Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

lovelypoint

Mountainlad wrote: »

Little hope by the sounds of it http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/waterford-to-consider-candidates-to-succeed-michael-ryan-as-manager-1.1492221

The composition of the sub-committee then was county chair, secretary and treasurer and it isn’t believed likely that any former players will be involved in the process this time either.

You would seem to be right. It would be nice to have a CB that were either capable or forward thinking..

rebel girl 15

Sam yellowed for personal abuse, Robo for ignoring my on thread warning - leave the personal stuff out

Sam Swarek

Not the first yellow card Ive ever received! Can I get it rescinded on appeal like Henry Shefflin?

Motivator

I wonder what kind of reception the player who's doing a line with Skully's daughter will get when he next goes around for tea? :eek:

doz

Motivator wrote: »

I wonder what kind of reception the player who's doing a line with Skully's daughter will get when he next goes around for tea? :eek:

I think it's actually 'players' in the plural but let's leave it at that! It's going to be pretty uncomfortable!

On that note you would have to wonder whether the split in the camp could lead to some players making themselves unavailable for next year?

Thinkstoomuch

Donal Og Cusack is in the running,according to the Echo and got the backing of Mullane.

Michael ryan is on Championship matters Thursday.

culbaire

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

Donal Og Cusack is in the running,according to the Echo and got the backing of Mullane.

Michael ryan is on Championship matters Thursday.

Who cares what Mullane says on this matter? The country board is in debt to the tune of €700,000.

Amprodude

Thinkstoomuch wrote: »

Donal Og Cusack is in the running,according to the Echo and got the backing of Mullane.

Another Corkman managing a different county. You would think with the crisis Cork have with the lack ofunderage success, we would be keeping all our previous heroes and get them involved coaching underage teams in order to get back a bit of success again.

alllcounty

Sam Swarek wrote: »

Not the first yellow card Ive ever received! Can I get it rescinded on appeal like Henry Shefflin?

Shut up you idiot. I'm still seeting with rage the way the 18 players have treated the manager. He gave so much to the betterment of waterford hurling these past 2 years and during that time I really felt energised we were back heading in the right direction for ultimate honours. 12 players on that panel shared my view, that's 40% didn't want him to go. You would normally find fringe players on any panel would not be happy with management as they are not getting enough game time. That means of the starting team there proberly was a majority that wanted him to stay. Many of those hurlers played their best hurling under Ryan. This was Nagel's best year in a waterford shirt, Brick had returned to his best, Moran won his first all star last year and gave an exhibition against kilkenny, Lawler and darragh fives played their best games ever against kilkenny, dillion showed great work ethic all year and chipped in with some good scores in the championship in his debut season. The list goes on further. From what I've gathered the reason they wanted him out is some didn't like his west waterford accent and that he delegated too much responsibility. He is the manager, not the coach, they are seperate roles with seperate responsibilities. One trains the team in training sessions and the other glues the whole thing together between selectors, players, media, county board, team talks, etc. He sourounded himself with hurling men and did what was asked of him. The performances were there. In the last 5 years other counties like limerick, clare, cork dublin and galway have come out of periods of unrest and panels that were way behind in the modern game. It was easy for waterford to be number 3 during this time. Any time we played kilkenny during this time it never at once looked like we would beat them. They often played us in 3rd gear and won by 7 points or more. This year was the first time since 98 before cody came in, that it looked like we could beat kilkenny. I really felt we were finally heading in the right direction. Now these 18 cowards have destroyed all that. They have put themselves under huge pressure for the next 3 years to get results. If they fail, this mess they have put us in will be thrown back at them. We had a good thing going here, excellent fitness trainers, a good defence coach in Cullinane who was our best full back of all time, a good trainer in Cunningham from limerick and a decent man with no ego to glue it all together. I dont think i can ever forgive those 18 backstabbing cowards for what they've done if they have ended up destroying the improvements we were making under this present management.

robopaddy

alllcounty wrote: »

