Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012

Cake Man

Exactly. As disappointing as last night was, I don't see the need to go off panicing and declaring Waterford hurling finished.

Sunday week against Cork will be a different game at a different level against different opposition in a different venue. If anything, I'd actually expect the likes of Philip, Paudric, Gav, Darragh, to go out and try even harder Sunday week to show that they're not as bad as last night would suggest (obviously assuming they start).

Mountainlad

Cake Man wrote: »

Exactly. As disappointing as last night was, I don't see the need to go off panicing and declaring Waterford hurling finished.

Sunday week against Cork will be a different game at a different level against different opposition in a different venue. If anything, I'd actually expect the likes of Philip, Paudric, Gav, Darragh, to go out and try even harder Sunday week to show that they're not as bad as last night would suggest (obviously assuming they start).

The most worrying and disheartening thing for me was Darragh Fives getting injured. Having a terrible struggle with injuries of late. Think it went hamstring, broken finger, and now hamstring again. Real shame because he is definitely one of the brightest lights coming through and deserves to play in these games. Sport can be cruel.

mccarthy37

Cake Man wrote: »

Exactly. As disappointing as last night was, I don't see the need to go off panicing and declaring Waterford hurling finished.

Sunday week against Cork will be a different game at a different level against different opposition in a different venue. If anything, I'd actually expect the likes of Philip, Paudric, Gav, Darragh, to go out and try even harder Sunday week to show that they're not as bad as last night would suggest (obviously assuming they start).

I genuinely hope you are right but I still believe we need to have underage success to achieve at senior level. Big beatings sap confidence I hope these lads can put this behind them but I fear if Cork get a bit in front they will feel like here we go again. As I have said I hope you are right. We should be pushing on from winning Munster titles but I don't think we have. I assure you if any of the underage teams from the top counties took these kind of hammerings there would be panic in the camps. Its not good enough to accept these loses and then think we will get successful players from these panels. After all what gave us so much hope at the start of this year.

Psychedelic

mccarthy37 wrote: »

After last nights display in Ennis its hard to feel confident about Sunday week which I feel now will be the end of a disastrous year for us.

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Not looking forward to Sunday week at all now.

What do you mean, how does last night's U21 game have anything to do with the senior game vs Cork? Apart from the few players they have in common I don't think the U21 result has any relevance whatsoever to the senior game.

alllcounty

Psychedelic wrote: »

What do you mean, how does last night's U21 game have anything to do with the senior game vs Cork? Apart from the few players they have in common I don't think the U21 result has any relevance whatsoever to the senior game.

It doesn't have any relevance to the senior game sunday week, but looking at the overall picture how is waterford going to get up to the level that Kilkenny and Tipperary have set if we continue to get hammerings at underage. The goal was to put a plan in place to maximise the county's potential and produce a strong senior inter-county panel in the coming years that can match those that are currently winning all irelands at senior level but has not been done. Therefore realistically I don't think we can get the senior team to be serious contenders for the all ireland when we are still so far off the pace especially at U21.

mccarthy37

Take Tipperary for example this year Nenagh CBS won the Dr Croke cup their one short of a clean sweep of Munster titles in hurling their even making great strides in football this didn't come from accepting big beatings at underage levels. You have got to work from the bottom up. Our last All Ireland winning team came from the minor success of '48. To say big beatings at underage will not affect our senior team going forward I don't accept.After all look within our own county at the clubs that have the most senior titles at underage it is the same story.

premierstone

hardybuck wrote: »

Personally I feel that people are getting a bit carried away with the U21 result. While I agree that the performance was very lacklustre and lacking heart, the overall aim of these underage teams is to develop players for the senior team.

If we got 1-2 players from the U21's every year we'd be ticking along nicely. That team last night has contributed 5-6 players, and there are probably another 2-3 who could step up from that team in the next couple of years.

So, if the guys are receiving the proper level of coaching and going out losing but doing the right things - I'd be satisfied. However, if the lads aren't being coached to the required level, then we have a problem.

Completely agree, some of the knee-jerk over reaction here is laughable, people saying last night put Waterford hurling back 20 years and that maybe Waterford shouldn't enter u-21 anymore, seriously :rolleyes:

2009 a so called star studded Tipp u-21 team went to Waterford and had their arses handed to them, does anyone remember the Tipp team from that night??

