Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Psychedelic

Mountainlad wrote: »

I wouldn't be too harsh on Power he made a couple of good interventions and it didn't cost them the game by any means. He does need to work on that aspect of his game though because it's the reason he hasn't been Waterford keeper the last 2 years.

I haven't seen much of him, what aspect of his game do you mean? Catching?

lovelypoint

Psychedelic wrote: »

I haven't seen much of him, what aspect of his game do you mean? Catching?

Didn't see the game on Sunday, but my problem with what I've seen of Power, is he is often too gung-ho, often finding himself far from goal. If he could curb this tendency in his game, I think he would be an excellent senior goalkeeper, as his puckout range and shot-stopping are excellent. Also interested in others views, as he is excellent in so many ways, in my opinion

Deise Doodler

A lot of speculation on what managemet were about yesterday, we could all be eating our words yet as it is so early in the year, Squad has yet to be cut, will see then if yesterday was about poor decisions or last chances, clare were certainly fitter and better prepared yesterday but Davy seems to like this competition and it obvious they are alot further along than 1 month in to preperations, plenty of time to catch up. The lack of substitutes was baffeling yesterday but if they needed to give lads a fair shot before cutting then perhaps job done ? will have to wait and see

Finally I was delighted to see ringo back in action and rekon he didnt do to bad considering the overall context of the team preformance in fact thought the back line was one of the better lines for us yesterday

Mountainlad

Psychedelic wrote: »

I haven't seen much of him, what aspect of his game do you mean? Catching?

Yep

Deise Doodler wrote: »

A lot of speculation on what managemet were about yesterday, we could all be eating our words yet as it is so early in the year, Squad has yet to be cut, will see then if yesterday was about poor decisions or last chances, clare were certainly fitter and better prepared yesterday but Davy seems to like this competition and it obvious they are alot further along than 1 month in to preperations, plenty of time to catch up. The lack of substitutes was baffeling yesterday but if they needed to give lads a fair shot before cutting then perhaps job done ? will have to wait and see

Finally I was delighted to see ringo back in action and rekon he didnt do to bad considering the overall context of the team preformance in fact thought the back line was one of the better lines for us yesterday

I woudln't say anyway one is being premature and writing us off, but yesterday was bad. I wouldn't be too worried by the performance, but like the effort wasn't good enough like and from the managements point of view I'm disppointed more players weren't given a run, but maybe you're right and they wanted to see how the players progressed over the whole game before they decided to drop them.

IanVW

When is the panel being cut?

Deise_Davy

Cake Man wrote: »

Very disappointed with todays result and performance, after 10mins we just stopped playing. I think the only players to come out with some credit were Shane Fives, Dec Prender and Shane Walsh. Martin O'Neill did get two goals and a few points but was generally poor enough, too many players just weren't able to win their own ball. I know conditions were bad but Clare were able to adapt.

Why did we persist lobbing in ball to a two man FF line when the spare Clare sweeper was always on hand to mop up? And the spare man we used outfield (Eoin McGrath) was up to nothing.
Why was Dean Twomey not moved to midfield, he was lost at wing forward.

Mostly disappointed as there were plenty of first team players and it wasn't hugely experimental. Agree with previous posters asking what the benefit was playing fellas that we know about (EMcG, Dec Prender at full back etc.) and only make 2 subs (1 forced), just made no sense.

Dean Twomey was at midfield for the second half

Deise Doodler

IanVW wrote: »

When is the panel being cut?

Would imagine for the league,

deisebhoy17

Dickys Back Garden wrote: »

Today got me thinking though. I wonder were the efforts and approaches of Davy Fitz a little under valued during his time in Waterford. Its only February, early days yet and I suppose only time will tell.

Completely. Ive said that a few times on this blog a few times and been ridiculed for it. Davy did very well with us got us got us to AI smi final every year in charge its just a lot of people in this county refuse to believe that he had an average enough team to work with.

Theres no way hed have stood for Waterfords performance on Sunday no matter what competition it was. I know hes got his faults as a manager but Sunday opened my eyes aswell. Our management look like they haven't got a clue what theyre at. What was the point in playing a 2 man full forward line in a waterford crystal match? I was looking forward to seeing a lot of promising younglads being given a chance but it looks like the crystal has been a complete waste of time as far Im concerned. Nothing new learned, little or no young players blooded, a comprehensive beating by a very mediocre Clare team and the management havent got a clue what team they'll have going into the league. They need to buck up fast or wecould be heading for a short summer for the first time in a long time

Deise Doodler

Mountainlad wrote: »

Yep



I woudln't say anyway one is being premature and writing us off, but yesterday was bad. I wouldn't be too worried by the performance, but like the effort wasn't good enough like and from the managements point of view I'm disppointed more players weren't given a run, but maybe you're right and they wanted to see how the players progressed over the whole game before they decided to drop them.

