Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Straight Talker

Can we play ye in Walsh Park on our next away trip to Waterford?I'd love it if Man From Cheese was made look like an even bigger buffoon than he already is!:D

ManFromCheese

Straight Talker wrote: »

Can we play ye in Walsh Park on our next away trip to Waterford?I'd love it if Man From Cheese was made look like an even bigger buffoon than he already is!:D

why dont you head back to your own county thread, god knows ye have enough problems of ye're own to discuss!

Black Suir

ManFromCheese wrote: »

`

well, im not from the city and im not a mt sion man either!! i flew home from abroad for the 08 all ireland and ive been going to see waterford hurl since the 80s so dont try be patronising here at all butty, i know what it is to support waterford and who gave you the right to tell me where and what i can do with my business....
fact of the matter is, fraher field is a disgrace, ive been to games there and have played there many many times and it is both an awful venue for a spectator as it is a player...i think there was another thread on this forum complaining about fraher field since the cork game, so i know my view is held far and wide....
im far from pro kk but if you think theyr support just shows up to AI finals your wide off the mark and to be honest, your knowledge or lack thereof of what hurling is about is really telling....
the game last wk fixed for fraher field had nothing to do with coffers and it certainly wasnt geared towards giving any advantage to waterford so ill leave those reasons for the choosing of venue open to speculation...

Of What i have seen on there, its all about the stewards not doing their job on the day not about whether the game should be played at the venue and if the facilities are up to standard.

Some people seem to give out alot about Fraher Field and speak of Walsh Park as if it is up there with Croke Park, the Emerites, Old Trafford, Anfield etc, lets not forget, that up to fairly recent time the facilities at Walsh Park which lets be honest is our county ground (Fraher Field is our second ground), were far from ideal. You had four small dressing rooms, smaller than the ones in Walsh Park, which teams will have to use next week when a double header is played at the venue. What odds that its the footballers are put in them.

Just to let people know as to why the game with Cork was played in Dungarvan. There is a long standing rule within the county that at least one game in the league would be played in Dungarvan. Its a bye agreed with the clubs in the past and has nothing to do with a county board that as a bias towards the west as some suggest. If people have a problem with this, I would suggest that they get onto their club at its AGM or where ever and get a motion put into the county board seeking that all games are played at Walsh Park. Or would that be a problem to some as I would think that some on here dont have a club and that some tag on to whoever is doing well at a particular time.

Black Suir

ManFromCheese wrote: »

Mountainlad wrote: »

That was one person complaining about stewarding, nothing to do with Fraher Field in reality. So far and wide is quite the overstatement.

I've played on Fraher Field several times and always look forward to it, it's a brilliant sod. There's been 4 or 5 games on it since last weekend and everyone that's come off it has talked about the good condition of the pitch is. My only issue with Walsh Park is the surface, which is scandalous. Watch the first 13 seconds even and you will see what I'm talking about:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2RxI15zOJg[/QUOTE]

so by showing me that clip, you mean to say fraher field has never been waterlogged? ive certainly played there when its been a complete mudbath...
in reality that thread has everything to do with fraher field, the stewarding was a problem due to the facilities, the stand couldnt take the crowd that turned up...the dressing rooms are long and narrow and very inadequate for a team to tog out in, theres no room in there, physios usually have to set there tables up in the toilets / shower area, the showers are usually stone cold or they would scald you, theres a dead atmosphere in the ground, certainly as a player anyway, its just not a venue for hurling...walsh park is beautiful in summer, theres always an atmosphere and the dressing rooms are decent, the stand is far bigger also

There is a difference between water logged which can happen in any field, be it a Gaelic Field, a field used for any other sport or if it is used for cows to graze. But one that could could nearly cut tuf on any time there is a shower of rain in a different thing.

randd1

seananigans wrote: »

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with most all of your narrow city propaganda (and I am cityside)

We are Déise, we are not KK we don't forget the team exists until the AI final ,we work with our team ,we support our team, we wish them well on the street, if the team does well we ,we share them in their successes,and if they lose,we support them even more ,I was on the quay in '08 when 10,000 turned out to welcome the guys home,and I can tell you your type of naysaying doesn't belong,they deserve our support and admiration from clashmore to hookhead .


I support the Déise not only because it's ,my birthright (my upbringing is a little complicated) I do so because every year someone says they'e finished,and are proven wrong, an I take great inspiration from that into my personal life.

If you are more interested in your mt sion/city agenda than the best interests of our team, you have no business here

As a Kilkenny man I would have issue with that.

I don't get where this notion we only turn for the AI comes, our league attendances are as much as anyone else's, which is notable considering we have a smaller population than most. More than that, the amount of people that turn up for club games in Kilkenny is very high. At the Carrickshock/O'Loughlins senior QF last year, there was about 4000 people at the match in Ballyhale, with similar figures for the other QF's and much bigger crowds the games after that. We always get good crowds for our club games.

