Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

lovelypoint

Mountainlad wrote: »

By the way, just as an irrelevant but interesting side note, all three teams in Division 1A lost by 8 points, and across the two divisions the average winning margin was 9 points with Antrim's 6 point win over Wexford being the closest run affair.

Nail on head, and hopefully those getting carried away over-analysing challenge, Waterford Crystal & early league games, will see the fallacy in such. Like the league in previous years, these sort of games are best for gauging current progress and early season fitness, but it would seem many have decreed our lot for the season already, despite the fact that last weekends games have shown there is a noticeable difference in where teams are at the moment.

League could be cut-throat, but even if languishing at the foot of the table, there's still a do or die playoff to decide relegation, and even if relegated, if it allowed us to develop our players with potential, then it may not be the worst.

Haven't seen the KK-Tipp game last weekend, and with KK looming the Sunday after next, wonder what the verdict is on how Kilkenny are motoring. Consensus after the weekend, seems to be that they were awesome against Tipp, but then again people were saying the same about Cork after last weekend too, so its hard to know what to believe..

hardybuck

lovelypoint wrote: »

Nail on head, and hopefully those getting carried away over-analysing challenge, Waterford Crystal & early league games, will see the fallacy in such. Like the league in previous years, these sort of games are best for gauging current progress and early season fitness, but it would seem many have decreed our lot for the season already, despite the fact that last weekends games have shown there is a noticeable difference in where teams are at the moment.

League could be cut-throat, but even if languishing at the foot of the table, there's still a do or die playoff to decide relegation, and even if relegated, if it allowed us to develop our players with potential, then it may not be the worst.

Haven't seen the KK-Tipp game last weekend, and with KK looming the Sunday after next, wonder what the verdict is on how Kilkenny are motoring. Consensus after the weekend, seems to be that they were awesome against Tipp, but then again people were saying the same about Cork after last weekend too, so its hard to know what to believe..

From my point of view, I'm quite concerned by the fact that we were heavily beaten by two poor teams.

I don't think I need to wait until we get similar beatings in the next three games from Kilkenny, Tipp and Galway before I voice that concern.

lovelypoint

hardybuck wrote: »

From my point of view, I'm quite concerned by the fact that we were heavily beaten by two poor teams.

I don't think I need to wait until we get similar beatings in the next three games from Kilkenny, Tipp and Galway before I voice that concern.

Ha ha, talk is good, not saying it's not, lol.

For what it's worth, am a little concerned myself, but the attitudes of some who have just about written off our whole season already, is a little worrying. As someone else noted, we are still in the running for the League, Munster, and All Ireland.

hardybuck

lovelypoint wrote: »

Ha ha, talk is good, not saying it's not, lol.

For what it's worth, am a little concerned myself, but the attitudes of some who have just about written off our whole season already, is a little worrying. As someone else noted, we are still in the running for the League, Munster, and All Ireland.

No bother - reading that again I see my comment might appear a bit stern!

I'd say you could write off the league and All Ireland anyway, outside chance at a Munster. Just don't have the quality to achieve more at present.

lovelypoint

hardybuck wrote: »

No bother - reading that again I see my comment might appear a bit stern!

I'd say you could write off the league and All Ireland anyway, outside chance at a Munster. Just don't have the quality to achieve more at present.

Yes, All Ireland glory would be a bit optimistic, especially with so many of our brightest prospects nowhere near the panel at the moment. Given the step-up from minor to senior from so many of Tipps young hopefuls these last few years, gives me some hope, with the players we have coming down the track. For now though, I don't see enough there to make us more than dangerous opponents for those on their way to the All Ireland, especially with the Brian O'Sullivan's, Brian O'Halloran's, Tommy Ryan's, at al, on the periphery, if even on the panel, this year.

Re: munster, if we can handle a resurgent Clare side, I shall be impressed, and feel we were lucky to edge them last year, and that their side is only getting stronger.

