Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

cleaboy boy

Former Waterford hurler Paul Flynn has acknowledged Waterford lost respect because of their actions just before the start and in the early stages of the 2008 All-Ireland hurling final against Kilkenny.

makes his comments in the latest 'Laochra Gael' programme which will be broadcast on TG4 tomorrow night.

Flynn, who came on as a sub, reflected on attempts by Waterford players to intimidate Kilkenny which clearly backfired. "I think we lost a bit of respect. There's no question that the first five minutes of that All-Ireland don't figure as one of our finest achievements."

Flynn also raised questions about the preparations for that game – a series of team-building activities they engaged in – a stark contrast from what Kilkenny were doing.

"The hurling aspect of the All-Ireland final was gone," he recalled. "We were climbing, canoeing, jumping off the pier in Carlingford. Meanwhile, Kilkenny were playing six 50-minute matches of hard hurling."

Flynn wonders if Waterford might have been better off not getting to the 2008 final and he admits it was "difficult" to prepare for the game knowing he had no chance of playing.

"To know that you weren't going to be picked no matter what happened is difficult".

Flynn said the appointment of Davy Fitzgerald as manager went ahead without any influence from the players.

Flynn also believes Waterford blew arguably their best chance to win an All-Ireland title in 2007 when they lost the semi-final to Limerick and criticised the substitution of John Mullane.

"I knew any chance of me influencing the game was gone, but taking off John as well was probably a bad idea," he said.

He considered retirement after that game, but felt Waterford were the second best team in the game at that time and it influenced his thinking

Deskjockey

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Former Waterford hurler Paul Flynn has acknowledged Waterford lost respect because of their actions just before the start and in the early stages of the 2008 All-Ireland hurling final against Kilkenny.

makes his comments in the latest 'Laochra Gael' programme which will be broadcast on TG4 tomorrow night.

Flynn, who came on as a sub, reflected on attempts by Waterford players to intimidate Kilkenny which clearly backfired. "I think we lost a bit of respect. There's no question that the first five minutes of that All-Ireland don't figure as one of our finest achievements."

Flynn also raised questions about the preparations for that game – a series of team-building activities they engaged in – a stark contrast from what Kilkenny were doing.

"The hurling aspect of the All-Ireland final was gone," he recalled. "We were climbing, canoeing, jumping off the pier in Carlingford. Meanwhile, Kilkenny were playing six 50-minute matches of hard hurling."

Flynn wonders if Waterford might have been better off not getting to the 2008 final and he admits it was "difficult" to prepare for the game knowing he had no chance of playing.

"To know that you weren't going to be picked no matter what happened is difficult".

Flynn said the appointment of Davy Fitzgerald as manager went ahead without any influence from the players.

Flynn also believes Waterford blew arguably their best chance to win an All-Ireland title in 2007 when they lost the semi-final to Limerick and criticised the substitution of John Mullane.

"I knew any chance of me influencing the game was gone, but taking off John as well was probably a bad idea," he said.

He considered retirement after that game, but felt Waterford were the second best team in the game at that time and it influenced his thinking

Looking forward to this

Straight Talker

dzilla wrote: »

Your a subtle troll.

I was only offering an opinion about these records.I think if the tribesmen are ever good enough to beat Waterford then they will beat them however they have failed dismally to do that in championship hurling.I think for the vast majority of the meetings Galway just weren't good enough to beat Waterford.I don't think it has anything to do with hoodoos or voodoo dolls.You can call me what you want but i don't have to prove how much i like Waterford to anyone.If i caused offense i apologise and i wish Waterford GAA all the best against the other 30 counties outside of Cork.

@Paddy you missed my point about the 2010 all ireland final.What have us Cork football fans got to boast about?2 all irelands in 20 years for a county of our size.I was just making the point that Downs record of never losing an all ireland final had nothing to do with hoodoos.They met a team that were good enough to beat them and they lost.