1. Bill McCormack (Thurles Sarsfields)
2. Donnagh Maher (Burgess)
3. Padraic Maher (Thurles Sarsfields)
4. Michael Cahill (Thurles Sarsfields)
5. Brendan Maher (Borris–Ileigh)
6. Thomas Stapleton (Templederry Kenyons)
7. Kevin Maher (Lorrha & Dorrha)
8. Gearóid Ryan (Templederry Kenyons)
9. Seamus Hennessy (Kilruane MacDonaghs)
10. Noel McGrath (Loughmore Castleiney)
11. Seamus Callanan (Drom & Inch)
12. Patrick Maher (Lorrha & Dorrha)
13. Pa Bourke (Thurles Sarsfields) Captain
14. John O’Neill (Clonoulty Rossmore)
15. Shane Bourke (JK Brackens)

You might recognise a few names there, infact the only two that havent played Senior Champioship hurling are Bill McCormack, because Brendan Cummins has been the No. 1 keeper in the country since, and Kevin Maher who has emigrated.

Dont give up on the young lads just yet lads as that Tipp team proved one bad day does not make them bad hurlers and actually in hindsight it was an exceptional Tipp team.

KevIRL

mccarthy37 wrote: »

After last nights display in Ennis its hard to feel confident about Sunday week which I feel now will be the end of a disastrous year for us. You begin to feel whats the point of trying to win when a bad beating awaits us by one of the top teams who can play the game of hurling. Very harsh words but at the start of the year I really taught we would garner something at underage level. We have some hole to climb out of now and it seems we do not have the proper tools at our disposal. The one bright light last night was our goalie Steven O Keefe who had a great game but the rest on the performance of last night would not make a junior B team in any of the top counties. If we are supposed to be the third or fourth best team in the land there is some gap there. Not looking forward to Sunday week at all now. I feel very sorry for Fergal Hartley and all the players and the supporters who were in Ennis last night. For any Waterford person to witness what happened there was horrible. Davy must have smuggled Biddy Early down here as we seemed to be cursed lately. The few glimpse's of Michael Ryan in the crowd last night he looked far from pleased I'd say he is beginning to wonder what did he get himself into at all. Its a real pity after our bit of success how far we have seemed to have slipped back. All is left to say now is well done to Clare who's future looks very bright. There's always next year I suppose.

How come PTH has signed in on your account?

mccarthy37

premierstone wrote: »

Completely agree, some of the knee-jerk over reaction here is laughable, people saying last night put Waterford hurling back 20 years and that maybe Waterford shouldn't enter u-21 anymore, seriously :rolleyes:

2009 a so called star studded Tipp u-21 team went to Waterford and had their arses handed to them, does anyone remember the Tipp team from that night??

1. Bill McCormack (Thurles Sarsfields)
2. Donnagh Maher (Burgess)
3. Padraic Maher (Thurles Sarsfields)
4. Michael Cahill (Thurles Sarsfields)
5. Brendan Maher (Borris–Ileigh)
6. Thomas Stapleton (Templederry Kenyons)
7. Kevin Maher (Lorrha & Dorrha)
8. Gearóid Ryan (Templederry Kenyons)
9. Seamus Hennessy (Kilruane MacDonaghs)
10. Noel McGrath (Loughmore Castleiney)
11. Seamus Callanan (Drom & Inch)
12. Patrick Maher (Lorrha & Dorrha)
13. Pa Bourke (Thurles Sarsfields) Captain
14. John O’Neill (Clonoulty Rossmore)
15. Shane Bourke (JK Brackens)

You might recognise a few names there, infact the only two that havent played Senior Champioship hurling are Bill McCormack, because Brendan Cummins has been the No. 1 keeper in the country since, and Kevin Maher who has emigrated.

Dont give up on the young lads just yet lads as that Tipp team proved one bad day does not make them bad hurlers and actually in hindsight it was an exceptional Tipp team.

Yes I was at that match with a few friends from over the border, we all came out in a state of shock. I taught the future looked bright for us but its backwards we went with results after that. That Tipperary team won an All Ireland after that. I have to say there are some very impressive names there but wasn't that the Wednesday after the All Ireland that Tipp lost due to a very controversial decision by your favorite Ref. I live in hope.

premierstone

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Yes I was at that match with a few friends from over the border, we all came out in a state of shock. I taught the future looked bright for us but its backwards we went with results after that. That Tipperary team won an All Ireland after that. I have to say there are some very impressive names there but wasn't that the Wednesday after the All Ireland that Tipp lost due to a very controversial decision by your favorite Ref. I live in hope.