And as a further point, the 10,000 that turned up for the Waterford side in 08 was a great crowd considering what happened in the final. In 2010, something like 20,000 turned up to welcome the Kilkenny team home, I remember Brian Hogan saying something about the team being really motivated to win the AI in 2011 due to the amount of people to welcome them home after losing, they couldn't believe especially the roars of appreciation and support they got that day after losing.

I can assure you, Kilkenny fans don't forget the team exists until the AI. And while they mightn't go to every county match, the majority of Kilkenny fans will follow their club everywhere, as well as the club scene too. The County Board generate a lot of money as a result, which is part of the reason we have so much success.

Straight Talker

If ourselves and say Waterford finish in the bottom two will we be meeting each other to decide who's going on the trip to division 1B?

randd1

Straight Talker wrote: »

If ourselves and say Waterford finish in the bottom two will we be meeting each other to decide who's going on the trip to division 1B?

Yes, that's the format of the league.

If Waterford beat Kilkenny tomorrow, then its likely that Kilkenny will be one of the relegation "finalists" along with Cork.

IF Waterford win tomorrow...

doublejj

walsh park and fraher field are an embarrassment ......its not the supporters fault its the county and both divisional boards.....of all munster counties we can never play a championship game at home....

Dickys Back Garden

seananigans wrote: »

I'm sorry, I have to disagree with most all of your narrow city propaganda (and I am cityside)

We are Déise, we are not KK we don't forget the team exists until the AI final ,we work with our team ,we support our team, we wish them well on the street, if the team does well we ,we share them in their successes,and if they lose,we support them even more ,I was on the quay in '08 when 10,000 turned out to welcome the guys home,and I can tell you your type of naysaying doesn't belong,they deserve our support and admiration from clashmore to hookhead .


I support the Déise not only because it's ,my birthright (my upbringing is a little complicated) I do so because every year someone says they'e finished,and are proven wrong, an I take great inspiration from that into my personal life.

If you are more interested in your mt sion/city agenda than the best interests of our team, you have no business here

My God! The bias and prejudice that exists towards Mount Sion is incredible!

carter10

We should be discussing tomorrows game against Kilkenny but yet again pointless posts about this East v West BS. Boring

Black Suir

doublejj wrote: »

walsh park and fraher field are an embarrassment ......its not the supporters fault its the county and both divisional boards.....of all munster counties we can never play a championship game at home....

Timmy O'Keffee made a suggestion two or three years ago, but it was thrown out with the path water. Too many people were not thinking when they went against what he had to say.

If a person is a G.A.A. Supporter and a Waterford Supporter and you are drawn for example to play Tipp in the championship, would you prefer to have the game played in Cork and for the Cork County Board to get make €50 or €60k for one days work, or would you prefer to drive up the road to Kilkenny and for the Waterford County Board to get this money, LESS what the Kilkenny County Board would charge in rent.

I dont think the Munster Council would care where the game was played if counties entered in a home and away arrangement with Waterford, so long as the ground that Waterford are putting up to use for day is up to the requirments of the Council and Health and Safety. The Ulster Council have used Croke Park after all for their Football Final a few years ago, and am i right in saying that Kildare played a home NFL game this year in Croke Park.

If an agreement could be reached between the Waterford and Kilkenny Boards as to the use of Nolan Park, why not look into entering a home and away agreement with the likes of Cork, Tipperary and Limerick. There might be a small few fools in the city area and the area around it who would suggest that under dead bodies no Waterford game should be played in Kilkenny, but feck this lot. We should be doing what is good for Waterford G.A.A. and forget all about the Waterford/Kilkenny thing that some people take for ever too serious.

ManFromCheese

sad state of affairs that we have no proper county ground, it would have paid for itself after a few years, where carriganore complex is would have been ideal due to access and proximity...ah well!!

varberg

Makes no sense that waterford gaa didnt develop a modern stadium a few years ago. It would be possible to do it even cheaper now than then. Have to say i have been at munster hurling matches in limerick, cork, killarney and thurles but never at a game in waterford.

Surely it would benefit all round to develop a stadium? The team would have modern facilities and the public would have a developed grounds.The broader local economy-the pubs,restaurants and so on would benefit from an influx of hurling or gaelic football followers every summer. It could be developed in or around the city and at other times could be used by the college or for county finals etc. It is possible if the demand is there for it.

Could the present walsh park or fraher field be developed to an adequate standard or rebuilt to accomodate comfortably a large crowd of 30 or 40k ?

ManFromCheese

varberg wrote: »

Makes no sense that waterford gaa didnt develop a modern stadium a few years ago. It would be possible to do it even cheaper now than then. Have to say i have been at munster hurling matches in limerick, cork, killarney and thurles but never at a game in waterford.

