Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

seananigans

I always get worried when we're supposed to win a game

poolboy

Mountainlad wrote: »

The only thing I'd change about the draw is that we'd be at home. By the way, I know it's not designed to be that way, but we've awful hard luck with being drawn away. The footballers haven't had a home qualifier since 2006 at least.

In 2005, we had two away games (the Offaly game was in Carlow for the purposes of having a double header with the Offaly and Carlow footballers.)

2006 was the same, although going to Mullingar and Portlaoise was probably preferable to going to Salthill and having the other two games at home.

2008 was maybe the only one we were fortunate in that the only hoe and away game we managed to avoid playing going to Belfast.

Still though, it seems we are drawn away in both codes on pretty much every occasion we can be!!

Offaly were away to cork last two years. Due a bit of luck to.

robopaddy

Our minors were annhialated by kk in a challenge game tonite. Im hopin we were missing a good lot due to leaving cert and kk werent. Furthermore cork minors beat dublin 4-22 to 0-14 so manfromcheese and co. Assessment that we'll p**s all over cork in the semi final might be just slightly wide of the mark

Mountainlad

poolboy wrote: »

Offaly were away to cork last two years. Due a bit of luck to.

Absolutely. I'd hate to see us lose, but certainly wouldn't begrudge them a win.

Just making an observation. There's no basis for complaining in a totally random draw, it's just the way it tends to fall. Hasn't really hampered us in the Hurling, moreso in the football, but it certainly is a factor in this game when looking at yesterday's game.

robopaddy wrote: »

Our minors were annhialated by kk in a challenge game tonite. Im hopin we were missing a good lot due to leaving cert and kk werent. Furthermore cork minors beat dublin 4-22 to 0-14 so manfromcheese and co. Assessment that we'll p**s all over cork in the semi final might be just slightly wide of the mark

No way we'll hammer Cork in their own backyard. That said, I wouldn't be getting overly bothered by challenge matches either. Saw the teams from the last two Waterford played and they were totally different.

ManFromCheese

robopaddy wrote: »

Our minors were annhialated by kk in a challenge game tonite. Im hopin we were missing a good lot due to leaving cert and kk werent. Furthermore cork minors beat dublin 4-22 to 0-14 so manfromcheese and co. Assessment that we'll p**s all over cork in the semi final might be just slightly wide of the mark

show me the post where I said we'd "p**s all over cork"? I said that I expect us to beat them, I still do, I wouldn't read too much into challenge game results, who knows what kind of teams were put out by the 4 teams.

Hslaw

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

A lot of nerves have surfaced since we were drawn against Offaly. The very poor display against Clare is a big worry as the team looked rudderless in that game and if its repeated against The Faithful county our year will be over. We beat Offaly well in a challenge game a few weeks ago so lets see the value of challenge results now. Tullamore is a tough place to come out of with a win but a win we must get to make anything of this year. If the team fade again in the second half well Pat Flanagan's fitness regime will be a complete failure because Clare were the much fitter team the last day. Its all to play for and its going to be one tough game but what else would you want afterall this is championship now its either sink or swim. I wonder who will be the goalie for the next day.

please let it be socky

Cake Man

Offaly away is going to be a serious test for us. If we were at home, I'd be expecting to win but being away and going on the most recent match of both teams, it seems Offaly are in a better position many would think. Wouldn't actually be surprised if they were marginal favourites for the game either.

I wouldn't be hugely worried about their forwards, our defence is decent and we may have Shane Fives back to boost options. It's the forwards I'd be worried about as we seem to be only capable of putting together ~20 points or less on the scoreboard and Offaly have shown they can get goals.

It's hard to know what to think, I'd like to think there's a good performance in us and that the lads will want to make up for a poor showing v Clare.
Offaly also are a bit of an unknown quantity, they usually always have one big game in them a year. Last year they pushed Cork all the way in a qualifier match but just fell short at the end and some may think their big game this year was against KK. I think it may be hard for them to hit the same intensity and heights for us but at the same time they'll know this is a great chance for them to take us.

