Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

s_carnage

Martinez has a 25 million buy out clause so no reason we couldn't go for him for that. You'd imagine though if he was on United's radar during the summer we would have tried to sign him instead of breaking the bank and going through a long winded drawn out transfer process with Sneijder. I also believe Martinez would suit us a hell of a lot more than Sneijder would.

Also Sneijder seems to be getting more and more injury prone by the season. Anytime I see a tweet from him it's always something along the lines of I should be back training/playing soon. Just checking on Inters site he has played 10 games in all competitions this season and only played 90 mins in 3 of those.

dahat

It is like the summer all over again..it is highly unlikely Fergie will buy anyone this window,why are people discussing the merits of Torres?he is done for as a top player,it is as obvious as hell,not worth 5 mill let alone 20 million

Le King

However neither of these players are likely to be available.

The only midfielder who I'd say is good enough and can be bought wuld be Javi Martinez.

I'd rather we took a punt on Lucas than buy Sneijder.

It's all mindless shit anyway. We aren't going to buy anyone.

VW 1

Your Airbag wrote: »

It's ambitious I agree but our midfield is in it's most weakened state for a long long time now. Tiote we could get for less than 20m I would think, 15m maybe. Martinez for 20m. Thats 65m.

The rest of that post talks a lot of sense, we should have started building when the problems were arising, not waiting until we only have a couple of fit CMs at the club and none of the first choice ones. I agree on that much.

But if you think those two players will be available for a combined 35m, I would pay that myself to get them to the club. Tiote has more than 5 and a half years left on his contract. They wouldnt accept less than 25m I guarantee you that.

Martinez is going to go for at least 25-30m, the very very least. His buyout clause is actually £34million.

daveyboy_1ie

Read about Torres today in the Independent online and then they say the source of the story is the Daily Mail. Enough said.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/chelsea-to-sell-torres-for-20m-at-massive-loss-2963046.html

VW 1

dahat wrote: »

It is like the summer all over again..it is highly unlikely Fergie will buy anyone this window,why are people discussing the merits of Torres?he is done for as a top player,it is as obvious as hell,not worth 5 mill let alone 20 million

Come on how can you say that one of the best in the business is done after a bad 12-18 months. Rooney went through a torrid patch until the start of this season. It happens.

For 20million considering the class the man has previously shown, if available he should be gone for.

Obviously it wouldnt ever happen, but he is certainly worth that price.

dahat

VW 1 wrote: »

Come on how can you say that one of the best in the business is done after a bad 12-18 months. Rooney went through a torrid patch until the start of this season. It happens.

For 20million considering the class the man has previously shown, if available he should be gone for.

Obviously it wouldnt ever happen, but he is certainly worth that price.

18 months is a long time for a player to be in the mire,he has been down and out not just searching for form..His confidence and speed are done,the injuries have taken there toll on him.
If Utd spent 20 million on him i would cry tbh,

s_carnage

VW 1 wrote: »

Come on how can you say that one of the best in the business is done after a bad 12-18 months. Rooney went through a torrid patch until the start of this season. It happens.

For 20million considering the class the man has previously shown, if available he should be gone for.

Obviously it wouldnt ever happen, but he is certainly worth that price.

Would agree with this if our CM wasn't in need of a huge cash injection and that I hope the majority of our transfer budget for the next year would be spent on. Torres was actually was playing well (although not scoring) for Chelsea before he got his suspension and if he could bag a few goals and go on a decent run you could easily see his confidence return and that is his main problem at the moment.

VW 1

dahat wrote: »

18 months is a long time for a player to be in the mire,he has been down and out not just searching for form..His confidence and speed are done,the injuries have taken there toll on him.
If Utd spent 20 million on him i would cry tbh,

he looked to have it all back at the start of the season until his 3 match ban after the red against Swansea. He still has it in there somewhere, just needs to be reignited.

Mitch Connor

dahat wrote: »

18 months is a long time for a player to be in the mire,he has been down and out not just searching for form..His confidence and speed are done,the injuries have taken there toll on him.
If Utd spent 20 million on him i would cry tbh,

The funny thing is - there are still flashes of him there. Against United for example, I thought he was generally excellent and had he not missed that sitter people would have said he had a brilliant game. The sitter was a terrible miss though!

At various times this season, especially at the beginning of it, I thought he was looking very good again - not gettting it right in front of goal but being quite unlucky in that and his movement and general play were very good.

I reckon if he bagged a couple of goals in a couple of games, and was playing in a system suited to getting the best out of him, he could be one of the best strikers around again.

He would be a gamble though - and not one I see United making, and not one I would want us to make if it means that yet again we ignore the massive issue in midfield. Someone will certainly take a punt on him at that price though, and someone could grab a bargain at that price.