Nope it was months before that 'person' did that :mad:

Royal Legend

I have a question and it relates to the Waterford Minor teams as well in recent years. Fror some reason, county selectors in Waterford at underage appear to pick players who are not upto the age. For example (and someone can correct me on this) there were four or five players on last years minr team that lost to Clare that were not upto the age. Also last night that were a number of players not upto the age, Dillon and O'Brien would both be classed as u19, another few of the players are u20. This is not the first time I have seen this in Waterford. I know that people will come on here and state the age of the Clare team, but again my question is, considering we have been producing good underage inter-county player for a few years now, why are we relying on 18 and 19 year olds to make up the 15 at u21 level.
Like I stated already, I noticed this with the Minor team that lost out to Clare last year, young Bennett was u16, now I have no doubt that he was good enough, but having more than 3 or 4 players not upto the age on a team has to have an effect. For two years previous to that Dillon and O'Brien and a couple of others had been on the Minor panel and in O,Brien's and Dillons case they played county monir for three years. Can selectors not find at least 13 players on the age good enough to start for the county or are they too obsessed with trying to push some of our underage talent to the highest level before they are fully ready.

Henno30

I wouldn't be inclined to draw any conclusions about the future of Waterford hurling on the basis of that performance either. I know lads involved with Forristal and U16 squads from other counties and they would all testify to the technical excellence of the Waterford teams they come up against. The coaching work being done at development squad level must be good for that to be the case.

In addition to that, the coaching structures in Clare have been revolutionized over the last 5/6 years, and they've gone from winning one game in minor or U21 hurling in a decade, to making three consecutive Munster minor finals and four of the last five U21 finals. The management team over last night's bunch have done especially good work and have consistently produced very good, technically excellent performances with these players.

All that said, Waterford shouldn't ignore last night's performance and their generally disappointing performances with players in this age group. Winning an U21 championship isn't necessarily a priority for any county, but it does reflect the county's capacity to consistently provide high quality players for the senior squad. High quality underage teams don't guarantee you anything, but they sure don't hurt.

Mountainlad

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Yes I was at that match with a few friends from over the border, we all came out in a state of shock. I taught the future looked bright for us but its backwards we went with results after that. That Tipperary team won an All Ireland after that. I have to say there are some very impressive names there but wasn't that the Wednesday after the All Ireland that Tipp lost due to a very controversial decision by your favorite Ref. I live in hope.

Nah it was the Wednesday after the Munster Final.

Royal Legend wrote: »

I have a question and it relates to the Waterford Minor teams as well in recent years. Fror some reason, county selectors in Waterford at underage appear to pick players who are not upto the age. For example (and someone can correct me on this) there were four or five players on last years minr team that lost to Clare that were not upto the age. Also last night that were a number of players not upto the age, Dillon and O'Brien would both be classed as u19, another few of the players are u20. This is not the first time I have seen this in Waterford. I know that people will come on here and state the age of the Clare team, but again my question is, considering we have been producing good underage inter-county player for a few years now, why are we relying on 18 and 19 year olds to make up the 15 at u21 level.
Like I stated already, I noticed this with the Minor team that lost out to Clare last year, young Bennett was u16, now I have no doubt that he was good enough, but having more than 3 or 4 players not upto the age on a team has to have an effect. For two years previous to that Dillon and O'Brien and a couple of others had been on the Minor panel and in O,Brien's and Dillons case they played county monir for three years. Can selectors not find at least 13 players on the age good enough to start for the county or are they too obsessed with trying to push some of our underage talent to the highest level before they are fully ready.

Barron, O'Brien and Dillon have all been on the Senior panel at some stage this year. Paudie Mahony, Paudie Prender and Darragh Fives are on the Senior panel and are u20. So to be honest it's irrelevant how young they are, provided there good enough. By that logic, we'd have a Senior team full of players in there late 20s.