O Riain

Whats the story with Connors lads will he be back the weekend? Maurice should be in decent form now on sunday. Any other injuries at all?

robopaddy

Straight Talker wrote: »

@Paddy you missed my point about the 2010 all ireland final.What have us Cork football fans got to boast about?2 all irelands in 20 years for a county of our size.I was just making the point that Downs record of never losing an all ireland final had nothing to do with hoodoos.They met a team that were good enough to beat them and they lost.

I didnt miss your point i just think you dont have one. you were basically saying that everyone had Cork written off because down had never beaten in an all-ireland. and cork overcame all the odds and all the begrudgers to claim glory.... that wasn't the story at all. It was a known fact that Down had never lost an All Ireland Final it was always going to be mentioned as it was quiet a record they had been in 4 or 5 all the same. Of course no clear thinking sportsman will think it was ever going to have any bearing and I dont know of anyone who gave them much of a chance of beating ye.

I just think it was a poor example to use thats all

Mountainlad

O Riain wrote: »

Whats the story with Connors lads will he be back the weekend? Maurice should be in decent form now on sunday. Any other injuries at all?

I would be very surprised to see Connors back. Shane Walsh is unlikely to start either, not sure whether he'll feature. Hopefully Darragh Fives is given a start on Sunday.

Straight Talker

robopaddy wrote: »

I didnt miss your point i just think you dont have one. you were basically saying that everyone had Cork written off because down had never beaten in an all-ireland. and cork overcame all the odds and all the begrudgers to claim glory.... that wasn't the story at all. It was a known fact that Down had never lost an All Ireland Final it was always going to be mentioned as it was quiet a record they had been in 4 or 5 all the same. Of course no clear thinking sportsman will think it was ever going to have any bearing and I dont know of anyone who gave them much of a chance of beating ye.

I just think it was a poor example to use thats all

Right so well let's look at it this way.Galway were a joke when they were in the munster championship everyone used to beat them for fun.In 1998 ye were by far the better team,in 06 ye were the better team and ye were the better team in 2009 and 2011.I know Galway were winning with a few minutes to go in the 09 clash but it's all about who's ahead at the final whistle and that was Waterford yet again.If Galway are good enough to beat Waterford then they will beat them.I felt that they were good enough last year but we'll never know the answer to that.I don't think there's magic powers at force here it's just a case that Galway just haven't been good enough in any of those matches.

dzilla

Straight Talker wrote: »

I was only offering an opinion about these records.I think if the tribesmen are ever good enough to beat Waterford then they will beat them however they have failed dismally to do that in championship hurling.I think for the vast majority of the meetings Galway just weren't good enough to beat Waterford.I don't think it has anything to do with hoodoos or voodoo dolls.You can call me what you want but i don't have to prove how much i like Waterford to anyone.If i caused offense i apologise and i wish Waterford GAA all the best against the other 30 counties outside of Cork.

@Paddy you missed my point about the 2010 all ireland final.What have us Cork football fans got to boast about?2 all irelands in 20 years for a county of our size.I was just making the point that Downs record of never losing an all ireland final had nothing to do with hoodoos.They met a team that were good enough to beat them and they lost.

Stick your opinion

Straight Talker

dzilla wrote: »

Stick your opinion

Same to you it's not as if i have a case to answer to you anyway.You can either agree with a point or debate a point or you can get stuffed.Either option is okay with me.

Sidenote Isn't it funny that i am being personally abused by a man who accused me of being a troll.I suppose the irony is lost on such people.I never once made a personal remark about any poster so i guess your the troll after all.

Straight Talker

Im thinking that Waterford could be a good bet to win the league.It would be some achievement if Michael Ryan land's a league title considering the unnecessary pressure the man's been put under which has been unwarranted imo.If you look at last year Waterford conceded a few soft goals in the munster final and missed a few chances.The Cork match could have went either way just like most of the recent Cork v Waterford championship matches.Cork just got a surge of momentum at the end and seemed to be a bit more fitter and pacier as well and JBM possibly had a stronger subs bench.It wasn't Michael Ryans fault that Shane Walsh went off injured or that Eoin McGrath didn't catch that ball near the end.If Eoin caught that ball,scored a goal and if Waterford went on to beat Galway the following week Michael would have been hailed as the second coming of Jesus!It's a fine margin between being seen as a hero by people or the most useless bstard that ever lived.