Surely it would benefit all round to develop a stadium? The team would have modern facilities and the public would have a developed grounds.The broader local economy-the pubs,restaurants and so on would benefit from an influx of hurling or gaelic football followers every summer. It could be developed in or around the city and at other times could be used by the college or for county finals etc. It is possible if the demand is there for it.

Could the present walsh park or fraher field be developed to an adequate standard or rebuilt to accomodate comfortably a large crowd of 30 or 40k ?

waterford co board is broke and in massive debt, theres no hope of a new stadium for the forseable future

robopaddy

varberg wrote: »

Makes no sense that waterford gaa didnt develop a modern stadium a few years ago. It would be possible to do it even cheaper now than then. Have to say i have been at munster hurling matches in limerick, cork, killarney and thurles but never at a game in waterford.

Surely it would benefit all round to develop a stadium? The team would have modern facilities and the public would have a developed grounds.The broader local economy-the pubs,restaurants and so on would benefit from an influx of hurling or gaelic football followers every summer. It could be developed in or around the city and at other times could be used by the college or for county finals etc. It is possible if the demand is there for it.

Could the present walsh park or fraher field be developed to an adequate standard or rebuilt to accomodate comfortably a large crowd of 30 or 40k ?

answer me this, why do we need a 30/40k stadium? there are 4 other stadiums in munster of that size and realistically how often are they anyway near full? thurles maybe a couple times a year the others maybe once every couple years. at the moment it wouldnt make any sense to pump money into a new state of the art stadium its far from our priorities and unfortunately we dont have a jp mcmanus to 'gift' us one. of course id be all for an upgrade of walsh park or fraher, or even redevelop facilities at carriganore and get wit to row in behind us. (relations with wit are important as a lot of our players enter third level there) i know it sounds glamorous having a state of the art stadium to be proud of but it didnt make economic sense in the good times certainly not now. just because other counties hve invested dosent necessarily essential for us to do it

KevIRL

Was the team for todays match posted?

IanVW

Waterford Senior Hurling Team to play Kilkenny on Monday in Nowlan Park at 2.00pm in Round 3 of the Allianz Hurling League (Div. 1A)
1. Stephen O’Keeffe Ballygunner
2. Shane Fives Carrigtwohill
3. Liam Lawlor Fourmilewater
4. Stephen Daniels De La Salle
5. Jamie Nagle Dungarvan
6. Michael Walsh Stradbally
7. Kevin Moran (CAPT.) De La Salle
8. Shane O’Sullivan Ballygunner
9. Darragh Fives Tourin
10. Brian O’Halloran Clashmore/Kinsalebeg
11. Seamus Prendergast Ardmore
12. Jake Dillon De La Salle
13 Brian O’Sullivan Ballygunner
14. Shane Walsh Fourmilewater
15. Pauric Mahony Ballygunner

cleaboy boy

Expect Paudie Prendergast to start ahead of Daragh Fives. Daragh isn't fit enough to start.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Not far off our Championship 15 Id say. Maybe Nagle dropped for Connors and Fives or Daniels to wingback. Possibly Maurice in for O Halloran too?

Mountainlad

Pete Campbell wrote: »

Not far off our Championship 15 Id say. Maybe Nagle dropped for Connors and Fives or Daniels to wingback. Possibly Maurice in for O Halloran too?

Nah I'd say O Halloran won't be dropped if he keep playing the way he's playing. Brian Sully and Mahony are more in threat than any of the other forwards at the moment.

randd1

How much would it cost to re-develop Walsh Park to a 30,000 capacity stadium (which would be about right for a county of Waterford's population)?

Say they decided to go ahead and do that, there's a novel way of paying for it, and I think it was actually a club in Waterford (Portlaw I think it was) that came up with this payment scheme a few years ago when they redeveloped their club grounds.

Rather than having the club go into debt over the rebuilding, they got 100 people a week from the local area and involved with the club to give a fiver every week for a few years. Works out at gathering €500 a week, which is 26,000 a year.

Now say the Waterford CB had the same idea, and say 2,000 fans from within the county got involved in the same type of scheme (I imagine that level of support would be there in Waterford) and give a tenner a week for 10 years which works out at €500 a year per person, then Waterford would be able to generate €20,000 a week, which is about a million a year, €10 million overall. Throw in the carrot of a free entry for league games and a free ticket to the first championship game every year, as well as having tickets reserved for them first if they get to Croke Park.

Not sure it would work but worth thinking about all the same. Waterford do need a new stadium, maybe not a 30,000 capacity stadium, maybe only a 22,000 capacity stadium, but they need a new one. Its a pity that Waterford are about the only major hurling county that could never play home Championship games because the stadium is too small to hold a crowd.

