Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

noiniho

Mountainlad wrote: »

While I guess that's meant they weren't proud as they would be of a club from there own area, would the fact that more people are emigrating not make it more conceivable that group teams might work/be necessary?

I don't understand why it would be an issue for clubs like Geraldines and Ballinameela or Modeligo, St Marys Touraneena and Colligan to play with each other at Senior level and just have the clubs St Olivers and Naoimh Brid/St Pats.

There's more just using those two as I'm quite familiar with them. Now obviously, they would have to be the ones to ultimately decided and if they're not interested fair enough but surely it's disheartening when say they're playing Division one hurling (Did Naomh Brid win div 1 or 2 in the u16 hurling this year?) and then when those players get to Senior level one of the club only gets 3 or 4 players out of it. Hard to sustain that I would have thought.

The whole concept would probably work better now because of the quality of some of the young players coming through for example on the Dungarvan CBS team who are from smaller clubs, after playing at such a high level growing up (some of the best school and county teams in the country nevermind the county) they would probably love to have a craic at senior, and unlike before, they probably would be very competitive if not have a fair crack of winning it eventually.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

While I guess that's meant they weren't proud as they would be of a club from there own area, would the fact that more people are emigrating not make it more conceivable that group teams might work/be necessary?

I don't understand why it would be an issue for clubs like Geraldines and Ballinameela or Modeligo, St Marys Touraneena and Colligan to play with each other at Senior level and just have the clubs St Olivers and Naoimh Brid/St Pats.

There's more just using those two as I'm quite familiar with them. Now obviously, they would have to be the ones to ultimately decided and if they're not interested fair enough but surely it's disheartening when say they're playing Division one hurling (Did Naomh Brid win div 1 or 2 in the u16 hurling this year?) and then when those players get to Senior level one of the club only gets 3 or 4 players out of it. Hard to sustain that I would have thought.

As far as I know a team from Colligan/Kilgobnet St Marys and Modeligo entered a team in the senior hurling championship a few years back called Comeragh Rangers or something I dont know much about it but obviously didnt work as it went again pretty quickly.

I do agree that a lot more talented young players are coming through from smaller junior and intermediate clubs all over the county that realistically will never be senior so you would have to worry about the future of these players. How can these lads progress to the next level? I know going all-county it one suggestion being bandied about thats a debate for another day (dont get allcounty started!!!) but as we know at this stage the powers that be are slow to change and some of these smaller clubs themselves are the very ones objecting the strongest.
Obviously the group team idea sounds great in an ideal world but for some reason or another it just dosent take off in this county (im not for a minute suggesting that its because the clubs dont want to be playing on the same team as neighbouring clubs) I dont beleive this to be the case I just believe the tradition and appetite for it isnt in the county for whatever reason and this has been proven in the past.

The thing we dont want is masses of players from smaller clubs transferring to senior clubs and with no parish rule in this county its always going to be a big threat. And the last thing we want is to be losing players from the game fullstop because of being disillusioned at the level they are playing. Certain players will always stick by their club no matter what while others will want to test themselves at a higher level and I beleive no sportsman should be penalised for doing that either so it between a rock and a hard place

Mountainlad

Delicate situation alright. In my opinion though, a player's greatest development would be through exposure to Inter-Couty training setups. If these lads are involved with county teams all up the way alon I don't think they should be in too much danger of regressing unless they aren't committed enough.

But playing Senior would be no hinderance, especially if it raised the standard overall.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Delicate situation alright. In my opinion though, a player's greatest development would be through exposure to Inter-Couty training setups. If these lads are involved with county teams all up the way alon I don't think they should be in too much danger of regressing unless they aren't committed enough.

But playing Senior would be no hinderance, especially if it raised the standard overall.

Yea I think the strength and conditioning that young lads are put through now in developments squads etc they are physically huge by the time they get to adult age anyway so physicality is not going to be an issue anymore. Its the skill levels that might suffer though and the first touch if not playing at high level consistently. The lads brough onto the county panel early will have a good chance but many lads dont mature and improve as hurlers until they are 22 or 23 and those are the lads we could lose out on. The Junior and Intermediate championships are quite a poor standard in this county in general and thats fairly evident when playing against the champions from other counties.

Professey Chin

Minor games against Limerick & Clare will be up on the Just Play app tonight

doz

Two games in the SHC tonight; Dungarvan and Passage played out a draw with 18 points apiece. That should be enough to send Passage through, Dungarvan probably need another point to ensure the same.