Still decent chances in the league, well to avoid relegation really or possibly finish mid table, but anything more is beyond us I feel, where we are currently with injuries & where we are fitness and training-wise. What I do want to see less of from management though, is this soundbite of injuries, as shoddy defending and poor attacking are what cost us a result in Cork, in my opinion.

lovelypoint

Indo reporting Foley is out for the league, targetting a return in June against Clare (http://www.independent.ie/sport/hurling/foley-to-miss-rest-of-league-3034567.html).

I wonder what the injury tally is on the rest of our panel. Obviously some have just picked up knocks, while others have either had more serious knocks, or surgeries. Am I right in thinking Wayne Huthinson and Liam Lawlor are our current longer term injuries, with the rest suffering knocks, possibly with Maurice Shanahan being the worst injured of those with knocks ?

glick6

Wayne Hutchinson and Richie Foley had hip surgeries at more or less the same time in late January. Pretty much three months before return to full team training = late April all going well and then it's down to gaining match sharpness to be fit for selection come June. Liam Lawlor, as far as I've been told is training away but just not match fit. If he gets fit, he'l be available for selection, injury isn't the issue. The word is that Maurice definitely does not have a fracture so I assume a soft tissue injury means only a couple of weeks at most? Ringo should be back for Kilkenny, was told he trained a bit during the week. Not sure about Noely Connors. He didnt train at all during the week so I suppose he probably wont be available for KK.

Also I think that Independent article is hilarious. It says "but the news that he will not feature during the League will come as a blow to manager Michael Ryan, who is down a number of players through injury".......... Hardly come as a blow seeing as Ryan has known since early January that he wouldn't be available until the end of May at the earliest! Bad oul journalism trying to find a bit of hype where there is none.

IanVW

Any challenges this weekend?

glick6

none pencilled in... think they have fitness testing saturday.

lovelypoint

glick6 wrote: »

Wayne Hutchinson and Richie Foley had hip surgeries at more or less the same time in late January. Pretty much three months before return to full team training = late April all going well and then it's down to gaining match sharpness to be fit for selection come June. Liam Lawlor, as far as I've been told is training away but just not match fit. If he gets fit, he'l be available for selection, injury isn't the issue. The word is that Maurice definitely does not have a fracture so I assume a soft tissue injury means only a couple of weeks at most? Ringo should be back for Kilkenny, was told he trained a bit during the week. Not sure about Noely Connors. He didnt train at all during the week so I suppose he probably wont be available for KK.

Also I think that Independent article is hilarious. It says "but the news that he will not feature during the League will come as a blow to manager Michael Ryan, who is down a number of players through injury".......... Hardly come as a blow seeing as Ryan has known since early January that he wouldn't be available until the end of May at the earliest! Bad oul journalism trying to find a bit of hype where there is none.

Yes, silly stuff from the Indo alright, trying to pad out the article I would imagine on probably a slow sports news day.

Good to hear that Wayne and Ritchie will be back come championship, although could be difficult for Hutchinson to force his way back in, come June, I suspect. Good to hear Lawlor is back training, and at least with him and Ringo back, we have options again in the back line again. Hopefully nothing too serious with Noel or Shane Walsh, and imagine Maurice will be thankful the sooner he gets back also.

The blue blaa

Why are so many pinning their hopes on the return of hutchison,he's yet to prove himself as a county hurler really I can't understand it and as for Maurice he's a fella carries a lot of hype but doesn't deliver when it matters most. Richie Foley is a good player I look forward to seeing him back alright.

lovelypoint

The blue blaa wrote: »

Why are so many pinning their hopes on the return of hutchison,he's yet to prove himself as a county hurler really I can't understand it and as for Maurice he's a fella carries a lot of hype but doesn't deliver when it matters most. Richie Foley is a good player I look forward to seeing him back alright.

For what its worth, I do not think anyone is pinning our season on the aforementioned players, or at least that is not the impression I have gotten.

Hutchinson has shown promise at full back and is an option there, but moreover in a changing half back line, his club appearances have marked him out as a half back with quite a bit of promise potentially. Whether Michael Ryan and co. play him there is another matter though.