Mountainlad

I think the Couty Board's immediate focus has to be servicing the 750,000 euro debt. I believe we secured a 1 million euro loan from what was being said here a few months ago. So we need to be able to repay that, and hten generate the funds to ensure that interested players don't have to suffer the farce that the u21 panel had to deal with (or indeed any prospective young footballer).

deiseach

robopaddy wrote: »

answer me this, why do we need a 30/40k stadium?

Vanity.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Mountainlad wrote: »

Nah I'd say O Halloran won't be dropped if he keep playing the way he's playing. Brian Sully and Mahony are more in threat than any of the other forwards at the moment.

Good shout on Sully. Thought Mahony might be kept in for his free taking through personally I'd have Dillon on them, Just don't trust Maurice or Mahony at this level myself.

Ando's Saggy Bottom

I'd rather the CB kept their money for radical ideas like organsing actual training sessions for the underage footballers than building a white elepahnt county ground that'd be filled maybe once every 3/4 years. Theres already too many spanking new grounds that barely get used in Munster.

The use of Nowlan Park was a decent idea but was always going to be too forward thinking an radical for the neanderthals running county affairs in Waterford.

solarith

Pete Campbell wrote: »

I'd rather the CB kept their money for radical ideas like organsing actual training sessions for the underage footballers than building a white elepahnt county ground that'd be filled maybe once every 3/4 years. Theres already too many spanking new grounds that barely get used in Munster.

The use of Nowlan Park was a decent idea but was always going to be too forward thinking an radical for the neanderthals running county affairs in Waterford.

Clubs elect club committees.
Club committees make decisions and go to meetings held by county board.
The club delegates vote on everything which is proposed by the board.
The co board is voted by club delegates.

Maybe we should stop bashing the county board - take a look at ourselves and elect some club delegates who are young, forward thinking and smart. This is the only way to change the county board.

solarith

Anyone consider we're better without Mullane? People stepping up.

Cake Man

Up by 2pts, 0-11 to 1-6 at HT, come on lads keep it going. Doing very well but apparently a poor goal to concede resulting from SOK giving a poor puckout straight to a KK forward and he duly buried so could be further ahead.

Better team first half tho, keep kicking on lads.

solarith

I think there's a strong breeze in favour of KK this half?

W 0-12
KK 1-9


[edit]

Waterford 0-14
Kilkenny 1-9
46 Mins

cleaboy boy

Wasnt at the match and didnt get to listen either, were the 2 goals Kilkenny scored a result of goalkeeping errors? Looks like we led for 60 mins of the 70.

deisedude

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Calamity O'Keefe does it again. What a shame when the likes of Adrian Power is not even on the panel. We were beaten by a very poor Kilkenny side today and now we are looking at a dogfight for relegation.

It was Powers decision last year to walk from the panel. Big fan of Power but seen him concede some clangers too

Formosa

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Wasnt at the match and didnt get to listen either, were the 2 goals Kilkenny scored a result of goalkeeping errors? Looks like we led for 60 mins of the 70.

First goal was buried but second was dropped by O'Keeffe & flicked in. It came at a stage where Kilkenny were labouring.

cleaboy boy

Won't ever blame a player due to the commitment they give to the jersey but a solid goalkeeper has been the downfall of many a Waterford team. Still in the mix with 2 home games to come is one positive.

seananigans

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Won't ever blame a player due to the commitment they give to the jersey but a solid goalkeeper has been the downfall of many a Waterford team. Still in the mix with 2 home games to come is one positive.

I would call that one hell of a performance, for some reason when the conditions changed they weren't as good in the wet, such a shame, if it had been over at 55 minutes it would be considered a classic

willietherock

Paudie Pendergast looked good

alllcounty

Good performance from waterford, especially the backs and special mention to Paudi Prendergast who didn't look out of place in midfield.

However the biggest talking point from a waterford perspective is the constant short puckouts by Stephen O'Keefe to the full back line, constantly putting our backs under pressure. I lost count how many times the ball was intercepted deep on our own back line as a result. The two goals we conceded came from it and at least 5 points came from doing it. He persisted with it constantly throughout the game and I cant make sense of it.

I thought when Davy was gone it would be the end of these short puckouts and putting our defence under pressure. The manager needs to have faith in our half forward line to win the ball in the air. The constant short puckouts was a complete disaster and if it wasn't for that we could have won the game. Can anyone explain why this short puck out is being persisted with?

Mountainlad

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Calamity O'Keefe does it again. What a shame when the likes of Adrian Power is not even on the panel. We were beaten by a very poor Kilkenny side today and now we are looking at a dogfight for relegation.

