Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

premierstone

Since when were CB's expected to consult with players as to whom should be the manager, I certainly don't get to pick my boss, does anyone else?

And what players do you consult? Should you not consult with every single eligible adult hurler in the county as techniclly once Michael Ryan's tenure was up, there was no panel in place, meaning those 'men' who attended that meeting Sunday morning are no different to the few boys down the pub.

seananigans

noiniho wrote: »

One or two walking in that instance is being very very optimistic, these steps werent taken to keep one or two happy.

unhappy on the team or unhappy in the stands? i know which one i'd pick ,we can't allow the players to dictate like this, it's a horrible precedent

noiniho

Mountainlad wrote: »

He didn't resign. He "officially informed them he would not be seeking the posiiton" the County Board statement subsequently then indicated if he decided to apply it would be considered.

So the suggestions that they may be talking him into going for it again may not be far wide of the mark.

But I agree the situation is an awful mess.

I suppose the point I am making is that it was totally unnecessarey for what has happened in the last week to be played out in the public eye, the meeting deciding on who the new manager is will not take place until September, why oh why oh why does the whole county have to be talking about this for the next month, with everyone looking in.
No candidate neeeded to be put forward last week, and no candidtate (ryan obviously) needed to pull out last week either, this situation should have been dealt with in house for the last week and resolved one way or the other, instead we are washing our dirty linen in public again. There are so many wrongs on all sides it would make you despair!

Jesus I would have thought a basic for any high profile (ish) team any where in the world is, that in times of crisis, never tell the public anything until you absolutely have to.
Considering that Ryan is now going for the job again, This all came out before it needed too, what a farce

Motivator

premierstone wrote: »

And what players do you consult? Should you not consult with every single eligible adult hurler in the county as techniclly once Michael Ryan's tenure was up, there was no panel in place, meaning those 'men' who attended that meeting Sunday morning are no different to the few boys down the pub.

I'm pissing myself laughing but it's a valid point. He mightn't have had some of the lads that attended on the panel next year.

noiniho

seananigans wrote: »

unhappy on the team or unhappy in the stands? i know which one i'd pick ,we can't allow the players to dictate like this, it's a horrible precedent

Player power is terrible and it does sicken me on this issue, I am not on the players side at all on this one, but I was just pointing out that the fall out will be alot more extreme then one or two players.

But you know what it is an amatuer game, if fellas dont want to play they dont have too, and there eill always be someone to fill that Waterford jersey.

noiniho

premierstone wrote: »

Since when were CB's expected to consult with players as to whom should be the manager, I certainly don't get to pick my boss, does anyone else?

And what players do you consult? Should you not consult with every single eligible adult hurler in the county as techniclly once Michael Ryan's tenure was up, there was no panel in place, meaning those 'men' who attended that meeting Sunday morning are no different to the few boys down the pub.

Of course you are right, isnt it a dangerous precedent?

(This is a purely hypothetical scenario)
Lets just say for harms sake there are 4 high profile all stars in a middle of the road team, who are entering into their mid - 30's and look like they are no longer going to be selected by their current manager, these players, being playing legends, hold huge influence over their younger team mates... realising they are coming to the end of the road, they oust the manager and as they have an input with the county board, influence the appointment of a man who will continue to pick them for a few more seasons.

how damaging would that be? there is a fine line here and what is it exactly the players want? because if they get what they want then the above scenario could happen.

premierstone

noiniho wrote: »

Of course you are right, isnt it a dangerous precedent?

(This is a purely hypothetical scenario)
Lets just say for harms sake there are 4 high profile all stars in a middle of the road team, who are entering into their mid - 30's and look like they are no longer going to be selected by their current manager, these players, being playing legends, hold huge influence over their younger team mates... realising they are coming to the end of the road, they oust the manager and as they have an input with the county board, influence the appointment of a man who will continue to pick them for a few more seasons.

how damaging would that be? there is a fine line here and what is it exactly the players want? because if they get what they want then the above scenario could happen.

Exactly, I have no problem with players views been taking into consideration when an appointment is being mde but to go the whole way and more or less let them dictate who does and more importantly who doesn't get the job is a very very dangerous step and frankly one that there is no road back from.