Looking forward to it though, it really is a sink or swim game. Lose and it'll be our worst season since probably '03 when we were knocked out by an average Wexford side. Win and it will give us a good shout of reaching the 1/4's under the radar. 50:50 game.

gowley

Cake Man wrote: »

Offaly away is going to be a serious test for us. If we were at home, I'd be expecting to win but being away and going on the most recent match of both teams, it seems Offaly are in a better position many would think. Wouldn't actually be surprised if they were marginal favourites for the game either.

I wouldn't be hugely worried about their forwards, our defence is decent and we may have Shane Fives back to boost options. It's the forwards I'd be worried about as we seem to be only capable of putting together ~20 points or less on the scoreboard and Offaly have shown they can get goals.

It's hard to know what to think, I'd like to think there's a good performance in us and that the lads will want to make up for a poor showing v Clare.
Offaly also are a bit of an unknown quantity, they usually always have one big game in them a year. Last year they pushed Cork all the way in a qualifier match but just fell short at the end and some may think their big game this year was against KK. I think it may be hard for them to hit the same intensity and heights for us but at the same time they'll know this is a great chance for them to take us.

Looking forward to it though, it really is a sink or swim game. Lose and it'll be our worst season since probably '03 when we were knocked out by an average Wexford side. Win and it will give us a good shout of reaching the 1/4's under the radar. 50:50 game.

in fairness they scored 4 goals against kilkenny. i would be a bit concerned about that.

Mountainlad

If anyone is wondering how serious the management are taking the game it's worth noting that the rescheduled fixtures of Passage v Dungarvan and Lismore v Ballyduff Upper that were due to be played on Friday night have been postponed again. Only two football games this weekend, both involving clubs that don't have any Waterford Senior Hurlers in their midst.

The Fourmilewater v De La Salle game does go ahead as planned tomorrow night however.

Management are obviously very wary of Offaly. I doubt those games would have been rescheduled if it was Westmeath or London we were facing in the first game.

Mr Tibbs

Not to sure about this but did Offaly ever beat us in championship hurling not that it make's a difference for Saturday week. I don't recall them ever beating us in the championship but then again we never met that much. We came out of the wilderness in 1998 with our first appearence in Croke Park since 1963. Hopefully those dark days will never return.

Giveitfong

As far as I know Waterford have only played Offaly twice in the championship, both times in the qualifiers. The first was in Carlow in 2005 (I think) when Waterford won comfortably and the second in Thurles in 2008 when Waterford were lucky enough to win. Ken McGrath played at full back that day and, if I remember correctly, Jamie Nagle made his debut at midfield and played well. In the other game in Thurles that day, 14-man Cork beat Joe Canning by a point.


The views expressed by some here that Waterford were very poor against Clare and that Clare were the fitter team need some reappraisal. Waterford dominated this game from the 10th to the 45th minute and really should have been out of sight before Clare staged their recovery, assisted in no small way by a couple of handy frees given by the referee and two goals that were fortuitous enough in that there was no build-up play, just that the ball fell nicely to two players who otherwise had little impact on the game. The referee had a major bearing on the game’s outcome, repeatedly failing to give Waterford obvious frees and then giving very dubious frees to Clare.


I think that Waterford’s late collapse was more psychological than anything to do with fitness. Clare got a new surge of energy when the game started going their way while a lot of the Waterford players seemed to throw in the towel. It was a pity to see this, as since Waterford re-emerged as a hurling power in 1998 they have been noted for their fighting spirit and have won countless key games in the closing minutes. Last Sunday week the game was still salvageable up to the last few minutes, but the fight simply wasn’t there.


Finally, one poster here says that Waterford were beaten by an “average” Wexford team in 2003. That Wexford team won the Leinster championship the following year – the last non-Kilkenny team to do so.