Terrible thing to say about such a promising young keeper. The first goal was a stupid mistake but like he's young and learning and had a few brilliant puck outs, and in fairness he dealt very well with having to clear a few ball under pressure from hand passes he received back to him.


Kilkenny deserved to win, they destroyed us in the last 20 minutes. Our forwards saw nothing in that time, there was no space created and no threat. We didn't cast a human shadow over the goalposts all game. In the first half we had 8 points from play, a lot of them were from inside our own half which was good to see us utilizing the strength of having big hitters but given what was happening win the ball went into the full forward line it seemed inevitable that Kilkenny were going to win second half with the wind behind them.

The backs were good by and large, but Kilkenny somehow managed to create a lot of space particularly at the end, and they would have had a few more goals if the weather had been dry. I thought Brick was superb, and that Shane Sully was very good first half. Brian O Halloran had another very good game and the only forward who was ever present. Seamus tired towards the end, I think himself and Maurice should have been switched when Shane Walsh came off. Paudie Prender did well for a part of the matcg, but we were killed in midfield in the final quarter but matter weren't helped by some members of the half forward line not tracking back well enough.

On a side note, and while I don't feel it had a huge bearing on the result I have to say it's disappointing how hard it is to win a free against Kilkenny in contrast to them winning them. I know this won't sit well with the Kilkenny folk that will no doubt read this, but I felt there was plenty of instances where the man was fouled but nothing was given. They seem to crowd around you and then grab the arm, so that the ref's view is obstructed. I saw it in the second half that one was given where Shane Sully took 5 steps and then cleverly the Kilkenny player grabbed his arm to prevent him placing the ball on his hurley but didn't hold on too long in an attempt to get a free for over carrying, but it was copped that time. Of course, behind me I could hear people bemoaning the free being given and therein lies part of the problem. The ref seemed afraid almost to give frees for fear of how the crowd might react. Typically enough, Aylward or Hogan was penalized in the corner in the second half when they should have been awarded a free in which caused pandemonium in the stand as a chorus of boos reigned down on the ref and then when Fives fouled a few minutes later and they got a free there was an ironic cheer as if Kilkenny had been finding it impossible to get frees

On an similar note, referees are handing out cards like confetti at the moment. Sexton was a joke yesterday in the club final, and a few stupid cards today as well. Can't understand how Seamus got a yellow, and Daniels was hard done by as well which probably didn't help him afterwards because he had to try and be careful and Aylward really dominated after that, even if he was probably getting the better of him anyway.

I wouldn't read too much into the display (which was good for most of the first half and part of the second), it's a league game. We just have to move on and pick up the points elsewhere.

alllcounty

Mountainlad wrote: »

Terrible thing to say about such a promising young keeper. The first goal was a stupid mistake but like he's young and learning and had a few brilliant puck outs, and in fairness he dealt very well with having to clear a few ball under pressure from hand passes he received back to him.


Kilkenny deserved to win, they destroyed us in the last 20 minutes. Our forwards saw nothing in that time, there was no space created and no threat. We didn't cast a human shadow over the goalposts all game. In the first half we had 8 points from play, a lot of them were from inside our own half which was good to see us utilizing the strength of having big hitters but given what was happening win the ball went into the full forward line it seemed inevitable that Kilkenny were going to win second half with the wind behind them.

His puckouts was the single biggest reason why we lost this game. We could't get the ball past half field in the last quarter as ball after ball was being hit out to the full back line puting us under all sorts of pressure. Davy will be happy with that game and will fancy his chances of beating kilkenny next in ennis next week.

WumBuster

Its annoying to be constantly losing games down thru the years due to basic goalkeeping errors. It never seems to happen with other counties. But he's young and entitled to make one or two mistakes lets hope this wont sap his confidence. On balance, we didnt deserve to win today, it was always going to be a huge battle in the last 15 mins to try and close whatever small lead we had out, so thats the second week in a row we have lost or dropped points from a winning position(as in the championship v Cork last year), its no good being a first half team if you arent closing it out.

Black Suir

I know he is a good player, but think the management have to look at Pauric Mahony's roll in the team. I dont think we can have him on the field just to hit frees. His score rate from open play is very poor. I would be thinking of bringing in Maurice Shanahan for him the next day. He can strike a free and is also able to score from play.

There seem to be a few that think O'Keeffe should also be looked at. I think he is grand in goal, chopping and changing a goal keeper can seriously dent his confidence. However, If i was Michael Ryan or one of the selectors, I would be telling him to put the puckouts down on top of the head of Seamus Prendergast or inside the half forward line. This short puck out is dangerous. I have felt with a while that some team was going to get punished. What a pity it was Waterford today.