Shut up you idiot. I'm still seeting with rage the way the 18 players have treated the manager. He gave so much to the betterment of waterford hurling these past 2 years and during that time I really felt energised we were back heading in the right direction for ultimate honours. 12 players on that panel shared my view, that's 40% didn't want him to go. You would normally find fringe players on any panel would not be happy with management as they are not getting enough game time. That means of the starting team there proberly was a majority that wanted him to stay. Many of those hurlers played their best hurling under Ryan. This was Nagel's best year in a waterford shirt, Brick had returned to his best, Moran won his first all star last year and gave an exhibition against kilkenny, Lawler and darragh fives played their best games ever against kilkenny, dillion showed great work ethic all year and chipped in with some good scores in the championship in his debut season. The list goes on further. From what I've gathered the reason they wanted him out is some didn't like his west waterford accent and that he delegated too much responsibility. He is the manager, not the coach, they are seperate roles with seperate responsibilities. One trains the team in training sessions and the other glues the whole thing together between selectors, players, media, county board, team talks, etc. He sourounded himself with hurling men and did what was asked of him. The performances were there. In the last 5 years other counties like limerick, clare, cork dublin and galway have come out of periods of unrest and panels that were way behind in the modern game. It was easy for waterford to be number 3 during this time. Any time we played kilkenny during this time it never at once looked like we would beat them. They often played us in 3rd gear and won by 7 points or more. This year was the first time since 98 before cody came in, that it looked like we could beat kilkenny. I really felt we were finally heading in the right direction. Now these 18 cowards have destroyed all that. They have put themselves under huge pressure for the next 3 years to get results. If they fail, this mess they have put us in will be thrown back at them. We had a good thing going here, excellent fitness trainers, a good defence coach in Cullinane who was our best full back of all time, a good trainer in Cunningham from limerick and a decent man with no ego to glue it all together. I dont think i can ever forgive those 18 backstabbing cowards for what they've done if they have ended up destroying the improvements we were making under this present management.

Ur out of order there kid. jesus no one was murdered. Ive no doubt thes players did it with the best of intentions and until we know the full story I dont think we can really make judgement.

Deskjockey

Waay out of order.

smashey

Sam Swarek wrote: »

Not the first yellow card Ive ever received! Can I get it rescinded on appeal like Henry Shefflin?

The way you are going here, that is most unlikely. In fact, the opposite is quite probable.

Sam Swarek

alllcounty wrote: »

Shut up you idiot. I'm still seeting with rage the way the 18 players have treated the manager. He gave so much to the betterment of waterford hurling these past 2 years and during that time I really felt energised we were back heading in the right direction for ultimate honours. 12 players on that panel shared my view, that's 40% didn't want him to go. You would normally find fringe players on any panel would not be happy with management as they are not getting enough game time. That means of the starting team there proberly was a majority that wanted him to stay. Many of those hurlers played their best hurling under Ryan. This was Nagel's best year in a waterford shirt, Brick had returned to his best, Moran won his first all star last year and gave an exhibition against kilkenny, Lawler and darragh fives played their best games ever against kilkenny, dillion showed great work ethic all year and chipped in with some good scores in the championship in his debut season. The list goes on further. From what I've gathered the reason they wanted him out is some didn't like his west waterford accent and that he delegated too much responsibility. He is the manager, not the coach, they are seperate roles with seperate responsibilities. One trains the team in training sessions and the other glues the whole thing together between selectors, players, media, county board, team talks, etc. He sourounded himself with hurling men and did what was asked of him. The performances were there. In the last 5 years other counties like limerick, clare, cork dublin and galway have come out of periods of unrest and panels that were way behind in the modern game. It was easy for waterford to be number 3 during this time. Any time we played kilkenny during this time it never at once looked like we would beat them. They often played us in 3rd gear and won by 7 points or more. This year was the first time since 98 before cody came in, that it looked like we could beat kilkenny. I really felt we were finally heading in the right direction. Now these 18 cowards have destroyed all that. They have put themselves under huge pressure for the next 3 years to get results. If they fail, this mess they have put us in will be thrown back at them. We had a good thing going here, excellent fitness trainers, a good defence coach in Cullinane who was our best full back of all time, a good trainer in Cunningham from limerick and a decent man with no ego to glue it all together. I dont think i can ever forgive those 18 backstabbing cowards for what they've done if they have ended up destroying the improvements we were making under this present management.