Mountainlad

Giveitfong wrote: »

Finally, one poster here says that Waterford were beaten by an “average” Wexford team in 2003. That Wexford team won the Leinster championship the following year – the last non-Kilkenny team to do so.

Agree wholheartedly with thtat. I believe 2003 waas the year they took Cork to a replay in the all ireland semi as well.

Fireball07

Giveitfong wrote: »

Finally, one poster here says that Waterford were beaten by an “average” Wexford team in 2003. That Wexford team won the Leinster championship the following year – the last non-Kilkenny team to do so.

I agree with almost everything you said, but Galway did win Leinster last year. :P

noiniho

Giveitfong wrote: »

The views expressed by some here that Waterford were very poor against Clare and that Clare were the fitter team need some reappraisal. Waterford dominated this game from the 10th to the 45th minute and really should have been out of sight before Clare staged their recovery, assisted in no small way by a couple of handy frees given by the referee and two goals that were fortuitous enough in that there was no build-up play, just that the ball fell nicely to two players who otherwise had little impact on the game. The referee had a major bearing on the game’s outcome, repeatedly failing to give Waterford obvious frees and then giving very dubious frees to Clare.


I think that Waterford’s late collapse was more psychological than anything to do with fitness. Clare got a new surge of energy when the game started going their way while a lot of the Waterford players seemed to throw in the towel. It was a pity to see this, as since Waterford re-emerged as a hurling power in 1998 they have been noted for their fighting spirit and have won countless key games in the closing minutes. Last Sunday week the game was still salvageable up to the last few minutes, but the fight simply wasn’t there.

Totally agree as I stated in my earlier post, a Pat Flanagan team doesnt wilt after 60 minutes due to lack of fitness, that slump was brought about by what was going on between the ears of some players.

As you say that was the real disapointment, and the worry is that coaches like Flanagan wont risk there reputations on us in the future if it is repeated, why would they? Its surprising because we finished strong in some of the league, like the Clare and Tipp games.

hardybuck

In relation to Flanagan, it might be the case that he was ahead of the game when he started work with Kerry in the 00's. It may be that most if not all counties have someone of similar quality working with them now.

deiseach

Giveitfong wrote: »

As far as I know Waterford have only played Offaly twice in the championship, both times in the qualifiers. The first was in Carlow in 2005 (I think) when Waterford won comfortably and the second in Thurles in 2008 when Waterford were lucky enough to win. Ken McGrath played at full back that day and, if I remember correctly, Jamie Nagle made his debut at midfield and played well. In the other game in Thurles that day, 14-man Cork beat Joe Canning by a point.

You can laugh at Galway that day (and you will) but Offaly were beaten by Eoin Kelly who scored 2-13 of our 2-18. I think we should bring him back *ducks for cover*

Baby4

This post has been deleted.

noiniho

hardybuck wrote: »

In relation to Flanagan, it might be the case that he was ahead of the game when he started work with Kerry in the 00's. It may be that most if not all counties have someone of similar quality working with them now.

I agree that most counties will have good physical trainers, and Waterford were always very well conditioned under Davy Fitz so you would expect the same from his Clare team, But Flanagan is coming from football background, in my experience footballers are actually fitter then Hurlers they need to carry the ball alot more, they take more contact in collisons and like a half back / half forward in football covers way more ground then someone playing in those lines in hurling as in hurling the ball obviously does alot more of the work and can travel almost the length of the field.

So to suggest that Flanagan, who was the physical trainer who helped Kerry to all Ireland Success in 2004, 2006 and 2009 (not exactly another generation ago), in what is, lets face it, a much more competitive competition than the All Ireland Hurling championship, is now after slipping behind the curve or essentially incapable of training a team to last 70 minutes of the first round of a munster hurling championship is being highly dismissive and unkind to his previous achievements and being way to generous to the players...

Ando's Saggy Bottom

Baby4 wrote: »

I completely agree. He is playing great hurling for his club at the moment. He should never have retired from Intercounty hurling in my opinion.