Hammer Archer

dzilla, if you can't refute someone's opinion in a civilised way, then please do not post. Consider this a warning.

robopaddy

Straight Talker wrote: »

Im thinking that Waterford could be a good bet to win the league.It would be some achievement if Michael Ryan land's a league title considering the unnecessary pressure the man's been put under which has been unwarranted imo.If you look at last year Waterford conceded a few soft goals in the munster final and missed a few chances.The Cork match could have went either way just like most of the recent Cork v Waterford matches.Cork just got a surge of momentum at the end and seemed to be a bit more fitter and pacier as well and JBM possibly had a stronger subs bench.It wasn't Michael Ryans fault that Shane Walsh went off injured or that Eoin McGrath didn't catch that ball near the end.If Eoin caught that ball,scored a goal and if Waterford went on to beat Galway the following week Michael would have been hailed as the second coming of Jesus!It's a fine margin between being seen as a hero by people or the most useless bstard that ever lived.

ur right in a lot of what u say but definetly the decisions on the line didnt help matters. no it wasnt ryans fault dat mcgrath dropped the ball but it was his call to bring him on in the first place. he brought him and casey on when there were clearly better options on the bench. these were lads who had been given plenty chances before and had been shown to come up short. the casey move was particularly bizare considering he had hardly featured all year and many people had forgotten he was even on the panel. anyway thats done snd dusted youd have to give management the benefit of the doubt as it was their first season in charge and the early indications this year is that they have learned from their mistakes.
i hear wat u say regarding the league its wide open for a team like waterford this year. my dark horses would be limerick i think they will be a surprise package this year.
where i think waterford will ultimately fall short however is not enough scoring forwards. while the tipp win was brilliant if u look at it jamie barrons point with 3 mins left was our first score from play in the second half and it ultimately took a wing back to come up and fire over the winner. while we have some nice young forwards coming through we are still a bit raw and lightweight. 2 big players for us this year will be brick and moran and god help us if one of them gets injured.

alllcounty

robopaddy wrote: »

ur right in a lot of what u say but definetly the decisions on the line didnt help matters. no it wasnt ryans fault dat mcgrath dropped the ball but it was his call to bring him on in the first place. he brought him and casey on when there were clearly better options on the bench. these were lads who had been given plenty chances before and had been shown to come up short. the casey move was particularly bizare considering he had hardly featured all year and many people had forgotten he was even on the panel. anyway thats done snd dusted youd have to give management the benefit of the doubt as it was their first season in charge and the early indications this year is that they have learned from their mistakes.
i hear wat u say regarding the league its wide open for a team like waterford this year. my dark horses would be limerick i think they will be a surprise package this year.
where i think waterford will ultimately fall short however is not enough scoring forwards. while the tipp win was brilliant if u look at it jamie barrons point with 3 mins left was our first score from play in the second half and it ultimately took a wing back to come up and fire over the winner. while we have some nice young forwards coming through we are still a bit raw and lightweight. 2 big players for us this year will be brick and moran and god help us if one of them gets injured.

That's what cost us last year against Cork. You have to remember we didn't have Dillon, O'Halloran, J Barron or B O'Sullivan on the line last year and so options were limited. It might be another year or two before we have the same options of Kilkenny and Tipperary in the forwards to go and challenge for an all ireland. Winning against Galway on sunday is the only objective for the next 4 days. Lose and some other game ends in a draw then a relegation play off is back on the table.

cleaboy boy

Below is a response I received from RTE regarding last Sunday night's lack of hurling coverage.


Rory O’Neill is my name.
I’m the Programme Editor for League Sunday.

It’s incumbent upon me to firstly point out a few things.