Black Suir

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Looking at the scoring average this weekend doesn't give me much hope of any home victory as we have the lowest score of all. Sorry to be so cruel to Steven but they were two clanger's he should have nightmare's about, the first goal came from a short pass that went completely astray and came straight back at him with interest with a big thank you from Kilkenny who were finding it sticky going against a Waterford team that were doing quiet well. One point coming away from Nolan Park would have done us but when that second goal went in all hope was lost. Overall tough it wasn't a bad performance from the team but this league is so tight we could find ourselves playing up in Carlow next season. I hope we have some success with our underage teams this year as there is a good bit of talent in the county at the moment. We need underage success for the future or else we will always be chasing our tails.

He will have bad memories in Nolan Park all right. Last year (or was it 2 years ago), I think he made another mistake when there was a lack of communication between him and Wayne Hutchinson and a few soft goals went in.

quintain

Black Suir wrote: »

I know he is a good player, but think the management have to look at Pauric Mahony's roll in the team. I dont think we can have him on the field just to hit frees. His score rate from open play is very poor. I would be thinking of bringing in Maurice Shanahan for him the next day. He can strike a free and is also able to score from play.

There seem to be a few that think O'Keeffe should also be looked at. I think he is grand in goal, chopping and changing a goal keeper can seriously dent his confidence. However, If i was Michael Ryan or one of the selectors, I would be telling him to put the puckouts down on top of the head of Seamus Prendergast or inside the half forward line. This short puck out is dangerous. I have felt with a while that some team was going to get punished. What a pity it was Waterford today.

I agree, can't Jake Dillon take frees as well ? No disrespect intended to any player but I'm not seeing how Pauric is starting on that team at the moment.

I couldn't understand why the goalie was so nervous with the puckouts. At one stage he had Prendergast, dillon and Moran in one area of the pitch and he put a short puckout to his full back line and then they had to try to move the ball on under serious pressure from Kilkenny. It all looked very messy to me

Formosa

Mountainlad wrote: »

Terrible thing to say about such a promising young keeper. The first goal was a stupid mistake but like he's young and learning and had a few brilliant puck outs, and in fairness he dealt very well with having to clear a few ball under pressure from hand passes he received back to him.


Kilkenny deserved to win, they destroyed us in the last 20 minutes. Our forwards saw nothing in that time, there was no space created and no threat. We didn't cast a human shadow over the goalposts all game. In the first half we had 8 points from play, a lot of them were from inside our own half which was good to see us utilizing the strength of having big hitters but given what was happening win the ball went into the full forward line it seemed inevitable that Kilkenny were going to win second half with the wind behind them.

The backs were good by and large, but Kilkenny somehow managed to create a lot of space particularly at the end, and they would have had a few more goals if the weather had been dry. I thought Brick was superb, and that Shane Sully was very good first half. Brian O Halloran had another very good game and the only forward who was ever present. Seamus tired towards the end, I think himself and Maurice should have been switched when Shane Walsh came off. Paudie Prender did well for a part of the matcg, but we were killed in midfield in the final quarter but matter weren't helped by some members of the half forward line not tracking back well enough.

On a side note, and while I don't feel it had a huge bearing on the result I have to say it's disappointing how hard it is to win a free against Kilkenny in contrast to them winning them. I know this won't sit well with the Kilkenny folk that will no doubt read this, but I felt there was plenty of instances where the man was fouled but nothing was given. They seem to crowd around you and then grab the arm, so that the ref's view is obstructed. I saw it in the second half that one was given where Shane Sully took 5 steps and then cleverly the Kilkenny player grabbed his arm to prevent him placing the ball on his hurley but didn't hold on too long in an attempt to get a free for over carrying, but it was copped that time. Of course, behind me I could hear people bemoaning the free being given and therein lies part of the problem. The ref seemed afraid almost to give frees for fear of how the crowd might react. Typically enough, Aylward or Hogan was penalized in the corner in the second half when they should have been awarded a free in which caused pandemonium in the stand as a chorus of boos reigned down on the ref and then when Fives fouled a few minutes later and they got a free there was an ironic cheer as if Kilkenny had been finding it impossible to get frees

On an similar note, referees are handing out cards like confetti at the moment. Sexton was a joke yesterday in the club final, and a few stupid cards today as well. Can't understand how Seamus got a yellow, and Daniels was hard done by as well which probably didn't help him afterwards because he had to try and be careful and Aylward really dominated after that, even if he was probably getting the better of him anyway.

I wouldn't read too much into the display (which was good for most of the first half and part of the second), it's a league game. We just have to move on and pick up the points elsewhere.

Well I'm a Kilkenny man and I agree with you, I felt that McGrath was very hard on Waterford in that he could have given them a lot more frees, KK seemed to get away with a lot of fouling, particularly in the first half.
I made this point to my father after and he disagreed, citing the free out blown against Fennelly in the second half, when the crowd went crazy (I could see that well enough to make a call on it one war or the other)...but that was just one incident where on the face of it KK were hard done by,in the main I thought we got most of the calls, and obviously Waterford were too outm=numbered in the stands to be heard on this.