Hope so,
As regards to your earlier post ref Maurice Shanahan and his running game I like to see it too but only if the support is there otherwise more often than not maurice seems to take to much out of and run in to a dead end. Defences will get to know this and wont commit as quick, the space wont open up as easily if the threat isnt as apparent

thesaviour

I have only come accross this forum today and it is good to see a thread dedicated to Waterford Gaa. Some good and genuine posters here and as usual some clowns.
I have a keen interest in Waterford Hurling and try to get to as many club and county games as possible, this year so far I have been to the trial matches and challenge and crystal cup games as they have all been in Cariganore or Walsh Park both within walking distance from me. I was looking forward to our new management team and still am but as has been alluded to here there are a few worrying signs. Michael Ryan said that they would look at as many new players as possible, yet in the two crystal cup matches it has been more or less the same old faces. Only two subs used yesterday and one of them enforced and the same the week before against UCC, a great chance lost to try out the extended panel. Do we really need to be flogging the likes of Brick, Moran, Shanes Sullivan and Walsh and the Penders in the muck at this time of the year.
As regards FMW, far from being favoured it looks the opposite to me. I saw them against DLS and Ballygunner last year and they looked a stylish and well organized outfit. Was Michael Ryan involved there last year? I am not one of the begrudgers and was delighted to see the O Gorman twins, Barron and Liam Lawlors brother on the panel, yet I was told today that the O Gormans and Barron have already left the panel without playing a meaningful match. Is all not well with his own up there? I think they would have been a good addition to the panel. Its not as if we have an abundance of corner backs on the panel. Maybe Mountainlad can fill us in.
Is it true that Brian O Sullivan has left the Panel?
Is last years DLS manager part of the backroom team?
Have we any semblance of a game plan? When Ryan was in charge of DLS the were a well drilled outfit and had their homework done on the opposition.
Which begs the question, who is managing this team?
Maybe I am a little harsh, but I have my doubts about this set up. Time is still on their side but they need to stop wasting it.

Mountainlad

thesaviour wrote: »

I have only come accross this forum today and it is good to see a thread dedicated to Waterford Gaa. Some good and genuine posters here and as usual some clowns.
I have a keen interest in Waterford Hurling and try to get to as many club and county games as possible, this year so far I have been to the trial matches and challenge and crystal cup games as they have all been in Cariganore or Walsh Park both within walking distance from me. I was looking forward to our new management team and still am but as has been alluded to here there are a few worrying signs. Michael Ryan said that they would look at as many new players as possible, yet in the two crystal cup matches it has been more or less the same old faces. Only two subs used yesterday and one of them enforced and the same the week before against UCC, a great chance lost to try out the extended panel. Do we really need to be flogging the likes of Brick, Moran, Shanes Sullivan and Walsh and the Penders in the muck at this time of the year.
As regards FMW, far from being favoured it looks the opposite to me. I saw them against DLS and Ballygunner last year and they looked a stylish and well organized outfit. Was Michael Ryan involved there last year? I am not one of the begrudgers and was delighted to see the O Gorman twins, Barron and Liam Lawlors brother on the panel, yet I was told today that the O Gormans and Barron have already left the panel without playing a meaningful match. Is all not well with his own up there? I think they would have been a good addition to the panel. Its not as if we have an abundance of corner backs on the panel. Maybe Mountainlad can fill us in.
Is it true that Brian O Sullivan has left the Panel?
Is last years DLS manager part of the backroom team?
Have we any semblance of a game plan? When Ryan was in charge of DLS the were a well drilled outfit and had their homework done on the opposition.
Which begs the question, who is managing this team?
Maybe I am a little harsh, but I have my doubts about this set up. Time is still on their side but they need to stop wasting it.

Seamus Lawlor is a cousin of Liam's. Jamie Barron is focusing on his leaving cert I believe. The O'Gormans are still on it from what I can see as Maurice was on the bench yesterday. The panel has not been cut yet, I heard that it was supposed to be cut last weekend. I'd say that Limerick challeneg will be the last chance to impress.

And Michael Ryan was not involved in the Fourmilewater setup last year.

dboss

And Michael Ryan was not involved in the Fourmilewater setup last year.[/QUOTE]
Michael Ryan was involved with Fourmilewater last year i seen him at one match
goin down from the stand telling the fourmile selectors what to do !

deiseach

Match report from yours truly here. It doesn't make for pleasant reading. And the match wasn't that good either. Hey-oh!

Mountainlad

dboss wrote: »

Michael Ryan was involved with Fourmilewater last year i seen him at one match
goin down from the stand telling the fourmile selectors what to do !