Good enough=Old enough

Henno30

Waterford do need to keep freshening up their squad though. They have one of the older sides in the championship now (although still younger than KK), and Mullane, Brick, Prendergast, Kelly, and Browne are all nearer to the end than the beginning. There's going to be an inevitable slump as those guys decline, but if the underage talent is nurtured properly it doesn't necessarily have to be that bad.

deisebhoy17

The facts are that we have been competitive at senior level for the guts of 15 years now with very little success at underage level. We have been consistently in the top 3 or 4 every year and either we have been punching above our weight or we are proof that you dont need to have much underage success to be a force.
Either way I think we are at a crossroads now. We have been able to bring through massive players like Mullane, Kelly, Brick Walsh, Ken McGrath ect from underage teams that never won anything, some never even won a championship game at minor and u21 level for Waterford. This is unsustainable for a county with a relatively small pick like ourselvesand the problem now is its hard to see where the next Mullanes or Bricks are going to come from. Certainly didnt see any last night. I know it dosent happen over night but last night was supposed to be one of the strongest u21 groups weve had in a long time.

mccarthy37

premierstone wrote: »

Nope it was months before that 'person' did that :mad:

Sorry I think it was the Munster Final. Bad memory.

Straight Talker

One of the lads was down at training earlier and he hasn't seen a training session of such intensity since the O'Grady days so beware lads were primed for this.:) btw How many posters here used to be on the Up The Deise site?

Straight Talker

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

this is what ive been saying ,its like the minor disaster in thurles lads are getting these jobs but really have not got a clue how to coach teams ,simple ,

Kind of like the situation in Cork so.Is yere county board as petty and agenda driven as ours?

lovelypoint

Mountainlad wrote: »

Ok, and is that supposed to win ye the match on Sunday week?

Cork are also a good team, and also beatable.

I would expect us not be as wasteful the next day, doesn't mean it will happen. To be honest, your centre back should be the pillar from which the rest of the team builds and I'm not convinced Cadogan has sufficient quality to assume that role. I also think running at Tom Kenny, like Maurice did against Tipp, would create a lot of space inside and the potential for an over lap. If William Egan doesn't improve than you have a really suspect half backline, and that makes it difficult for any full back line. If your not winning enough ball in your own half backline than it doesn't matter how good your forwards are, they won't get the ball.

The pace of Lehane, the guile of Luke O'Farrell and the sheer quality that has been Horgan this season will take a lot of watching, no doubt but there is more to it than simply having a man for man better forward line.

Have even the Waterford folk bought into Cork having a better forward line? I have read this a few times now, and must say find myself at odds to reconcile it. Perhaps those outside the county think the only forward we have is Mullane, but would have thought all inside the county knew differently.. Seems everything Cork touch this year is perceived with a glass half full approach, while everything Waterford touch this year is perceived with a glass half empty approach!

lovelypoint

Well, very disappointing result on Thursday. Perhaps some of the knee jerk stuff is over the top, but the return from our minors and U-21's in the last few years has not been promising. On Thursday, we were hammered by a team not that dissimilar to us on paper.

Really not sure what is happening, as the talent would very much seem to be there. Bad draws can only be blamed for so much, but this year and last have been very disappointing with the U-21's, a team manned by serious players, and presided over by a manager some were touting for the Waterford senior job not so long ago.

seananigans

Mountainlad wrote: »

Nah it was the Wednesday after the Munster Final.



Barron, O'Brien and Dillon have all been on the Senior panel at some stage this year. Paudie Mahony, Paudie Prender and Darragh Fives are on the Senior panel and are u20. So to be honest it's irrelevant how young they are, provided there good enough. By that logic, we'd have a Senior team full of players in there late 20s.

Good enough=Old enough

I'd have that attitude in harveys of a saturday :-P

seananigans

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

The facts are that we have been competitive at senior level for the guts of 15 years now with very little success at underage level. We have been consistently in the top 3 or 4 every year and either we have been punching above our weight or we are proof that you dont need to have much underage success to be a force.
Either way I think we are at a crossroads now. We have been able to bring through massive players like Mullane, Kelly, Brick Walsh, Ken McGrath ect from underage teams that never won anything, some never even won a championship game at minor and u21 level for Waterford. This is unsustainable for a county with a relatively small pick like ourselvesand the problem now is its hard to see where the next Mullanes or Bricks are going to come from. Certainly didnt see any last night. I know it dosent happen over night but last night was supposed to be one of the strongest u21 groups weve had in a long time.

where did the 98 team come from? out fo the blue,while i agree that more should be done,dont be saying the future is a dead parrot

premierstone

lovelypoint wrote: »

Well, very disappointing result on Thursday. Perhaps some of the knee jerk stuff is over the top, but the return from our minors and U-21's in the last few years has not been promising. On Thursday, we were hammered by a team not that dissimilar to us on paper.