Agree about the hype about Maurice, he has to prove himself at intercounty level, but once again is an option in a half forward line not exactly overflowing with options.

In any case, what is wrong with keeping an eye on the injury situation..

abbeysideFB4L

Colaiste na nDeise to play in a quarter final in the Croke Cup, yet the winners of Leinster and Connacht straight through to semis! with CnD playin the losers of Leinsters, it seems like they have the toughest draw

deisebhoy17

abbeysideFB4L wrote: »

Colaiste na nDeise to play in a quarter final in the Croke Cup, yet the winners of Leinster and Connacht straight through to semis! with CnD playin the losers of Leinsters, it seems like they have the toughest draw

All the others are schools in their own right surprised Cna D allowed compete.

abbeysideFB4L

yes but put together both schools have appox 600 boys between them, compared with other schools, like de la salle for example this is still relatively small

deisebhoy17

abbeysideFB4L wrote: »

yes but put together both schools have appox 600 boys between them, compared with other schools, like de la salle for example this is still relatively small

Not the point CnaD isnt a school dont see how they can compete in Harty anyway. If there was a combination of Cork schools or Tipp schools that werent deemed big enough theyd probably run away with it

alllcounty

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Not the point CnaD isnt a school dont see how they can compete in Harty anyway. If there was a combination of Cork schools or Tipp schools that werent deemed big enough theyd probably run away with it

Dublin colleges won it in 2006. You sound like a begrudger. They have done the county proud so far, only the 4th time the Harty cup was won by a waterford team. Best of luck to them in the next round

Mountainlad

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Not the point CnaD isnt a school dont see how they can compete in Harty anyway. If there was a combination of Cork schools or Tipp schools that werent deemed big enough theyd probably run away with it

What schools would these be that are geographically close and both have relatively low numbers?

Talking through your hat.

PTH2009

i think Waterford GAA should enter a city team in future harty cups.

Players from Mount Sion CBS, Abbey Community College, St Pauls and Waterpark.

Then almost all the schools in Waterford would have harty cup experience

premierstone

Mountainlad wrote: »

What schools would these be that are geographically close and both have relatively low numbers?

Talking through your hat.

Templemore and Thurles are very close, and an amalgamation of those would crush the Harty.

I dont see the problem with allowing Waterford Colleges into the Harty and Croke cups as it is good for the game, but a little suprised alright, seems to be alot of inconsistency and contradiction when it comes to amalgamations in the GAA.

alllcounty

PTH2009 wrote: »

i think Waterford GAA should enter a city team in future harty cups.

Players from Mount Sion CBS, Abbey Community College, St Pauls and Waterpark.

Then almost all the schools in Waterford would have harty cup experience

Is Abbey CC allowed play in munster or is it just outside the boundaries and do Waterpark even field gaa teams?

mickmcl09

I can see the argument for giving youngfellas from smaller schools the opportunity to play Harty hurling.
It's one of the most prestigious hurling competitions in the GAA and many of the games are of a higher standard than inter county minor games.
However, where do you draw the line with amalgamations.
Having been to Flannans in Ennis. They won 3 in a row from 88-91. I was on both panels that lost Harty finals in '92 and '93. Outsiders had a hugh issue with Flannans dominance at the time, but they forget that it's different lads on the team each year.hence the rule that you had to be in a school for at least 1 academic year before you're eligible to play Harty for your school. Flannans no longer has a boarding school as well which always provided the school with county minors from surrounding counties.
While it was great to see Dublin colleges success albeit at Flannans expense, it lacked a sense of real achievement for any school in particular in Dublin. Any county player will tell you there's nothing like winning with your club. Same goes for school competitions. There's nothing like winning with your school mates as distinct from achieving it with another school, those victories strike me as a little hollow.
Amalgamations take away from the prestigiousness of competitions. A picture of a winning almgamated school winning team means very little as distinct from looking at one where all those in the picture are from the school. Seems petty, I know but you should walk down the hall in Flannans with all those pictures. The nostalgia, pride and sense of achievement for any of those guys up on the wall is unreal. It just wouldn't have the same value if half the lads up on the pictures were from another school, I'm sorry!
I'm sure former students of North Mon, Limerick CBS, Fermoy, Thurles CBS and the likes would feel the same. Schools that are steeped in GAA history.