Nope. I'm sure he had his own opinions on what was happening in whatever match you were talking about and his advice would be respected but it was not neccesarily heeded as he had no influence in terms of authority of the team.

alllcounty

dboss wrote: »

And Michael Ryan was not involved in the Fourmilewater setup last year.

Michael Ryan was involved with Fourmilewater last year i seen him at one match
goin down from the stand telling the fourmile selectors what to do ![/QUOTE]

Strange calling up so many players from his own club and then not giving any of them an opportunity to play in the crystal tournament. What was the point in calling up new players if you are going to select the same players that have been there for the last 5 to 10 years or was there a change in mindset since the original call ups. In any case I know it is very early in the season but there are already worrying signs. After half time the team was completely flat, the players had no motivation to go on and push themselves. Skill levels were poor with players unable to pick the ball, missed passes but most strange was the lack of use of the bench. We went to this match to see a good spectacle with players pushing for places. Instead we saw a deflated team lack of ideas and lack of motivation. John Mullane said he wasn't enjoying the training sessions and has decided to take some time off. Based on the performance against clare it looks like there could be other players who feel the same. Hope i am wrong and in future there will be greater urgency shown.

Mountainlad

alllcounty wrote: »

Strange calling up so many players from his own club and then not giving any of them an opportunity to play in the crystal tournament. What was the point in calling up new players if you are going to select the same players that have been there for the last 5 to 10 years or was there a change in mindset since the original call ups. In any case I know it is very early in the season but there are already worrying signs. After half time the team was completely flat, the players had no motivation to go on and push themselves. Skill levels were poor with players unable to pick the ball, missed passes but most strange was the lack of use of the bench. We went to this match to see a good spectacle with players pushing for places. Instead we saw a deflated team lack of ideas and lack of motivation. John Mullane said he wasn't enjoying the training sessions and has decided to take some time off. Based on the performance against clare it looks like there could be other players who feel the same. Hope i am wrong and in future there will be greater urgency shown.

To be fair, Mullane said that last year as well.

premierstone

Ah lads will ye relax, its the Waterford Crystal ffs, nothing more than a challenge match, infact some of the challenge matches that will be played behind closed doors and ones between the panel will be far more intense than a tournament match played on a bog against a team that have been doing army like training since before christmass.

Now I may be wrong but it seems to me there are an awfull lot of Waterford people just waiting for Michael Ryan to fail and they are sharpening the knives already. Give the guy a chance FFS.

deiseach

premierstone wrote: »

Ah lads will ye relax, its the Waterford Crystal ffs, nothing more than a challenge match, infact some of the challenge matches that will be played behind closed doors and ones between the panel will be far more intense than a tournament match played on a bog against a team that have been doing army like training since before christmass.

Now I may be wrong but it seems to me there are an awfull lot of Waterford people just waiting for Michael Ryan to fail and they are sharpening the knives already. Give the guy a chance FFS.

I'm certainly not one for running down people. A fella strode up beside me after the game and launched into a bitter tirade against everyone involved with Waterford. I wanted to run a mile, I just don't like giving amateurs stick.

But that was terrible on Sunday. Players were getting awful beatings and nothing was being done about it on the sideline. That has to be the manager's responsibility. Now, I said it ad nauseum in the report that maybe he was trying something and determined to use a meaningless game like this one to test it out. It's the only explanation that I can think of, because if he thought that was as good as it could get then we are right royally screwed.

premierstone

deiseach wrote: »

I'm certainly not one for running down people. A fella strode up beside me after the game and launched into a bitter tirade against everyone involved with Waterford. I wanted to run a mile, I just don't like giving amateurs stick.

But that was terrible on Sunday. Players were getting awful beatings and nothing was being done about it on the sideline. That has to be the manager's responsibility. Now, I said it ad nauseum in the report that maybe he was trying something and determined to use a meaningless game like this one to test it out. It's the only explanation that I can think of, because if he thought that was as good as it could get then we are right royally screwed.

But none of us have any idea what type of training programme Waterford are on and where it is in comparision to Clare, all that matters is the championship and that is along way off, infact considering the age profile and the potential underage talent coming through I would reserve judgement on Ryan untill the year after next, I apprecaite that is easy for me to say when Im not from Waterford but I just think a bit of perspective is needed, last years Munster Fianl was a low point not seen since probably the defeat to Kerry and I bet Davy had them hoping of the ground this time of the year, maybe Ryan has a different approach.

deiseach

premierstone wrote: »

But none of us have any idea what type of training programme Waterford are on and where it is in comparision to Clare, all that matters is the championship and that is along way off, infact considering the age profile and the potential underage talent coming through I would reserve judgement on Ryan untill the year after next, I apprecaite that is easy for me to say when Im not from Waterford but I just think a bit of perspective is needed, last years Munster Fianl was a low point not seen since probably the defeat to Kerry and I bet Davy had them hoping of the ground this time of the year, maybe Ryan has a different approach.