Really not sure what is happening, as the talent would very much seem to be there. Bad draws can only be blamed for so much, but this year and last have been very disappointing with the U-21's, a team manned by serious players, and presided over by a a manager some were touting for the Waterford senior job not so long ago.

Dont know about that, I would have said Clare were a good bit stronger on paper, its a good bit stronger gthan ours on paper aswell tbh. Not enough people here giving Clare enough credit, it is an exceptional u-21 team.

lovelypoint

wex_lad wrote: »

I have to disagree with your final point regarding Paul O'Brien, I don't think he's up to this standard at all. Fair enough he won a couple of crucial frees against Clare but I just don't think he offers any sort of scoring theat, but perhaps it could be argued that he's worth 2 or 3 points to the team from frees.....not if Maurice keeps missing them though

Not sure I would agree. Perhaps he did not get the return we would have hoped from, from play, but in a half forward line, where we are strongly dependent on Prendergast, thought O'Brien looked lively enough when he came on, to perhaps be able to play a role there. In fairness, I was probably looking at him more in relation to potential than a clinical assessment of his performance on Sunday.

The Great Chinholio wrote: »

He didnt do much wrong in terms of defense but his clearances were absolutely atrocious and infuriating. I can't remember once strong ball up the field. They were all shortish hanging balls or small taps to the half back line.

Well, Lawlor is far from an All Star full back, but everything I see from him is promising. A bit more work on some aspects of his game, and I think we will be very strong in front of the square, as long as he remains fit.

lovelypoint

premierstone wrote: »

Dont know about that, I would have said Clare were a good bit stronger on paper, its a good bit stronger gthan ours on paper aswell tbh. Not enough people here giving Clare enough credit, it is an exceptional u-21 team.

Well, perhaps we'll disagree there. This Waterford U-21 is one of the strongest I've seen from us on paper, but whereas we would have not seen Clare as too far ahead of us (ahead, but not that far ahead) two or three years ago, the gulf has just widened and continued to widen it would seem. All due credit to this Clare team, they have gone from strength to strength, and as a Waterfordman, am just at odds to see where it has gone wrong for us. On Thursday, I would have seen home advantage, and strength from success and momentum being perhaps the deciding factors in tipping it Clare's way, but definitely would not have seen them as being twenty points ahead of us on talent or on paper.

premierstone

As I have pointed out on a few other threads already, minor form from 3 years previously means nothing at u-21 level, just look at the players individually and anyone impartial could clearly see Clare had the better quality of players, the bookies didnt pluck them odds from thin air , obviously I agree on paper they are not 20 points better but imo they are superior, tbh very few outside of Waterford were giving them a chance.

Mountainlad

lovelypoint wrote: »

Have even the Waterford folk bought into Cork having a better forward line? I have read this a few times now, and must say find myself at odds to reconcile it. Perhaps those outside the county think the only forward we have is Mullane, but would have thought all inside the county knew differently.. Seems everything Cork touch this year is perceived with a glass half full approach, while everything Waterford touch this year is perceived with a glass half empty approach!

Well I think they do have a better forward line. Probably not by an awful lot, but they're probably better able to take their scores. Horgan has been unreal this year, I think Luke O'Farrell is an excellent finisher, Lehane is lethal, Pa Cronin drifts in and out of games but has quality. Was never pne to rate Niall McCarthy but he's taken some nice scores this year. Paudi O Sullivan is definitely incosistent but still can be dangerous.

Shane Walsh and Mullane are the two big scoring threats. Sure, Seamus brings a big aerial threat and Maurice is great to run at defences, but they're no going to get that many scores. Mahony and O'Brien as well aren't likely to score too much. If they all chipped in however, and the midfield got a score or two then between that and frees you could still put up a match winning score. Think we have a better defense than Cork. Midfield, as usual, is the key area but we've been doing well there this year.

seananigans wrote: »

I'd have that attitude in harveys of a saturday :-P

Hahaha very good!

deisebhoy17

seananigans wrote: »

where did the 98 team come from? out fo the blue,while i agree that more should be done,dont be saying the future is a dead parrot