hardybuck

mickmcl09 wrote: »

I can see the argument for giving youngfellas from smaller schools the opportunity to play Harty hurling.
It's one of the most prestigious hurling competitions in the GAA and many of the games are of a higher standard than inter county minor games.
However, where do you draw the line with amalgamations.
Having been to Flannans in Ennis. They won 3 in a row from 88-91. I was on both panels that lost Harty finals in '92 and '93. Outsiders had a hugh issue with Flannans dominance at the time, but they forget that it's different lads on the team each year.hence the rule that you had to be in a school for at least 1 academic year before you're eligible to play Harty for your school. Flannans no longer has a boarding school as well which always provided the school with county minors from surrounding counties.
While it was great to see Dublin colleges success albeit at Flannans expense, it lacked a sense of real achievement for any school in particular in Dublin. Any county player will tell you there's nothing like winning with your club. Same goes for school competitions. There's nothing like winning with your school mates as distinct from achieving it with another school, those victories strike me as a little hollow.
Amalgamations take away from the prestigiousness of competitions. A picture of a winning almgamated school winning team means very little as distinct from looking at one where all those in the picture are from the school. Seems petty, I know but you should walk down the hall in Flannans with all those pictures. The nostalgia, pride and sense of achievement for any of those guys up on the wall is unreal. It just wouldn't have the same value if half the lads up on the pictures were from another school, I'm sorry!
I'm sure former students of North Mon, Limerick CBS, Fermoy, Thurles CBS and the likes would feel the same. Schools that are steeped in GAA history.

Valid point, but the likes of Mount Sion, Waterpark, Abbey CC, St Pauls and even Newtown will never get an opportunity to play on a Harty Cup team at the moment. If 20 lads out of those schools get to step up and play at a decent standard, it would be better than 20 lads never getting the chance to do so.

fricatus

hardybuck wrote: »

Valid point, but the likes of Mount Sion, Waterpark, Abbey CC, St Pauls and even Newtown will never get an opportunity to play on a Harty Cup team at the moment. If 20 lads out of those schools get to step up and play at a decent standard, it would be better than 20 lads never getting the chance to do so.

I understand what you mean, but that's the same dilemma as the "Henry Shefflin from Bagenalstown" faces, because he'll never win an All-Ireland medal with Carlow. That's sport, and lads have to learn that lesson at some point in their lives - it might as well be early on.

I'd much rather see lads from Mount Sion and Waterpark miss out on Harty, and then be spurred on to win the All-Ireland for their county. Otherwise they could end up like Ross O'Carroll-Kelly winning the "S" at 17 and then going on to be "the best player never to play for Ireland".

To take the argument to its logical, if absurd, conclusion, it's like saying that we should pitch in with Kilkenny from now on because Ken McGrath didn't win an AI medal.

hardybuck

fricatus wrote: »

I understand what you mean, but that's the same dilemma as the "Henry Shefflin from Bagenalstown" faces, because he'll never win an All-Ireland medal with Carlow. That's sport, and lads have to learn that lesson at some point in their lives - it might as well be early on.

I'd much rather see lads from Mount Sion and Waterpark miss out on Harty, and then be spurred on to win the All-Ireland for their county. Otherwise they could end up like Ross O'Carroll-Kelly winning the "S" at 17 and then going on to be "the best player never to play for Ireland".

To take the argument to its logical, if absurd, conclusion, it's like saying that we should pitch in with Kilkenny from now on because Ken McGrath didn't win an AI medal.

I think regardless of winning the 'S' or not, Ross still didn't have the dedication to fulfill his undoubted potential. The pints of Special K and the women would have consumed him either way.

