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Waterford GAA Discussion Thread 2011-2012
Comments
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Smiley Burnett wrote: »I couldnt figure out why most pundits/bloggers/bookies were tipping passage to beat dungarvan.
As the above is a dig, what I would love to know is how many minutes did Eoin Kelly play against Dungarvan, and if he managed to play a full sixty minutes, how much of a points head start would have he been for Passage.
Congratulations to Dungarvan and for what its worth, I feel the Old Boro will have too much for Tallow in the quarter finals. It should be a great achievement for Dungarvan to get to a County Semi Final and even possibly a final if they manage to avoid De La Salle or Ballygunner in the semi finals, provided all three advance that far.0 -
As the above is a dig, what I would love to know is how many minutes did Eoin Kelly play against Dungarvan, and if he managed to play a full sixty minutes, how much of a points head start would have he been for Passage.
Congratulations to Dungarvan and for what its worth, I feel the Old Boro will have too much for Tallow in the quarter finals. It should be a great achievement for Dungarvan to get to a County Semi Final and even possibly a final if they manage to avoid De La Salle or Ballygunner in the semi finals, provided all three advance that far.
Your reading on it so Tom is that Dungarvan will beat Fourmilewater in a semi-final provided the Ballymac outfit beat Abbeyside next weekend? That if it comes off would make a cracker of a semi final if De la Salle and Ballygunner were drawn together in the other one.0 -
We've mentioned it many times before, but if there are any County Board delegates reading this - we badly need a Senior B Championship. If it hasn't already been discussed in earlier County Board meetings, it surely must be discussed before the end of 2012.
DLS won their last game by 30 points, the game before that by 26 points and the game before that again by 23 points. What does this do for either team involved?0 -
Your reading on it so Tom is that Dungarvan will beat Fourmilewater in a semi-final provided the Ballymac outfit beat Abbeyside next weekend? That if it comes off would make a cracker of a semi final if De la Salle and Ballygunner were drawn together in the other one.
If football was to become the number one game in Ballymac in the coming weeks, I could see Dungarvan beating FOurmile, but if hurling was to be the number 1 game, then It is Fourmilewater that might advance. But there is no point in worrying about it till all teams are through to the semi finals and we know that De La Salle and Ballygunner dont clash in the semi finals for the second year running.0 -
Waterford Senior Hurling 1/4 Finals.
Four mouthwatering games.
Sat 8 Sept. 6pm Fraher Field.
Fourmilewater v Abbeyside
Sat 15 Sept. Fraher Field
4pm Tallow v Dungarvan
5.30pm Lismore v De La Salle
Sun 16 Sept Walsh Park
3pm Mt. Sion v Ballygunner.0 -
If football was to become the number one game in Ballymac in the coming weeks, I could see Dungarvan beating FOurmile, but if hurling was to be the number 1 game, then It is Fourmilewater that might advance. But there is no point in worrying about it till all teams are through to the semi finals and we know that De La Salle and Ballygunner dont clash in the semi finals for the second year running.
You're probably right about the draw! I have a feeling it will be like the"draws" down through the years that never paired Ballygunner or Mt Sion together when both were regarded as the best 2 tems in the county! The only small chance of it happening might be that the hurling final is fixed for Fraher Field this year,along with the minor final,but i know i'm clutching at straws!0 -
We've mentioned it many times before, but if there are any County Board delegates reading this - we badly need a Senior B Championship. If it hasn't already been discussed in earlier County Board meetings, it surely must be discussed before the end of 2012.
DLS won their last game by 30 points, the game before that by 26 points and the game before that again by 23 points. What does this do for either team involved?
Something has to be done alright but if you go back far enough it has been this way for years with other clubs like Ballygunner,Mt Sion,and Lismore to a lesser extent,not having to peak until q/final time as they new they could cruise through the group stages. Would the introduction of a Western and Eastern championship help in some way or the introduction of 1 group of 12 teams and the top 4 qualifying for the semi finals,like the minor championship is being run at the moment?0 -
Something has to be done alright but if you go back far enough it has been this way for years with other clubs like Ballygunner,Mt Sion,and Lismore to a lesser extent,not having to peak until q/final time as they new they could cruise through the group stages. Would the introduction of a Western and Eastern championship help in some way or the introduction of 1 group of 12 teams and the top 4 qualifying for the semi finals,like the minor championship is being run at the moment?
No, as you'd still have the same problem. Two of the teams DLS hammered were from the East, and the other from the West. To cut straight to the point, there are a number of teams who aren't at senior championship level.
In intermediate at the moment, you've got teams like DLS and Mount Sion who will be challenging for the divisional title most years - not ideal.
Take the bottom four teams from senior, and the finalists from the east and west intermediate to form a 8 team senior championship and a 8 team senior b/intermediate premier. Each competition would have 7 games, with the top four progressing to semi finals, and the bottom four playing relegation semi's.0 -
You're probably right about the draw! I have a feeling it will be like the"draws" down through the years that never paired Ballygunner or Mt Sion together when both were regarded as the best 2 tems in the county! The only small chance of it happening might be that the hurling final is fixed for Fraher Field this year,along with the minor final,but i know i'm clutching at straws!
The semi final draw last year in hurling which paired DLS and Ballygunner was 100% NOT fixed, as some suspect the semi final draws were in the past. I saw the draw taking place and the teams were drawn by children in Fraher Field.0 -
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The semi final draw last year in hurling which paired DLS and Ballygunner was 100% NOT fixed, as some suspect the semi final draws were in the past. I saw the draw taking place and the teams were drawn by children in Fraher Field.
I don't doubt you Tom but even you must find it"UNUSUAL" that the draws down through the years never paired the big two together?! I've no proof to say otherwise but it just seemed a bit far fetched that they would keep avoiding each other over that length of period.
As for the q/final this w/end i'm looking forward to seeing how Abbeyside will deal with Jamie Barron and Shane Walsh in the Fourmilewater attack as both are extremely good forwards and will take some watching. Will Abbeyside's near collapse against Ballyduff Upper have any bearing on the outcome? Will it still be playing on their minds? We'll soon find out! I think Fourmilewater will have too much in hand to be honest and should advance to the semi's.0 -
Hurling
Michael Ryan, Ken Mcgrath and Sean Cullinane look set to stay on for 2013. Could be quite a difficult job with so many retirements happening this year.