In the other game Lismore were surprisingly beaten by Ballyduff Upper on a score of 1-17 to 2-13. That result opens up a number of possibilities in that group, great result for Ballyduff.

Smiley Burnett

eoin Kelly held scoreless from play...when was the last time this happened?? if ever!!!

DeiseX

Any one have a list of the starting 15 for the teams involved in senior hurling last night? Passage are tipping away nicely.

Mountainlad

Considering he didn't score, it's some result for Passage as they are usually reliant enough on him from play.

noiniho

Watched the minor games last night on sky plus, was at the replay in Thurles but was at te opposite end of the field for Bennett seconds goal so was hard to see. Watching it last night the finish was absolutely class, he threw up the ball but delayed his strike and struck alot later than expected and the Limerick keeper had already hit the deck, he did this under pressure fromthe Limerick defence it was a cracking finish.

Mountainlad

noiniho wrote: »

Watched the minor games last night on sky plus, was at the replay in Thurles but was at te opposite end of the field for Bennett seconds goal so was hard to see. Watching it last night the finish was absolutely class, he threw up the ball but delayed his strike and struck alot later than expected and the Limerick keeper had already hit the deck, he did this under pressure fromthe Limerick defence it was a cracking finish.

Hes some hurler to be fair to him, that point he got in the secon half over his shoulder, his balance to pick up the ball was class I thought. Didn't look as good on tv as it did at the pitch just on account of the angle.

But bar the first ball he got played into him, his touch was magnetic all night. In fairness they've no issues in the full forward line which is good to see.

robopaddy

noiniho wrote: »

Watched the minor games last night on sky plus, was at the replay in Thurles but was at te opposite end of the field for Bennett seconds goal so was hard to see. Watching it last night the finish was absolutely class, he threw up the ball but delayed his strike and struck alot later than expected and the Limerick keeper had already hit the deck, he did this under pressure fromthe Limerick defence it was a cracking finish.

His goal from open play against Antrim was out of this world aswell. I know he was loose when he took the pass but was an absolute rocket from about 20 yards out. What a finish. Great to see he has improved with every game hes played since the injury remember he didnt even start against Tipp in the 1st round of the championship and didnt look fit when he came on late in the game.

No doubt Kilkenny will have a plan for him but I dont think theres any other forward in his league left in the competition

PTH2009

Anyone going to travel up to Croke park next sunday for the minor semi final ??.

think the game is on at 1.30 and the Dublin vs Cork semi final is on at 3.30

shoddy14

PTH2009 wrote: »

Anyone going to travel up to Croke park next sunday for the minor semi final ??.

think the game is on at 1.30 and the Dublin vs Cork semi final is on at 3.30

Ya, going up gatting the Saturday night, mon up lad

seananigans

PTH2009 wrote: »

Anyone going to travel up to Croke park next sunday for the minor semi final ??.

think the game is on at 1.30 and the Dublin vs Cork semi final is on at 3.30

yip ,20 min walk to the train 20 mins on the train ,drops me in drumcondra :-)

The blue blaa

Did aussie an bennett get sent off tonight while playin against each other in minor club championship??? An if so what for??

Deise Vu

The blue blaa wrote: »

Did aussie an bennett get sent off tonight while playin against each other in minor club championship??? An if so what for??

Jesus, more important are there any consequences, disciplinary-wise?

Mountainlad

Deise Vu wrote: »

Jesus, more important are there any consequences, disciplinary-wise?

If it did happen it will have no bearing on their inter county involvement with Waterford.

robopaddy

The blue blaa wrote: »

Did aussie an bennett get sent off tonight while playin against each other in minor club championship??? An if so what for??

dont know what happened or dont care. these things happen in club games all the time. stop talking about these younglads as if their some sort of celebrities.

The blue blaa

robopaddy wrote: »

dont know what happened or dont care. these things happen in club games all the time. stop talking about these younglads as if their some sort of celebrities.

Sorry for asking a question about regarding a club hurling match in waterford on the Waterford Gaa thread you keyboard warrior..

doz

As long as they're both fit and ready for Sun week I'm not too bothered. While we all love seeing these players playing together for the county, the reality of course is that they are mainly in opposition and these things happen, same as whenever there is a meeting of any two from DLS, Mount Sion or Ballygunner in particular.