Out of order! I have a feeling you'll be going into the referee's notebook for that post!!

Sam Swarek

smashey wrote: »

The way you are going here, that is most unlikely. In fact, the opposite is quite probable.

people would want to lighten up and not take things so seriously!!

seananigans

http://examiner.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/former-deise-chief-blasts-players-role-in-ryan-exit-239782.html


the players really need to make a statement

rebel girl 15

allcounty infracted for personal abuse, you can't be going around calling people idiots, especially after an on thread warning to stop things getting personal

My patience is wearing very thin with a number of posters on here - respond to the post, but without trying to wind people up, some people taking this thread as their personal playground and its not going to be tolerated. Final warning - next time mods will be straight banning

smashey

Sam Swarek wrote: »

people would want to lighten up and not take things so seriously!!

And people would want to stop taking cheap shots

Pride Fighter

Sam Swarek wrote: »

people would want to lighten up and not take things so seriously!!

You'd want to follow the forum rules or else you will get banned pretty quickly

Take a read at the following link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056682165

Sam Swarek

Pride Fighter wrote: »

You'd want to follow the forum rules or else you will get banned pretty quickly

Take a read at the following link http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056682165

Yeah alright whatever

doz

seananigans wrote: »

http://examiner.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/former-deise-chief-blasts-players-role-in-ryan-exit-239782.html


the players really need to make a statement

Couldn't agree more. I think it's imperative that they do so before Michael Ryan goes on rte tomorrow night. Say what you will about the Cork and Limerick player's actions but from memory at least the players made a statement at the time. The silence in Waterford is deafening and this saga is becoming more damaging with each passing day, with potential rifts and bad will abounding everywhere. The players need to clarify why they took the action they did.

cornerboy

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/its-time-for-waterford-players-to-stand-tall-29497258.html

Mountainlad

doz wrote: »

Couldn't agree more. I think it's imperative that they do so before Michael Ryan goes on rte tomorrow night. Say what you will about the Cork and Limerick player's actions but from memory at least the players made a statement at the time. The silence in Waterford is deafening and this saga is becoming more damaging with each passing day, with potential rifts and bad will abounding everywhere. The players need to clarify why they took the action they did.

How do you make a statement from all the players, when you don't speak for everybody?

If only 11 showed up, how many of the ones that were rung actually knew the full extent of what was goin g on in the meeting? Those that wwould have been against the vote would probably not be happy that there voiuce was not heard during the meeting.

How would they feel now, if a collective statement with their names pinned to it was released now given they don't share the same views?

Mountainlad

cornerboy wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/its-time-for-waterford-players-to-stand-tall-29497258.html

Desperately unfair. I wonder was he so scathing of Cork and Limerick? I think that lack of respect afforded to Ryan and the minor hurlers on Sunday was terrible. Player power, however, is not an idea that had it's inception in Waterford.

doz

Mountainlad wrote: »

How do you make a statement from all the players, when you don't speak for everybody?

If only 11 showed up, how many of the ones that were rung actually knew the full extent of what was goin g on in the meeting? Those that wwould have been against the vote would probably not be happy that there voiuce was not heard during the meeting.

How would they feel now, if a collective statement with their names pinned to it was released now given they don't share the same views?