That's a doctrine for never commenting on matches other than Championship matches because we have no way of knowing. And where's the fun in that?

premierstone

deiseach wrote: »

That's a doctrine for never commenting on matches other than Championship matches because we have no way of knowing. And where's the fun in that?

Ah no I never said that now of course people can disect matches and raise concerns over certain facets but In my own personal view some of the reaction here and previous comments have been OTT. Nothing was ever won or lost in February.

hardybuck

premierstone wrote: »

Ah no I never said that now of course people can disect matches and raise concerns over certain facets but In my own personal view some of the reaction here and previous comments have been OTT. Nothing was ever won or lost in February.

While nothing may be won or lost in February, the league allows no room for error this year. I would fear that if we lose our opening game to Cork in two weeks, we could be looking at relegation to Div.2. Not what we need at all.

Mountainlad

Pat Flanagan's reputation as a trainer is built on them peaking at the right time of the year. You can see why that would sound attractive to a Waterford fan as under McCarthy we often peaked too early, and under Fitzgerald...well we just never peaked at all :pac:

Mountainlad

hardybuck wrote: »

While nothing may be won or lost in February, the league allows no room for error this year. I would fear that if we lose our opening game to Cork in two weeks, we could be looking at relegation to Div.2. Not what we need at all.

Agreed but then Sunday's match wasn't a league match, which could be a totally different story. There was some difference between the performance against Galway in the league final in 2004 and Clare a week later.

The effort was the disappointing thing for me. You could put that down to the senior players being played but I actually thought that they were the ones that did best really, although not all of them. Maybe he did just see it as a challenge game and a final chance for some, hopefully in my view. I would have thought given the stick he got that he was going to really try and impress in this competition as it was the most widely anticipated of the pre season matches, and I thought from the relevant strength of the team lining out that was also the motive, and I think from what I've heard since that was also the aim.

However, I'm sure they'll get it together but as has just been said beating Cork would ease a lot of pressure as it would mean winning one of the two home games would probably be enough for survival so it really is in our interest to be readt for that game.

hardybuck

Mountainlad wrote: »

Agreed but then Sunday's match wasn't a league match, which could be a totally different story. There was some difference between the performance against Galway in the league final in 2004 and Clare a week later.

The effort was the disappointing thing for me. You could put that down to the senior players being played but I actually thought that they were the ones that did best really, although not all of them. Maybe he did just see it as a challenge game and a final chance for some, hopefully in my view. I would have thought given the stick he got that he was going to really try and impress in this competition as it was the most widely anticipated of the pre season matches, and I thought from the relevant strength of the team lining out that was also the motive, and I think from what I've heard since that was also the aim.

However, I'm sure they'll get it together but as has just been said beating Cork would ease a lot of pressure as it would mean winning one of the two home games would probably be enough for survival so it really is in our interest to be readt for that game.

The other question is would we be 4-5 points better than Cork on a good day anyway? John Mullane not being available pretty much results in that sort of score being removed from us.

I think if it was seen as just a challenge match my management, we would have seen far less senior lads starting, and far less of them staying on the field for the duration of the game.

Time will tell I suppose.

deiseach

hardybuck wrote: »

While nothing may be won or lost in February, the league allows no room for error this year. I would fear that if we lose our opening game to Cork in two weeks, we could be looking at relegation to Div.2. Not what we need at all.

Exactly. God be with the days when you could rely on Dublin to finish below us!

Cake Man

I think we'll definitely need something from the Cork game, if not we could be in trouble as it will be KK (home), Tipp and Galway (both away) after that. Unfortunately, I just can't see us getting anything from those 3 games, maybe Galway the best chance of pulling off something. Could be going into the last game against Dublin without a point on the board.

lovelypoint

Cake Man wrote: »

I think we'll definitely need something from the Cork game, if not we could be in trouble as it will be KK (home), Tipp and Galway (both away) after that. Unfortunately, I just can't see us getting anything from those 3 games, maybe Galway the best chance of pulling off something. Could be going into the last game against Dublin without a point on the board.

Hard to tell really how the league will pan out until the first game or two. Should be a novel scenario, as no one has ever taken the league completely seriously, with the exception of probably Kilkenny and Dublin (in recent times). Should make for more competitive viewing, but I wonder if it will have a knock-on effect in the championship with counties not having a chance pre-championship to discern and explore their best team..

Giveitfong

People are getting a bit hysterical on this thread about Waterford’s national hurling league prospects. Waterford have been among the top four hurling counties in Ireland over the last ten years. They haven’t struggled in the league for a long time. They won it in 2007. The following year they finished joint second and lost a playoff against Cork by a point. The next two years they were comfortably mid-table, and last year they were just pipped for second place.