On a slight aside, could anyone point me towards a match report from the Dungarvan and Passage game?

seananigans

The blue blaa wrote: »

Sorry for asking a question about regarding a club hurling match in waterford on the Waterford Gaa thread you keyboard warrior..

Just don't talk about football.... :-P

Funfair

Mountainlad wrote: »

If it did happen it will have no bearing on their inter county involvement with Waterford.

Are you sure ? I think a straight red will get you a month ban from all games including inter county

Mountainlad

Funfair wrote: »

Are you sure ? I think a straight red will get you a month ban from all games including inter county

Unless the rules are different at Minor then at Senior level then nope. Used be the case though.

Funfair

Mountainlad your right I just checked the rule book, I'm guessing it was a category 2 offence if they both got straight red, the punishment gets more severe if you hit an official but I doubt they went that far...

Category IIInfractions

5.1 To strike or attempt to strike an opponent with

arm, elbow, hand or knee.

5.2 To kick or attempt to kick an opponent, with

minimal force.

5.3 To behave in any way which is dangerous to

an opponent.

5.4 To spit at an opponent.

5.5 To contribute to a melee.

5.6 To use abusive language to a Referee, Umpire,

Linesman or Sideline Official.



Category II

Minimum; 4 weeks Suspension in the sameCode and at

the same Level, inclusive of the nextGame in the same

Competition of that Competition Year,even if that Game falls

outside the Suspension time period.

doz

Hoganstand have finally got wind of the John Mullane story;

http://www.hoganstand.com/Hurling/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=197834

Reading this again, it actually has made me quite angry. He had retired and stressed on numerous occasions that he wouldn't return, why should management have to pick up the phone and call him in advance of a high profile game? If he wanted to make himself available he could easily have done so. It's a bit like the ridiculous quotes that Stephen Ireland trots out every now and again when he needs media attention:rolleyes: I hope John reflects on these comments and realises that they were unfair on the panel of players who had been training hard all year in advance of the Championship.

The article also reminded me of a couple of players who were 'retired' well before their time during the Davy era. Always thought Bull Phelan was a fine hurler but Davy didn't want to know. Declan Prendergast was another who went before his time when he still had plenty to offer.

noiniho

doz wrote: »

Hoganstand have finally got wind of the John Mullane story;

http://www.hoganstand.com/Hurling/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=197834

Reading this again, it actually has made me quite angry. He had retired and stressed on numerous occasions that he wouldn't return, why should management have to pick up the phone and call him in advance of a high profile game? If he wanted to make himself available he could easily have done so. It's a bit like the ridiculous quotes that Stephen Ireland trots out every now and again when he needs media attention:rolleyes: I hope John reflects on these comments and realises that they were unfair on the panel of players who had been training hard all year in advance of the Championship.

The article also reminded me of a couple of players who were 'retired' well before their time during the Davy era. Always thought Bull Phelan was a fine hurler but Davy didn't want to know. Declan Prendergast was another who went before his time when he still had plenty to offer.

Declan Retired when Michael Ryan came on board, probably got told he wasnt in his plans and was left witht he oppurtunity to retire himself before getting dropped from the panel.

Mullane would want to get off the stage, dont know what he had to gain from that interview, he spent most of it talking rubbish about himself.

Lets face it he has a gripe with Ryan, evidenced by his comments before the Offaly game, with Waterford showing up well against Kilkenny he had nothing else to criticise Ryan about other than not asking him back, sad really, he was making out on one hand he was disappointed he never got the call and was on the other hand saying he wouldnt have returned. so in essence, he was disapointed he didnt get the oppurtunity to say no to Ryan when he came crawling back for him... As good and all as you were John, let it go, it is a sad fact of every GAA team in the country that when you retire it is not long you are forgotten about... that the way it always is, harsh and all as it seems, because when you retire you are of no use anymore.

robopaddy

doz wrote: »

Hoganstand have finally got wind of the John Mullane story;

http://www.hoganstand.com/Hurling/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=197834

Reading this again, it actually has made me quite angry. He had retired and stressed on numerous occasions that he wouldn't return, why should management have to pick up the phone and call him in advance of a high profile game? If he wanted to make himself available he could easily have done so. It's a bit like the ridiculous quotes that Stephen Ireland trots out every now and again when he needs media attention:rolleyes: I hope John reflects on these comments and realises that they were unfair on the panel of players who had been training hard all year in advance of the Championship.

The article also reminded me of a couple of players who were 'retired' well before their time during the Davy era. Always thought Bull Phelan was a fine hurler but Davy didn't want to know. Declan Prendergast was another who went before his time when he still had plenty to offer.