Fair points but these were the sort of issues that should have been considered before they went ahead with it. It was not rocket science to consider that all the players might not necessarily be in agreement. To me this again underlines that this was an ill thought out course of action. Rightly or wrongly, the players have now left themselves open to serious criticism which will likely continue until some clarification is obtained.

seananigans

cornerboy wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/its-time-for-waterford-players-to-stand-tall-29497258.html

Brilliant article

IN these difficult days for hotels, establishments in Waterford might profitably promote their premises as suitable locations for meetings of rebellious hurlers plotting an insurrection against the county manager.

cornerboy

Mountainlad wrote: »

Desperately unfair. I wonder was he so scathing of Cork and Limerick? I think that lack of respect afforded to Ryan and the minor hurlers on Sunday was terrible. Player power, however, is not an idea that had it's inception in Waterford.

He kind of describes it as it would appear to most who are looking in from outside. Players problem is that they don't have credibility........they haven't been good enough to win an All Ireland and instead of questioning themselves have undermined successive managers. You can argue against that summary but that is how it will appear to most.

Ropaire

cornerboy wrote: »

He kind of describes it as it would appear to most who are looking in from outside. Players problem is that they don't have credibility........they haven't been good enough to win an All Ireland and instead of questioning themselves have undermined successive managers. You can argue against that summary but that is how it will appear to most.

Alot of people on this thread have said the same thing. How many people praised Ryan after the Kilkenny game and said we played as well as we could in it?

robopaddy

Mountainlad wrote: »

How do you make a statement from all the players, when you don't speak for everybody?

If only 11 showed up, how many of the ones that were rung actually knew the full extent of what was goin g on in the meeting? Those that wwould have been against the vote would probably not be happy that there voiuce was not heard during the meeting.

How would they feel now, if a collective statement with their names pinned to it was released now given they don't share the same views?

This is the big thing now from the players point of view I would say. I wonder how much communication there actually is between them at the moment. It looks to me that they are lacking leadership and direction in all of this and the whole thing is pretty unorganised. Unless they are all going to appear together as a show of unity for a press conference like Cork did a few years ago the time of the strikes.

But if the vote was as divisive as were led to believe I cant see this happening

What a shambles

hardybuck

There will be blame on all sides here. At the end of every season, particularly when a manager has completed his time in charge and may be considering applying for an extension, a review process should kick in. Fix it for September or October every year.

When a manager is appointed, like anyone in any job, they should be asked to agree a series of goals and objectives with the Board. Performance can be tracked against these goals in the review process. It's fair and transparent. If events have taken place outside of the managers control which have impacted the achievement of said goals, these can be discussed and taken into consideration in the review.

Part of the issue with the squad voting system is that the squad is fluid. Players will come and go, normally by the decision of the manager. 6 or 7 of this years squad who may have voted against Ryan might be culled next year. To get around this, the team captain should survey the opinions of the players, and provide feedback as part of the review process. Unless there are serious concerns with the manager's performance, you shouldn't see a repeat of that farce of a vote taking place as the same day as the minors big day.

So, as a result of the laissez faire, sloppy and unstructured approach to the appointment of managers by the Board, incidents like this are allowed to occur. The players should be provided with a platform to provide their opinions and feedback, but not this sort of messing.

seananigans

Isn't it a given that 15 of the 30 are likely to be dissatisfied due to lack fo gametime?

seems a bit harsh when the swing of the vote was 3 individuals.

not knowing the breakdown but it's possible 12 of the 15 starters could have voted on him staying .

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

Desperately unfair. I wonder was he so scathing of Cork and Limerick? I think that lack of respect afforded to Ryan and the minor hurlers on Sunday was terrible. Player power, however, is not an idea that had it's inception in Waterford.

Not a big fan of Breheney and he's a bit of a sensationalist at the best of times and he's actual knowledge of the game of hurling leaves alot to be desired, but when you get past he's window dressing and he's attempted humor he actually is pretty close to the money on this one.

I mean who exactly do these Waterford players think they are? I'm not trying to be harsh here but they are so far out of line its not funny and they have zero achievements to actually back it up.