Yet we have people on here presenting us as no-hopers. The panel we have at the moment is potentially the strongest we have ever had. We are looking at Adrian Power and Stephen O’Keeffe on goals, Ringo Kearney, Liam Lawlor, Noel Connors, Shane Fives in the full back line, Tony Browne, Declan Prendergast, Darragh Fives, Wayne Hutchinson, Stephen Daniels, Philip Mahoney and David O’Sullivan at half back, Kevin Moran, Shane O’Sullivan, Stephen Molumphy and Richie Foley at midfield, Maurice Shanahan, Brick Walsh, Pauric Mahony and Seamus Prendergast at half forward and John Mullane, Shane Walsh, Brian O’Sullivan and Brian O’Halloran at full forward.

That’s 25 players any of whom I would be quite happy to see putting on a Waterford senior jersey against any competition. There is also some promising up-and-coming talent which could be pressing for inclusion in the first team squad, such as Martin O’Neill, Paudie Prendergast and Gavin O’Brien.

Now I know that not all of these will be available at least for the opening league matches, and it seems clear that the selectors seem to favour other players who are not nearly as good as those listed. I would not normally be too worried about performances at this time of the year, and I am sure we will see a very different Waterford playing against Cork in the league next week.

However, I am concerned by what I have seen of the management team so far. There are players on the panel and getting game time who have shown time and again that they are not good enough for championship hurling. There are newcomers who have been played out of position. And there are newcomers who have got little or no game time at all. We are particularly short of cover at corner back, yet two players who could possibly have provided that cover, the O’Gormans, have been given no chance to show what they can do.

Last Sunday, with Waterford being cleaned out in midfield, what was there to lose by bringing on Maurice O’Gorman at corner back, moving Shane Fives to full back and Declan Prendergast to the half line with either Kevin Moran or Shane O’Sullivan going to midfield (where both of them normally play their intercounty hurling)? Moving Eoin McGrath to midfield and leaving Martin O’Neill and Shane Walsh inside where they faced three markers, with Pat Donnellan sitting in the hole in front of them, defied all comprehension. Why was Brian O’Halloran left on the sideline and Eoin McGrath left on the field? And if you were looking to the future, would you bring on Paudie Nevin or Gavin O’Brien in midfield when Dean Twomey was replaced?

I had hoped that the new selectors would bring a more enlightened approach to game planning and team selection than was the case with their predecessors. So far I have seen no sign of any clear strategy in these areas but plenty of signs of bad squad management and poor tactics. And what particularly worries me are the signs that players are getting game time because of the clubs they are from rather than what they are capable of contributing to the cause of Waterford hurling.

comeraghs

Give it Fong for Waterford manager!

willietherock

How many colleges involved in Waterford Colleges Harty side?

HelloYoungBoy

willietherock wrote: »

How many colleges involved in Waterford Colleges Harty side?

Just 2, Dungarvan CBS and St. Agustines College. Majority of players are from Dungarvan CBS

deisebhoy17

Strange calling up so many players from his own club and then not giving any of them an opportunity to play in the crystal tournament. .

A sign of a manager bereft of ideas imo. Dosent really know what players he should be looking at so call up a loada lads from his own club that he knows best. only to realise that they werent really up to that level when the whole county could have told him that before hand. I dunno where were going this year tbh

Mountainlad

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

A sign of a manager bereft of ideas imo. Dosent really know what players he should be looking at so call up a loada lads from his own club that he knows best. only to realise that they werent really up to that level when the whole county could have told him that before hand. I dunno where were going this year tbh

So, you're the spokesman for the whole county now?

mickmcl09

Like Premierstone says, in some quarters punters are being a bit OTT and early to be having a go at the Waterford Management. I follow the scene down here as I live just outside the City.
The whole parochial thing brings me back years in Waterfords case where Mt. Sion and B Gunner represented the county almost single handedly, I could understand fellas giving out about it then, but now? A panel of 50 odd players from all parts of the county, there was always going to be guys within that 50 that are never going to make it and accusations of parochialism is a cope out.
Selection of home club players in this case looks nothing short of simple nievity on the Managers part, especially when he hasn't tried out alot of these guys - what was he thinking, you'd have to ask, as many have alluded to.