RTE do not have the rights to the league.
Our rights entitle us to show highlights only.

Unfortunately we do not have the resources at THIS TIME of the year to cover everything.
Over the weekend there was 34 matches in hurling and football in the Allianz Leagues.

It's simply not realistic to think ANY broadcaster could achieve that level of coverage.
So someone will always be left out.


As a result we have to pick the games we CAN cover bearing in mind a number of criteria

- 1. What we think the viewer will want to see
- 2. Logistics AND cost in getting the footage back to base, edited and turned around for an 8pm slot.

Walsh Park in Waterford is an especially difficult place and presents a special set of problems with the second point.


We made a valiant effort to get the Galway V Cork match turned around in time but failed.
For that I have already issued an apology.
The report is now online if you want to have a look.
http://www.rte.ie/sport/player/809/378272/



We have very limited budgets, very limited time and very limited resources at this time of the year and have to pick and choose carefully what we do.

This week our entire programme will be devoted to hurling and will include action from all three crunch Division 1A matches.
And while I understand your frustrations all I can do is assure you we are doing our level best with the limited budgets available.

Thanks
Rory O’Neill
Series Editor
League Sunday

fricatus

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Below is a response I received from RTE regarding last Sunday night's lack of hurling coverage.
...

Fair play anyway, at least he came back to you...

Deskjockey

Fairly reasonable answer.

seananigans

Given tommorrows a bank holiday,is the team announced tonight or tommorrow?

mccarthy37

Money is tight everywhere but reading the papers this morning about the huge salaries RTE are paying their top stars it looks like they are sacrificing their programe output to meet these wages does that make sense. How did TG4 manage a match report for GAA beo and very few people even noticed their presence there. The letter of explanation from RTE looks like they think Waterford is outer Mongolia. It looks like the NHL is not very high on their priority sporting list. TG4 blew that explanation out of the water.
Best of luck to all of the team on Sunday Galway are coming down here desperate for a win where as a draw will do us but another win would make this a very successful league campaign.

tonc76

Deskjockey wrote: »

What is the story on Tony Browne. Why won't he come out to say he will or won't make himself available this year. He is a legend and owes Waterford hurling absolutely nothing but shouldn't he come out and confirm one way or the other about this year? Looking at how strong we have looked 2-9 in the league so far you'd imagine opportunities will be limited for him this year....
Time waits for no man and all that.

.....

Deskjockey

tonc76 wrote: »

.....

Concise, to the point, clear, well argued, I like it












Eh.... What!?

robopaddy

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Money is tight everywhere but reading the papers this morning about the huge salaries RTE are paying their top stars it looks like they are sacrificing their programe output to meet these wages does that make sense. How did TG4 manage a match report for GAA beo and very few people even noticed their presence there. The letter of explanation from RTE looks like they think Waterford is outer Mongolia. It looks like the NHL is not very high on their priority sporting list. TG4 blew that explanation out of the water.
Best of luck to all of the team on Sunday Galway are coming down here desperate for a win where as a draw will do us but another win would make this a very successful league campaign.

here here. marian finucane is paid 450k a year to talk absolute dog manure for abt 3 hrs a week

seananigans

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Money is tight everywhere but reading the papers this morning about the huge salaries RTE are paying their top stars it looks like they are sacrificing their programe output to meet these wages does that make sense. How did TG4 manage a match report for GAA beo and very few people even noticed their presence there. The letter of explanation from RTE looks like they think Waterford is outer Mongolia. It looks like the NHL is not very high on their priority sporting list. TG4 blew that explanation out of the water.
Best of luck to all of the team on Sunday Galway are coming down here desperate for a win where as a draw will do us but another win would make this a very successful league campaign.

Waterford has a studio , the footage can be digitised and transmitted , in addition can't take anymore than 110 minutes to get to donnybrook on a sunday with the minimal traffic

seananigans

I 'd love to see Tony Browne state he is to retire,but only at a future date.