They have put the Waterford county board in an awfull position aswell - the simple fact is that the money is not there to attract a big name from outside and there doesn't seem to be a big name within that will satisfy them, the board are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here and it needs to be resolved fairly promptly as you are going to have the likes of Gleeson, Bennett, Curran and Foran coming in over the next 24 months and the last thing they need at that age is coming into a divided panel who are also at loggerheads with the County Board.

robopaddy

premierstone wrote: »

Not a big fan of Breheney and he's a bit of a sensationalist at the best of times and he's actual knowledge of the game of hurling leaves alot to be desired, but when you get past he's window dressing and he's attempted humor he actually is pretty close to the money on this one.

I mean who exactly do these Waterford players think they are? I'm not trying to be harsh here but they are so far out of line its not funny and they have zero achievements to actually back it up.

They have put the Waterford county board in an awfull position aswell - the simple fact is that the money is not there to attract a big name from outside and there doesn't seem to be a big name within that will satisfy them, the board are kind of caught between a rock and a hard place here and it needs to be resolved fairly promptly as you are going to have the likes of Gleeson, Bennett, Curran and Foran coming in over the next 24 months and the last thing they need at that age is coming into a divided panel who are also at loggerheads with the County Board.

This is what has come as a shock to everyone. It is widely accepted that there are no apparant ego's or prima donna's in this group. All that dead wood has been moved on under Ryan. A lot of the panel are very young many still under 21 or just out of it and hard to imagine it was many of them instigating this. Most of the older players would be known as being fairly honest and grounded individuals, as youd have in every other county so it really is hard to fathom where all this has come from.

The only conclusion you can draw is that it must have been a pretty desperate situation, a lot different to the view that would have been gathered from outside the camp looking in

premierstone

robopaddy wrote: »

This is what has come as a shock to everyone. It is widely accepted that there are no apparant ego's or prima donna's in this group. All that dead wood has been moved on under Ryan. A lot of the panel are very young many still under 21 or just out of it and hard to imagine it was many of them instigating this. Most of the older players would be known as being fairly honest and grounded individuals, as youd have in every other county so it really is hard to fathom where all this has come from

Yeah agree with all that, It really would be intruiging to see a list of the players who voted in favoutr of removing Ryan and who exactly was behind calling the meeting.

doz

premierstone wrote: »

Yeah agree with all that, It really would be intruiging to see a list of the players who voted in favoutr of removing Ryan and who exactly was behind calling the meeting.

Sorry to bring this issue up again as I know it is detested here but I have no doubt that the East-West divide would be strongly illustrated if we ever got a list of how players voted. I know a couple of players from the West (not Fourmilewater men) personally who would have always been behind Ryan in the past. I think you can also assume that players from his own club would have strongly supported him.

Brad1234

Can anyone tell me why it was released at half time on Sunday and why it was ordered to do so.. Could they have not kept council till after the minor final at least.

For a management team with 'no ego' seems very egotistical to me? Ive heard the ah it would leak but i think a lot of us knew there would be a challenge for his job coming as i was informed the week after the KK game ..

County Boards nose out of joint also so happy enough to create chaos.. Players getting all the bashing here but the speed in which it came out was ridiculous..

Also on Breheny article.. If he is going to do an article on a national newspaper at least get the actual facts and dont take sound bites off fellas who are going around like chinese whisper... His stance against waterford is not surprising as he is articles are so 'old school' i wouldnt even wipe my arse with it..

cornerboy

robopaddy wrote: »

This is what has come as a shock to everyone. It is widely accepted that there are no apparant ego's or prima donna's in this group. All that dead wood has been moved on under Ryan. A lot of the panel are very young many still under 21 or just out of it and hard to imagine it was many of them instigating this. Most of the older players would be known as being fairly honest and grounded individuals, as youd have in every other county so it really is hard to fathom where all this has come from.

The only conclusion you can draw is that it must have been a pretty desperate situation, a lot different to the view that would have been gathered from outside the camp looking in

I'm reliably told the split was nearly East / West. All western players except one notable and one other voted with Ryan.