Dec Penders time was up to be fair there have been a lot of talented young backs coming through the past couple years it was time to move on. With regard to Bull Phelan my understanding is that he didnt see eye to eye with a member of Davy Fitz management team rather than Davy himself which put paid to his intercounty career.

I agree totally on Mullane what it all goes to show is that John Mullanes talent is hurling and hurling only. That is what he is renowned and loved for and that is what he should stick to, nothing else. He is not or never will be a journalist or a media celebrity and hes trying milk whatever bit of time he has left in the public eye and squeez every last penny from it. Id like to see him either return to intercounty hurling, or just try and move on from the public eye with a bit of dignity and devote more of this time and energy to his club and family like he said he was going to do when retired. Otherwise people are going to start remembering his legacy with a sour taste in their mouths rather than what what he should be remembered for

Deise_2012

Seems to be a lot of interest for the managers job from both inside and outside the county, the county board would want a kick up the backside fairly lively and just offer Michael Ryan another term because there's great progress been made this year and it can only improve next year based on the amount of players returning and the experience the younger players have gained from this year. Unless Mr.Cody fancys a few years down in carriganore ha, there should be only 1 outcome really

suitcasepink

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of interest for the managers job from both inside and outside the county, the county board would want a kick up the backside fairly lively and just offer Michael Ryan another term because there's great progress been made this year and it can only improve next year based on the amount of players returning and the experience the younger players have gained from this year. Unless Mr.Cody fancys a few years down in carriganore ha, there should be only 1 outcome really

Care to mention some of the interested men involved?

doz

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Seems to be a lot of interest for the managers job from both inside and outside the county, the county board would want a kick up the backside fairly lively and just offer Michael Ryan another term because there's great progress been made this year and it can only improve next year based on the amount of players returning and the experience the younger players have gained from this year. Unless Mr.Cody fancys a few years down in carriganore ha, there should be only 1 outcome really

Ironic that there was no such interest when Davy went and the job was free, a lot of people see an opportunity to piggy back on Ryan's good work all of a sudden! I notice a number of his most vocal detractors have also disappeared from the forum in recent weeks.

It would be pretty shameful stuff if he didn't get at least another year but trusting our county board to do the right thing is not a bet I'd ever take.

Mountainlad

doz wrote: »

Ironic that there was no such interest when Davy went and the job was free, a lot of people see an opportunity to piggy back on Ryan's good work all of a sudden! I notice a number of his most vocal detractors have also disappeared from the forum in recent weeks.

It would be pretty shameful stuff if he didn't get at least another year but trusting our county board to do the right thing is not a bet I'd ever take.

Probably applying for the job themselves!

I'd say his position is safe, he's gotten too much praise in the media and from the supporters to be pushed out now.

KevIRL

Mountainlad wrote: »

I'd say his position is safe, he's gotten too much praise in the media and from the supporters to be pushed out now.

With our county board Mountainlad you can never be too sure. Although our poor financial situation should mean that no outside manager will end up in the position. So for once, we are lucky to be so badly off money wise

robopaddy

doz wrote: »

Ironic that there was no such interest when Davy went and the job was free, a lot of people see an opportunity to piggy back on Ryan's good work all of a sudden! I notice a number of his most vocal detractors have also disappeared from the forum in recent weeks.

It would be pretty shameful stuff if he didn't get at least another year but trusting our county board to do the right thing is not a bet I'd ever take.

Under Davy we got to to 4 AI semis in a row and an AI final. this manager we got to a quarter final in his first season and only the second round qualifiers in his second season. From a results point of view is that really huge progress??

Just throwing the argument out there......

doz

robopaddy wrote: »

Under Davy we got to to 4 AI semis in a row and an AI final. this manager we got to a quarter final in his first season and only the second round qualifiers in his second season. From a results point of view is that really huge progress??

Just throwing the argument out there......

It's a fair point. From my own personal point of view I think Davy did a lot of good things with the team, there was a very good team spirit and never day die attitude, a very professional set up and the players were in great condition. However in comparison to today's relatively inexperienced team he had a lot of battle hardened experienced individuals and good players and I never subscribed to the theory that he was doing well with a poor group, he was just unfortunate that Tipp and KK were so strong at the time.