What's most apparent and worrying from the Waterford games so far this year?
- not using 4/5 subs in games
- using older players that have had their day, when there's some very promising youngsters in the county who could be drafted in now with a view to them making it into the x chip 15' next year or the year after, sooner if you were lucky. Alot of the '15' in the KKs and Kerrys if this world tend to spend a year or 2 on the panel before making it. Most counties are no different.
- fitness aside, what looked like players just going through the motions last Sunday, not busting a gut. Between the lines it indicates that the players think they know as much if not more than the Mgt. (call it a lack of respect if you want) and they have a good idea of the final panel themselves. This is not a good reflection on the Mgt. Clare players might be on a different regime but the Mgt made alot more use of the outing.
- horses for courses, managers for club Vs intercounty teams. In fairness the manager has proven himself at club level and afterall, the general consensus in Waterford was that somebody from inside the county was required this time round. There's still the bigger more important part of the year for the mgr and the team to prove themselves, but punters are very right to be concerned with the managers train of thought. IMO, the manager is on a hiding to nothing unless Waterford 1. Beat Clare in the championship, and alot of water will have gone under the bridge before any of us can start making predictions on that. And 2. A quarter final if not semi final appearance later in the year.

Late last year, I tangled with MountainLad and a few more where Waterford were going in comparison to Clare and I fell in for a bit of criticism, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter, but as was rightly pointed out by some of ye, the amount of upcoming talent thats there and as I see it, not being nurtured for want of a better word, lacks foresight on the Mgr's part.

Verdict: I'd be worried that the Manager is not working out, but you have to give him a chance. It might not be how you or I would do it, but he got the job on merit.

Mountainlad

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Like Premierstone says, in some quarters punters are being a bit OTT and early to be having a go at the Waterford Management. I follow the scene down here as I live just outside the City.
The whole parochial thing brings me back years in Waterfords case where Mt. Sion and B Gunner represented the county almost single handedly, I could understand fellas giving out about it then, but now? A panel of 50 odd players from all parts of the county, there was always going to be guys within that 50 that are never going to make it and accusations of parochialism is a cope out.
Selection of home club players in this case looks nothing short of simple nievity on the Managers part, especially when he hasn't tried out alot of these guys - what was he thinking, you'd have to ask, as many have alluded to.

What's most apparent and worrying from the Waterford games so far this year?
- not using 4/5 subs in games
- using older players that have had their day, when there's some very promising youngsters in the county who could be drafted in now with a view to them making it into the x chip 15' next year or the year after, sooner if you were lucky. Alot of the '15' in the KKs and Kerrys if this world tend to spend a year or 2 on the panel before making it. Most counties are no different.
- fitness aside, what looked like players just going through the motions last Sunday, not busting a gut. Between the lines it indicates that the players think they know as much if not more than the Mgt. (call it a lack of respect if you want) and they have a good idea of the final panel themselves. This is not a good reflection on the Mgt. Clare players might be on a different regime but the Mgt made alot more use of the outing.
- horses for courses, managers for club Vs intercounty teams. In fairness the manager has proven himself at club level and afterall, the general consensus in Waterford was that somebody from inside the county was required this time round. There's still the bigger more important part of the year for the mgr and the team to prove themselves, but punters are very right to be concerned with the managers train of thought. IMO, the manager is on a hiding to nothing unless Waterford 1. Beat Clare in the championship, and alot of water will have gone under the bridge before any of us can start making predictions on that. And 2. A quarter final if not semi final appearance later in the year.

Late last year, I tangled with MountainLad and a few more where Waterford were going in comparison to Clare and I fell in for a bit of criticism, rightly or wrongly, it doesn't matter, but as was rightly pointed out by some of ye, the amount of upcoming talent thats there and as I see it, not being nurtured for want of a better word, lacks foresight on the Mgr's part.

Verdict: I'd be worried that the Manager is not working out, but you have to give him a chance. It might not be how you or I would do it, but he got the job on merit.

To be fair, that is probably the most sensible thing written post match.

mickmcl09

Mountainlad wrote: »

To be fair, that is probably the most sensible thing written post match.

Thanks Mountainlad.
The question is though, will the Mgt. have the sliotars to drop the likes of Eoin McGrath and maybe 2 to 3 more who through no fault of their own are no longer going to change games any more significantly than the pick of your best 10 minors over the last 3 years who will only improve more significantly and to an overall higher level if brought in now. There was some great performances by some of these young fellas in some of the senior club games last year.
Would Connors be as highly rated as he is now had he not been brought into the set up as early as he was, definitely not. Waterford have a handful more of these type of guys in the county. That would put ye in a much more competitive position, not only next year and onwards, but this year as well.
It's like the manager is afraid to stand up and be counted.

premierstone

You raise an interesting issue there mick, the problem is Ryan is caught between a rock and a hard place, as can be seen from the reaction in this thread to Sundays performance people, not all but some, are merely looking for a reason to jump on him, so he kind of needs to get results straight away, when the reality is Waterford should be imo prepared to have a two or three year period of transition where new polayers can be blooded slowly, introduced to senior inter county level, which lets face it bears no resemblence to county minor and we have no idea how those minors will fair.