Something that annoys the sh*t out of me in Hurling and my fellow county men are as guilty if not more so than anyone is this line that gets thrown out regurarly ''would this happen in Kilkenny?'' well there isn't a snow balls chance in hell that the KK county board would allow players to dictate like this, player power is a bit of a pet hate of mine and some guys need to realise that been selected to represent your county at the highest level is a privilage and not a right.

Horseboxhead

I love lamp.

hardybuck

Often in the workplace, workers will give feedback on their manager. It's called 360 degree feedback...

It would be arrogant to think that there will always be someone available to fill the Waterford jersey. Not many people would be willing and able to provide as much commitment as these guys. And before anyone says that they'd give their eye teeth for the chance - you give yourself the chance through a lifetime of dedication and hard work.

Their views are completely valid, but should not have come out in this fashion. If there was a proper review process or forum provided by the County Board, this wouldn't have been allowed to happen.

We're going in circles. There is a vacant senior manager role to be filled, exactly the same as after the KK defeat. Nominations or applications will come in, and Ryan will either apply for it or he won't.

Keanes Road

hardybuck wrote: »

Often in the workplace, workers will give feedback on their manager. It's called 360 degree feedback...

It would be arrogant to think that there will always be someone available to fill the Waterford jersey. Not many people would be willing and able to provide as much commitment as these guys. And before anyone says that they'd give their eye teeth for the chance - you give yourself the chance through a lifetime of dedication and hard work.

Their views are completely valid, but should not have come out in this fashion. If there was a proper review process or forum provided by the County Board, this wouldn't have been allowed to happen.

We're going in circles. There is a vacant senior manager role to be filled, exactly the same as after the KK defeat. Nominations or applications will come in, and Ryan will either apply for it or he won't.

Ryan got word on Thursday there was a few issues. According to himself, he rang 8 players and 3 of them said straight out they were unhappy. Why didn't Ryan grasp the nettle then and call these lads together.

Even when the shambolic meeting was called on Sunday, look at the time line of events after that. The players had to get in touch with Ryan and the county board you would assume. All these fellas were travelling. It seems as soon as Ryan got the ill advised call he made his mind up not to go for re selection. Not one person seemed to have a cool head. Ryan ( his back room team, if he bothered to consult them) or the county board, not one of them said let's hold fire and meet these lads tomorrow before we make any hasty decisions.

Ryan in haste made the wrong call and the county board fired the whole thing out in the public domain within a few hours of the meeting. Now Ryan upon mature reflection is having second thoughts.

What we still don't know is what the players wanted, was there a call for change or was there an ultimatum given. I have yet to hear from anyone categorically that they players were refusing to work with Ryan next season or that they would withdraw their services if he was re elected.

parish girl

You d have to wonder what kind of relationship the Manager had with the players. The dogs in the street knew there were issues, even the lads that supported him said there ought to be changes and yet he thought there were no problems.

I agree the whole thing was clumsily handled by the players but it appears that time was not on their side.

What I'd like to know is why the county board had to put the word out with such haste. Why put the word out at HT in minor game. As some one said previously Manager contract was up, and it was nt as if we were still in championship and needed a manager now. Something fishy about the whole thing. Obviously done to embarrass the players

Mountainlad

parish girl wrote: »

You d have to wonder what kind of relationship the Manager had with the players. The dogs in the street knew there were issues, even the lads that supported him said there ought to be changes and yet he thought there were no problems.

I agree the whole thing was clumsily handled by the players but it appears that time was not on their side.

What I'd like to know is why the county board had to put the word out with such haste. Why put the word out at HT in minor game. As some one said previously Manager contract was up, and it was nt as if we were still in championship and needed a manager now. Something fishy about the whole thing. Obviously done to embarrass the players

There's an awful lot of selective reading and misquoting going around. He said plenty of players over the course of the year had suggestions and things they weren't happy with and that they addressed those issues.

"The dogs on the street" often tend to spend a bit too much time warming bar stools with little to talk about. What Michael Ryan meant at the end was he obviously felt there was no issues so great that would prompt the team to seek him to be removed as Waterford manager.

One thing I would assure you is that he contacts players regularly. It certainly wasn't a lack of communication from manager to players over the course of the year that caused this issue. Given he was the one that said that the lads that supported him felt there needed to be some changes (that doesn't neccesarily mean replacement of personnel let it be acknowledged) how could you take that up that he was oblivious to it, given the words came directily from his mouth.