He also did a fair bit of damage to Waterford hurling. He destroyed the confidence of a number of players (Seamus, Nagle, Dan, Shane Fives, arguably even Ken) who have subsequently come good under Ryan (Ken and Dan excepted). His style of hurling was awful to watch; constant handpassing and I always felt like the players were playing in a tactical straitjacket, never really going for the game in the true Waterford style because they were so focused on being tight and disciplined. Many might lambast or ridicule me for the last point but there is a tradition of open and skilful hurling in the county and I think most supporters prefer to see the team playing in that manner. I don't think it's like soccer or Donegal playing football where it's just win however possible; Waterford people take pride in the fact that they have established a tradition of playing exciting hurling. I know a fair few people who stayed away from games during Davy's reign on that basis, rightly or wrongly, because they found the team difficult to watch.

I believe we are now on the cusp of potentially a very exciting era for Waterford hurling. There is a good amount of quality in the panel and hopefully more to come through. Despite the results the last two years I think there is a sense of optimism returning to our support that had disappeared under Davy. Ryan brings a wonderful level of honesty and hard work to the table which really shows in how the players perform and I think fans have warmed to that. He may not be successful results wise in the long term but whoever comes after him should have plenty to work with.

At the end of the day once I see the lads going out there, trying to play the game the right way and leaving nothing behind it makes me proud to be from Waterford. Isn't that why we all travel around the country every year after all, to show the lads that we are proud of how they represent our communities and our county?

Mountainlad

KevIRL wrote: »

With our county board Mountainlad you can never be too sure. Although our poor financial situation should mean that no outside manager will end up in the position. So for once, we are lucky to be so badly off money wise

Their form so far has been to back Davy, when they initially came in even though it was the perfect time to shaft him and say they wanted their own man, and again 2011 when they could have pointed to the Munster Final they didn't want him to go even though we couldn't possibly afford him.

Michael Ryan is the first appointment under the new secretary and chairman. He's cheap, and he has kept Waterford up twice in the league despite being favourites for the drop both times. Last year's quarter final was disappointing but unfortunate. This year we got Kilkenny in a round three qualifier, only one team has had to deal with that before I'm fairly sure (and I suppose Tipp this year who got them in round two). And we ahve never run them more close.

Now that's the purely positive spin on it but I think that's likely to be how they will see it. Board's generally aren't in the habit of intentionally undermining themselves.

The other thing is, we all seem to be quite fond of having a cut at the County board. I'm not sure to be honest the make up of the board at the moment, how many people have been their for years. But I wonder does anyone here actually now Cunningham or O'Keeffe, I certainly don't. The financial mess is terrible but in the positions they are in now it was inherited really. Still, I'm don't think they're doing a great job of fixing it but it's not easy.

Just saying that (not you particularly Kev) that there is a tendency to criticize just about everyone here, from managers of all the underage teams and the higher profile members of the board and even some people had the neck to criticize minors aged 16-18 and not only that but namecheck them as well, just think maybe it goes a bit far sometimes.

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Their form so far has been to back Davy, when they initially came in even though it was the perfect time to shaft him and say they wanted their own man, and again 2011 when they could have pointed to the Munster Final they didn't want him to go even though we couldn't possibly afford him.

Michael Ryan is the first appointment under the new secretary and chairman. He's cheap, and he has kept Waterford up twice in the league despite being favourites for the drop both times. Last year's quarter final was disappointing but unfortunate. This year we got Kilkenny in a round three qualifier, only one team has had to deal with that before I'm fairly sure (and I suppose Tipp this year who got them in round two). And we ahve never run them more close.

Now that's the purely positive spin on it but I think that's likely to be how they will see it. Board's generally aren't in the habit of intentionally undermining themselves.

The other thing is, we all seem to be quite fond of having a cut at the County board. I'm not sure to be honest the make up of the board at the moment, how many people have been their for years. But I wonder does anyone here actually now Cunningham or O'Keeffe, I certainly don't. The financial mess is terrible but in the positions they are in now it was inherited really. Still, I'm don't think they're doing a great job of fixing it but it's not easy.

Just saying that (not you particularly Kev) that there is a tendency to criticize just about everyone here, from managers of all the underage teams and the higher profile members of the board and even some people had the neck to criticize minors aged 16-18 and not only that but namecheck them as well, just think maybe it goes a bit far sometimes.

Without meaning to sound like the glass is half empty, I felt there there was this huge sense of moral victory after losing to a tired looking KK team when in fact they were there for the taking this year. Cork and Dublin seized the opportunity but we couldn't.