Some of the comments directed towards Ryan would have one believe that the guy won a raffle to get the job or something, he is there on merit and was the best man for the job, so everyone needs to get behind him and give him the support and encouragement he needs, at the end of the day he's not Davy, be thankfull for small mercies - no pun intended with the use of small

drumhills

I hear that the two O'Gormans are gone off the panel already.

deisebhoy17

Mountainlad wrote: »

So, you're the spokesman for the whole county now?

Most people would agree with me anyway, yea. #

I know theres a few up your direction alright who refuse to accept any criticism of anyone from that particular club. This is a public message board just accept that people are going to say it as they see it even if you take personal offence, which you seem to do anytime someone says something about anyone from FMW/Nire, even if you do insist your not from there! :rolleyes:

deisebhoy17

premierstone wrote: »

Some of the comments directed towards Ryan would have one believe that the guy won a raffle to get the job or something, he is there on merit and was the best man for the job,

Hes there because the co. board got him on the cheap. spade a spade.

Mountainlad

Giveitfong wrote: »

It’s a pity to see contributors on this and other sites using the Eoin Kelly and O’Gorman brothers cases to purse their own personal vendettas against Michael Ryan. You can be sure that the decision regarding Kelly was taken with the best interests of the team in mind and in consultation with his fellow mentors who are all top-class hurling or fitness men. Kelly was given fitness targets to meet which he failed to do and he then turned down the offer to train with the squad to help him raise his fitness levels. What else could the management do?



As regards the O’Gorman twins, I have felt for several years now that if the Fourmilewater/Nire players were to give priority to hurling they would be a very serious force within the county. There were signs of this happening in 2011 on both fronts, and the decision of the O’Gormans to switch focus will surely mean that Ballygunner and De La Salle won’t have the county championship entirely to themselves this year.


While not outstanding hurlers at the moment, the O’Gormans have other attributes which have surely attracted them to the county management. They are as tough as nails, very competitive and very dedicated. If the county management can bring on their already good hurling skills sufficiently, they would be just the kind of players you need to stand up to the power and bullying which are key components of Kilkenny’s hurling mix. It is an insult to both Michael Ryan and the O’Gormans themselves to suggest that they are only on the panel because they are from the same club as Ryan.

Deise_Davy wrote: »

This is complete horses**t. Do you think Kilkenny or Tipp would pluck two players out of obscurity and bring them on to the panel. There is no way that the O'Gorman's are good enough for inter county hurling. In fact, I doubt they would make either the Ballygunner or De La Salle starting fifteens. You say you think, they can improve enough in order to be able to match Kilkenny players. You are away with the fairies if you think this will happen. As footballers, the O'Gormans are as good as any in the province, but are very limited hurlers and did not stand out I the recent trial games. This is pure opportunism by Ryan, keeping the lads at home happy.

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Most people would agree with me anyway, yea. #

I know theres a few up your direction alright who refuse to accept any criticism of anyone from that particular club. This is a public message board just accept that people are going to say it as they see it even if you take personal offence, which you seem to do anytime someone says something about anyone from FMW/Nire, even if you do insist your not from there! :rolleyes:

Ah yeah sure the whole county does, sure that's why we nominated you spokesperson!

If you look at the two posts I've quoted there I'd be grateful, because maybe then you could stop and think about what you're saying. The first was Giveitfong's take on the situation which arose after the news broke of Kelly being dropped and the O'Gorman's being brought on. I edited out most fo the Kelly stuff because it's irrelevant in what I'm trying to say. I think you were very much so included in the first line of what was said. For your information, that post got 11 thanks, 10 if you don't count mine.

The post underneath was a response from Deise Davy, where said things similar to what you're saying. That got 1 thank.

Are you saying that most of the people on this forum are fron FMW/The Nire?

Fair enough, your opinion, but then you keep on wrongly suggesting I am. As I've said a million times I'm from a neighbouring parish, but know several people from that area. I go to the games with them sometimes. They tell me things about their players and I listen.

The fact is you keep trying to pin a non-existent bias for Fourmilewater to me in order to disguise your bias against Michael Ryan. I already did criticise the management for Sunday, something you conveniently ignored. However, I'm not about to suggest 'I dont know where we are going this year' or that 'the management doesnt have a clue' on the basis of one meaningless game. I wonder would you have taken Sunday as seriously if Davy Fitzgerald was in charge...or anybody else for that matter.