However, WD were the architects of their own downfall with the obsession with short puckouts, several times it too 3 or 4 "plays" to land the ball down to ye're half forward line when the goalie would have pucked it as far himself.

From A KK perspective, very good showing from Lester Ryan (again) and Aylward is a right livewire, albeit very inexperienced. If the two of these come through, it will have been a productive league once the big guns come back. We also saw, not that we needed reminding, that the Mark Bergins & Matt Ruths (big favourite of Codys for obvious reasons) just aren't up to it.

Mountainlad

Formosa wrote: »

Well I'm a Kilkenny man and I agree with you, I felt that McGrath was very hard on Waterford in that he could have given them a lot more frees, KK seemed to get away with a lot of fouling, particularly in the first half.
I made this point to my father after and he disagreed, citing the free out blown against Fennelly in the second half, when the crowd went crazy (I could see that well enough to make a call on it one war or the other)...but that was just one incident where on the face of it KK were hard done by,in the main I thought we got most of the calls, and obviously Waterford were too outm=numbered in the stands to be heard on this.

However, WD were the architects of their own downfall with the obsession with short puckouts, several times it too 3 or 4 "plays" to land the ball down to ye're half forward line when the goalie would have pucked it as far himself.

From A KK perspective, very good showing from Lester Ryan (again) and Aylward is a right livewire, albeit very inexperienced. If the two of these come through, it will have been a productive league once the big guns come back. We also saw, not that we needed reminding, that the Mark Bergins & Matt Ruths (big favourite of Codys for obvious reasons) just aren't up to it.

I hope I didn't come across as overly critical of the Kilkenny public and fairplay on your assessment, you wouldn't let bias cloud your judgement unlike myself.

On the short puckouts, I can see the point in not pucking the ball straight down on top of a half back line with Hogan and particularly Tommy Walsh in it. We only have one ball winner there in Seamus Prender, so it wasn't hard for them to double up on him.

I would say though that when the conditions deteriorated in the second half we should have used the short puckout sparingly because it could easily lead to a disaster as controlling the ball first time becomes more difficult. The opposite seemed to happen however, as we used it very frequently in the second half. It was a good strategy first half because it meant we good use out big hitters to either bypass the half back line or go for their own scores, but once things changed and we were against the wind there was no alteration. Any game plan must be adaptable and ours was not today.

robopaddy

anyone that has monitored okeeffes progress from underage level will tell you that hes always been prone to some daft decision making and unfortunately the bad habits seemed to have followed him right through to adult level. not a good sign. i see people saying he shouldnt be dropped as it would knock his confidence but i wouldnt be as sure. i think the lad needs a real kick in the backside at this stage. hes either up to it or hes not and we cant sit around watching him making these gaffes while we wait gor him to reach his potential.

ManFromCheese

willietherock wrote: »

Paudie Pendergast looked good

strange how we have lads on our starting team that cannot make their college fitzgibbon teams, hes a handy hurler alright at club level, but it wouldnt happen in kk, tipp, galway or cork for example. fitzgibbon is as close to intercounty senior hurling that you'll get and really lads need to be making their college teams if they are to be considered for the county senior panel, nevermind starting 15.

Local_Chap

ManFromCheese wrote: »

strange how we have lads on our starting team that cannot make their college fitzgibbon teams, hes a handy hurler alright at club level, but it wouldnt happen in kk, tipp, galway or cork for example. fitzgibbon is as close to intercounty senior hurling that you'll get and really lads need to be making their college teams if they are to be considered for the county senior panel, nevermind starting 15.

Just on that point,was Killean Fitzgerrald starting for Mary I or is he finished college?

ManFromCheese

Local_Chap wrote: »

Just on that point,was Killean Fitzgerrald starting for Mary I or is he finished college?

he started the semi final v WIT but i think was dropped for the final when Mary I started Conor Cooney who hadnt played the semi due to st thomas commitments.

Giveitfong

For all Kilkenny’s domination of the last quarter of this game, were it not for Stephen O’Keefe gifting them two goals Waterford could well have won. This is the third game in a row in which O’Keeffe has made ridiculous errors and you can’t have that at this level.


I can understand why Waterford made a lot of use of the short puckout in the second half when they were playing against the strong wind and were unable to win any possession in the half forward line. However, short puckouts made no sense in the first half when Waterford had the wind at their back.


While we should give great credit to the selectors for the great spirit being displayed by the players, and their attempts to play constructive hurling with good passing movements, some of the tactical aspects are baffling. Last week we had only two players in the full forward line when playing with a gale force wind.



Today, O’Keeffe in the first half kept playing low-trajectory puckouts looking mainly for Seamus Prendergast in the half-forward line.