The 98 team was backboned the 1992 AI winning u21 team and minor beaten finalists. It took 6 years for that to bring any kind of success and to be fair we got a lot out of those 2 good underage teams. Shur Tony is still playing even! We won absolutely nothing at underage from the early 90s until dls college made the harty cup breakthrough in 07 so when you look at it we tend to punch above our weight as it is.

deisebhoy17

premierstone wrote: »

As I have pointed out on a few other threads already, minor form from 3 years previously means nothing at u-21 level, just look at the players individually and anyone impartial could clearly see Clare had the better quality of players, the bookies didnt pluck them odds from thin air , obviously I agree on paper they are not 20 points better but imo they are superior, tbh very few outside of Waterford were giving them a chance.

No one is denying that this isnt an outstanding Clare team and that they were the bookies favourites on merit. But its the dreadful showing from our own team that has everyone concerned. Theres nothing we can do about Clare if theyre better than us theyre better than us. But Something is seriously wrong from our own end.
Waterford beat Clare 3 years ago in the Munster minor semi final in Ennis, and again the following year in the first round of the Minor championship in Walsh Park. Like you say previous results count for nothing but how has these group of players fallen back so badly in a short space of time to get this kind of a heavy beating against more or less the same opposition just a couple years down the line? Clare have obviously progressed but we have fallen alarmingly backwards.

Royal Legend

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

No one is denying that this isnt an outstanding Clare team and that they were the bookies favourites on merit. But its the dreadful showing from our own team that has everyone concerned. Theres nothing we can do about Clare if theyre better than us theyre better than us. But Something is seriously wrong from our own end.
Waterford beat Clare 3 years ago in the Munster minor semi final in Ennis, and again the following year in the first round of the Minor championship in Walsh Park. Like you say previous results count for nothing but how has these group of players fallen back so badly in a short space of time to get this kind of a heavy beating against more or less the same opposition just a couple years down the line? Clare have obviously progressed but we have fallen alarmingly backwards.

There is also an apathy with county selectors to looking for new talent that may have matured later than others. I do think that lads picked at u13 for the Tony Forristal are then perceived as the panel all the way to Minor. Different kids develop at different times and a just becuase a kid is tall, fast or strong at 13 and stands out, does not mean that the kid at 13 that does not stand out, will not be a better hurler at 17 or 18 years of age.
If I am not mistaken, Kikenny split into regions at underage, to try to develop a higher number of players.
Again also, as far as I can see, players from small clubs get left out, whether this is due to inadequate coaching within the club or a lack of competition as some of these players could be playing division 3 hurling, how many players do you see wearing a county jersey at 14 or 15 from the very small clubs in the county.
The bigger clubs have an advantage as regards the numbers they have and the resources in regards to the number and quality of people that they have available to coach players.
As well as this I have also seen potentially hugely talented players being dropped off of county panels becuase of a perceived weakness, not being able to strike on the run was one common excuse, what are the coaches at inter-county level actually doing, especially at u13/14, what they seem interested is in the finished article and them the concentrationis on winning. IMO at that stage, winning is secondary, development of skill is upmost, what you want is teams winning or at least competing at the highest level by Minor and possibly u21

seananigans

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

The 98 team was backboned the 1992 AI winning u21 team and minor beaten finalists. It took 6 years for that to bring any kind of success and to be fair we got a lot out of those 2 good underage teams. Shur Tony is still playing even! We won absolutely nothing at underage from the early 90s until dls college made the harty cup breakthrough in 07 so when you look at it we tend to punch above our weight as it is.

by that logic assuming 6 years after u21 success adding 2 at a minimmum between harty and u 21, we should be right by 2014-15

seananigans

Royal Legend wrote: »

There is also an apathy with county selectors to looking for new talent that may have matured later than others. I do think that lads picked at u13 for the Tony Forristal are then perceived as the panel all the way to Minor. Different kids develop at different times and a just becuase a kid is tall, fast or strong at 13 and stands out, does not mean that the kid at 13 that does not stand out, will not be a better hurler at 17 or 18 years of age.
If I am not mistaken, Kikenny split into regions at underage, to try to develop a higher number of players.
Again also, as far as I can see, players from small clubs get left out, whether this is due to inadequate coaching within the club or a lack of competition as some of these players could be playing division 3 hurling, how many players do you see wearing a county jersey at 14 or 15 from the very small clubs in the county.
The bigger clubs have an advantage as regards the numbers they have and the resources in regards to the number and quality of people that they have available to coach players.
As well as this I have also seen potentially hugely talented players being dropped off of county panels becuase of a perceived weakness, not being able to strike on the run was one common excuse, what are the coaches at inter-county level actually doing, especially at u13/14, what they seem interested is in the finished article and them the concentrationis on winning. IMO at that stage, winning is secondary, development of skill is upmost, what you want is teams winning or at least competing at the highest level by Minor and possibly u21