My attitude is that the more lads who can get up to compete at a higher standard the better.

abbeysideFB4L

premierstone wrote: »

Templemore and Thurles are very close, and an amalgamation of those would crush the Harty.

I dont see the problem with allowing Waterford Colleges into the Harty and Croke cups as it is good for the game, but a little suprised alright, seems to be alot of inconsistency and contradiction when it comes to amalgamations in the GAA.

There 15km apart, the friary and cbs are 3km apart, plus you'd have to consider the size of the schools! I feel we shouldnt dwell on this and accept the magnificant achievement by Cnd

premierstone

abbeysideFB4L wrote: »

There 15km apart, the friary and cbs are 3km apart, plus you'd have to consider the size of the schools! I feel we shouldnt dwell on this and accept the magnificant achievement by Cnd

15 km of rural countryside, they have lads from the same clubs playing with both schools, I agree though its deflecting from the great win and I say that as a former Nenagh CBS man!

deisedude

mickmcl09 wrote: »

I can see the argument for giving youngfellas from smaller schools the opportunity to play Harty hurling.
It's one of the most prestigious hurling competitions in the GAA and many of the games are of a higher standard than inter county minor games.
However, where do you draw the line with amalgamations.
Having been to Flannans in Ennis. They won 3 in a row from 88-91. I was on both panels that lost Harty finals in '92 and '93. Outsiders had a hugh issue with Flannans dominance at the time, but they forget that it's different lads on the team each year.hence the rule that you had to be in a school for at least 1 academic year before you're eligible to play Harty for your school. Flannans no longer has a boarding school as well which always provided the school with county minors from surrounding counties.
While it was great to see Dublin colleges success albeit at Flannans expense, it lacked a sense of real achievement for any school in particular in Dublin. Any county player will tell you there's nothing like winning with your club. Same goes for school competitions. There's nothing like winning with your school mates as distinct from achieving it with another school, those victories strike me as a little hollow.
Amalgamations take away from the prestigiousness of competitions. A picture of a winning almgamated school winning team means very little as distinct from looking at one where all those in the picture are from the school. Seems petty, I know but you should walk down the hall in Flannans with all those pictures. The nostalgia, pride and sense of achievement for any of those guys up on the wall is unreal. It just wouldn't have the same value if half the lads up on the pictures were from another school, I'm sorry!
I'm sure former students of North Mon, Limerick CBS, Fermoy, Thurles CBS and the likes would feel the same. Schools that are steeped in GAA history.

Some of those schools you mentioned which are steeped in GAA history were poaching young lads left, right and centre to win hartys. Far hollower achievement in my estimation

mickmcl09

I don't think anybody here doesn't accept that it is a magnificent achievement.
Posters are simply making a case for amalgamations not being allowed, full stop.
Amalgamations were introduced originally as a means of GAA clubs who hadn't enough players to field a team to throw their lot in with another club.

Yes, in recent times we've had amalgamated intermediate teams competing at senior level which is singularly the only case for doing likewise with secondary schools in regard to the Harty.

In a practical sense, secondary school is for education first and foremost (not sport), secondly, fellas of 16/17/18 have lots of hurling competitions to keep them busy and an extra one is not going to make a blind bit of difference to their ability to hurl. Worse case scenario they get 3 group games, best case they go all the way. We already have the county vocational schools competition. We don't need another one in the Harty cup. Amalgamating schools is not conducive to doing study as one or both schools have to travel to a common training ground it's all cutting into study time. An amalgated school who does well in Harty, invariably do well in the same season on their own in 'B' or 'C' grades which amounts to too many matches as the best 7/8 players play Harty, Minor Club/County, U 21 and Adult games not to mention dual players.

IMO, amalgamations will dissolve the prestigiousness of Harty Cup.
If parents and their 13/14 year olds feel that strongly about playing Harty in and around the City at least, well send them to De la Salle. It's the same in KK. Some parents will send their fella to Kierans even though they pass several schools to get there. It's the same in Ennis with some students going from the opposite side of town to St. Flannans instead of the CBS.