Blatter

The Torres story definitely smacks of BS. It's been confirmed that Anelka is leaving in January and Drogba will gone to the African Cup of Nations for a few weeks.

If they were to sell Torres as well they would be losing 3 senior strikers in one clean sweep. Can't see it myself.

Anyway, kind of irrelevant to us, Fergie wouldn't touch off Torres with a barge pole for £20m and ~£175k/week wages.

dahat

VW 1 wrote: »

he looked to have it all back at the start of the season until his 3 match ban after the red against Swansea. He still has it in there somewhere, just needs to be reignited.

Chelsea thought this also and paid 50 million,now it seems they are prepared to lose 30 million by selling him.....this says enough to me.
I just cannot see him getting back to even near his best,his confidence is shot and even 2 bad games would set him back to square 1....

VW 1

dahat wrote: »

Chelsea thought this also and paid 50 million,now it seems they are prepared to lose 30 million by selling him.....this says enough to me.
I just cannot see him getting back to even near his best,his confidence is shot and even 2 bad games would set him back to square 1....

I think the willingness to take a loss may be because AVB didnt sign him, he doesnt want him, and doesnt intend to play him.

Seems a waste both for Torres and Chelsea to have him sitting on the bench when they can sell him on and recoup some of the money for him.

I am sure that AVB will have someone in mind that he wants to come in if all three strikers leave the club. Sturridge is still there, as well as Lukaku, and they may yet add in January.

Blatter

Lukaku has shown nothing to suggest he's anywhere near ready yet though. Kalou isn't good enough to be relied on.

They need Sturridge out wide atm, unless they bring in a winger in January. Hard to bring in good players in January as well. Lots of players won't move as they fear they may take a while to settle/risk not getting straight into the team just before the Euros, Clubs don't want to sell mid season, cup tied for he CL etc. Not the time to be making massive changes at a club. I think Chelsea will do some business in January, but will leave most of it until the Summer.

Balague saying Torres is not for sale and I'd tend to believe that myself. I'd be very very surprised if he wasn't at Chelsea come February.

Mitch Connor

I could see them looking to sell in the summer, but not in January. Bringing in a striker of sufficient quality would be an issue in January as they are still in the CL and so will still need to consider registration issues.

POSSY

Blatter wrote: »

They need Sturridge out wide atm, unless they bring in a winger in January. Hard to bring in good players in January as well. Lots of players won't move as they fear they may take a while to settle/risk not getting straight into the team just before the Euros, Clubs don't want to sell mid season, cup tied for he CL etc. Not the time to be making massive changes at a club. I think Chelsea will do some business in January, but will leave most of it until the Summer.

Balague saying Torres is not for sale and I'd tend to believe that myself. I'd be very very surprised if he wasn't at Chelsea come February.

If only we'd held on to Obertan we could have offered Beba and Obertan for Torres!

POSSY

POSSY wrote: »

If only we'd held on to Obertan we could have offered Beba and Obertan for Torres!

Is that Berba and Bebe's lovechild?

daveyboy_1ie

POSSY wrote: »

If only we'd held on to Obertan we could have offered Beba and Obertan for Torres!

Bebe or Berba?

shadowcomplex

shadowcomplex wrote: »

---

de gea

---

Jones---Vidic---smalling---Evra

Nani-Sneijder-Martinez--Young

---

Rooney--Torres

---

Imagine this was our team for next season:D

sorry just up out of bed,fixed to smalling

POSSY

rarnes1 wrote: »

Is that Berba and Bebe's lovechild?

Haha, yeah sorry meant Bebe! One could only imagine the awesomeness of thier love child though!

Kylo Ren

POSSY wrote: »

Haha, yeah sorry meant Bebe! One could only imagine the awesomeness of thier love child though!

The coolest waste of space in the league. Think of the possibilities.

Will I Amnt

Fairly damning stats on our central midfielders,especially regarding tackling and passing.

Most assists:league-Milner-5;United-Giggs- 3

Most passes:league-Y.Toure-1104;United-Fletcher-476

Most tackles:league-Lucas-68;United-Carrick-26.

Suppose injuries would have to be taken into account aswel but it's still a massive margin.

kryogen

cambo2008 wrote: »

Fairly damning stats on our central midfielders,especially regarding tackling and passing.

Most assists:league-Milner-5;United-Giggs- 3

Most passes:league-Y.Toure-1104;United-Fletcher-476

Most tackles:league-Lucas-68;United-Carrick-26.

Suppose injuries would have to be taken into account aswel but it's still a massive margin.

They are not damning actually, for a more accurate idea on how the midfield ranks amongst the rest of the league you should actually compare it to the league average, not the league best. the stats can be used to mislead people if not done correctly.

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

They are not damning actually, for a more accurate idea on how the midfield ranks amongst the rest of the league you should actually compare it to the league average, not the league best. the stats can be used to mislead people if not done correctly.