Its well known that most great athletes tend to be the ones who go to school a year later,there is a trend across all sports

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-15490760

mccarthy37

Our last throw of the dice is next Sunday I wonder how will we fair. It has been a very disappointing year for underage hurling in Waterford. Lets hope we wont have more disappointment heaped on us next Sunday. You have to wonder though how much further we will go if we do beat Cork. To appear in four Munster minor Finals has been very exciting but to only win one is a very poor record. At the same time though a win next Sunday for the seniors would give us a bit of hope. I suppose the papers will have Cork installed as favourites for this one and maybe it would suit us better. Cork will have no fear of us and I fear if they get a good start our heads may drop and Cork gain confidence from any sign of weakness in whoever they are playing. Lets hope for no injuries and that the senior players who featured with the under 21's Thursday night will redeem themselves and give a display that they are well capable of.

Mountainlad

Royal Legend wrote: »

There is also an apathy with county selectors to looking for new talent that may have matured later than others. I do think that lads picked at u13 for the Tony Forristal are then perceived as the panel all the way to Minor. Different kids develop at different times and a just becuase a kid is tall, fast or strong at 13 and stands out, does not mean that the kid at 13 that does not stand out, will not be a better hurler at 17 or 18 years of age.
If I am not mistaken, Kikenny split into regions at underage, to try to develop a higher number of players.
Again also, as far as I can see, players from small clubs get left out, whether this is due to inadequate coaching within the club or a lack of competition as some of these players could be playing division 3 hurling, how many players do you see wearing a county jersey at 14 or 15 from the very small clubs in the county.
The bigger clubs have an advantage as regards the numbers they have and the resources in regards to the number and quality of people that they have available to coach players.
As well as this I have also seen potentially hugely talented players being dropped off of county panels becuase of a perceived weakness, not being able to strike on the run was one common excuse, what are the coaches at inter-county level actually doing, especially at u13/14, what they seem interested is in the finished article and them the concentrationis on winning. IMO at that stage, winning is secondary, development of skill is upmost, what you want is teams winning or at least competing at the highest level by Minor and possibly u21

Dunno about that. There are a couple of player that played Sonny Walsh or not even, the year of the Tony Forristal win and now they are on the u21/Senior panels.

deisebhoy17

Mountainlad wrote: »

Dunno about that. There are a couple of player that played Sonny Walsh or not even, the year of the Tony Forristal win and now they are on the u21/Senior panels.

John Mullane never played Tony Forristal. only made the Sonny Walsh panel when he was u14. So you can never say for certain which players will/will not make it

Mountainlad

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

John Mullane never played Tony Forristal. only made the Sonny Walsh panel when he was u14. So you can never say for certain which players will/will not make it

Exactly

Royal Legend

Mountainlad wrote: »

Dunno about that. There are a couple of player that played Sonny Walsh or not even, the year of the Tony Forristal win and now they are on the u21/Senior panels.

Just out of interest who exactly?

Mountainlad

Royal Legend wrote: »

Just out of interest who exactly?

Jamie Barron is one, think Donie Breathnach likewise. Not sure after that bgut I believe there are a couple more. Stephen Molumphy didn't play underage for waterford I don't think, maybe u21.

deisebhoy17

Mountainlad wrote: »

Jamie Barron is one, think Donie Breathnach likewise. Not sure after that bgut I believe there are a couple more. Stephen Molumphy didn't play underage for waterford I don't think, maybe u21.

ah no Molumphy did. He always looked a huge prospect from Tony Forristal up to minor and at college level with St. Colmans.

Mountainlad

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

ah no Molumphy did. He always looked a huge prospect from Tony Forristal up to minor and at college level with St. Colmans.