Flannans used to be called the United Nations in hurling circles such was the distaste for their success. It's worse what's going on nowadays with schools electing to amalgamate.

Fair play to those young fellas for winning a Harty. I hope they really treasure it because there are young fellas starting in Flannans, Fermoy, Thurles and the likes every year that would give their arm to win a Harty!!!!! when they get to leaving cert and that's why they go to those schools, the same as the ruggers go to Blackrock etc.

It still doesn't make amalgamation right.

mickmcl09

deisedude wrote: »

Some of those schools you mentioned which are steeped in GAA history were poaching young lads left, right and centre to win hartys. Far hollower achievement in my estimation

Have you any examples? Or is that just here say?

If you knew the rules of Harty cup, you'd know that is no longer the case. Re: The Gantley's from Galway who wanted to play with Flannans in the late 90's.

You have to be attending a school for more than 1 full academic year to participate on that's schools behalf in Harty Cup.

premierstone

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Have you any examples? Or is that just here say?

If you knew the rules of Harty cup, you'd know that is no longer the case. Re: The Gantley's from Galway who wanted to play with Flannans in the late 90's.

You have to be attending a school for more than 1 full academic year to participate on that's schools behalf in Harty Cup.

Ah come on mick it has been rife for years and the new rules do nothing to change that only remove the possibility of guys going to a school to repeat the leaving cert to play Harty. Thurles this year had 2 players playing with them that were from Clonmel and two lads for KK. North Mon, Flannans and Ard Scioll Ris are and always have been doing this aswell.

abbeysideFB4L

i feel sorry for poor jamie barron!

mickmcl09

It also stops post junior Certs from changing school just for Harty as it means they have to spend an entire 4th year in school where they wouldn't be permitted to play, as was the case with Gantley.

The schools aren't driving the 'recruitment'. These fellas dream of winning Harty Cups from 13/14 and the parents will make the sacrifices to make it happen especially if it also happens to be the auld fellas 'Alma mater' (excuse the spelling).

In Waterfords case there's kids in South KK going to Kierans and they're living much closer to De la Salle in the city and the Abbey in Ferrybank which is highly thought of academically and I personally know 2 such instances.

Could be argued that it was rife in the 80's and maybe 90's but it's no more the a preconception now.

deisebhoy17

abbeysideFB4L wrote: »

There 15km apart, the friary and cbs are 3km apart, plus you'd have to consider the size of the schools! I feel we shouldnt dwell on this and accept the magnificant achievement by Cnd

That makes no odds the name of the team is 'Colaisti na Deise' meaning waterford colleges it just so happens that the only 2 schools represented this year are the Brothers and the Friary. It included Blackwater CS until they went on their own a couple years back and has been represented by students from Ring and Kilmac colleges in the past

Im delighted for the lads aswell by the way

deisebhoy17

Mountainlad wrote: »

What schools would these be that are geographically close and both have relatively low numbers?

Talking through your hat.

I never mentioned anything about schools necessarily having to be geographically close. That is not my point anyway, my view is that it devalues the Harty Cup a bit with combined colleges involved.

Plus whats stopping other schools not quite up to Harty standard from getting together with other school(s) within a reasonable proximity? theyll surely look at CnD and ask why cant they do it aswell. You could have a group of North Cork schools combined Mallow, Mitchelstown, Charleville, Doneraile ect and I can gurantee theyd do a lot of damage. Cork city aswell. the reason Cork teams arent as strong is that there are so many different schools now and the talent is more spread out., Limerick, Tipp ect aswell.

Look Im not begrudging the Waterford lads success for a second its not their fault. Id be of the same view in Leinster with Dublin colleges. Dont be surprised to see a few more combined teams next year from different areas and a few more the year after

deisebhoy17

alllcounty wrote: »

Dublin colleges won it in 2006. You sound like a begrudger. They have done the county proud so far, only the 4th time the Harty cup was won by a waterford team. Best of luck to them in the next round

Not a begrudger at all im delighted for waterford hurling. Just expressing my view from the wider scheme of things

Deise Hurler

Abbey CC are part of Kilkenny VEC and compete in the Leinster Championships, so players from that school could never play in a harty team. Dont know how much hurling goes on in Waterpark and Mount Sion, but would think its very little.
In my oponion an amalgamation of Tramore CBS, St. Declans Kilmacthomas and St. Pauls would do quiet well in the harty cup but it wouldn't be easy to organise due to the distances between each school.

