the carpet underlay had taken a bit of the sheen off it.

Thanks twogunkid , but this whole project was my personal moment of madness and not something i wanted to spend loads of money on. To be honest, If I was going to spend money on it now I would just order carpet. That might happen yet, but for now, I want to finish it myself, somehow!! And prove to hubby it looks ok!

To think that a few days ago, that floor was basically perfect! A wash and bit of polish was probably all it needed. Huge lesson learned!! It will be a future conversation piece if nothing else.

Wertz

Topcoat is entirely aesthetic, some prefer gloss and some satin, both are as durable. Gloss will throw more reflected light but will also show up imperfections.
Bear in mind if you're going to stain it that the stain will not be soaking into the grain (since it'll be a sealed surface, after spot priming and the original patchy coat) and so will show up the application method...best done by brush along the grain rather than rolled on. Might be an idea to get a floor varnish that has the stain in it rather than using two different products...and I'd be using oil if it were me. Water-based stuff is fine but there may be compatibility problems over the older coating which is likely oil or solvent based...

firesidechat

DO NOT APPLY STAIN !

Pine is a soft wood and does not absorb evenly. I know this from experience, You will not get a uniform stain, It will be all blotchy .
If you insist on using a stain first you must apply a coat of wood conditioner which will seal just under the skin of the timber and allow for an even distribution of wood stain.Even then the results are not guaranteed.
The likes of oak or mahogany can be stained as they are from the hardwood family ,unlike pine which is a softwood.

Wertz

Her floors are already blotchy and after any spot priming will also be sealed so applying stain will be fine (if that's what it comes to).
When applying stain to raw softwoods it's the done thing to thin the stain by about 20% to stop the over absorbency and increase workability hence allowing the worker to get a consistent shade...applying wood conditioner is an extra layer of work and cost that can be negated.
Many people when staining too, tend to apply too little over too large an area and then "double up" by going back over areas where stain has already soaked in...this is especially noticeable with dark shades or when working with a waterborne product that dries faster.

firesidechat

As i said .. Do not apply stain..
If you want to why not take a piece of pine and see for yourself what will happen...
I have a background in restoration work and believe me you do not want to stain pine.

Wertz

Funny, myself and my workmate did an entire house of reclaimed nova scotia pine wideboards a few years back in ranelagh...one coat of thinned ground stain in dark oak, brushed and ragged off then finished in matt lacquer. No inconsistencies were noted, these were large floors with lots of light from tall bay windows. We were happy, client was happy.

That's neither here nor there however since if you read the OP, the floor is already sealed: why would you condtion wood that is already sealed? The conditioner wouldn't penetrate the grain and it would be a waste of both time and money, something she's already done by hiring/using the floor sander.

firesidechat

Because pine is a softwood the conditioner and stain would penetrate the grains. If no conditioner is applied the stain would be unevenly absorbed .
The fact that the OP stated that the floor has been sanded would also mean that the conditioner has quiet possibly been erased and hence the need to recondition the fresh surface.
I would not like to see any job where a dark stain has been applied to pine without the correct preparation work .It would just look like a bad paint job.

Wertz

How can the conditioner penetrate a sealed surface? Softwood or hardwood, no odds, sealed is sealed.
She has sanded it and has stripped it to bare wood in patches; something she didn't want to do. Now she wants to get it as even as possible, short of stripping the entire thing and re-coating. I suggested spot priming the bare areas with the same product as used originally (if possible) and then putting a full top coat onand perhaps it might blend in over time...she suggested staining it, if my method still leaves it looking patchy...if she stains it then it will be applied over a sealed surface, hence the stain will not be penetrating the sealed surface which will hence not require conditioner.

You're not wrong in what you say but in this instance neither am I.

firesidechat

* stomps foot*
I'm right and you're wrong !

She probably has the carpet ordered by now.

Wertz

FWIW what would you do in the OP's position...?
She doesn't/didn't want to strip it right back (the only way to be sure IMO) and if she did she wouldn't be staining it anyway since she seems to prefer the natural shade. The staining is her suggestion for hiding the blotchiness that only hard work and lots of sawdust can truly rectify...

firesidechat

I can only see two solutions.

(1) Hire a professional who has experience with using a floor sander. Sanding floors IMO is not a diy project and takes a degree of skill.
Coat the floor with a clear varnish, Let dry overnight, buff with steel wool (again takes experience), vacum and apply finish coat. I would not apply any stain because within a short period the floor will begin to darken(golden ) on its own.

(2). Carpet.

Painting would not be an option for me as one would still have to prepare the surface to take the paint and you may as well go all the way and sand/varnish.

Charge a large consultancy fee...:)

Maisie

Well Firesidechat, the floor is finished [totally by me!] and although not perfect by any means, the great advice given by Wertz here saved the day....and my sanity. Thank you Wertz!!;)
Its a little patchy, but the stain worked. I painted it heavier in the white bare wood parts.

But of course twogunkid was right.....this is a job for a professional. And although reluctant to say it......for a man and not a 55 year old 'girl'. [That sander weighed a ton] Even when hubby tried to help he found it difficult.

But i saved face [although plan on buying a nice rug in IKEA] and learned a hard lesson........I WILL NEVER SAND A FLOOR AGAIN IN MY LIFE:D

Thanks guys

firesidechat

well i suppose that is the difference between a perfectionist and a DIY.

As long as you are happy with it......

Wertz

Hard to tell from photos but that doesn't look too shabby and once you're happy with it that's the important thing. Floor sanding is really something that only needs done once every half century where multiple coats and damage can't be coated over...for floors in any kind of reasonable shape, a drum sander is overkill. Glad it worked out for you in the end.

As a matter of interest what stain did you use?

I think myself and firesidechat are getting our dyes/stains and gel stains/stain-varnishes mixed up perhaps. The only surfaces I've ever had problems with stains on raw softwood timber has been on turned spindles and newel posts which are basically open end grain and very prone to over absorbtion...never on smooth faced timber, doors, flooring or otherwise.

Maisie

No its not too bad at all. 'Rustic' looking you might say!

I used Ronseal 'daimond hard' varnish in a mid oak colour, so technically I suppose it was not exactly stain.