Would hate him to have his last game without us knowing it is his last...

tonc76

Deskjockey wrote: »

Concise, to the point, clear, well argued, I like it

Eh.... What!?

"He is a legend and owes Waterford hurling absolutely nothing" .... however he does owe you an answer to whether he's retiring or not????

seananigans

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/we-couldnt-care-less-what-people-think-of-us-29159959.html

What ye reckon ?

How great would it be to win silverware with a Waterford manager in tow .

on a side note,Waterford 40/1 to win the AI .om not a betting man but surely that's worth a punt

Professey Chin

Laochra Gael on TG4 about Paul Flynn starting now

boodiebhoy

alllcounty wrote: »

That's what cost us last year against Cork. You have to remember we didn't have Dillon, O'Halloran, J Barron or B O'Sullivan on the line last year and so options were limited. It might be another year or two before we have the same options of Kilkenny and Tipperary in the forwards to go and challenge for an all ireland. Winning against Galway on sunday is the only objective for the next 4 days. Lose and some other game ends in a draw then a relegation play off is back on the table.

Will someone clarify, do both of the other games have to end in draws before we can end up in a relegation playoff?

Straight Talker

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Money is tight everywhere but reading the papers this morning about the huge salaries RTE are paying their top stars it looks like they are sacrificing their programe output to meet these wages does that make sense. How did TG4 manage a match report for GAA beo and very few people even noticed their presence there. The letter of explanation from RTE looks like they think Waterford is outer Mongolia. It looks like the NHL is not very high on their priority sporting list. TG4 blew that explanation out of the water.
Best of luck to all of the team on Sunday Galway are coming down here desperate for a win where as a draw will do us but another win would make this a very successful league campaign.

I'll tell you what the problem is with RTE Ryle Nugent the head of the sports programming department is the problem.The man is biased towards Rugby at the expense of the GAA programming.

KevIRL

boodiebhoy wrote: »

Will someone clarify, do both of the other games have to end in draws before we can end up in a relegation playoff?

No, just 1. If we lose by more than 3 points and there is1 draw we end up in the playoff.

If both end up level and we lose then all six teams would end on 5pts,which would be mental. We would be in the play off though

Positive side up tho, we'll top the table. Believe!

PTH2009

have a bad feeling about this match. The nerves will be worse than championship time lol

KevIRL

PTH2009 wrote: »

have a bad feeling about this match.

No surprise there anyway

Deise_2012

PTH2009 wrote: »

have a bad feeling about this match. The nerves will be worse than championship time lol

You had them to be relegated before a ball was thrown in, you took back what you said after they beat tipperary last week then. Do you have any bit of optimism for this team lol?

seananigans

PTH2009 wrote: »

have a bad feeling about this match. The nerves will be worse than championship time lol

I get worried when we're tipped to win, or when someone plays don't stop believing

Deise_2012

seananigans wrote: »

I get worried when we're tipped to win, or when someone plays don't stop believing

Galway are favourites

seananigans

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Galway are favourites

good stuff,tis in the bag so (on a side note ,PP give us +1)

Deise_2012

can you see 1 of the corner backs getting dropped for noel connors?

Deskjockey

tonc76 wrote: »

"He is a legend and owes Waterford hurling absolutely nothing" .... however he does owe you an answer to whether he's retiring or not????

I just think its been going on now for months now, and the longer it goes on the more I wonder why doesn't he make a decision and is there something more to it than Tony not being able to make up his mind. We'll know soon enough I suppose.

But yeah he does owe me an answer personally.

seananigans

Deskjockey wrote: »

I just think its been going on now for months now, and the longer it goes on the more I wonder why doesn't he make a decision and is there something more to it than Tony not being able to make up his mind. We'll know soon enough I suppose.

But yeah he does owe me an answer personally.