Im not dishing the work Ryan has done in the 2 years hes been there but the question the co. board should be asking is he really the man to take us to the next level? We want to be back challenging for winning All Irelands again (which were not as far away as some are suggesting... look around at the other results this year plus we have some real quality minor and u21s coming through the next couple years) I think we need a man behind us that can push us on again and knows what it takes to win AI's at this level. And with due respect I dont mean ladies football. Look around at every other top 9/10 hurling county, every manager has won a Senior AI either as player or as part of a management team and that's the route other counties are taking I think its what we need aswell. Now is the time to change it again when we are entering a new era. Ryan has done well to steady the ship in the 2 years hes been here but expectation wasn't that high anyway. If last years championship finished up the way it did under Davy he'd have been hung drawn and quartered from the top of Rice Bridge.

PTH2009

Donal Og Cusack would make a good manager but id say he be more intrested in managing Cork.

Liam Sheedy would be good but doubt he would be intrested in managing Waterford.

Jason Ryan with a top hurling coach

Dereck Mcgrath, John Meeney, John Myler, Paul Flynn could be possibiltys

Ropaire

It would be crazy not to stick with Michael Ryan for another year, progress is being made and he's earned another go at it. He's blooded alot of new players and particularly from 1-9 we're very strong.

We're poor in the forwards though, we have some light but pacy lads up there and the game plan we had for the Kilkenny match suited them, but as a unit they still looked pretty poor. Seamus in an inside forward line of two being asked to run for diagonal ball to the corners while Barron was out the middle of the filed didn't strike me as an effective way to play to the strengths of who we had available, and there was no great combination play on show once it made it in to the half forward line either (although the Kilkenny backs had alot to say about that in fairness). I'd like to see a top forwards coach brought in under Skully to try and get a bit more change out of the players we have from 10-15. I wouldn't mind seeing Darragh Fives tried at center forward either, I reckon he'd do a serious job there.

KevIRL

Its absolute lunacy to be talking about possible replacements. Ryan should be manager again next year unless for some unlikely reason he decides himself he doesnt want to continue

robopaddy

PTH2009 wrote: »

Donal Og Cusack would make a good manager but id say he be more intrested in managing Cork.

Liam Sheedy would be good but doubt he would be intrested in managing Waterford.

Jason Ryan with a top hurling coach

Dereck Mcgrath, John Meeney, John Myler, Paul Flynn could be possibiltys

Michael Walsh from Kilkenny is a guy with serious credentials. Whether he would be interested I dont know but hes definitely available

Speak Now

robopaddy wrote: »

Michael Walsh from Kilkenny is a guy with serious credentials. Whether he would be interested I dont know but hes definitely available

I hope you're joking! Did a poor job with KK Under 21's.

soggy biscuit

I for one would want Michael Ryan out the door any way. Everyone going on about progress?? Where is It? As was said before Ryan came in we were in semi finals and munster finals constantly. Last year we got to a munster final and never looked like winning it a all, and then had a very disappointing quarter final v cork. This year, we were terrible against clare first day out. Beat a poor offaly team, beat a westmeath team handy in the end as to be expected yet struggled for the first half. Then the match v kilkenny. Fair enough they showed a bit of heart and could have won it, but as was also said, kilkenny were there for the taking as has been shown this year v offaly, dublin and cork. Where is the progress in that can someone tell me? At the end of the day we lost the match and people are happy with the "moral victory" of running them close.
Ropaire has said "He's blooded alot of new players and particularly from 1-9 we're very strong". From the team that started v kilkenny from 1-9, the only people blooded were Sok, Shane Fives and Daragh Fives. Rest of the players already there, and soky and fives were always going to be making that team, were just too young the last few years. All the rest of the panel were playing from the regime before. The only other players blooded have been Jamie Barron and Jake Dillon who have both failed to reach their potential shown in club championship and at other levels of intercounty. Now fair enough, its not Ryans fault that the forwards we have at the moment arent good enough. Whether it be down to no experience or being too light. Also, its clear as day that mullane only left the panel due to the fact Ryan stayed on. Our best forward gone before we even started championship. Don't be surprised to see him back next year if a new man is in charge.

As has been shown this year the hurling championship has become a lot more open. Kilkenny, Tipp have come down a notch and other teams progressing nicely, its so open any team in the semis could go on to win it now. i'd love for me to be saying that about Waterford next year, and they have a great chance of doing it. I'd love to see someone like Derek McGrath come in and do a job now. Now i await all the angry replies that are going to come my way......