Deise Hurler

mickmcl09 wrote: »

You have to be attending a school for more than 1 full academic year to participate on that's schools behalf in Harty Cup.

Not any more.
Sure didn't Shane McNulty move from Tramore CBS to DLS this year and play harty cup, Eamonn Murphy did likewise last year. Noel and Owen Connors would previously have played harty for DLS straight after moving from Ramsgrange CS.

deisedude

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Have you any examples? Or is that just here say?

If you knew the rules of Harty cup, you'd know that is no longer the case. Re: The Gantley's from Galway who wanted to play with Flannans in the late 90's.

You have to be attending a school for more than 1 full academic year to participate on that's schools behalf in Harty Cup.

Ah go way outta that. The "boarding" schools approached talented lads and gave them free board and other perks. Long after the 90's this carry on was going on. You want an example, Andrew O'Shaughnessy went to St. Colmans in Fermoy and he is from Killmallock which is 40km away. Now the fact boarding is gone in most schools is about the only reason this doesn't continue

doz

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

I never mentioned anything about schools necessarily having to be geographically close. That is not my point anyway, my view is that it devalues the Harty Cup a bit with combined colleges involved.

Plus whats stopping other schools not quite up to Harty standard from getting together with other school(s) within a reasonable proximity? theyll surely look at CnD and ask why cant they do it aswell. You could have a group of North Cork schools combined Mallow, Mitchelstown, Charleville, Doneraile ect and I can gurantee theyd do a lot of damage. Cork city aswell. the reason Cork teams arent as strong is that there are so many different schools now and the talent is more spread out., Limerick, Tipp ect aswell.

Look Im not begrudging the Waterford lads success for a second its not their fault. Id be of the same view in Leinster with Dublin colleges. Dont be surprised to see a few more combined teams next year from different areas and a few more the year after

I think it is worth noting, and I am not sure that all people who have contributed to this debate understand, that Colaiste na nDeise is made up of two small schools from the same town (Dungarvan), which combined have a total of c. 600 male students. This is in no way comparable to what some posters are suggesting about schools/colleges from Tipp, Cork etc potentially amalgamating. In fact, at this point I think that the team should be renamed Colaisti Dun Garbhan, as this is in truth what the team now is. These players are representing a town in the same way that players from the larger schools in Nenagh, Templemoore etc are. I think there is a certain element of begrudgery going on which is completely unwarranted simply because an amalgamation of two very small schools have taken on and beaten some of the 'mighty' schools who traditionally did well in the competition. The fact of the matter is that this is a fantastic effort from a wonderfully talented group of players which deserves plaudits from all corners of the county and beyond.

Mountainlad

mickmcl09 wrote: »

Have you any examples? Or is that just here say?

If you knew the rules of Harty cup, you'd know that is no longer the case. Re: The Gantley's from Galway who wanted to play with Flannans in the late 90's.

You have to be attending a school for more than 1 full academic year to participate on that's schools behalf in Harty Cup.

I know of it happening. I also know of players who have been playing Harty Cup immediately upon transferring schools. How is the rule exactly defined? Is it just for lads that have already played Harty?

I'd be very suprised if it's not happening in Flannan's as well.

HelloYoungBoy

No one was complaining about amalgamated teams two years ago when colaiste nd nDeise lost to Kerry colleges.... Haters gunna hate

Mountainlad

HelloYoungBoy wrote: »

No one was complaining about amalgamated teams two years ago when colaiste nd nDeise lost to Kerry colleges.... Haters gunna hate

Yeah I mean it's not like the best players have been hand picked from Waterford schools and put on that team, only the pick of those that go to Dungarvan and most of the players on the team play for clubs in the Minor B championship and some even C (players from Naomh Brid, St Olivers and Brickeys). Fairplay to them, and they one there games so comfortably as well which makes the achievement even more impressive.