~As Marty Morrisey said, and i paraphrase "heres a man who will never have to buy a pint in Waterford"

All you owe him is the honour of making sure he never pays for a pint in a pub you happen to be in

liogairmhordain

there might be white smoke on the tony browne front
judging by the very quick look at the front page of tomorrow's independent
that we got at the end of tonight with vincent browne

deiseach

RTÉ think we'll win on Sunday. We're screwed.

robopaddy

Just watched Paul Flynn on Laochra Gaol. Great feature so many memories came flooding back. What an absolutely gifted hurler he was.

His take on the AI hurling final 08 very interesting, extremely frank and honest interview.

alllcounty

According to the Irish Independent Tony Browne will make a return to the panel as early as next week. It would be great to have him back. With Darragh Fives moved to midfield to plug gaps we are short half backs on the panel at the moment and he may be very useful if anything were to happen the brick or moran throughout the year.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/veteran-browne-nearing-return-to-waterford-fold-29162547.html

KevIRL

Galway not calling up the St Thomas players who were in club final. That is a positive IMO. Just need to stop the Joe show now.....

mccarthy37

KevIRL wrote: »

Galway not calling up the St Thomas players who were in club final. That is a positive IMO. Just need to stop the Joe show now.....

I wouldn't bank on that as Anthony Cunigham will surly have something up his sleeve and Scully will be well aware of this. This should be a great game hope the weather thaws out a bit as Walsh park can be like a fridge.
Tony Browne what can we say I think this man would go on and play for the rest of his life if he was able. Hope he doesn't regret coming back this year wouldn't it be lovely if the team won some silverware for him and for all the panel who are surprising a lot of people in and out of the county so far this season. Hope they can keep the graph in the upward curve this weekend. Looking at where they are now and how well they have done so far would have been the stuff of dreams only a few week's ago.

noiniho

Straight Talker wrote: »

I'll tell you what the problem is with RTE Ryle Nugent the head of the sports programming department is the problem.The man is biased towards Rugby at the expense of the GAA programming.

Nail on the head...

Mountainlad

KevIRL wrote: »

Galway not calling up the St Thomas players who were in club final. That is a positive IMO. Just need to stop the Joe show now.....

Sure they were celebrating for at least a week, they won't be as ready for it as some of the others would be. And while the likes of David Burke, Conor Cooney, James Regan and Bernard Burke would all be welcome additions to their time I have to say the club final was poor fare (conditions didn't help of course) and I dunno would they be a bit shocked coming back into the Inter-County team at crunch team like this. The league is being played at a much higher standard than it was 2 or 3 years ago.

fricatus

Mountainlad wrote: »

The league is being played at a much higher standard than it was 2 or 3 years ago.

I see a number of the counties were giving out about the league structure, and how thin a difference there is between the top and the bottom teams, but I think it's had the effect of making it more competitive, like you say.

solarith

fricatus wrote: »

I see a number of the counties were giving out about the league structure, and how thin a difference there is between the top and the bottom teams, but I think it's had the effect of making it more competitive, like you say.

Yep, much more exciting for supporters too. No way I would have cared league games 3 or 4 years ago, mad for them now.

seananigans

solarith wrote: »

Yep, much more exciting for supporters too. No way I would have cared league games 3 or 4 years ago, mad for them now.

I can see an argument to increase to 7, to stop yo-yoing but no reason to change it until it happens.

Hopefully with all the teams having the same preparations we will see some open championships in the next 5 years

seananigans

Very solid, looking forward to this now ,as start of season saying 1- 9 were solid ,I think we can extend to 11 or even 12 now

1. Ian O’Regan Mount Sion
2. Shane Fives Carrigtwohill
3. Liam Lawlor Fourmilewater
4. Stephen Daniels De La Salle
5. Jamie Nagle Dungarvan
6. Michael Walsh Stradbally
7 Darragh Fives Tourin
8. Shane O’Sullivan Ballygunner
9. Kevin Moran (CAPT.) De La Salle
10. Maurice Shanahan Lismore
11. Seamus Prendergast Ardmore
12. Brian O’Halloran Clashmore/Kinsalebeg
13 Ray Barry Lismore
14. Jake Dillon De La Salle
15. Jamie Barron Fourmilewater