Deise_2012

I've heard off a few people that Brick and Molumphy along with Mullane on the outside were the ones who orchestrated the players meeting and as a result, Kevin Moran phoned Michael Ryan to let them know of their decision. I don't think Ryan will give much away on thursday, not in his character to let rip at certain individuals

doz

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I've heard off a few people that Brick and Molumphy along with Mullane on the outside were the ones who orchestrated the players meeting and as a result, Kevin Moran phoned Michael Ryan to let them know of their decision. I don't think Ryan will give much away on thursday, not in his character to let rip at certain individuals

With respect I'm not sure it's in order for anyone to be posting rumours naming individual players unless we get something confirmed. I have heard a number of other versions of events that do not implicate any of those players so maybe we should just wait and see if we get a full story.

robopaddy

Deise_2012 wrote: »

I've heard off a few people that Brick and Molumphy along with Mullane on the outside were the ones who orchestrated the players meeting and as a result, Kevin Moran phoned Michael Ryan to let them know of their decision. I don't think Ryan will give much away on thursday, not in his character to let rip at certain individuals

Mullane says publicly he had nothing to do with and thats good enough for me. Brick and Molumphy both very loyal guys aswell would be surprised if that was true

Deise_2012

I'm not saying it's true either, I was very surprised to hear the people named were supposedly involved. Mullane said publicly that he won't return but I really think should they get Derek Mcgrath that he'l be back playing next year

lovelypoint

seananigans wrote: »

http://examiner.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/former-deise-chief-blasts-players-role-in-ryan-exit-239782.html

I can see where Paddy Joe Ryan is coming from, but the following quote from that article would disturb me a little about the perception/ definition of success and failure within the county by some, and the level of ambition:

He hailed the progress made over the two-year term and the foundations laid. “Most people think that Waterford overachieved last year."

That was immediately followed by: "He was building a new team and bringing on new players. Everybody felt that he was going in the right direction.”

I think there has been far too much accorded to moral victories, and green shoots, and we need to focus on real success, imo.

lovelypoint

cornerboy wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/its-time-for-waterford-players-to-stand-tall-29497258.html

At these times, you really wish people would remove their nose from Waterford affairs, and simply let us get on with things. The sooner this is put to bed by the media, the better, imo.

lovelypoint

hardybuck wrote: »

There will be blame on all sides here. At the end of every season, particularly when a manager has completed his time in charge and may be considering applying for an extension, a review process should kick in. Fix it for September or October every year.

When a manager is appointed, like anyone in any job, they should be asked to agree a series of goals and objectives with the Board. Performance can be tracked against these goals in the review process. It's fair and transparent. If events have taken place outside of the managers control which have impacted the achievement of said goals, these can be discussed and taken into consideration in the review.

Part of the issue with the squad voting system is that the squad is fluid. Players will come and go, normally by the decision of the manager. 6 or 7 of this years squad who may have voted against Ryan might be culled next year. To get around this, the team captain should survey the opinions of the players, and provide feedback as part of the review process. Unless there are serious concerns with the manager's performance, you shouldn't see a repeat of that farce of a vote taking place as the same day as the minors big day.

So, as a result of the laissez faire, sloppy and unstructured approach to the appointment of managers by the Board, incidents like this are allowed to occur. The players should be provided with a platform to provide their opinions and feedback, but not this sort of messing.

I would agree wholeheartedly with all this, and think any future success will be built on proper structures and mechanisms, and allow our energies to be focussed on the things that truly matter.

seananigans

lovelypoint wrote: »

At these times, you really wish people would remove their nose from Waterford affairs, and simply let us get on with things. The sooner this is put to bed by the media, the better, imo.