Where do you think Carrick and Fletcher rank with the tackles and passing???
Nowhere near the top anyway.

Giggsy11

cambo2008 wrote: »

Fairly damning stats on our central midfielders,especially regarding tackling and passing.

Most assists:league-Milner-5;United-Giggs- 3

Most passes:league-Y.Toure-1104;United-Fletcher-476

Most tackles:league-Lucas-68;United-Carrick-26.

Suppose injuries would have to be taken into account aswel but it's still a massive margin.

Also do we have stats for most interceptions?

nicklauski

I'd imagine Lucas started at least 9 of the games so far. Carrick has started 4.
Probably the same goes for Yaya and Fletch.

Very hard to compare players stats when one has played twice as many games as the other.

VW 1

cambo2008 wrote: »

Fairly damning stats on our central midfielders,especially regarding tackling and passing.

Most assists:league-Milner-5;United-Giggs- 3

Most passes:league-Y.Toure-1104;United-Fletcher-476

Most tackles:league-Lucas-68;United-Carrick-26.

Suppose injuries would have to be taken into account aswel but it's still a massive margin.

James Milner - 11 league appearances ; Giggs - 9 league appearances

Yaya Toure - 14 league appearances ; Fletcher - 8 league appearances

Lucas Leiva - 12 league appearances ; Carrick - 7 league appearances

Stats can only be damning when they are looking at the same information over a similar sample size. Those you presented dont come close to making an argument against our current players as the sample sizes arent close to being the same.

Will I Amnt

VW 1 wrote: »

Suppose injuries would have to be taken into account aswelbut it's still a massive margin.

James Milner - 11 league appearances ; Giggs - 9 league appearances

Yaya Toure - 14 league appearances ; Fletcher - 8 league appearances

Lucas Leiva - 12 league appearances ; Carrick - 7 league appearances

Stats can only be damning when they are looking at the same information over a similar sample size. Those you presented dont come close to making an argument against our current players as the sample sizes arent close to being the same.

Have you trouble reading???
The line I bolded was supposed to cover that point.

It can be seen by looking at them stats that we are still behind if you worked out averages per game.

MisterAnarchy

Marca are reporting that David Villa has been made available for transfer.
Perhaps there is some truth to the rumours of himself and Messi falling out .

If he were available ,he'd be a good buy for United ,far better than Torres who cant hit a barn door ,but the transfer priorities lie elsewhere in the team (central midfield).

kryogen

cambo2008 wrote: »

Have you trouble reading???
The line I bolded was supposed to cover that point.

It can be seen by looking at them stats that we are still behind if you worked out averages per game.

Do you actually know the league averages for the stats you put up no?

It seems strange to me that such a simple concept is so hard for you to grasp

kryogen

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Marca are reporting that David Villa has been made available for transfer.
Perhaps there is some truth to the rumours of himself and Messi falling out .

If he were available ,he'd be a good buy for United ,far better than Torres who cant hit a barn door ,but the transfer priorities lie elsewhere in the team (central midfield).

The last thing we need is to spend more money on the forward line tbh

He is too old now also to make it a realistic possibility for United

s_carnage

cambo2008 wrote: »

Have you trouble reading???
The line I bolded was supposed to cover that point.

It can be seen by looking at them stats that we are still behind if you worked out averages per game.

Also Milner has been playing out wide mostly for City this season so if you include him you would have to include Nani & Young who have both got 5 assists this season for us aswell.

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

Have you trouble reading???
The line I bolded was supposed to cover that point.

It can be seen by looking at them stats that we are still behind if you worked out averages per game.

Do you actually know the league averages for the stats you put up no?

It seems strange to me that such a simple concept is so hard for you to grasp

The list for tackling,passing and assists was on ssn earlier and it showed the top 5 for each.
There wasnt much in the difference between any of the top 5 and then there was a massive gap to the best United player.

Im talking about working out the average per game for the players in the top few in each category would from a quick glance still leave our players well behind.

For a team in 2nd place in the league you would expect to be at least matching up with most of your rivals on these kind of stats.

kryogen

cambo2008 wrote: »

The list for tackling,passing and assists was on ssn earlier and it showed the top 5 for each.
There wasnt much in the difference between any of the top 5 and then there was a massive gap to the best United player.

Im talking about working out the average per game for the players in the top few in each category would from a quick glance still leave our players well behind.

For a team in 2nd place in the league you would expect to be at least matching up with most of your rivals on these kind of stats.

Not necessarily, its those kind of bull**** stats that sky and other media outlets love that drive me bananas, all it takes if your interested is to look up the stats yourself, im sure if sky put up the top 5 worst passers in the league and showed where the united player in question ranked it would make him look great

VW 1

cambo2008 wrote: »

Have you trouble reading???
The line I bolded was supposed to cover that point.