If he's not interested in hurling county then he's not worth pining after. He's the past now.

hardybuck

noiniho wrote: »

I agree that most counties will have good physical trainers, and Waterford were always very well conditioned under Davy Fitz so you would expect the same from his Clare team, But Flanagan is coming from football background, in my experience footballers are actually fitter then Hurlers they need to carry the ball alot more, they take more contact in collisons and like a half back / half forward in football covers way more ground then someone playing in those lines in hurling as in hurling the ball obviously does alot more of the work and can travel almost the length of the field.

So to suggest that Flanagan, who was the physical trainer who helped Kerry to all Ireland Success in 2004, 2006 and 2009 (not exactly another generation ago), in what is, lets face it, a much more competitive competition than the All Ireland Hurling championship, is now after slipping behind the curve or essentially incapable of training a team to last 70 minutes of the first round of a munster hurling championship is being highly dismissive and unkind to his previous achievements and being way to generous to the players...

If you look at my comment again, you'll see I didn't suggest anything other than the fact that other counties may have trainers of his quality. His presence mightn't be as huge a bonus as it might have been five years ago.

I've been trained myself by Flanagan, I know how good he is. He did huge work with Kerry to turn them around in '04 and 05 in particular. But that was Kerry, and they will always be in the mix to win All Irelands.

noiniho

hardybuck wrote: »

If you look at my comment again, you'll see I didn't suggest anything other than the fact that other counties may have trainers of his quality. His presence mightn't be as huge a bonus as it might have been five years ago.

I've been trained myself by Flanagan, I know how good he is. He did huge work with Kerry to turn them around in '04 and 05 in particular. But that was Kerry, and they will always be in the mix to win All Irelands.

Having had first hand experience of being trained under Flanagan, and taking into account his past record, what would your opinion be of a team under his care wilting in the last ten minutes of the munster championship? that was the crux of my argument.

I am not talking about All Irelands, I am talking about 70 minutes, I saw something that bothered me in that game, and having re-watched it on telly, too many players had given up the ghost after 60 minutes, just watching it you knew we were gone and it wasnt because of lack of fitness. my point is in that instance you can have the best physical trainer on the planet and it wont make a difference, do ya get me?

hardybuck

noiniho wrote: »

Having had first hand experience of being trained under Flanagan, and taking into account his past record, what would your opinion be of a team under his care wilting in the last ten minutes of the munster championship? that was the crux of my argument.

I am not talking about All Irelands, I am talking about 70 minutes, I saw something that bothered me in that game, and having re-watched it on telly, too many players had given up the ghost after 60 minutes, just watching it you knew we were gone and it wasnt because of lack of fitness. my point is in that instance you can have the best physical trainer on the planet and it wont make a difference, do ya get me?

Yeah, I'd say the mental fatigue was there as well. A lot of young lads being blooded like that - it's a tough ask and can take it's toll mentally. I know Clare are very young also, but a lot of their lads came through a couple of years ago and have that experience.

I would also include the point that we were probably just out-hurled as well. Both teams had similar periods of dominance through the game, but Clare were more clinical when they were dominant.

cleaboy boy

Confirmed - Offaly V Waterford has a 7 p.m. throw in at O'Connor Park Tullamore, Saturday June 22nd.

Would expect RTE to announce live coverage in due course.

KevIRL

cleaboy boy wrote: »

Would expect RTE to announce live coverage in due course.

I'd say they will wait for football qualifer draw to be done, as in the GAA's infinite wisdon (/sarcasm) only 1 game from the qualifers each round can be shown. Thats 1 game from between each code, not one from each code.

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

Yeah, I'd say the mental fatigue was there as well. A lot of young lads being blooded like that - it's a tough ask and can take it's toll mentally. I know Clare are very young also, but a lot of their lads came through a couple of years ago and have that experience.

I would also include the point that we were probably just out-hurled as well. Both teams had similar periods of dominance through the game, but Clare were more clinical when they were dominant.