What is clear is there was a seriously communication breakdown on the County boards part, and as annoyed as I am that 11 players felt they could hold a meeting to speak for a panel, I have grown increasingly annoyed with every breaking story on this with regard to the board.

seananigans

noiniho wrote: »

I suppose the point I am making is that it was totally unnecessarey for what has happened in the last week to be played out in the public

I think it was important and neecessary it was played out in public, it let's the CB know that they have the support, without public opinion behind the players, they are likely to reconsider their position.

Ballyvoile Boy

hardybuck wrote: »

Often in the workplace, workers will give feedback on their manager. It's called 360 degree feedback...

It would be arrogant to think that there will always be someone available to fill the Waterford jersey. Not many people would be willing and able to provide as much commitment as these guys. And before anyone says that they'd give their eye teeth for the chance - you give yourself the chance through a lifetime of dedication and hard work.

Their views are completely valid, but should not have come out in this fashion. If there was a proper review process or forum provided by the County Board, this wouldn't have been allowed to happen.

We're going in circles. There is a vacant senior manager role to be filled, exactly the same as after the KK defeat. Nominations or applications will come in, and Ryan will either apply for it or he won't.

I agree completely. I have no reason to doubt that Michael Ryan is a gent and a solid hurling man, as everyone keeps pointing out. The manner in which it all unfolded publicly may have been unfair to him, but I wouldn't castigate the players either. We have officials appointed to look after these matters and not to let the matter get fed to the the hungry media pack.

Is it true that Michael Ryan said he was already putting together a new backroom team? If so, what about the volunteers who gave of their time until now - Ray Murphy, Sean Cullianane etc. and anyone else involved - are they not also solid hurling men? Why is there no clamour about the fact that any of backroom team were due to be sidelined in a deal for a new managerial term? Surely those due to be left behind are also worthy of sympathy and here's the question - who decided they should go and that the outgoing manager should stay? How does one evaluate the gentlemanly behaviour in that process?

The reality is that a number of pundits (none of them from Waterford as it happens) see an opportunity to get headlines for themselves and are being successful. It matters not to them that this whole thing could set us back years as a county. Michael Ryan obviously feels hurt that the 2013 panel were not unanimous in wanting to work with him again in 2014 and that is understandable. So maybe it's time to ask how those who were not be asked back by him how they feel about it all......

Mr Tibbs

[QUOTE=Mountainlad;86033910
What is clear is there was a seriously communication breakdown on the County boards part, and as annoyed as I am that 11 players felt they could hold a meeting to speak for a panel, I have grown increasingly annoyed with every breaking story on this with regard to the board.[/QUOTE]

And so say all of us. This arguement is just going arouund in circles and nobody is really sure of what really happened.
In a week we should be speculating about our minor hurler's chances in the up coming final here we are going on about the county board and player's who betrayed the manager.
Not one post on who we think we will be facing after Sunday in what is now the most important game for us this year. Pity really, I hope this won't effect the minor camps preparations as the timing of this announcement was a disgrace.

doz

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

And so say all of us. This arguement is just going arouund in circles and nobody is really sure of what really happened.
In a week we should be speculating about our minor hurler's chances in the up coming final here we are going on about the county board and player's who betrayed the manager.
Not one post on who we think we will be facing after Sunday in what is now the most important game for us this year. Pity really, I hope this won't effect the minor camps preparations as the timing of this announcement was a disgrace.

One word, as per Austin Gleeson, LIMERICK!!!

seananigans

Mr Tibbs wrote: »

And so say all of us. This arguement is just going arouund in circles and nobody is really sure of what really happened.
In a week we should be speculating about our minor hurler's chances in the up coming final here we are going on about the county board and player's who betrayed the manager.
Not one post on who we think we will be facing after Sunday in what is now the most important game for us this year. Pity really, I hope this won't effect the minor camps preparations as the timing of this announcement was a disgrace.

one would argue not having the focus on them might be of benefit ,we all enjoyed the run up to 08 there was electricity in the air, it might be better to be low profile

seananigans

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/michael-ryan-slams-deise-player-coup-29503402.html

read the comments

lovelypoint

seananigans wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/michael-ryan-slams-deise-player-coup-29503402.html

read the comments

Indo 'article' simply a straight transcript of Ryans interview on Championship Matters - is this supposed to count as journalism ? Cliona Foley should be ashamed.

doz

Full time scores from SHC this evening;

De La Salle 4-12 Lismore 2-12
Fourmilewater 0-18 An Rinn 0-12
Tallow 0-19 Ballyduff Upper 0-19

Lismore in real trouble now having lost 3 out of 4, an Rinn propping up the group. All to play from in final round of matches apart from De La Salle who are guaranteed to top the group.

seananigans

lovelypoint wrote: »

Indo 'article' simply a straight transcript of Ryans interview on Championship Matters - is this supposed to count as journalism ? Cliona Foley should be ashamed.