The western u21 football championsip had three games on last night:

Quarter finals:

Clashmore/Kinsalebeg 2-5 v 1-10 Ballinacourty

The Nire 2-10 v An Ghaeltacht 0-10

Semi Final:

Dungarvan 2-11 v St.Olivers 2-04

The Nire will now meet Ballinacourty in the semi with the winner playing Dungarvan in the final. Apparently Brian O'Halloran played for Clashmore.

parish girl

Congratulations to St Declans who beat Pallaskenry in the Munster c hurling Final. Great year for Waterford Collages competing in all 3 SH munsterfinals and winning two.
Great display of hurling yesterday in Tipp town, Coached by Shane Briggs and Brian Murray. Jim Power Butlerstown and Darren Foran Portlaw stars on the day

deisebhoy17

abbeysideFB4L wrote: »

i feel sorry for poor jamie barron!

Why would u? He made his decision no one forced him into it. Moving schools for GAA reasons always baffles me tbh

solarith

Footballers had a good in away win in Wicklow today, 4-7 to 1-12. Promotion chances may be back on.

hardybuck

Very good win for the footballers up in Aughrim, which is a difficult place to get a result. Fermanagh will probably take first spot, but the race for second is totally wide open.

I heard the Waterford full forward line made good use of the wind and some poor Wicklow marking. Ferncombe got a hat-trick of goals and G.Hurney another.

premierstone

doz wrote: »

I think it is worth noting, and I am not sure that all people who have contributed to this debate understand, that Colaiste na nDeise is made up of two small schools from the same town (Dungarvan), which combined have a total of c. 600 male students. This is in no way comparable to what some posters are suggesting about schools/colleges from Tipp, Cork etc potentially amalgamating. In fact, at this point I think that the team should be renamed Colaisti Dun Garbhan, as this is in truth what the team now is. These players are representing a town in the same way that players from the larger schools in Nenagh, Templemoore etc are. I think there is a certain element of begrudgery going on which is completely unwarranted simply because an amalgamation of two very small schools have taken on and beaten some of the 'mighty' schools who traditionally did well in the competition. The fact of the matter is that this is a fantastic effort from a wonderfully talented group of players which deserves plaudits from all corners of the county and beyond.

Nenagh is not a ''large' school, they have less than 500 students and nobody is begrudging anyhting everyone, myself included, has said it was a grest win and well deserved but just questioned whether it was correct to allow amalgamations into the competition when they are not allowed in to so many other inter county competitions.

comeraghs

what rock did all these Colaiste na nDeise haters crawl out from?

Well done to them & I really hope they go all the way now!


& Well done to the Footballers! great result!

mickmcl09

Mountainlad wrote: »

I know of it happening. I also know of players who have been playing Harty Cup immediately upon transferring schools. How is the rule exactly defined? Is it just for lads that have already played Harty?

I'd be very suprised if it's not happening in Flannan's as well.

I'd be fairly sure it's not happening in Flannans and other schools for the most part. It's like playing for Man United or Barcelona. Any young fella with potential is going to want to have the chance not only to play with a good team but to increase their chances of winning by playing with the more successful ones. There's no doubt that kids go to certain schools to win Harty's but that schools are enticing them is a jealous misconception that comes out of certain schools winning too often.

I can't see amalgamations being the way forward in this competition and regarding the rules. The munster council is the ruling body AFAIK and they won't be long cracking down on schools again if they get wind that players are moving post junior cert. If certain schools don't have a history of winning the competition, it's highly unlikely that an official would go to the bother of checking every players eligibility under this rule.

Comeragh - who are the haters? I think nearly all posters who questioned amalgamating teams congratulated CND in the same post. Have you ever played Harty? If you have, have you ever been involved in a Harty final? Only then would you appreciate how hard it is to win one.