I reckon they dropped their heads on account of Clare winning puckout after puckout, and the lack of a plan b to win primary possesion from our puckouts. Must be very tough mentally to see your marker keep catching balls and still have all the balls keep coming down on you with no change.

KevIRL wrote: »

I'd say they will wait for football qualifer draw to be done, as in the GAA's infinite wisdon (/sarcasm) only 1 game from the qualifers each round can be shown. Thats 1 game from between each code, not one from each code.

There are no footballe qualifiers that weekend.

KevIRL

Mountainlad wrote: »

There are no footballe qualifiers that weekend.

Its per round though not per weekend.

Unless its changed this year, which I hope it has as its ridiculous to restrict the showing of games once it gets to actual knock out stage

Mountainlad

KevIRL wrote: »

Its per round though not per weekend.

Unless its changed this year, which I hope it has as its ridiculous to restrict the showing of games once it gets to actual knock out stage

It's the preliminary round though? Would that make a difference?

Fireball07

KevIRL wrote: »

Its per round though not per weekend.

Unless its changed this year, which I hope it has as its ridiculous to restrict the showing of games once it gets to actual knock out stage

It is ridiculous really, there have been some classic matches in the qualifiers which have received little to no coverage. Wish RTE streamed the matches on the website or something. I think every GAA match should be uploaded somewhere at the end of the season, if nothing else, it's an awful shame for all those games to disappear.

KevIRL

Mountainlad wrote: »

It's the preliminary round though? Would that make a difference?

It might! Nice spot. Thats made me a lot more confident that it'll be on the box.

Vital for me that it is, as I am getting married the day before and have been told in no uncertain terms will I be allowed to head to Tullamore the day after the wedding.

KevIRL

Fireball07 wrote: »

It is ridiculous really, there have been some classic matches in the qualifiers which have received little to no coverage. Wish RTE streamed the matches on the website or something. I think every GAA match should be uploaded somewhere at the end of the season, if nothing else, it's an awful shame for all those games to disappear.

Yer preaching to the converted hear Fireball07, its just short sightedness of the GAA to restrict the number of games, and try to blame low attendances on the fact the game is on TV while largely ignoring the other issues that affect attendances - pricing, ground location etc.

To make it worse they show loads of relatively meaningless provincial games (Kerry v Tipp anyone?) where the outcome does not mean elimination for the loser.

In my mind they should show as many games as possible live, provincial, qualifer and All Ireland series, as long term the more games live on TV means more exposure for the sport and higher attendances. Of course this level of joined up thinking wouldnt exist in the upper echelons of the organisation

Mountainlad

KevIRL wrote: »

It might! Nice spot. Thats made me a lot more confident that it'll be on the box.

Vital for me that it is, as I am getting married the day before and have been told in no uncertain terms will I be allowed to head to Tullamore the day after the wedding.

Congratulations, hope it all goes well!


Hopefully we'll all be celebrating on the Saturday.

deiseach

KevIRL wrote: »

Vital for me that it is, as I am getting married the day before and have been told in no uncertain terms will I be allowed to head to Tullamore the day after the wedding.

She can't really love you then!

KevIRL

deiseach wrote: »

She can't really love you then!

She is from KK, and places no importance in going to games unless its an AI final :pac:

deiseach

KevIRL wrote: »

She is from KK, and places no importance in going to games unless its an AI final :pac:

KevIRL and his bride-to-be yesterday.

KevIRL

deiseach wrote: »

KevIRL and his bride-to-be yesterday.

Well considering we live in The Gaza Strip Ferrybank its kinda like that everyday

KevIRL

Just noticed on the hurling championship thread that ticket prices for the hurling qualifier v Offaly are €15 stand and €10 terrace, really argue with those prices. Hopefully a good crowd will travel up for it

IanVW

KevIRL wrote: »

Just noticed on the hurling championship thread that ticket prices for the hurling qualifier v Offaly are €15 stand and €10 terrace, really argue with those prices. Hopefully a good crowd will travel up for it

just booked mine on tickets.ie:D unreserved seating

deisedude

IanVW wrote: »

just booked mine on tickets.ie:D unreserved seating

Did you get a print out ticket or will it be delivered to you? Living in galway but my billing address is the family home.