I was more reffering to the comments of the general hurling populace, it shows we're not alone in our opinion .

I always wonder how far this topic goes, do players read it do journalists?

I'd say there might be as many as 50x viewers to contributers in peak seaosn, like ATM

lovelypoint

seananigans wrote: »

I was more reffering to the comments of the general hurling populace, it shows we're not alone in our opinion .

Yes, I'm quite sure opinions here are shared elsewhere, but if you're relying on 6 comments on an article to vindicate *any* stance, I think you're reaching, no offense

chinguetti

So a week since the players meeting became some sort of knowledge to M Ryan and still the players have said nothing. Club matches on this weekend so hence the players are around and not in hiding. Will anyone ask the players what is/has gone on and why is appears that the players are split as only a third turned up at the meeting? The County Board won't ask from what we've seen so journalists will, as people on here are.

Are the players entitled to an opinion on their manager and training? Yes, without a doubt but not to decide who is in charge. But equally the supporters who travel to games and put a few quid into buckets for training funds are entitled to know why things are the way they are.

I would think that the players have lost a fair few supporters and will have alot of problems getting people back. There's a right way and a wrong way to do this and we're writing the book on the wrong way to deal with this kind of problem. When Cork went on strike, you had an united panel; with us, we're still waiting to know who was on the phone and who was in person.

The longer the players refuse to address what has gone on, the worse this will become. However as the panel seems to be split, this saga will run and run i fear.

seananigans

I think the players got their reality checked, scully didn't hit 15 wides against Clare,and unlike '08 no one is behind them

Best they quietly agreed to take him back and say the concerns were addressed.

our players might be amateur, but their attitude is moreso, the manager,a pro , I know who I want to have faith in

sid wallace

seananigans wrote: »

I think the players got their reality checked, scully didn't hit 15 wides against Clare,and unlike '08 no one is behind them

Best they quietly agreed to take him back and say the concerns were addressed.

our players might be amateur, but their attitude is moreso, the manager,a pro , I know who I want to have faith in

I am 100% behind the players and am very impressed that they had the moral courage for a young panel to get this underachiever out.

doz

sid wallace wrote: »

I am 100% behind the players and am very impressed that they had the moral courage for a young panel to get this underachiever out.

Each to their own but you would be in a serious minority if you are applauding the players for the disgraceful way in which they have behaved, whatever your thoughts on Michael Ryan.

Doesn't appear to me that there was too much moral courage either, more like a crowd of youngsters who were strung along by a few ring leaders.

sid wallace

doz wrote: »

Each to their own but you would be in a serious minority if you are applauding the players for the disgraceful way in which they have behaved, whatever your thoughts on Michael Ryan.

Doesn't appear to me that there was too much moral courage either, more like a crowd of youngsters who were strung along by a few ring leaders.

What's disgraceful about what they did? They had a meeting and they decided that they had enough of this lad holding them back and they communicated it to the county board. What's disgraceful about that?

Mountainlad

Apparently those that were out of the country were not contacted last Sunday.

seananigans

sid wallace wrote: »

I am 100% behind the players and am very impressed that they had the moral courage for a young panel to get this underachiever out.

Troll ,the bookies and his peers state overachievment , go troll somewhere else

seananigans

lovelypoint wrote: »

Yes, I'm quite sure opinions here are shared elsewhere, but if you're relying on 6 comments on an article to vindicate *any* stance, I think you're reaching, no offense

http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/hurling/2013/0815/468446-ryan-indicates-he-will-seek-waterford-job/

go again

doz

sid wallace wrote: »

What's disgraceful about what they did? They had a meeting and they decided that they had enough of this lad holding them back and they communicated it to the county board. What's disgraceful about that?