By the way, I know you've probably been working away hard at it, but i feel it's about time you produced the names of those 50 players...no wait sorry it was 250, that are better than the O'Gormans! :rolleyes:

skaface

:cool: Hi guys, first time to comment on here, so go easy on me!!
Some interesting comments on the management goin on here..
Imo i think it,s great we have a Waterford MAN in charge of a
Waterford TEAM this year, no disrespect to the previous men in
charge. I would hope that we can use the Lge to get a settled
side for the c/ship, and hopefully get back to Croker, and with a
bit of luck you never know, it could be our year;)

I think the race for Liam Mc Carthy is wide open this year...
UP THE DEISE

Mountainlad

skaface wrote: »

:cool: Hi guys, first time to comment on here, so go easy on me!!
Some interesting comments on the management goin on here..
Imo i think it,s great we have a Waterford MAN in charge of a
Waterford TEAM this year, no disrespect to the previous men in
charge. I would hope that we can use the Lge to get a settled
side for the c/ship, and hopefully get back to Croker, and with a
bit of luck you never know, it could be our year;)

I think the race for Liam Mc Carthy is wide open this year...
UP THE DEISE

Can't go wrong with a bit of faith! Welcome to Boards!

mickmcl09

premierstone wrote: »

You raise an interesting issue there mick, the problem is Ryan is caught between a rock and a hard place, as can be seen from the reaction in this thread to Sundays performance people, not all but some, are merely looking for a reason to jump on him, so he kind of needs to get results straight away, when the reality is Waterford should be imo prepared to have a two or three year period of transition where new polayers can be blooded slowly, introduced to senior inter county level, which lets face it bears no resemblence to county minor and we have no idea how those minors will fair.

Some of the comments directed towards Ryan would have one believe that the guy won a raffle to get the job or something, he is there on merit and was the best man for the job, so everyone needs to get behind him and give him the support and encouragement he needs, at the end of the day he's not Davy,

Spot on

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Hes there because the co. board got him on the cheap. spade a spade.

Really! So who on the list of candidates didn't get the gig because they priced themselves out of the job? You don't do your credibility any favours unless you can stand over statements like that.

Just to go outside the box on this premature Mgt appraisal.
Have any of the current Mgt played intercounty?
It's just, in recent years managers in Galway, KK, Cork, Tipp, Offaly, Clare, Dublin even Wexford are not only intercounty players but former All Stars and I'm wondering has O'Grady who managed Limerick last year, has he got one as well?
So, (because I don't know anything of Ryan's hurling career)is it the County Board who lacked foresight with the appointment? (I apologise in advance as I feel that in a sense this is probably something that should be discussed at the end rather than the start of the managers tenure).

The point I'm making is the discussion on the mgr has spiralled out of control and it will end with a discussion not dissimilar to what I have alluded to above.

Not really constructive is it Deisebhoy.

What would you do if you were the manager? By that I mean on what basis would you be forming the panel for championship and probable qualifiers. Now let's be fair Ryan will deserve alot of back slapping if he brought a Munster championship back to the Deise in 2012.

As we all know from this thread, a slap in the back is only a foot away from a kick in the a¥$€.

suitcasepink

Surprised theres such little talk of Brian O Sullivan leaving the panel.
Defo gonna miss seeing him for the season...

Twixaroo

deise_girl wrote: »

Surprised theres such little talk of Brian O Sullivan leaving the panel.
Defo gonna miss seeing him for the season...

Think he's doing a J1 in the summer so that's why he's dropped himself off it. Had a good season last year and thought he would push on this but now the door opens for the other youngsters!

What's the story with Philip Mahony? He's not with a college as far as I know but yet hasn't been involved at all so far has he? Is he injured?

premierstone

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Just to go outside the box on this premature Mgt appraisal.
Have any of the current Mgt played intercounty?
It's just, in recent years managers in Galway, KK, Cork, Tipp, Offaly, Clare, Dublin even Wexford are not only intercounty players but former All Stars and I'm wondering has O'Grady who managed Limerick last year, has he got one as well

Not sure its that big of an issue tbh, I'll just take Tipp as an example Declan Ryan won AI medals in three different decades, and Tommy Dunne won an AI and HOTY in 2001, yet they are under serious pressure in Tipp and seem to be struggling somewhat, compare to their predecessor Liam Sheedy who was really only a squad player for a few seasons, I think 1997 was really the only year he held a regualr place on the first 15 and that was because of a few injuries.

Even look at other sports, Arsene Wenger, Jose Mourinho neither played soccer to any significant level but both have reached the very top as managers, its a completely different skill set and personally I dont think its an issue.

solarith

The O'Gormans are back with the Footballers.

skaface

We can talk all day about what this manager does and what that manager
and coach does in training, but at the end of the day it,s up to the PLAYERS
.Once they cross that WHITE LINE, it,s up to them to perform. If them lads
don,t have the DESIRE & HUNGER to bring Liam mc Carthy back over the River
Suir for the first time since 59 - There must be something wrong.. Hopefully
with a manager from within our own county, he will be able to instill that into
our players.. the talent is there.

UP THE DEISE