Professey Chin

soggy biscuit wrote: »

I for one would want Michael Ryan out the door any way. Everyone going on about progress?? Where is It? As was said before Ryan came in we were in semi finals and munster finals constantly. Last year we got to a munster final and never looked like winning it a all, and then had a very disappointing quarter final v cork. This year, we were terrible against clare first day out. Beat a poor offaly team, beat a westmeath team handy in the end as to be expected yet struggled for the first half. Then the match v kilkenny. Fair enough they showed a bit of heart and could have won it, but as was also said, kilkenny were there for the taking as has been shown this year v offaly, dublin and cork. Where is the progress in that can someone tell me? At the end of the day we lost the match and people are happy with the "moral victory" of running them close.
Ropaire has said "He's blooded alot of new players and particularly from 1-9 we're very strong". From the team that started v kilkenny from 1-9, the only people blooded were Sok, Shane Fives and Daragh Fives. Rest of the players already there, and soky and fives were always going to be making that team, were just too young the last few years. All the rest of the panel were playing from the regime before. The only other players blooded have been Jamie Barron and Jake Dillon who have both failed to reach their potential shown in club championship and at other levels of intercounty. Now fair enough, its not Ryans fault that the forwards we have at the moment arent good enough. Whether it be down to no experience or being too light. Also, its clear as day that mullane only left the panel due to the fact Ryan stayed on. Our best forward gone before we even started championship. Don't be surprised to see him back next year if a new man is in charge.

As has been shown this year the hurling championship has become a lot more open. Kilkenny, Tipp have come down a notch and other teams progressing nicely, its so open any team in the semis could go on to win it now. i'd love for me to be saying that about Waterford next year, and they have a great chance of doing it. I'd love to see someone like Derek McGrath come in and do a job now. Now i await all the angry replies that are going to come my way......

Nah. Wouldnt even bother after that rambling

Deise_2012

soggy biscuit wrote: »

I for one would want Michael Ryan out the door any way. Everyone going on about progress?? Where is It? As was said before Ryan came in we were in semi finals and munster finals constantly. Last year we got to a munster final and never looked like winning it a all, and then had a very disappointing quarter final v cork. This year, we were terrible against clare first day out. Beat a poor offaly team, beat a westmeath team handy in the end as to be expected yet struggled for the first half. Then the match v kilkenny. Fair enough they showed a bit of heart and could have won it, but as was also said, kilkenny were there for the taking as has been shown this year v offaly, dublin and cork. Where is the progress in that can someone tell me? At the end of the day we lost the match and people are happy with the "moral victory" of running them close.
Ropaire has said "He's blooded alot of new players and particularly from 1-9 we're very strong". From the team that started v kilkenny from 1-9, the only people blooded were Sok, Shane Fives and Daragh Fives. Rest of the players already there, and soky and fives were always going to be making that team, were just too young the last few years. All the rest of the panel were playing from the regime before. The only other players blooded have been Jamie Barron and Jake Dillon who have both failed to reach their potential shown in club championship and at other levels of intercounty. Now fair enough, its not Ryans fault that the forwards we have at the moment arent good enough. Whether it be down to no experience or being too light. Also, its clear as day that mullane only left the panel due to the fact Ryan stayed on. Our best forward gone before we even started championship. Don't be surprised to see him back next year if a new man is in charge.

As has been shown this year the hurling championship has become a lot more open. Kilkenny, Tipp have come down a notch and other teams progressing nicely, its so open any team in the semis could go on to win it now. i'd love for me to be saying that about Waterford next year, and they have a great chance of doing it. I'd love to see someone like Derek McGrath come in and do a job now. Now i await all the angry replies that are going to come my way......