Small matter of deliberately holding it the morning of one of our minor team's greatest hours, having only 11 out of 30 present and not a single player has had the courage to come out and explain their actions? Also, as far as I was aware the County Board was mandated to select the county manager and not the players, seems to be the way it works in all other counties? On what basis has he been 'holding' them back?

noiniho

seananigans wrote: »

Troll ,the bookies and his peers state overachievment , go troll somewhere else

You can almost count on one hand the amount of hurling counties that play hurling seriously at inter county level, any of those teams that doesn't reach a quarter final had had a poor year

sid wallace

seananigans wrote: »

Troll ,the bookies and his peers state overachievment , go troll somewhere else

Troll? Because I disagree with you?

Lookit. These players realise that they have been hobbled from the start of the year by having this chap in charge. If they didn't have this hopeless case running the team they would have had a once in a generation chance of winning an All Ireland. Instead three inferior outfits are battling it out for the big prize.

Did you ever ask yourself why Cody, JBM and Loughnane want Ryan to stay on? Because they want to hold Waterford back that's why.

chinguetti

sid wallace wrote: »

What's disgraceful about what they did? They had a meeting and they decided that they had enough of this lad holding them back and they communicated it to the county board. What's disgraceful about that?

So if Michael Ryan held the players back, the players, regardless of who manages them next year, will keep Waterford in Division 1 and win Munster and get to play in September in Croker?

I do find it sad that people are blaming Ryan for hitting wides and poor shot selection when he isn't even a player.

I find it amazing how when a team loses, the manager is always blamed but when a team win, tis the players. Wasn't it Babs that said there's 6 inches between a slap in the arse and a pat on the back?

doz

Mountainlad wrote: »

Apparently those that were out of the country were not contacted last Sunday.

Do you have any idea how many were reported to have been out of the country? Trying to piece all together all the various things I've heard to come up with the full picture.

sid wallace

doz wrote: »

Small matter of deliberately holding it the morning of one of our minor team's greatest hours, having only 11 out of 30 present and not a single player has had the courage to come out and explain their actions? Also, as far as I was aware the County Board was mandated to select the county manager and not the players, seems to be the way it works in all other counties? On what basis has he been 'holding' them back?

Should the players not have any opinion on who should manage the team? Aren't they best placed to assess the ability of the manager?

Mountainlad

doz wrote: »

Do you have any idea how many were reported to have been out of the country? Trying to piece all together all the various things I've heard to come up with the full picture.

I'll PM you Doz, I posted that because other things I heard from the saem source have turned out to be true, but reluctant to add to much to the rumour mill all the same.

doz

sid wallace wrote: »

Troll? Because I disagree with you?

LIf they didn't have this hopeless case running the team they would have had a once in a generation chance of winning an All Ireland. Instead three inferior outfits are battling it out for the big prize.

With respect, any person who believes we had a genuine chance of winning an AI this year is completely deluded. Don't think you'll find many who feel that Cork, Limerick and Clare are inferior sides either. We're not far off them but these teams have been far more clinical in taking their scores when it counted. As has been mentioned several times, Michael Ryan wasn't firing wides to beat the band during the Championship.

sid wallace

chinguetti wrote: »

So if Michael Ryan held the players back, the players, regardless of who manages them next year, will keep Waterford in Division 1 and win Munster and get to play in September in Croker?

I do find it sad that people are blaming Ryan for hitting wides and poor shot selection when he isn't even a player.

I find it amazing how when a team loses, the manager is always blamed but when a team win, tis the players. Wasn't it Babs that said there's 6 inches between a slap in the arse and a pat on the back?

Do you not think that if they had a proper coach they may have hit less wides? No?

seananigans

sid wallace wrote: »

Troll? Because I disagree with you?

Lookit. These players realise that they have been hobbled from the start of the year by having this chap in charge. If they didn't have this hopeless case running the team they would have had a once in a generation chance of winning an All Ireland. Instead three inferior outfits are battling it out for the big prize.

Did you ever ask yourself why Cody, JBM and Loughnane want Ryan to stay on? Because they want to hold Waterford back that's why.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=internet%20troll


An internet troll is a person who uses anonymity to cause frustration, anger, impatience or to generally be disruptive for no seemingly good reason EXCEPT to be that nuisance.