Ah right. Had heard that Mike was the one people thought more of and that Stephen came out of the woodwork.

deisebhoy17

Mountainlad wrote: »

Ah right. Had heard that Mike was the one people thought more of and that Stephen came out of the woodwork.

Id have been aware of Stephen as he was around my age group at underage and would have played against him a good few times and everyone kind of knew him as the one to watch. Wouldnt know much about Mike but he got a run with the county seniors one year alright. i think maybe 99 or 2000

The blue blaa

deisebhoy17 wrote: »

Mountainlad wrote: »

Ah right. Had heard that Mike was the one people thought more of and that Stephen came out of the woodwork.

Id have been aware of Stephen as he was around my age group at underage and would have played against him a good few times and everyone kind of knew him as the one to watch. Wouldnt know much about Mike but he got a run with the county seniors one year alright. i think maybe 99 or 2000

Stephen Molumphy was on Sonny Walsh in 97 and on the Tony Forristal in 98

WumBuster

mccarthy37 wrote: »

Our last throw of the dice is next Sunday I wonder how will we fair. It has been a very disappointing year for underage hurling in Waterford. Lets hope we wont have more disappointment heaped on us next Sunday. You have to wonder though how much further we will go if we do beat Cork. To appear in four Munster minor Finals has been very exciting but to only win one is a very poor record. At the same time though a win next Sunday for the seniors would give us a bit of hope. I suppose the papers will have Cork installed as favourites for this one and maybe it would suit us better. Cork will have no fear of us and I fear if they get a good start our heads may drop and Cork gain confidence from any sign of weakness in whoever they are playing. Lets hope for no injuries and that the senior players who featured with the under 21's Thursday night will redeem themselves and give a display that they are well capable of.

I think if we play well we can definitely beat Cork. Dont think they're that great tbh, few handy young players but nothing to have you quaking in your boots like previous teams. But if we dont play well they will beat us. Both teams should be really up for it and i expect an exciting match.

Optimist eternal

WumBuster wrote: »

I think if we play well we can definitely beat Cork. Dont think they're that great tbh, few handy young players but nothing to have you quaking in your boots like previous teams. But if we dont play well they will beat us. Both teams should be really up for it and i expect an exciting match.

I agree with you...... of course we're well capable of beating the Rebels. If we play anywhere near our potential, we should have no problem.

deisebhoy17

[QUOTE=Optimist eternal;79865142 If we play anywhere near our potential, we should have no problem.[/QUOTE]

Wouldnt be that confident. We'll have to be at our best, and that means a big improvement from the Munster final. But they are definetly beatable.

hurler on de ditch

WumBuster wrote: »

I think if we play well we can definitely beat Cork. Dont think they're that great tbh, few handy young players but nothing to have you quaking in your boots like previous teams. But if we dont play well they will beat us. Both teams should be really up for it and i expect an exciting match.

that post was hardly rocket science now was it ?

deisegirl67

Does anyone know of buses heading to Thurles on Sunday - a friend of mine looking for info.

WumBuster

hurler on de ditch wrote: »

that post was hardly rocket science now was it ?

Neither is yours. I think man for man we are better team actually. No more forensic analysis needed.

skaface

Well folks, today week we will know our faith,
We will be discussing one of these two topics

1 What went wrong, how would you judge our season ?
OR
2 Looking forward to an AI Semi-Final with Galway !

With the right attitude by the players and a bit of luck on the day, it will be the latter.

I really hope that we get a big Waterford crowd in Thurles on Sunday, it could make all the difference to the team.
Down through the years it is no secret that the Waterford team and supporters
favour Thurles than any other venue in the country..
so lets really get behind the team and show eveyone why we have the best supporters in the country on Sunday.

" UP THE DEICES"

zol 2

Looking forward to this on Sunday,Cork are very confident of victory and are targeting our fullback line as our weakness. There own central positions are anything but secure as in fullback and centreback and we definitely can target them in those positions.They blamed Denis Walsh for losing to us in 2010 and have their full faith this time in jbm to guide them to the promised land,starting next Sunday!
Did anyone hear that Jamie Barron and Ray Barry have been brought into the setup? Barron was supposed to have played well in the trial game on Sunday and a Lismore man told me that Barry was outstanding in a club game over the weekend against Na Piarsaigh of Cork scoring 1-15 and that he heard the 2 of them were to be brought in? If its true i take it Michael Ryan isn't going on what he saw at the u21 in Ennis!!