IanVW

deisedude wrote: »

Did you get a print out ticket or will it be delivered to you? Living in galway but my billing address is the family home.

getting it delivered:)

seananigans

Does anyone know the transport situation up to the match from Dublin? If I can get a half day on the Saturday,would love to head up.

PS anyone need a hand with petrol money let me know :-)

premierstone

seananigans wrote: »

Does anyone know the transport situation up to the match from Dublin? If I can get a half day on the Saturday,would love to head up.

PS anyone need a hand with petrol money let me know :-)

If you go 'up' from Dublin to Tullamore it will cost quite a bit in petrol Money I would have thought

Train from Heuston is only an hour from Tullamore is probably your best bet.

robopaddy

seananigans wrote: »

Does anyone know the transport situation up to the match from Dublin? If I can get a half day on the Saturday,would love to head up.

PS anyone need a hand with petrol money let me know :-)

Your talking about 30 quid return on train to and from dublin. Probably aswell off stick to the motor as the ground is a bit out of town anyway

seananigans

premierstone wrote: »

If you go 'up' from Dublin to Tullamore it will cost quite a bit in petrol Money I would have thought

Train from Heuston is only an hour from Tullamore is probably your best bet.

yeah, I asked an Offaly girl about the transport situation in work , said about the train ,annoyingly she doesn't have a clue about hurling ,so little abuse is possible :-( ,heres hoping the players will be the same way :-)

seananigans

premierstone wrote: »

If you go 'up' from Dublin to Tullamore it will cost quite a bit in petrol Money I would have thought

Train from Heuston is only an hour from Tullamore is probably your best bet.

Oh and If is ever start saying down the country may I be stabbed with a rusty spoon and hoisted onto hill 16 in a Jackeen jersey during a football match :-)

deiseach

seananigans wrote: »

Oh and If is ever start saying down the country may I be stabbed with a rusty spoon

Sounds reasonable.

seananigans wrote: »

and hoisted onto hill 16

Harsh but fair.

seananigans wrote: »

in a Jackeen jersey

Okay, steady on there.

seananigans wrote: »

during a football match :-)

Ah come on! There's a whole chapter in the Geneva Convention prohibiting that particular punishment.

soggy biscuit

Anyone down in Fraher last night? Fourmile must have been piss poor were they?

Giveitfong

KevIRL wrote: »

It might! Nice spot. Thats made me a lot more confident that it'll be on the box.

Vital for me that it is, as I am getting married the day before and have been told in no uncertain terms will I be allowed to head to Tullamore the day after the wedding.

For some reason this reminds me of the story of a farmer in the old American West who got married. After the ceremony, he took his new wife back to the farm in his horse & carriage. About a mile along the way, the horse stumbled and the farmer said: "That's once". Another mile along, and the horse stumbled again. The farmer said "That's twice". A bit further along, and the horse stumbled again. The farmer stopped the carriage, got his gun out of the back, and shot the horse dead. His wife exclaimed: "What the hell did you shoot a good horse like that for?". The farmer replied: "That's once".

Best of luck anyway and have a great day!

Deise_2012

soggy biscuit wrote: »

Anyone down in Fraher last night? Fourmile must have been piss poor were they?

what a loss jamie barron is to the team, from the start de la salle just dominated, fourmile weren't even trying in the 2nd half never looked like they wanted to win it. few digs and shoulders thrown mullanes way in the 2nd half, don't think the fourmile players took too kindly to the comments he made about michael ryan

soggy biscuit

Where was Jamie Barron?

IanVW

soggy biscuit wrote: »

Where was Jamie Barron?

Suspended