Football
With Jason Ryan stepping down in Wexford can we see him take the senoir job in Waterford. Anymore names considered for the Job, Mick O Dwyer, Paidi O Se ??0 -
Hurling
Michael Ryan, Ken Mcgrath and Sean Cullinane look set to stay on for 2013. Could be quite a difficult job with so many retirements happening this year.
Football
With Jason Ryan stepping down in Wexford can we see him take the senoir job in Waterford. Anymore names considered for the Job, Mick O Dwyer, Paidi O Se ??
Are you well!? Waterford county board have no money, so you can forget about any outside manager I'd say, never mind the likes of O'Se or O'Dwyer!
As for Jason, apparently he suffered a serious injury training for DLS last week, so I wonder did this impact on his decision making. I think that far bigger counties than Waterford will come looking for him...0 -
I don't doubt you Tom but even you must find it"UNUSUAL" that the draws down through the years never paired the big two together?! I've no proof to say otherwise but it just seemed a bit far fetched that they would keep avoiding each other over that length of period.
As for the q/final this w/end i'm looking forward to seeing how Abbeyside will deal with Jamie Barron and Shane Walsh in the Fourmilewater attack as both are extremely good forwards and will take some watching. Will Abbeyside's near collapse against Ballyduff Upper have any bearing on the outcome? Will it still be playing on their minds? We'll soon find out! I think Fourmilewater will have too much in hand to be honest and should advance to the semi's.
As Deise Tom said, it happened last year that they met in the semi final.
De La Salle only became a big player in Waterford in 2008, and even then they scraped through the County championship. In 2009, they were screwed by Pat Casey but they lost out to Ballygunner in a quarter final. In 2010, they met in the final, but that is the only time they have met in a final. I don't think the draws are fixed. There's not a lot between Fourmilewater, De La Salle and Ballygunner anyway. Supposing Fourmile won the County where they beat DLS in the final (all hypothetical now, don't any take this as me saying something I'm not), would people then go on about how the draw was fixed so they wouldn't meet in the Semi Final?
The bottom line is that all of those teams have quarter finals to win before they can start thinking about semi finals. Ballygunner have shown this year that they can be beaten, and while the scoreline was impressive the last day, two sendings off would suggest it maybe didn't tell the whole story of the game and that it wasn't Lismore as they have been this year in the County championship. Also, they were cruising through their group last year, hammering teams for fun, when they met Mount Sion in the last game (who had drawn with both Passage and Tallow, both of which the Gunners accounted for with ease) and were beaten. We've seen how teams getting talked up can be detrimental already this year (Dublin v Kilkenny and then Kilkenny v Galway), so don't take anything for granted.0 -
I don't doubt you Tom but even you must find it"UNUSUAL" that the draws down through the years never paired the big two together?! I've no proof to say otherwise but it just seemed a bit far fetched that they would keep avoiding each other over that length of period.
As for the q/final this w/end i'm looking forward to seeing how Abbeyside will deal with Jamie Barron and Shane Walsh in the Fourmilewater attack as both are extremely good forwards and will take some watching. Will Abbeyside's near collapse against Ballyduff Upper have any bearing on the outcome? Will it still be playing on their minds? We'll soon find out! I think Fourmilewater will have too much in hand to be honest and should advance to the semi's.
I have no doubt that in the past, the draws were a little suspicious. How could Mount Sion and Ballygunner have avoided each other so often. On the law of averages you would have to say that the should clash. Last year I saw the semi finals draws performed and they were 100% fair. The draws for the group stages were also done very fair. I have seen them drawn as well. One think however I would like to see done away with is the seeded draw. I would put all twelve teams into the hat against each other. As things stand, the teams that wins the county final this year will be in group one next year and the beaten team are in group two. The team beaten by the county champions in the semi finals go into group two and the team beaten in the semis by the beaten finalists go into group one. I know in an open draw you could get a lopsided draw, but so be it.0 -
Are you well!? Waterford county board have no money, so you can forget about any outside manager I'd say, never mind the likes of O'Se or O'Dwyer!
As for Jason, apparently he suffered a serious injury training for DLS last week, so I wonder did this impact on his decision making. I think that far bigger counties than Waterford will come looking for him...
I think the Co. Board have got to go in for Jason Ryan now that hes available. At the end of the day hes a Waterford man and a proud one at that. I think he'd love a chance to take the reigns so I dont see lack of funds from the co. board being a major stumbling block.
At least approach him and see what he has to say. It would be ideal for him aswell as there is absolutely no expectation with this job, hes living in the city, working in the west, I dont see why we couldnt get him on board for a year and see where it takes us. Now is the time while the players are still there. A few years down the line we could be in trouble.
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Hurling
Michael Ryan, Ken Mcgrath and Sean Cullinane look set to stay on for 2013. Could be quite a difficult job with so many retirements happening this year.
Football
With Jason Ryan stepping down in Wexford can we see him take the senoir job in Waterford. Anymore names considered for the Job, Mick O Dwyer, Paidi O Se ??
True, but with players like Jamie Barron and others coming through, I am sure that Michael, Ken and Sean will be giving them plenty of time in the Waterford Crystal Tournament, the League and in challenge games to show that they are good enough to fill the boots of those that have decided to call it a day.
As for Jason Ryan, I would love to see him get the Waterford job, but have heard from a good source that he has up to that point shown little or no interest in the job. To be honest, unless things change, anyone taking the job will have their hands fairly tied in what they can do with the players. We say this happen this year and I would say what happened helped John Owens who did well in his three years in charge of Waterford, make up his mind not to seek re-election.0 -
Are you well!? Waterford county board have no money, so you can forget about any outside manager I'd say, never mind the likes of O'Se or O'Dwyer!
As for Jason, apparently he suffered a serious injury training for DLS last week, so I wonder did this impact on his decision making. I think that far bigger counties than Waterford will come looking for him...
Can you say this with hand on heart. I have often heard that Micko is not a money man and his involement in the game if for the love of it and nothing else. I cant prove this however as it is only word of mouth and as things do the rounds, bits can be added or deleted.0 -
deisebhoy17 wrote: »I think the Co. Board have got to go in for Jason Ryan now that hes available. At the end of the day hes a Waterford man and a proud one at that. I think he'd love a chance to take the reigns so I dont see lack of funds from the co. board being a major stumbling block.
At least approach him and see what he has to say. It would be ideal for him aswell as there is absolutely no expectation with this job, hes living in the city, working in the west, I dont see why we couldnt get him on board for a year and see where it takes us. Now is the time while the players are still there. A few years down the line we could be in trouble.
Oh they should definitely approach Ryan, but don't expect an outsider. I expect Jason to take a break though. He's commented a couple of times about the time commitment and the impact on his family. I could see him taking a couple of years out before figuring out his next move.0 -
Can you say this with hand on heart. I have often heard that Micko is not a money man and his involement in the game if for the love of it and nothing else. I cant prove this however as it is only word of mouth and as things do the rounds, bits can be added or deleted.
I can yeah. I would know people who were very involved in one of the counties he was involved with. A new sponser came on board at the same time he was appointed if you catch my drift.
Furthermore, he prioritised the Championship at all costs in counties like Wicklow. He picked them up in Division 4 and left them there. While they won a couple of games in Championship under him, ultimately it didn't do much for the long term of the county expect raise the profile slightly. His replacement, a Wicklow man, got them promoted to Div. 3 in his first year, and this is the direction from where they can improve in the long run.0 -
Can you say this with hand on heart. I have often heard that Micko is not a money man and his involement in the game if for the love of it and nothing else. I cant prove this however as it is only word of mouth and as things do the rounds, bits can be added or deleted.
A cute kerry hoor like him thats the impression he will always give off. Theres no doubting his passion for the game but its more than just coincidence that hes had businesses in Wicklow and Kidare at the time he was managing both counties.0 -
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Could anyone tell me how the county board go about appointing referees for senior championship club games? Referees are often appointed to games and removed for one reason or another with no explanation offered. This has happened a number of times this year in the senior hurling club championship. Tommy Sullivan was due to ref the Ballyduff Abbeyside game but was removed. Michael Wadding (an uncle of an Abbeyside player who played the full game) was then appointed. Abbeyside had objected to the fact that Ballyduff had had Tommy Sullivan referee challenge matches during the year. How did the county board come to the conclusion that taking Tommy Sullivan off the game and appointing a relation of the Abbeyside team would make this a fairer game? Wadding should never have been even considered for this game due to his family ties to Abbeyside! I believe that Dublin had an intercounty referee, was it Joe McQuillan, who refereed 4 of their 6 championship games last year, refereed a number of their training matches and was appointed to this years all ireland semi final without a word of complaint from Mayo. Yet somehow our county board rewarded Abbeyside for complaining about a referee by appointing an uncle of a player of theirs. Seems very strange..
Secondly, Michael Wadding told the players that there was to be 4 minutes additional time played. Ballyduff were a point up and following an Abbeyside equaliser Wadding decided to blow the game up on the resumption, some 45 seconds into the 4 minutes he had told players would be played. This was actually referred to by Tomas McCarthy in the Waterford News and Star this week however I cannot find a link to this on their website. This would appear to show bias on Waddings part towards Abbeyside but also calls into question the procedure around the announcement of added time. If the game had been played in Fraher Field or Walsh Park an announcement would have been made that 4 minutes additional time was to be played. Had Wadding then blown the final whistle after 45 seconds there would have been mayhem! However as the game was played in Cappoquin and no announcement was made as to additional time Wadding was able to take matters into his own hands and blow the final whistle some 3 minutes early before running off the field!
I am not for one minute suggesting this cost Ballyduff Upper their place in the quarter finals. Abbeyside could have just as easily thrown over a few scores in the remaining 3 minutes. However it is an absolute disgrace that a man who should never have been appointed to the game in the first place was allowed to blow the game up early suiting the team he had connections with. A loss was worth the same to Ballyduff as a draw was to them, they were denied a fair chance to gain a win to enter them into the quarter finals and somebody should have to answer for this!0 -
Could anyone tell me how the county board go about appointing referees for senior championship club games? Referees are often appointed to games and removed for one reason or another with no explanation offered. This has happened a number of times this year in the senior hurling club championship. Tommy Sullivan was due to ref the Ballyduff Abbeyside game but was removed. Michael Wadding (an uncle of an Abbeyside player who played the full game) was then appointed. Abbeyside had objected to the fact that Ballyduff had had Tommy Sullivan referee challenge matches during the year. How did the county board come to the conclusion that taking Tommy Sullivan off the game and appointing a relation of the Abbeyside team would make this a fairer game? Wadding should never have been even considered for this game due to his family ties to Abbeyside! I believe that Dublin had an intercounty referee, was it Joe McQuillan, who refereed 4 of their 6 championship games last year, refereed a number of their training matches and was appointed to this years all ireland semi final without a word of complaint from Mayo. Yet somehow our county board rewarded Abbeyside for complaining about a referee by appointing an uncle of a player of theirs. Seems very strange..
Secondly, Michael Wadding told the players that there was to be 4 minutes additional time played. Ballyduff were a point up and following an Abbeyside equaliser Wadding decided to blow the game up on the resumption, some 45 seconds into the 4 minutes he had told players would be played. This was actually referred to by Tomas McCarthy in the Waterford News and Star this week however I cannot find a link to this on their website. This would appear to show bias on Waddings part towards Abbeyside but also calls into question the procedure around the announcement of added time. If the game had been played in Fraher Field or Walsh Park an announcement would have been made that 4 minutes additional time was to be played. Had Wadding then blown the final whistle after 45 seconds there would have been mayhem! However as the game was played in Cappoquin and no announcement was made as to additional time Wadding was able to take matters into his own hands and blow the final whistle some 3 minutes early before running off the field!
I am not for one minute suggesting this cost Ballyduff Upper their place in the quarter finals. Abbeyside could have just as easily thrown over a few scores in the remaining 3 minutes. However it is an absolute disgrace that a man who should never have been appointed to the game in the first place was allowed to blow the game up early suiting the team he had connections with. A loss was worth the same to Ballyduff as a draw was to them, they were denied a fair chance to gain a win to enter them into the quarter finals and somebody should have to answer for this!
I agree entirely about the decision to appoint Wadding as referee not being the right call by the County board.
I do have an issue or two with your gripe. For a start, seen as there was no added time announced, and you yourself weren't told by the ref that there was 4 minutes, your complaint is based purely on hearsay. Secondly, while it was blown up early, that could be easily as much of a disadvantage to Abbeyside as it was the difference between them finishing higher in the table and possibly getting a better draw.
Ballyduff had a fair opportunity to win the game, if that was the worst decision made on the day. How much were they behind at half time? Would I be correct in saying it was as much as 12 points? If so, that's what cost them. They should beat Dunhill regardless. And as I said I do agree that Wadding shouldn't have been in charge but I do think that it's probably a bit much to suggest his connections to an Abbeyside player cost Ballyduff in this instance.0 -
Could anyone tell me how the county board go about appointing referees for senior championship club games? Referees are often appointed to games and removed for one reason or another with no explanation offered. This has happened a number of times this year in the senior hurling club championship. Tommy Sullivan was due to ref the Ballyduff Abbeyside game but was removed. Michael Wadding (an uncle of an Abbeyside player who played the full game) was then appointed. Abbeyside had objected to the fact that Ballyduff had had Tommy Sullivan referee challenge matches during the year. How did the county board come to the conclusion that taking Tommy Sullivan off the game and appointing a relation of the Abbeyside team would make this a fairer game? Wadding should never have been even considered for this game due to his family ties to Abbeyside! I believe that Dublin had an intercounty referee, was it Joe McQuillan, who refereed 4 of their 6 championship games last year, refereed a number of their training matches and was appointed to this years all ireland semi final without a word of complaint from Mayo. Yet somehow our county board rewarded Abbeyside for complaining about a referee by appointing an uncle of a player of theirs. Seems very strange..
Secondly, Michael Wadding told the players that there was to be 4 minutes additional time played. Ballyduff were a point up and following an Abbeyside equaliser Wadding decided to blow the game up on the resumption, some 45 seconds into the 4 minutes he had told players would be played. This was actually referred to by Tomas McCarthy in the Waterford News and Star this week however I cannot find a link to this on their website. This would appear to show bias on Waddings part towards Abbeyside but also calls into question the procedure around the announcement of added time. If the game had been played in Fraher Field or Walsh Park an announcement would have been made that 4 minutes additional time was to be played. Had Wadding then blown the final whistle after 45 seconds there would have been mayhem! However as the game was played in Cappoquin and no announcement was made as to additional time Wadding was able to take matters into his own hands and blow the final whistle some 3 minutes early before running off the field!
I am not for one minute suggesting this cost Ballyduff Upper their place in the quarter finals. Abbeyside could have just as easily thrown over a few scores in the remaining 3 minutes. However it is an absolute disgrace that a man who should never have been appointed to the game in the first place was allowed to blow the game up early suiting the team he had connections with. A loss was worth the same to Ballyduff as a draw was to them, they were denied a fair chance to gain a win to enter them into the quarter finals and somebody should have to answer for this!
I would never have known that Wadding has relations playing for abbeyside or anything about any ref having connections to any other club for that matter. Its something that needs to be addressed by the co. board, not because of any lack of dignity on the part of wadding who ive no doubt will ref the game as fairly as possible regardless, but the fact if one team loses by a controversial decision it will be the first thing thats thrown at him and creates bad feeling. Hence the post above. Its hassle that the co. board can do without at the moment0 -
I can yeah. I would know people who were very involved in one of the counties he was involved with. A new sponser came on board at the same time he was appointed if you catch my drift.
Furthermore, he prioritised the Championship at all costs in counties like Wicklow. He picked them up in Division 4 and left them there. While they won a couple of games in Championship under him, ultimately it didn't do much for the long term of the county expect raise the profile slightly. His replacement, a Wicklow man, got them promoted to Div. 3 in his first year, and this is the direction from where they can improve in the long run.
They appeared in a Tommy Murphy Cup Final or two under Micko, winning one I think. I dont think under Micko, Wicklow were ever going to expect miracles. They were never going to be up there with Dublin etc vying for Silverware. He did however get Laois and Kildare to win Leinster Finals, if I am not mistaken. If he was appointed in Waterford, I dont think anyone would be expecting him to win a Munster Final, but would be looking to get out of Division four in the league, be there or there abouts in Division three and maybe looking to get out of it. Would we last in Division two would be the big question. We have some good players but many of the best of them are past or near the age of 30 and there is very little coming through. Even Jesus would find it hard to perform miracles to keep us above division two for more than a year.0 -
Could anyone tell me how the county board go about appointing referees for senior championship club games? Referees are often appointed to games and removed for one reason or another with no explanation offered. This has happened a number of times this year in the senior hurling club championship. Tommy Sullivan was due to ref the Ballyduff Abbeyside game but was removed. Michael Wadding (an uncle of an Abbeyside player who played the full game) was then appointed. Abbeyside had objected to the fact that Ballyduff had had Tommy Sullivan referee challenge matches during the year. How did the county board come to the conclusion that taking Tommy Sullivan off the game and appointing a relation of the Abbeyside team would make this a fairer game? Wadding should never have been even considered for this game due to his family ties to Abbeyside! I believe that Dublin had an intercounty referee, was it Joe McQuillan, who refereed 4 of their 6 championship games last year, refereed a number of their training matches and was appointed to this years all ireland semi final without a word of complaint from Mayo. Yet somehow our county board rewarded Abbeyside for complaining about a referee by appointing an uncle of a player of theirs. Seems very strange..
Secondly, Michael Wadding told the players that there was to be 4 minutes additional time played. Ballyduff were a point up and following an Abbeyside equaliser Wadding decided to blow the game up on the resumption, some 45 seconds into the 4 minutes he had told players would be played. This was actually referred to by Tomas McCarthy in the Waterford News and Star this week however I cannot find a link to this on their website. This would appear to show bias on Waddings part towards Abbeyside but also calls into question the procedure around the announcement of added time. If the game had been played in Fraher Field or Walsh Park an announcement would have been made that 4 minutes additional time was to be played. Had Wadding then blown the final whistle after 45 seconds there would have been mayhem! However as the game was played in Cappoquin and no announcement was made as to additional time Wadding was able to take matters into his own hands and blow the final whistle some 3 minutes early before running off the field!
I am not for one minute suggesting this cost Ballyduff Upper their place in the quarter finals. Abbeyside could have just as easily thrown over a few scores in the remaining 3 minutes. However it is an absolute disgrace that a man who should never have been appointed to the game in the first place was allowed to blow the game up early suiting the team he had connections with. A loss was worth the same to Ballyduff as a draw was to them, they were denied a fair chance to gain a win to enter them into the quarter finals and somebody should have to answer for this!
As far as I know Jim Joe Landers is in charge of appointing referees. He picks them, give the list to the county secretary and the Board ratifies the list. There was supposed to be some debate at the convention last year about who appoints the referee. The Club of a referee after he asking them, put in some sort of motion that was beaten or thrown out asking that the system how they were appointed was changed.0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »I agree entirely about the decision to appoint Wadding as referee not being the right call by the County board.
I do have an issue or two with your gripe. For a start, seen as there was no added time announced, and you yourself weren't told by the ref that there was 4 minutes, your complaint is based purely on hearsay. Secondly, while it was blown up early, that could be easily as much of a disadvantage to Abbeyside as it was the difference between them finishing higher in the table and possibly getting a better draw.
Ballyduff had a fair opportunity to win the game, if that was the worst decision made on the day. How much were they behind at half time? Would I be correct in saying it was as much as 12 points? If so, that's what cost them. They should beat Dunhill regardless. And as I said I do agree that Wadding shouldn't have been in charge but I do think that it's probably a bit much to suggest his connections to an Abbeyside player cost Ballyduff in this instance.
When its said at a match that there is for example 4 minutes as mentioned above is to be played, isnt that supposed to be four full minutes or three full minutes or part of a minute. If there is a stoppage in added time, then this time is automatically added onto the what was announced.0 -
Black Suir wrote: »As far as I know Jim Joe Landers is in charge of appointing referees.
nuff said0 -
Black Suir wrote: »They appeared in a Tommy Murphy Cup Final or two under Micko, winning one I think. I dont think under Micko, Wicklow were ever going to expect miracles. They were never going to be up there with Dublin etc vying for Silverware. He did however get Laois and Kildare to win Leinster Finals, if I am not mistaken. If he was appointed in Waterford, I dont think anyone would be expecting him to win a Munster Final, but would be looking to get out of Division four in the league, be there or there abouts in Division three and maybe looking to get out of it. Would we last in Division two would be the big question. We have some good players but many of the best of them are past or near the age of 30 and there is very little coming through. Even Jesus would find it hard to perform miracles to keep us above division two for more than a year.
They won a Tommy Murphy, a competition so prestigous that it was discontinued as none of the counties wanted to play in it.
Laois went well, but they won a couple of underage All Irelands. Kildare went well, but they were full of imports - at least three or four lads were recruited from other counties, including his own son from Kerry.
The big question for us is definitely not could we survive in Div 2, but perhaps could we get promoted out of Div 4 again and survive in Div 3? We need a root and branch review of our structures, and a raft of coaches to come on board across the county to work on youth.
The new county manager whoever he is will only get to work on the finished product, and I think the clubs need to take more responsibility for the quality of players they produce at underage level. If the clubs aren't putting the work in, and the structures aren't in place around them, everyone is wasting their time.0 -
yes ,thats why they say at LEAST 4 minutes ,and there should be at least 4 ,then if there as a injury in that time,then that injury time would be added on ,then people would be saying 4 minutes but he played more ,the word here is LEASTBlack Suir wrote: »When its said at a match that there is for example 4 minutes as mentioned above is to be played, isnt that supposed to be four full minutes or three full minutes or part of a minute. If there is a stoppage in added time, then this time is automatically added onto the what was announced.0 -
Wadding is supposed to be referring the Abbeyside fourmilewater match on Saturday.Could anyone tell me how the county board go about appointing referees for senior championship club games? Referees are often appointed to games and removed for one reason or another with no explanation offered. This has happened a number of times this year in the senior hurling club championship. Tommy Sullivan was due to ref the Ballyduff Abbeyside game but was removed. Michael Wadding (an uncle of an Abbeyside player who played the full game) was then appointed. Abbeyside had objected to the fact that Ballyduff had had Tommy Sullivan referee challenge matches during the year. How did the county board come to the conclusion that taking Tommy Sullivan off the game and appointing a relation of the Abbeyside team would make this a fairer game? Wadding should never have been even considered for this game due to his family ties to Abbeyside! I believe that Dublin had an intercounty referee, was it Joe McQuillan, who refereed 4 of their 6 championship games last year, refereed a number of their training matches and was appointed to this years all ireland semi final without a word of complaint from Mayo. Yet somehow our county board rewarded Abbeyside for complaining about a referee by appointing an uncle of a player of theirs. Seems very strange..
Secondly, Michael Wadding told the players that there was to be 4 minutes additional time played. Ballyduff were a point up and following an Abbeyside equaliser Wadding decided to blow the game up on the resumption, some 45 seconds into the 4 minutes he had told players would be played. This was actually referred to by Tomas McCarthy in the Waterford News and Star this week however I cannot find a link to this on their website. This would appear to show bias on Waddings part towards Abbeyside but also calls into question the procedure around the announcement of added time. If the game had been played in Fraher Field or Walsh Park an announcement would have been made that 4 minutes additional time was to be played. Had Wadding then blown the final whistle after 45 seconds there would have been mayhem! However as the game was played in Cappoquin and no announcement was made as to additional time Wadding was able to take matters into his own hands and blow the final whistle some 3 minutes early before running off the field!
I am not for one minute suggesting this cost Ballyduff Upper their place in the quarter finals. Abbeyside could have just as easily thrown over a few scores in the remaining 3 minutes. However it is an absolute disgrace that a man who should never have been appointed to the game in the first place was allowed to blow the game up early suiting the team he had connections with. A loss was worth the same to Ballyduff as a draw was to them, they were denied a fair chance to gain a win to enter them into the quarter finals and somebody should have to answer for this!0 -
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Mountainlad wrote: »I agree entirely about the decision to appoint Wadding as referee not being the right call by the County board.
I do have an issue or two with your gripe. For a start, seen as there was no added time announced, and you yourself weren't told by the ref that there was 4 minutes, your complaint is based purely on hearsay. Secondly, while it was blown up early, that could be easily as much of a disadvantage to Abbeyside as it was the difference between them finishing higher in the table and possibly getting a better draw.
Ballyduff had a fair opportunity to win the game, if that was the worst decision made on the day. How much were they behind at half time? Would I be correct in saying it was as much as 12 points? If so, that's what cost them. They should beat Dunhill regardless. And as I said I do agree that Wadding shouldn't have been in charge but I do think that it's probably a bit much to suggest his connections to an Abbeyside player cost Ballyduff in this instance.
Well given that I was on the sideline and in the dressing room with the Ballyduff team I'd be thinking that the players didn't just come up with 4 minutes out of thin air!! Also, there were a number of stoppages and substitutions in the game. And when was the last time you were at a GAA match where they announce stoppage time when for the end of the second half it was announced that there would be at least 2 minutes additional time? There is very rarely if ever less than 2 mins at the end of the second half due to stoppages, substitutions and time wasting. And that is a minimum.. the referee is to play at least that!
Not sure what the scoreline at half time has to do with the defeat Mountainlad?? The issue is the fact that the game was there to be won, by either side (as I referred to earlier) and it was cut short. Shouldnt have happened! It just so happens that the man who cut it short shouldn't have been appointed to referee the game in the first place. I never said Ballyduff would have won it. Abbeyside could have scored 5 points in that time, Ballyduff could have either. Ballyduff were eliminated as a result and Abbeyside progress.
If the draw had been enough for Ballyduff to progress, and it was Ballyduff had asked for a change of referee and a relation of a Ballyduff player had refereed the game and blown it up early with the game in the melting pot; you mean to tell me Abbeyside wouldn't be kicking up a **** storm about it???0 -
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Black Suir wrote: »As far as I know Jim Joe Landers is in charge of appointing referees. He picks them, give the list to the county secretary and the Board ratifies the list. There was supposed to be some debate at the convention last year about who appoints the referee. The Club of a referee after he asking them, put in some sort of motion that was beaten or thrown out asking that the system how they were appointed was changed.
They really would want to look at changing the system. There has to be a better way of doing it that one man appointing the referees! I doubt the County Board give it a second thought really. Anyone know the process for requesting a change of referee? Is it just a case of have a word with Jim Joe??
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After lasts night round of minor championship can anyone figure out the standings in each division, would really appreciate any insight in to this, Thanks.0
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If ballyduff were good enough they would have won the game end of story no point in blaming the ref he gave ballyduff two penalties one for the most blatant dive to be seen on a Gaa pitch .. He also gave both sided plenty frees not one controversial decision really all game bar the penalty Which ballyduff got ... So rather than say Michael wadding favoured abbeyside which is total and utter crap take the medicine ye weren't good enough one game didn't stop ye qualifying 5 games did ...
All this talk about Michael wadding I'd very slanderous as well .. He's and inter county referee and a good one at that
he is an absolutely cat ref and having played many games under him over last few years a lot of the time you'd love to stick that whistle up his ho*e.. Pings you for frees early doors and lets go then the most blatant decisions...
My theory is he runs himself ragged in the first 20 mins and his bet tired for rest of the game..0 -
he is an absolutely cat ref and having played many games under him over last few years a lot of the time you'd love to stick that whistle up his ho*e.. Pings you for frees early doors and lets go then the most blatant decisions...
My theory is he runs himself ragged in the first 20 mins and his bet tired for rest of the game..
I think he is definitely one of the better refs in Waterford, and has aquitted himself fairly well at inter-county level, most notably how he reffed the 2010 all-ireland final. I don't think this should become a free for all on referees, so all I'm going to say is there are far worse referees you good have than him. By and large, I think the standard of refereeing is pretty good in Waterford all things considered.0 -
If ballyduff were good enough they would have won the game end of story no point in blaming the ref he gave ballyduff two penalties one for the most blatant dive to be seen on a Gaa pitch .. He also gave both sided plenty frees not one controversial decision really all game bar the penalty Which ballyduff got ... So rather than say Michael wadding favoured abbeyside which is total and utter crap take the medicine ye weren't good enough one game didn't stop ye qualifying 5 games did ...
All this talk about Michael wadding I'd very slanderous as well .. He's and inter county referee and a good one at thatMountainlad wrote: »I agree entirely about the decision to appoint Wadding as referee not being the right call by the County board.
I do have an issue or two with your gripe. For a start, seen as there was no added time announced, and you yourself weren't told by the ref that there was 4 minutes, your complaint is based purely on hearsay. Secondly, while it was blown up early, that could be easily as much of a disadvantage to Abbeyside as it was the difference between them finishing higher in the table and possibly getting a better draw.
Ballyduff had a fair opportunity to win the game, if that was the worst decision made on the day. How much were they behind at half time? Would I be correct in saying it was as much as 12 points? If so, that's what cost them. They should beat Dunhill regardless. And as I said I do agree that Wadding shouldn't have been in charge but I do think that it's probably a bit much to suggest his connections to an Abbeyside player cost Ballyduff in this instance.
Well given that I was on the sideline and in the dressing room with the Ballyduff team I'd be thinking that the players didn't just come up with 4 minutes out of thin air!! Also, there were a number of stoppages and substitutions in the game. And when was the last time you were at a GAA match where they announce stoppage time when for the end of the second half it was announced that there would be at least 2 minutes additional time? There is very rarely if ever less than 2 mins at the end of the second half due to stoppages, substitutions and time wasting. And that is a minimum.. the referee is to play at least that!
Not sure what the scoreline at half time has to do with the defeat Mountainlad?? The issue is the fact that the game was there to be won, by either side (as I referred to earlier) and it was cut short. Shouldnt have happened! It just so happens that the man who cut it short shouldn't have been appointed to referee the game in the first place. I never said Ballyduff would have won it. Abbeyside could have scored 5 points in that time, Ballyduff could have either. Ballyduff were eliminated as a result and Abbeyside progress.
If the draw had been enough for Ballyduff to progress, and it was Ballyduff had asked for a change of referee and a relation of a Ballyduff player had refereed the game and blown it up early with the game in the melting pot; you mean to tell me Abbeyside wouldn't be kicking up a **** storm about it???
So we shouldn't question his appointment to a game where he had a family member playing because Ballyduff lost games earlier in the year? What are you on about at all??? I clearly stated Abbeyside could easily have won the game in the remaining time, never said that cost Ballyduff the game! They were denied the opportunity to try and win the game as it was blown up early in rather strange circumstances! Surely even you can comprehend that?? I never mentioned frees during the game or that sort, only questioned his time keeping and his appointment to the game!0 -
So we shouldn't question his appointment to a game where he had a family member playing because Ballyduff lost games earlier in the year? What are you on about at all??? I clearly stated Abbeyside could easily have won the game in the remaining time, never said that cost Ballyduff the game! They were denied the opportunity to try and win the game as it was blown up early in rather strange circumstances! Surely even you can comprehend that?? I never mentioned frees during the game or that sort, only questioned his time keeping and his appointment to the game!
They were not denied the opportunity to try and win the game. A game is supposed to 60 minutes long, you shouldn't be relying on there being 4 minutes of added time to win a game. You essentially believe this decision cost Ballyduff the game, but that's not neccesarily the case.
You made the point that Abbeyside would be up in arms if it was the other way around, and I'm sure they would be. Let them be, doesn't mean they would be right.
You are right in so far as it is important that the County Board should try and ensure this does not happen again. The main reason for that would be to prevent reactions like yours from members/fans of the teams that are in a sense legitamitely entitled to question tthe fairness of the appointment, but then abuse that entitlement to make fairly dubious claims they were denied an equal opportunity to win the game.
You've made your point about the ref and it's valid, all your doing now is detracting from it with statements smeared in bias.0 -
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So we shouldn't question his appointment to a game where he had a family member playing because Ballyduff lost games earlier in the year? What are you on about at all??? I clearly stated Abbeyside could easily have won the game in the remaining time, never said that cost Ballyduff the game! They were denied the opportunity to try and win the game as it was blown up early in rather strange circumstances! Surely even you can comprehend that?? I never mentioned frees during the game or that sort, only questioned his time keeping and his appointment to the game!
swallow your sour grapes. ye werent done by a corrupt ref as much as your trying to make the argument that ye were. the fact is ye werent good enough over 60 mins, or over the course of the group stages for that matter so get over it and prepare for a deserved relegation battle which should be more in your priorities now0 -
Well given that I was on the sideline and in the dressing room with the Ballyduff team I'd be thinking that the players didn't just come up with 4 minutes out of thin air!! Also, there were a number of stoppages and substitutions in the game. And when was the last time you were at a GAA match where they announce stoppage time when for the end of the second half it was announced that there would be at least 2 minutes additional time? There is very rarely if ever less than 2 mins at the end of the second half due to stoppages, substitutions and time wasting. And that is a minimum.. the referee is to play at least that!
Not sure what the scoreline at half time has to do with the defeat Mountainlad?? The issue is the fact that the game was there to be won, by either side (as I referred to earlier) and it was cut short. Shouldnt have happened! It just so happens that the man who cut it short shouldn't have been appointed to referee the game in the first place. I never said Ballyduff would have won it. Abbeyside could have scored 5 points in that time, Ballyduff could have either. Ballyduff were eliminated as a result and Abbeyside progress.
If the draw had been enough for Ballyduff to progress, and it was Ballyduff had asked for a change of referee and a relation of a Ballyduff player had refereed the game and blown it up early with the game in the melting pot; you mean to tell me Abbeyside wouldn't be kicking up a **** storm about it???
I was not aware that the clock is stopped in hurling and football for a sub to be sent on, not like in other sports like soccer. If it was to happen in the G.A.A. that the 30 seconds or what ever is added per sub it could mean that in a lot of games that there would be 5 minutes added in the second half. (5 subs X 2 teams X 30 seconds per sub). As far as i am aware the only time the clock is stopped for a sub to go on is when the player coming off takes forever to leave the field in an effort to kill time.0 -
They won a Tommy Murphy, a competition so prestigous that it was discontinued as none of the counties wanted to play in it.
Laois went well, but they won a couple of underage All Irelands. Kildare went well, but they were full of imports - at least three or four lads were recruited from other counties, including his own son from Kerry.
The big question for us is definitely not could we survive in Div 2, but perhaps could we get promoted out of Div 4 again and survive in Div 3? We need a root and branch review of our structures, and a raft of coaches to come on board across the county to work on youth.
The new county manager whoever he is will only get to work on the finished product, and I think the clubs need to take more responsibility for the quality of players they produce at underage level. If the clubs aren't putting the work in, and the structures aren't in place around them, everyone is wasting their time.
One that i am sure that most would bring back now if it was run correctly. It got the ball rolling football wise in Tipperary. They have come on since they appeared in the final.0 -
Mountainlad wrote: »County Board just doesn't care about people between 18-21 that aren't stars I guess.
I agree, it's very poor treatment and is it any wonder so many players lose interest and go play soccer or rugby or just do something else. With more and more players leaving through emigration and little incentive for many to stay with their clubs when they are really living off scraps to try and sustain it, I feel it's an issue that will need to be addressed pretty soon or else we'll have more and more of those adult teams that combine underage not being able to field teams.
Just to pick up on something I mentioned a few weeks ago, a further example of the disregard for the u21 championships has been shown by the County board this week in terms of the fixture scheduling.
The opportunity was available to them to play off the West Finals on the weekend of the 15th of September. Instead, they have decided to have one Senior quarter final involving two teams competing in the A and B finals (Abbeyside and Fourmilewater respectively) this weekend have the other two teams (Ballyduff Upper and Lismore) next weekend.
I understand that the reasoning behind this is so that dual clubs can get rest, but to be honest if they had all the quarter finals this weekend then the Dual clubs (Fourmilewater/The Nire and Abbeyside/Ballinacourty) would have a week off before the football quarter finals anyway. Sure, it would mean the three teams to emerge victorius next weekend would be waiting three weeks to play a semi final, but to be fair Abbeyside and Fourmilewater are actually at a disadvantage having played 3 weeks before a semi and having to play football in between.
Because of this decision, it's quite likely that the Western Finals may not get played until the end of October (I'd be suprised if we them played before that as one of the Nire and Ballinacourty will surely make the football final, and Lismore, Abbeyside and Fourmile could make a final too in the hurling) which just isn't good enough. I know the County Final almost certainly won't be till November for the teams involved because there was some scheduling trouble in the East, but it just isn't really fair.
Lads who've been training away and building towards this game since the 6th of August may now be waiting over 2 months for the next game. Training will be curtailed as many will find it diffcult to make the journeys back from colleges as the new terms begin and basically the whole thing falls out of kilter. No way to reward young players for commitment and effort.
It's further sign that many in the GAA have their heads in the clouds. The example is often raised about players on adult teams having their games postponed because of inter-county affairs, and that they can never be sure when they're playing which makes it difficult to plan their lives. In soccer, you've a calendar and it's adhered to, and that's that. But the thing is, the GAA seem to think there are two other sports, Soccer and Rugby. There's not. And there's plenty of other things you could do besides. I don't want to seem like a total moaner but I really have to say there are times when you just look at it and say why am I wasting my time with this?
Pity, because it was far improved on last year up to now, as the games were played in the summer in great conditions and were moving fairly well. These things, they never last it seems.0 -
Western Intermediate Hurling Semi-Finals,
Sat. 8th Sept @ Fraher Field.
Rinn Ua gCuanach V Clashmore @ 2pm
Ardmore V Cappoquinn @ 3:30pm
Should be two crackers. No sign of last years champions Tourin or of Stradbally, Surprising!0 -
Tell me where I said we were done out of it?deisebhoy17 wrote: »So we shouldn't question his appointment to a game where he had a family member playing because Ballyduff lost games earlier in the year? What are you on about at all??? I clearly stated Abbeyside could easily have won the game in the remaining time, never said that cost Ballyduff the game! They were denied the opportunity to try and win the game as it was blown up early in rather strange circumstances! Surely even you can comprehend that?? I never mentioned frees during the game or that sort, only questioned his time keeping and his appointment to the game!
swallow your sour grapes. ye werent done by a corrupt ref as much as your trying to make the argument that ye were. the fact is ye werent good enough over 60 mins, or over the course of the group stages for that matter so get over it and prepare for a deserved relegation battle which should be more in your priorities now0 -
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I don't think the clock is stopped as such either Tom, although it would probably help to an extent. But the ref clearly said there were to be 4 mins added time and didnt play even 1 full minute of the 4.. Not up to me to determine how he reached that figure but he informed players there were to be 4 minutes and then played 45 seconds only. Hardly acceptable?Well given that I was on the sideline and in the dressing room with the Ballyduff team I'd be thinking that the players didn't just come up with 4 minutes out of thin air!! Also, there were a number of stoppages and substitutions in the game. And when was the last time you were at a GAA match where they announce stoppage time when for the end of the second half it was announced that there would be at least 2 minutes additional time? There is very rarely if ever less than 2 mins at the end of the second half due to stoppages, substitutions and time wasting. And that is a minimum.. the referee is to play at least that!
Not sure what the scoreline at half time has to do with the defeat Mountainlad?? The issue is the fact that the game was there to be won, by either side (as I referred to earlier) and it was cut short. Shouldnt have happened! It just so happens that the man who cut it short shouldn't have been appointed to referee the game in the first place. I never said Ballyduff would have won it. Abbeyside could have scored 5 points in that time, Ballyduff could have either. Ballyduff were eliminated as a result and Abbeyside progress.
If the draw had been enough for Ballyduff to progress, and it was Ballyduff had asked for a change of referee and a relation of a Ballyduff player had refereed the game and blown it up early with the game in the melting pot; you mean to tell me Abbeyside wouldn't be kicking up a **** storm about it???
I was not aware that the clock is stopped in hurling and football for a sub to be sent on, not like in other sports like soccer. If it was to happen in the G.A.A. that the 30 seconds or what ever is added per sub it could mean that in a lot of games that there would be 5 minutes added in the second half. (5 subs X 2 teams X 30 seconds per sub). As far as i am aware the only time the clock is stopped for a sub to go on is when the player coming off takes forever to leave the field in an effort to kill time.0 -
I dont know where he got the figure from either but i can gaurantee you he said it! You are correct he didnt allow players to kill the game by going down but he didnt play the 4 mins he had said he would! Whats that old saying about refs never changing their minds? Well he did on this occassion and it wouldnt have been possible if the game was played in fraher or walsh park! Abbeyside only lost one game, cant argue with them going through. Find it hard to believe how some people (not just your good self) are overlooking the issue to nit pick at posts!So we shouldn't question his appointment to a game where he had a family member playing because Ballyduff lost games earlier in the year? What are you on about at all??? I clearly stated Abbeyside could easily have won the game in the remaining time, never said that cost Ballyduff the game! They were denied the opportunity to try and win the game as it was blown up early in rather strange circumstances! Surely even you can comprehend that?? I never mentioned frees during the game or that sort, only questioned his time keeping and his appointment to the game!
stop crying ye didnt qualify end of story the way your carrying on youd swear ye were done out of it .. i find it hard to belive a ref said there was four minutes added time when quiet clearly everytime a player went down injured during the 2nd half and i can count 3 occasions were told to get back up they wudnt be recieving treatment becuase it was clear they were trying to kill the game so i dunno where he wud have pulled four minites out of.. seems like all these sour grapes are coming from the ballyduff camp .. pathetic really0 -
Ask a neutral what was added, tomas mccarthy wrote about it in a local paper even! Say for your sake, there was only 1 min added, he still didnt play that did he? And when was the last time you saw less than a minute added at the end of a game eh??????I dont know where he got the figure from either but i can gaurantee you he said it! You are correct he didnt allow players to kill the game by going down but he didnt play the 4 mins he had said he would! Whats that old saying about refs never changing their minds? Well he did on this occassion and it wouldnt have been possible if the game was played in fraher or walsh park! Abbeyside only lost one game, cant argue with them going through. Find it hard to believe how some people (not just your good self) are overlooking the issue to nit pick at posts!
look the fact is you said it yourself only the ballyduff players said the ref said 4 mins added time not one abbeyside player has said this ..and another thing u also agreed that players werent aloud kill the game with injuries so why wud there be 4 mins added time in all my time watching hurling and football ive rarely seen 4 mins injury time in games where there has been numerous stoppages it wud want to be a hefty stoppage to have 4 mins added ? .. im fairly sure ballyduff only made 1 change 2nd half and abbeyside made a double change 2nd half they hardly add up to 4 mins is there any chance something might be lost in translation somehwere ..
in other words why wud we take ballyduff players word for it just after being knocked out of championship0 -
Ask a neutral what was added, tomas mccarthy wrote about it in a local paper even! Say for your sake, there was only 1 min added, he still didnt play that did he? And when was the last time you saw less than a minute added at the end of a game eh??????
Serious case of sour grapes, get over it lad you're making Ballyduff look like bad losers0 -
How is it sour grapes? I questioned his appointment and i questioned why he didnt play the added time he said he'd play?? Said numerous times abbeyside could have gone on to win the game in the added time! Sour grapes i think not!Ask a neutral what was added, tomas mccarthy wrote about it in a local paper even! Say for your sake, there was only 1 min added, he still didnt play that did he? And when was the last time you saw less than a minute added at the end of a game eh??????
Serious case of sour grapes, get over it lad you're making Ballyduff look like bad losers0 -
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