Unfortunately Seamus was not nearly as sharp as he was last week. Not once did O’Keeffe try a high-trajectory puckout which would have got the ball beyond the half forward line and into the space betweeh the half forwards and full forwards which might have given Brian O’Sullivan in particular some chance of getting possession.


It was also hard to understand why Maurice Shanahan was placed at full forward when he came on when we were unable to gain any possession in the half forward line. That made no sense at all.


On the positive side, once again I thought the defence played very well as a unit. While Brick was our man of the match, I thought Shane Fives was terrific and once again Liam Lawlor played very well at full back. While Jamie Nagle was unable to compete with Eoin Larkin in the air in the first half, overall he played very well.



It took Paudie Prendergast a while to get going but he had a great second quarter and while he disappeared again in the third quarter he came back into it when moved to wing back late in the game. On the question of his not getting into the UCC Fitzgibbon Cup team, it has to be acknowledged that UCC had a really strong half back line this year. Paudie was their best player at Freshers level last year and is still only a second year player.



I think Brian O’Halloran is being a bit over-hyped at the moment. He did have a very good game against Clare in good playing conditions, but was largely anonymous for Mary Immaculate College in the Fitzgibbon Cup, played very little ball against Cork and today, apart from one lovely point, he rarely threatened the Kilkenny defence. However, I expect a big improvement from him when the sod firms up.


At the moment, we are a bit lightweight up front, especially with Pauric Mahony making very little contribution from general play (apart from his tendency to miss handy frees at crucial stages). Perhaps the selectors might consider throwing Cormac Heffernan in the next day – he scored two very good goals today in the under-21 challenge which followed the senior game.

Giveitfong

Under 21 challenge: Kilkenny 4-28 Waterford 3-17

Waterford got off to a great start in this challenge which followed the senior game in Nowlan Park today, with full forward Cormac Heffernan twice finishing decisively to the net in the first two minutes following excellent approach play by the Waterford forwards.

Waterford dominated the first 20 minutes of the game with De La Salle’s Shane McNulty giving a master class at centre back, ably abetted by his wing backs Ray Barry (who came on as a late sub in the senior game) and Shane (I think) Roche of Shamrocks. In midfield, Waterford were also well on top with Dunhill’s Eamon Murphy and Mount Sion’s Stephen Roche playing a lot of ball. However, over-elaboration among the forwards meant that a lot of good possession was wasted.

Kilkenny eventually got to grips with the game and, with wind assistance, sent over a flurry of points while they also got through for a couple of goals and also produced a couple of great saves by Seanie Barry in the Waterford goal. Eamon Murphy shipped an injury when bravely trying to set up a goal chance for Waterford and was still hanging around the Kilkenny goal area when he got at the end of another good Waterford attacking movement to bag his team’s third goal. However, he then went off which considerably weakened the Waterford team.

At half time Kilkenny led by something like 2-13 to 3-4. With the wind at their backs in the second half, we expected Waterford to get back into contention, but Kilkenny greatly upped their game and their ability to win ball in the air in the middle third led to a procession of points and two further goals.

With both teams making lots of substitutions the game became very loose and disorganised. Waterford kept battling away with Gavin O’Brien in particular impressing with a series of fine points. He really should be given a run at midfield or in the half forwards for the seniors. Overall, Waterford’s best player was Ray Barry who gave a strong performance right through at right half back.

An interesting feature of the team was the placing of Kilrossanty’s Kieran Power, a member of last year’s Dungarvan Colleges Harty Cup winning team, at full back where he performed very creditably indeed.

Speaking of which, I believe that Dungarvan Colleges’s Hogan Cup semi-final against St Kieran’s of Kilkenny will be played next Saturday in Thurles as part of a double bill, with Kilkenny CBS playing against Mercy Colleges of Galway in the other semi-final. Earlier today Waterford beat Kilkenny in a minor challenge, but it is noteworthy that while the Dungarvan Colleges contingent played for Waterford, no players from St Kieran’s or Kilkenny CBS played for the Cats. I believe that all the Dungarvan players got through the game without injury.

I don’t know how many first team players were missing from the Kilkenny Under 21 team today, but Waterford were missing Darragh Fives, JakeDillon, Pauric Mahony, Jamie Barron, Paudie Prendergast and Eoin Madigan. I don’t know if Barry Coughlan and Killian Fitzgerald (both senior subs today) are under 21.

Other players who figured at some stage on the Waterford team were Donie Breathnach (An Rinn), Shane (I think) Ryan (Fourmilewater), Barry O’Sullivan (Ballygunner), Kieran Bennett (Ballysaggart), Colin Walsh (Ballinameela) and Jim Power (Butlerstown). There were a couple of others whose names I can’t remember.