Ah yeah sure, I thought we really had a chance in the 2011 muster final, I spose the 7th goal Tipp scored was the killer, still in the game up until then! Missing 7 players from the panel v Kilkenny, and we end up losing in extra time, what's Ryan at like? Davy Fitz or Derek McGrath definately would have got us through that match!
Jake Dillon only scoring about 8-30 in the club championship so far this season, Jamie Barrons 1st season as a inter county forward, if they couldn't "reach their potential" this season might aswel drop them for next year, clearly they're not good enough! Stephen Daniels and Jamie Nagle were flying under davy fitz sure weren't they? The former wasn't constantly on and off the panel and the latter being used as a substitute at best.

soggy biscuit

Deise_2012 wrote: »

Ah yeah sure, I thought we really had a chance in the 2011 muster final, I spose the 7th goal Tipp scored was the killer, still in the game up until then! Missing 7 players from the panel v Kilkenny, and we end up losing in extra time, what's Ryan at like? Davy Fitz or Derek McGrath definately would have got us through that match!
Jake Dillon only scoring about 8-30 in the club championship so far this season, Jamie Barrons 1st season as a inter county forward, if they couldn't "reach their potential" this season might aswel drop them for next year, clearly they're not good enough! Stephen Daniels and Jamie Nagle were flying under davy fitz sure weren't they? The former wasn't constantly on and off the panel and the latter being used as a substitute at best.

Have to disagree about that munster final buck, felt it was the 5th goal that killed us. Who were these 7 players missing as a matter of interest? And yes you're kind of backing up my point re dillon. He's the best forward in the club scene at the moment, but can't do it at intercounty yet. Why are you getting touchy over it? I never said drop the 2 lads for next year, just asking where everyone thinks we're making this progress? And yes, fair enough on daniels, he was after coming on a tonne before his injury.

Deise_2012

soggy biscuit wrote: »

Have to disagree about that munster final buck, felt it was the 5th goal that killed us. Who were these 7 players missing as a matter of interest? And yes you're kind of backing up my point re dillon. He's the best forward in the club scene at the moment, but can't do it at intercounty yet. Why are you getting touchy over it? I never said drop the 2 lads for next year, just asking where everyone thinks we're making this progress? And yes, fair enough on daniels, he was after coming on a tonne before his injury.

Sorry I read your comments about dillon and barron wrongly, but in fairness it's a big step up to senior inter county. Jamie Nagle has imroved a lot aswel as Daniels you have to admit. Brian O Halloran, the 2 Mahony's, Gavin O' Brien, Stephen Molumphy, Steven Daniels and a Shane Walsh that's not 40% coming on against KK. When last have we had such an inexperienced panel in fairness? Bringing in a new manager is pointless, you need stability around the team now

deisedude

soggy biscuit wrote: »

Have to disagree about that munster final buck, felt it was the 5th goal that killed us. Who were these 7 players missing as a matter of interest? And yes you're kind of backing up my point re dillon. He's the best forward in the club scene at the moment, but can't do it at intercounty yet. Why are you getting touchy over it? I never said drop the 2 lads for next year, just asking where everyone thinks we're making this progress? And yes, fair enough on daniels, he was after coming on a tonne before his injury.

Dillon is one of the top scorers from play in the championship so you are talking out your arse

Ropaire

Compared to how we were playing under Davy progress is being made. Davy got us to semi finals alright, but we played a brutal, negative, defensive system that shackled the players with just Mullane in the inside forward line on his own. He didn't trust the players he had to cut loose and just play, he robbed alot of guys of confidence and leaving lads like Dan on the bench was rediculous! Any time Davy brought Dan in as a late sub Dan saved his arse, the Galway match and the replay with Cork spring to mind. We were going backwards then, losing some great players, haemoraging cash and we shipped 2 monstrous hidings in the process.

Compare that to now, the only player with an issue seems to be Mullane, but he's retired and good luck to him with that. We have a settled backline that doesn't look likely to cough up many goals, never mind 7 in 1 game where we were supposed to be set up to stop goals, and we know we're light in the forward line. The worst we've played this year was against Clare where we bossed them but couldnt buy a score, which is what lost us the game. But having seen younger lads like Maurice, Dillon, Fives and Ray Barry showing well along with Nagle and the likes playing to a level I didnt think they had theres a bit of optimism that we're on an upward curve again. If these lads can click as a unit they'll do damage, with additions from the u21s and minors even better again. Why would you want to take the risk in changing it now when we saw the mess our last manager left us in financially and with the squad?

doz

One other point that I think should be made is that the Championship is far more competitive now than it was when Davy was in charge when Clare, Limerick and Cork were struggling. We have no divine right to nor should we be expecting to appear in semi finals every year. Next year's Munster Championship will be one of the most competitive in years and it will take a very good side to win it. Some good sides will be in the qualifiers next year and it will be tough going. That said I have not seen anything this year to suggest that we can not compete with the top sides next year. A lot of people here criticised the team for losing to Clare who now have a fine chance of winning an AI. Tight margins indeed but hopefully we will be on the right side of it next year.