It's nto for the media to put it to bed, i's the players ,and you would hope an apology would be in there somewhere

premierstone

lovelypoint wrote: »

I can see where Paddy Joe Ryan is coming from, but the following quote from that article would disturb me a little about the perception/ definition of success and failure within the county by some, and the level of ambition:

He hailed the progress made over the two-year term and the foundations laid. “Most people think that Waterford overachieved last year."

That was immediately followed by: "He was building a new team and bringing on new players. Everybody felt that he was going in the right direction.”

I think there has been far too much accorded to moral victories, and green shoots, and we need to focus on real success, imo.

lovelypoint wrote: »

At these times, you really wish people would remove their nose from Waterford affairs, and simply let us get on with things. The sooner this is put to bed by the media, the better, imo.

Can you actually remember where Waterford were when Michael Ryan took over, of course the last two years were a success and yes absolutely they were heading in the right direction.

Its a national story whether you like or not and of course it will be covered in the national media, the players were man enough to hold a meeting behind Ryan's back and oust him, then they can be man enough to deal with the consequences.

lovelypoint

seananigans wrote: »

It's nto for the media to put it to bed

True enough, I should have said 'in the media', I think

lovelypoint

premierstone wrote: »

Can you actually remember where Waterford were when Michael Ryan took over, of course the last two years were a success and yes absolutely they were heading in the right direction.

Its a national story whether you like or not and of course it will be covered in the national media, the players were man enough to hold a meeting behind Ryan's back and oust him, then they can be man enough to deal with the consequences.

I do know where Waterford were, and while I can see positives from the last two years, I just can't see anything more substantial. So while I respect what Michael Ryan and his team brought to Waterford the last two years, harshly or not, as a county Waterford are being left behind unfortunately. Some may point to the players available, and I acknowledge the absences this year, but for me I just cannot see the team getting up to the levels achieved by Cork/ Clare/ Dublin/ Limerick, even if we had another year. And of course, that is not to mention Kilkenny/ Tipp/ Galway, who before this year would have been regarded as the top of the pile.

I have a lot of time for Michael Ryan and bear no malice of any sort, in fact I have been prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt all along and give him time, but two years I would argue is enough to see where things are going, and I would argue the 18 players in question felt that way too. I know others, especially outside Waterford might disagree with me, but I would not see the player pool available to Cork for example being dramatically greater than what we have available at the moment in Waterford, so the argument that Waterford have not had the players to go further is not one I would personally agree with.

Re: the media, I can see how they are all over this, I just harbour an issue with many of the premature conclusions drawn before any reasonably full clarity of the situation has been reached yet.

Once again, these are my own personal views, and don't expect to persuade anyone of the above, especially with regard to the highly speculative and personal area of perceived potential.

Mr Tibbs

premierstone wrote: »

Can you actually remember where Waterford were when Michael Ryan took over, of course the last two years were a success and yes absolutely they were heading in the right direction.

Its a national story whether you like or not and of course it will be covered in the national media, the players were man enough to hold a meeting behind Ryan's back and oust him, then they can be man enough to deal with the consequences.

About a week after the Kilkenny game I was in company and we were discussing the progress made under Michael Ryan. I said next year he should have a better hand to play with and I was interrupted by a clubmate of mine saying Michael Ryan wont be there next year. I said that would be stupid and I got the answer back, wait and see. Chuck O'Connor, Derek McGrath and Paul Flynn want the job. Chuck as manager and the lads as selectors. So I dont really know after that, but the way this was done on a Sunday when we were all celebrating our minor win was atrocious timing.

parish girl

I wonder where does Paddy Joe think we over achieved this year? Was it in beating Westmeath or Offaly cos in d Championship thats all we did. If this is the height of expectations we are going backwards quick

robopaddy

Just read Breheny's article there the man is only a toe-rag in my eyes. He hasnt a clue what hes talking about slating the players like that when he dosent know the facts. Very unfair and wont ever be taking anything he has to say serious again not that I ever did anyway. Gutter journalism at its worst some people would do well to remember that these players are only human aswell and ameteur sportspeople at that.:mad: