Liverpool FC Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12 August

K-9

K-9 wrote: »

Alonso didn't get a lot of assists or goals.

Adam's role is to supply wingers and Carroll, he wont get a lot of assists.

Some people confuse fantasy football and real football.

K-9

rarnes1 wrote: »

Some people confuse fantasy football and real football.

This is why stats get derided. If people misuse them they are no use.

The important stats for Adam are his passing first and foremost and even then you have to use a bit of cop on. He wont have the success rate of Lucas or Henderson and that should be expected.

K-9

amiable wrote: »

JamieDalton82Jamie Dalton

Seen that. It's a player Wenger should splash out on.

K-9

Excellent piece on Hillsborough and why it matters, it's more relevant today than it ever was:

Two decades on from Hillsborough and Liverpool is still in the dark | Paul Hayward | Football | The Observer

Slide out of a taxi at Anfield and a figure will hand you a "Don't buy the Sun" leaflet while a familiar throng chats outside the Hillsborough Justice Campaign shop on Walton Breck Road. The disaster that cost 96 lives 22 years ago is so integral to the experience of attending a Liverpool match that the quest for the truth is part of the identity of the club.


The campaign was always there and always will be, or so it feels, as the chip shops do their lively trade and fans gather at the Hillsborough memorial or examine Bill Shankly's statue ("He made the people happy").

But the people can't be happy – not fully – until the system extends to the families of the dead the simple right to see all of the documents relating to events in Sheffield on 15 April 1989, when Steven Gerrard's 10-year-old cousin, Jon-Paul Gilhooley, was the youngest of the 96 who went to a football match and never came back.


There is no let-up in the antipathy to the Sun over its coverage of the tragedy. Kelvin MacKenzie, the paper's editor at the time, was on Newsnight recently, pontificating about rioters. His inability to distinguish 22 years ago between a disaster and a so-called outbreak of criminality as people lay dying on the Hillsborough pitch would, in a more discerning society, disqualify him from comment on the recent disorder across Britain. But the current Sun continues to carry the stigma of those times on Merseyside, just as the families persist with their demand for full disclosure.


The story so far is that an e-petition calling for previously hidden documents on Hillsborough to be released raced past 50,000 signatures this week and looks sure to acquire the 100,000 names needed to force the House of Commons backbench business committee to consider granting it time for debate.


On Wednesday, the Cabinet Office said it would appeal against a ruling by Christopher Graham, the Information Commissioner, who had approved a freedom of information request from the BBC to see the papers. The e-petition took off after Kenny Dalglish, the Liverpool manager, tweeted: "Think it is very important that we support this." Since that moment, Joey Barton has interrupted his flow of Friedrich Nietzsche quotations to urge his 428,000 followers to sign online.


The Commissioner argued that it would assist public understanding of the tragedy for the concealed documents to be released. But, in a statement, the government said: "The Cabinet Office absolutely agrees with the principle of providing information to families about the Hillsborough stadium disaster, but we believe it is important any release of information should be managed through the panel's processes and in line with their terms of reference."
The panel referred to is the independent body set up by the previous Labour government to examine the archive and decide on publication. But the panel was not in existence in 2009 when the request for access was first made. The BBC says the records include "reports presented to Margaret Thatcher [the then prime minister], correspondence between her office and that of the home secretary, Douglas Hurd, and minutes of meetings she attended."


For the neutral to find a position on this procedural wrangling, one has only to imagine how it must feel for the mother or father of a victim to be told, 22 years after the event, that they are not entitled to see words on pieces of paper that might release them from the torment of not knowing the full story of the defining day of their lives.


Across Merseyside, people wake and go back to sleep with a sense of injustice that stems partly from the original coroner's inquest, which imposed a cut-off for the examination of evidence at 3.15pm, a source of anger, still, to those who believe the role of the emergency services and the full timescale of death should have been part of Dr Stefan Popper's report.


In March, the Hillsborough panel said they would look at previously concealed documents. But you can see why the families object to the idea that a panel must decide what they can and cannot see. The system has piled years and years of additional needless cruelty on the Hillsborough families. The British obsession with secrecy and protection for those in power has stretched beyond all humane grounds the process of finding out, once and for all, what happened (and who was responsible) at an FA Cup semi-final in Sheffield more than two decades ago.


To most of us, the obvious truth is that this pain and indignation will hang over Liverpool until the books are laid out. This shame-inducing suppression of evidence serves no moral purpose. Nor can the campaign be fobbed off, as every politician must know by now. Its spirit pervades every aspect of Liverpool football club, to the point where Rafa Benítez's last act as manager was to donate £96,000 to the campaign.


The first e-petition to force a parliamentary debate called for convicted rioters to be deprived of state benefits. The state moves fast when it wants to punish and slowly when people want the truth.

Einhard

I'm a Liverpool supporter,but people here know far more about football than I ever will, so I'm generally content to sit back and lurk and inform myself through the posts here. I can never criticise people about their football knowledge, but I would caution against labelling people as a result of their views. The fact that someone disagrees with you doesn't make that person a troll. I've always liked Liverpool because there's always been an opnenness of spirit amongst the fans, and if people with contrary opinions are censored, we#ll lose that about the club.

As for the match today- great result, but we're not exact;y inspiring fear through our general play.

Jazzy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnOIvn8hMS4

Jazzy

K-9 wrote: »

Alonso didn't get a lot of assists or goals.

Adam's role is to supply wingers and Carroll, he wont get a lot of assists.

6 thanks for something that obvious.
i dont mean to belittle your point or yourself but ya know, are ppl that dumb.

jebidiah

When asked if Suarez had it in him to go on and become one of the great Liverpool goal scorers Dalglish said

"He's got it in him to be whatever he wants to be, and he's a smashing fellow."

Pure class

NukaCola

Jazzy wrote: »

6 thanks for something that obvious.
i dont mean to belittle your point or yourself but ya know, are ppl that dumb.

I dont want to belittle you Jazzy but......ya....some ppl are.......get the derp of the day award going again....the competition is fierce!

barone

the way some talk on here about young players, you would swer that they will never become better then they are at present,never bed in and become settled at a club, its bound to play a huge part in everyday life for players, feeling comfortable and wanted at a club, not alone worthy to be there.

jordan h,adam,carroll,flano,kelly,suarez... all of these players will improve imo.

no player comes into a team at a young age and dosent make mistakes (lucas for example)
its strength of character and willingness to learn and get on with things that makes them better players, not thinking 'ive made it now,yeeees,ill sit back and enjoy it'

we have some very promising players in our set up now, i for one am delighted,huge improvement in morale of the club and the fans.

we are moving steadily in the right direction,keep the faith,especially in new signings, i made a comment about carroll yesterday in anger, said he needed a kick in the hole..

bit harsh from me, he did his best, just looks unfit and mouthy, needs to shut up and try harder imo.

would have taken 4 points from opening 2 games prior to season start so im happy.

ynwa_17

Aquilani has been reported as saying he is close to signing for AC Milan.

mada999

paulieeye wrote: »

really?? thought kuyt had a shocker...made so many mistakes

aye didnt think Kuyt, Adam and Henderson had great games tbh... would like to see Meireles start instead of Henderson in the next game.... Adam doesn't track back which i don't like....

mike65

ynwa_17 wrote: »

Aquilani has been reported as saying he is close to signing for AC Milan.

Yeah right!

Bowlardo

mada999 wrote: »

Adam doesn't track back which i don't like....

Totally agree
Adam is a fat and lazy . he does nothing in open play. he is a poser and a mé feiner. he has two speeds slow and so slower.

Very impressed with Enrique finall have a solid decent lef tback who has a bit of football in him.

Henderson is a bit light but it makes a great difference having someone on the right who can control the ball,pass the ball and retain posession (unlike kuyt moust go back wards or lose ball as it bounces off his shins)

Very excited about downing once he is stay wide on the left....see know point in moving him on the right which he seems to to do in the second half of matches.

mike65

Downing played plenty on the right for Villa last season and against Sunderland showed why it can work cutting inside with the ball "protected" on the wrong side for the opposing defenders. ie left backs facing left sided player so ball is on the right side (inside). Harder to defend

Leiva

Bowlardo wrote: »

Totally agree
Adam is a fat and lazy . he does nothing in open play. he is a poser and a mé feiner. he has two speeds slow and so slower.

Very impressed with Enrique finall have a solid decent lef tback who has a bit of football in him.

Henderson is a bit light but it makes a great difference having someone on the right who can control the ball,pass the ball and retain posession (unlike kuyt moust go back wards or lose ball as it bounces off his shins)

Very excited about downing once he is stay wide on the left....see know point in moving him on the right which he seems to to do in the second half of matches.

OK there is having a difference of opinion and then there is having this ^^^^

A little OTT no ?

Leiva

mike65 wrote: »

Downing played plenty on the right for Villa last season and against Sunderland showed why it can work cutting inside with the ball "protected" on the wrong side for the opposing defenders. ie left backs facing left sided player so ball is on the right side (inside). Harder to defend

He actually played more on the right than the left for Villa .

He is really versatile like that which is a major plus.

If he is having no luck on one side then he can be easily switched to disturb a defense formation on the other .

Gives an extra dimension to any formation .

Bowlardo

mixednuts wrote: »

OK there is having a difference of opinion and then there is having this ^^^^

A little OTT no ?

which part is OTT ? who am i having a difference of opinion with? the person i quote i agree with completely....and may have added a few more points to the discussion

amiable

Charlie Adam is not fat. He spent a large chunk of the summer doing extra training with a pro boxer to get him in as good shape as possible.

To me you just seem to have a negative opinion on him and are just spurting out the usual rubbish.

I think Charlie Adam had a good second half yesterday.
IMO Liverpool won the game because we bossed the Arsenal midfield.
Yet apparently Adam, Henderson and Kuyt had a bad game?

djPSB

K-9 wrote: »

Alonso didn't get a lot of assists or goals.

Adam's role is to supply wingers and Carroll, he wont get a lot of assists.

I dont think we will get away with both Adam and Lucas in central midfield if neither are going to contributing with assists. Thats okay for teams with top class wingers. Having Adam playing deep and spraying passes out to Downing and Kuyt on the wings, could be limited enough IMO. Downing is good, but there's only so many assists he can get in one season. Its okay for Carrick with the Mancs, he's spraying passes out to Valencia/Nani/Young who are more of a direct threat.

And there's no point in Adam ballooning aerial balls up to Carroll and expecting him to do wonders without any help form the midfielders picking up knock downs etc.

When Alonso was playing in that role, we had Gerrard playing of Torres, which worked magically. They worked off each other perfectly. It just looks like as if Carroll is being left very isolated at times in the first two games.

NukaCola

Bowlardo wrote: »

Totally agree
Adam is a fat and lazy . he does nothing in open play. he is a poser and a mé feiner. he has two speeds slow and so slower.

Stopped reading after that.....
Shocking stuff

Leiva

Bowlardo wrote: »

which part is OTT ?

I
I
I
V

Bowlardo wrote: »

Adam is a fat and lazy . he does nothing in open play. he is a poser and a mé feiner. he has two speeds slow

(unlike kuyt moust go back wards or lose ball as it bounces off his shins)

NukaCola

djPSB wrote: »

I dont think we will get away with both Adam and Lucas in central midfield if neither are going to contributing with assists. Thats okay for teams with top class wingers. Having Adam playing deep and spraying passes out to Downing and Kuyt on the wings, could be limited enough IMO. Downing is good, but there's only so many assists he can get in one season. Its okay for Carrick with the Mancs, he's spraying passes out to Valencia/Nani/Young who are more of a direct threat.

And there's no point in Adam ballooning aerial balls up to Carroll and expecting him to do wonders without any help form the midfielders picking up knock downs etc.

When Alonso was playing in that role, we had Gerrard playing of Torres, which worked magically. They worked off each other perfectly. It just looks like as if Carroll is being left very isolated at times in the first two games.

We'll have Suarez off Carroll, just as good IMO Carroll hasn't been getting the proper service......give it time though, we are looking very solid IMO

NukaCola

Bowlardo wrote: »

which part is OTT ?

Really!?? Wow........ :eek:

NukaCola

barone wrote: »

the way some talk on here about young players, you would swer that they will never become better then they are at present,never bed in and become settled at a club, its bound to play a huge part in everyday life for players, feeling comfortable and wanted at a club, not alone worthy to be there.

jordan h,adam,carroll,flano,kelly,suarez... all of these players will improve imo.

no player comes into a team at a young age and dosent make mistakes (lucas for example)
its strength of character and willingness to learn and get on with things that makes them better players, not thinking 'ive made it now,yeeees,ill sit back and enjoy it'

we have some very promising players in our set up now, i for one am delighted,huge improvement in morale of the club and the fans.

we are moving steadily in the right direction,keep the faith,especially in new signings, i made a comment about carroll yesterday in anger, said he needed a kick in the hole..

bit harsh from me, he did his best, just looks unfit and mouthy, needs to shut up and try harder imo.

would have taken 4 points from opening 2 games prior to season start so im happy.

The problem most people have is if a young player isn't as good as the Rooneys and Messi's of this world were at a younger age they think they will never be any good.........

Turtyturd

amiable wrote: »

Charlie Adam is not fat. He spent a large chunk of the summer doing extra training with a pro boxer to get him in as good shape as possible.

To me you just seem to have a negative opinion on him and are just spurting out the usual rubbish.

I think Charlie Adam had a good second half yesterday.
IMO Liverpool won the game because we bossed the Arsenal midfield.
Yet apparently Adam, Henderson and Kuyt had a bad game?

I watched the second half again last night and I don't think Henderson was as bad as he appeared the first time around. I think it was more a case of the mistakes he made being stupid mistakes, therefore standing out more. Off hand I can think of one instance where he had to ball in plenty of space and over ran it into an Arsenal player losing possession, and another where instead of realising he had time to try take the ball down he rushed a pass to Carroll which ran out for a throw. With time he will settle in a bit but I think Meireles should be in ahead of him for now.

Carroll on the other hand has to go. :pac:

murpho999

Jaysis lads, if you were to read the posts here from the last 24 hours you'd swear we had lost the game yesterday.

We've just beaten Arsenal away for the first time in 11 years and 'experts' are on here berating Adam,who is now fat and Henderson etc.

Can people stop judging them after 2 games and only comment on negative aspects of a game and ignore the positives!
Of course discussion is a good thing but some of the stuff here is ludicrous.

I'm still delighted at yesterday's victory and it will do wonders for the confidence in future games and I'm a lot happier then I was this time 12 months ago.

Bowlardo

amiable wrote: »

Charlie Adam is not fat?

no he is just big boned.

amiable wrote: »

He spent a large chunk of the summer doing extra training with a pro boxer to get him in as good shape as possible.
I think Charlie Adam had a good second half yesterday.

Why was he nowhere to be seen in the second half of the sunderland match? he was breathing out of his arse for the second half. Felt sorry for lucas as he had to do everything.
regarding yesterday it was a second string arsenal team yesterday which had Nasri who couldnt' give a hoot. Frimpong is just a joke . theo and arshavin are light weight. and adam started to make a differnece when it was against 10 men

amiable wrote: »

To me you just seem to have a negative opinion on him and are just spurting out the usual rubbish.

you are totally right but that is because i see things in his game that could be detrimental too us in the long run. I don't know what way he can be accomodated in to the team if we had a full squad. is he on the pitch purely for his free kicks and corners? i think meireles shoudl be starting before him especially after the season he had last year

murpho999

Bowlardo wrote: »

no he is just big boned.

Here is 'Fat Charlie'.

djPSB

David Hoilett from Blackburn wouldn't be a bad option as a back up striker if Ngog leaves..

Leiva

Bowlardo wrote: »

Why was he nowhere to be seen in the second half of the sunderland

It was actually a great piece of managment by Bruce .
He had Cattermole man mark Adam from around 55mins on .

I watched it from the KOP and Adam couldn't do shiite without Cattermole been tight , stuff you dont see from the TV camera .

Oh yea he was also such a me feiner for putting the ball at the front post for Suarez to score in the same game :rolleyes:

Turtyturd

djPSB wrote: »

David Hoilett from Blackburn wouldn't be a bad option as a back up striker if Ngog leaves..

That Keane fella playing for LA Galaxy doesn't look bad, might not cut it in the premiership though.

Bowlardo

murpho999 wrote: »

Here is 'Fat Charlie'.

I stand corrected.

I'll get my coat!

rossie1977

what do people think henderson offers liverpool that the likes of aquaman and raul don't?? i saw alot of this kid last year and he has no pace, not a great passer, little skill (certainly nowhere near the level of Aquilani), he obviously wasn't bought for his driving runs and goals from midfield or his deadball accuracy either

djPSB

murpho999 wrote: »

Here is 'Fat Charlie'.

He's breathing in!

Leiva

rossie1977 wrote: »

what do people think henderson offers liverpool that the likes of aquaman and raul don't?? i saw alot of this kid last year and he has no pace, not a great passer, little skill (certainly nowhere near the level of Aquilani), he obviously wasn't bought for his driving runs and goals from midfield or his deadball accuracy either

Personally I don't see the Gerrard replacement role .

I see him been more a Scott Parker .

Who knows but in Kenny I trust .

Don't forget ; Barnes , Rush , Aldo etc

djPSB

mixednuts wrote: »

Personally I don't see the Gerrard replacement role .

I see him been more a Scott Parker .

Who knows but in Kenny I trust .

Don't forget ; Barnes , Rush , Aldo etc

He reminds me more of a Frank Lampard than Stevie G..

murpho999

Bowlardo wrote: »

I stand corrected.

I'll get my coat!

That would be nice as I don't like being forced to use my ignore button.

Anyone

Nice win yesterday. Fair enough, not the strongest Arsenal team ever, but first time in 11 years(I think) we beat Arsenal at home and you can only beat what's put out against you.

Was nice to see our play change once the subs came in, something we didn't do against Sunderland last week I felt. Our left side looks feckin awesome now with Downing and Enrique.

Mad reading this thread at times, I'm pretty convinced there are some who are only happy when they bitchin!

Leiva

djPSB wrote: »

He reminds me more of a Frank Lampard than Stevie G..

Really?

IMO he has a quick touch and eye like Parker .

Fat Frank likes to hover around 20yards for smash .

Gerrard is just a beast .

Early days who knows .

rossie1977

rossie1977 wrote: »

what do people think henderson offers liverpool that the likes of aquaman and raul don't?? i saw alot of this kid last year and he has no pace, not a great passer, little skill (certainly nowhere near the level of Aquilani), he obviously wasn't bought for his driving runs and goals from midfield or his deadball accuracy either

No pace
Poor passer
Little skill
Doesn't make runs
Doesn't score.

Obviously Kenny's been had.

rossie1977

mixednuts wrote: »

Personally I don't see the Gerrard replacement role .

I see him been more a Scott Parker .

Who knows but in Kenny I trust .

Don't forget ; Barnes , Rush , Aldo etc

i don't think he was a kenny signing, he smells of comolli to me, barnes, aldo were superb with oxford and watford before signing with liverpool, spearing completely outshined henderson in the game up at the stadium of light last season

Bowlardo

mixednuts wrote: »

It was actually a great piece of managment by Bruce .
He had Cattermole man mark Adam from around 55mins on .
I watched it from the KOP and Adam couldn't do shiite without Cattermole been tight , stuff you dont see from the TV camera

I think this points out the point I was trying to make originally.obviously I had too much piss and vinegar in my originally posts and was digressing from the point i was trying to make. That if the oppossing manager does a simple move of putting someone on adam then he becomes null and void which also affects our other players as they can not get the ball from adam. class players are able to make room for themselves! he had the luxury at blakcpool where he and the team were not respected enough that any manager would have a sit down with the team and said how do we stop blackpool from playing! He is now a liverpool player and it will be interesting to see hown he deals with team goign out to stop him. My main concern is you can not play meireles and adam together (maybe against lesser teams at home(not enough defensive quality) and with the lucas and adam pairing i don't think there enough runs form the middle. obviously when gerard is back i presume it will be stevie G, adam and lucas which will be very effective but i am really apprehensive about gerard injury. If i am honey i beleive he will used sparingly this season..(20-25 league games max)

mixednuts wrote: »

Oh yea he was also such a me feiner for putting the ball at the front post for Suarez to score in the same game :rolleyes:

That was clearly a shot. only messing it was a great ball in.

Turtyturd

djPSB wrote: »

He reminds me more of a Frank Lampard than Stevie G..

if anything Adam would be our Lampard/Rooney/Ronaldo.

Bowlardo

murpho999 wrote: »

That would be nice as I don't like being forced to use my ignore button.

no need to be so pissy murphy!

Turtyturd

Turtyturd wrote: »

if anything Adam would be our Lampard/Rooney/Ronaldo.

more messi/platini

Leiva

Mata done and dusted to Chelsea for 5yrs:o

Was hoping he would stay put and us ramping up interest come Jan or next summer.

Also anyone else watch the Swansea keeper Vorm again yesterday .
He is having one of the best couple of debut matches for a keeper I have ever seen .
Would he be willing to sit it out for Reina as his backup ?
He looks a real talent .

Turtyturd

rarnes1 wrote: »

more messi/platini

ridiculous comparison... They are obviously too thin .

djPSB

mixednuts wrote: »

Really?

IMO he has a quick touch and eye like Parker .

Fat Frank likes to hover around 20yards for smash .

Gerrard is just a beast .

Early days who knows .

Yeah he has similar attributes to Parker alright..

I think its just his get up that reminds me of Lampard.. Hair always perfectly gelled, small bit of a poser..

He will be good, once he's given a bit of time to settle..

mike65

mixednuts wrote: »

Also anyone else watch the Swansea keeper Vorm again yesterday .
He is having one of the best couple of debut matches for a keeper I have ever seen .
Would he be willing to sit it out for Reina as his backup ?
He looks a real talent .

Vorm was signed to replace De Vries in the summer so he ain't going anywhere.