It can be seen by looking at them stats that we are still behind if you worked out averages per game.

I can confirm I have zero trouble reading, thanks for your concern.

Injuries or whatever aside, the sample sizes are not close enough to be comparable. Or who the opposition were on the day in question. Or any of the other factors that could influence them.

cambo2008 wrote: »

The list for tackling,passing and assists was on ssn earlier and it showed the top 5 for each.
There wasnt much in the difference between any of the top 5 and then there was a massive gap to the best United player.

Im talking about working out the average per game for the players in the top few in each category would from a quick glance still leave our players well behind.

For a team in 2nd place in the league you would expect to be at least matching up with most of your rivals on these kind of stats.

Luckily for us the league hasnt been won on stats for the last 20 or so years, it operates on points won and lost, not the manner in which they are won.

Will I Amnt

kryogen wrote: »

im sure if sky put up the top 5 worst passers in the league and showed where the united player in question ranked it would make him look great

And I would hope so but it's the top half of the table we should be comparing to not the bottom.

Everything we have achieved over the last few years has been in spite of a very ordinary midfield.
They are not poor by any means but compared to our defence and attack they don't measure up.

kryogen

To paraphrase a very successful coach also

Stats are for losers, the final result is for winners

Regardless, the point stands that the only time assists, passing stats etc... should really be looked at with any value is end of season, even then its a flawed system imo. so many intangibles to take into account

kryogen

cambo2008 wrote: »

And I would hope so but it's the top half of the table we should be comparing to not the bottom.

Everything we have achieved over the last few years has been in spite of a very ordinary midfield.
They are not poor by any means but compared to our defence and attack they don't measure up.

Nobody will argue that the midfield is the weak link in the team, nobody in their right mind anyway, but it is actually limited further, to just central midfield.

In comparing stats we must first compare the whole league, over the same number of games etc... the sample size would need to be significantly larger then what it is now for example, then you can break down how a team/player compares to bottom half,top half etc...

Mitch Connor

There are a couple of simple facts.

1. Our midfield isn't as good as the top sides - we don't need stats to prove or disprove that imo, it is the weakest area of our team.

2. The time our lads have had on the pitch will differ to the top players at other sides.

From my quick look at it, in terms of minutes and only looking at PL games:

Anderson - 46%
Cleverley - 24%
Carrick - 34%
Fletcher - 47%
Giggs - 21%
Jones - 7%

Now, I may be a little off, but not by much. Basic point is, none of our midfielders have managed to play in more than half the time available in the premiership.

That is a shocking stat imo - shows how much we have chopped and changed over the season.

EDIT: For Jones I have only used the Villa and Wolves games - couldn't think of another PL game where he played midfield - did he do so vs Liverpool?

Will I Amnt

VW 1 wrote: »

I can confirm I have zero trouble reading, thanks for your concern.

Sorry dude,didn't mean to be snappy like that.
Not having the best of days.

Jax Teller

Yeah Jones played in cm against Liverpool , pretty much man marked Adam .

Mitch Connor

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

Yeah Jones played in cm against Liverpool , pretty much man marked Adam .

Cheers. Previous Jones figure was also incorrect, should have been 13% (without the liverpool game). With the Liverpool game included I make it Jones has played CM 19% of the time available.

parker kent

aperture_nuig wrote: »

While I agree with you, I still think united need to spend to improve/cover injuries in January. I've never been a fan of Carrick, but if we had a top top quality midfielder to put in there with him, he'd be fine. But We do have a big gaping hole in the centre of the pitch. And While it's great that we're so close to city, I still think improvement is needed.

Oh I understand that and agree. It is just that City were being spoken of as near unbeatable in the league. 5 points was not that big of a gap, so I think there were some over exaggerated posts about how difficult United would find it. Any team can lose 2 games due to bad luck, poor performances etc. City are no different. Plus it will be interesting to see how they react to the loss.

Smegball

I'd move for Rodwell, only 20 and with Everton being skint I can't see them turning down around 15m.

NeVeR

Lads are we getting Sneijder ?

TheBunk1

NeVeR wrote: »

Lads are we getting Sneijder ?

Your username will answer that....

Kylo Ren

NeVeR wrote: »

Lads are we getting Sneijder ?

Oh god not again...

The_Kew_Tour

Not the S word again!!!

homerjay2005

i think we are going to drive ourselves mad with this transfer talk.

what will probably happen is we are linked to somebody, it grows legs, it looks like a signing will take place, will drive us mad until deadline day and then we will pull out. or something. i hope i am wrong, cos we desperately need creativity in the team.

its going to be a long 6 weeks and ive set myself up for disappointment already.

The_Kew_Tour

I am hoping Sky Bet give as generous odds as they did for Sneijder not coming in the summer.

Cause you just know we be linked with every bloody Tom, Dick and Harry from here till February.