Most are souless bastards, touched by daddy/priest, and in the stead of coping with that trauma in a healthy way, take out their aggression, anger, impotence, frustration on others.

-have problems forming real-life relationships; have a hard time attracting members of the opposite/same sex,generally introverts. Though some are 'trolls-in-hiding', most are skill-less loners.

General troll behavior:disruptive forum posts; the posts are generally off-topic, or unnecessarily combative. Each contemporary popular website has its own sub-genre of troll

doz

Mountainlad wrote: »

I'll PM you Doz, I posted that because other things I heard from the saem source have turned out to be true, but reluctant to add to much to the rumour mill all the same.

Thanks, I have been deliberately not naming players on the forum but I can understand that further info could lead to rumours spiralling even further.

sid wallace

doz wrote: »

With respect, any person who believes we had a genuine chance of winning an AI this year is completely deluded. Don't think you'll find many who feel that Cork, Limerick and Clare are inferior sides either. We're not far off them but these teams have been far more clinical in taking their scores when it counted. As has been mentioned several times, Michael Ryan wasn't firing wides to beat the band during the Championship.

Eh well Waterford finished ahead of all these counties in the league - so how should we feel in any way inferior to them?

doz

sid wallace wrote: »

Should the players not have any opinion on who should manage the team? Aren't they best placed to assess the ability of the manager?

Yes, and yes, but there is a way of going about it and going around organising meetings to vote on a manager without having even half the panel present is not the way to do so. They have succeeded in dividing the panel at a time when it looked like we were in a good position going forward. They have also succeeded in angering supporters around the county.

seananigans

sid wallace wrote: »

Do you not think that if they had a proper coach they may have hit less wides? No?

then sack the coach, not the manager , listen troll ,off is the general direction i wish you to Fu*k

seananigans

doz wrote: »

Yes, and yes, but there is a way of going about it and going around organising meetings to vote on a manager without having even half the panel present is not the way to do so. They have succeeded in dividing the panel at a time when it looked like we were in a good position going forward. They have also succeeded in angering supporters around the county.

Around the country(world) , just because we are not in Waterford doesn't mean we are not of Waterford

sid wallace

seananigans wrote: »

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=internet%20troll


An internet troll is a person who uses anonymity to cause frustration, anger, impatience or to generally be disruptive for no seemingly good reason EXCEPT to be that nuisance.

Most are souless bastards, touched by daddy/priest, and in the stead of coping with that trauma in a healthy way, take out their aggression, anger, impotence, frustration on others.

-have problems forming real-life relationships; have a hard time attracting members of the opposite/same sex,generally introverts. Though some are 'trolls-in-hiding', most are skill-less loners.

General troll behavior:disruptive forum posts; the posts are generally off-topic, or unnecessarily combative. Each contemporary popular website has its own sub-genre of troll

Get out of it. I'm a soulless bastard because I agree with the people who have first hand experience of Michael Ryan's management "skills" that he is a hopeless case?

doz

sid wallace wrote: »

Eh well Waterford finished ahead of all these counties in the league - so how should we feel in any way inferior to them?

Please don't tell me you are going to try and use our league finish as a justification for a belief that we should be challenging for a place in an AI final? There's no feeling of inferiority, but until we can put more scores on the board when it counts (ie) Championship, we will remain behind these teams.

sid wallace

doz wrote: »

Yes, and yes, but there is a way of going about it and going around organising meetings to vote on a manager without having even half the panel present is not the way to do so. They have succeeded in dividing the panel at a time when it looked like we were in a good position going forward. They have also succeeded in angering supporters around the county.

Do you know how they organised the meeting?

seananigans

doz wrote: »

Please don't tell me you are going to try and use our league finish as a justification for a belief that we should be challenging for a place in an AI final? There's no feeling of inferiority, but until we can put more scores on the board when it counts (ie) Championship, we will remain behind these teams.

Can we all agree to ignore/report the troll ?

sid wallace

doz wrote: »

Please don't tell me you are going to try and use our league finish as a justification for a belief that we should be challenging for a place in an AI final? There's no feeling of inferiority, but until we can put more scores on the board when it counts (ie) Championship, we will remain behind these teams.

We beat Limerick every time we met them since 2001 and we beat Clare every time since 1998 (until this year). Last year was the first time Cork beat us since 2006. Of course we are as good as these counties - if we had a decent set up.