Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

kryogen

But we dont need a Silva role player particularly

we need a proper central midfielder, probably two. Actual central midfielders

City have Toure, Barry, De Jong etc....

Silva can have a free role for that reason, United dont have that luxury, we do have Rooney!

DOC09UNAM

kryogen wrote: »

But we dont need a Silva role player particularly

we need a proper central midfielder, probably two. Actual central midfielders

City have Toure, Barry, De Jong etc....

Silva can have a free role for that reason, United dont have that luxury, we do have Rooney!

Wouldn't mind himself and garcia tbh, as unlikely as it is.

kryogen

Garcia looks very good alright, his value has gone up quite considerably in a year, could have been got for 6million last summer haha

I guarantee we would be paying 18+ for him now

DOC09UNAM

Yeah kinda sucks alright, 30m for gaitan and 18ish for garcia, never gonna happen :pac:

Would much rather that money spent on martinez and a solid left back.

kryogen

Such a shame the twins cant stay fit cause Evras spot is most definitely up for grabs imo, he needs to have pressure put on him at least I mean when he is fit he is a guaranteed starter week in week out, never under any pressure for hos position and it hasnt done him any good!

Fryers is an opinion there but I know he is viewed as more of a centre back

Fabio if he was fit could definitely be pushing Evra.

Pro. F

Didn't see the game today, but it sounds like a good solid, disposing of the minnows, type of performance. And our points total and momentum is still great.

keane2097 wrote: »

Jones + Cleverley is going to be sexual.

It will be the most balanced central midfield that we've had in a long time all right. But we will still be short of creative backup for Cleverly. And Jones is nowhere near top quality in the CM role. He's better than Carrick imo (extremely close really), but that is still a long way from what we should be looking for - the likes of Toure, Song, Essien, Vidal, etc., etc.

We'll probably be able to do a lot with a Jones/Cleverly pair alongside the rest of the team - win leagues, compete for the CL - but having a makeshift CM like Jones is just an unnecessary impediment. Why not get a proper CM to play alongside Cleverly and realise our full potential? Why on earth would you not do that?

I do like Jones in the CM. He's got a load of energy, which I think is an important factor. He knows how to defend too. On the ball he has a half decent pass and his decision making is good (I know he needs to improve the decisions, but he looks like he gets the basic concept). To me he is quite like Fletcher with added defensive strength. But he is never going to be skillful enough to use possession positively when being pressed. He just doesn't have that control of the ball and that's not something you develop that late in your career. So we are always going to be relying on his partner to do that possession job. Imo that is a terrible waste of a position on the pitch.

Le King wrote: »

Silva role is what he'd take up I hear.

He looks like that kind of player. But if we have a player playing just behind the striker that means Rooney has to go up front and neither Welbeck nor Chico plays. And we still wouldn't be solving the problem of centre midfield. Sounds like madness to me. Even if we are buying him as a creative wide player that means that Young is probably going to be dropped. So we've decided already that Young isn't good enough? Argh! This shít is wrecking my head.

Normally I wouldn't worry about stories like this, but the way this one is being talked about is making it more and more believable that it is true. Maybe we are going to pick up some good box to box CM as well and Gaitan is going to be a luxury signing? If that is the case then that is a seriously impressive transfer spend this year.

Giggsy11

kryogen wrote: »

But we dont need a Silva role player particularly

we need a proper central midfielder, probably two. Actual central midfielders

City have Toure, Barry, De Jong etc....

Silva can have a free role for that reason, United dont have that luxury, we do have Rooney!

If he is Silva type of player then I would like him here. Yes he is not a central midfielder but players like Silva retains possession better than most which itself gives us edge ovee the other players.

Take Silva off from City line up, even if they have Yaya, De Jong, Barry, Milner they wont retain possession as good as they do with Silva. So if he is anywhere near Silva qualitywise and playing style wise it would be interesting signing.

jambofc

another decent performance but im still worried by our lack of possession,we just cant dictate a game anymore,53% possession yesterday and 51% against wolves is not good enough against weaker teams,both of them had good chances to score against us and better teams would have,suppose we can only beat whats in front of us but this is a huge problem for us and will cost us as it allready has this season.

conno16

Evra is cooked.
should have sold him during the summer.
hopefully PSG will come in for him over the next few weeks / months

conno16

do people think POgba will leave?
is he worth the hassle keeping?

Jax Teller

If Pogba leaves he's mad , it's just a greedy agent fcuking everything up .


Conno what's your opinion on the Mexican now

conno16

good goalscorer
he reminds me of andy cole tho in the early years
takes 4 attempts to finally convert

super signing by saf tho

JimsAlterEgo

Coletrickle88 wrote: »

If Pogba leaves he's mad , it's just a greedy agent fcuking everything up .


Conno what's your opinion on the Mexican now

oh dear, I assume hes back!!

keane2097

Phil Jones doesn't look even slightly like his "natural position" is a centre-back. Why do people keep saying this? I know it's repeated ad nauseum in the media but it's the same garbage we heard about Jack Rodwell a few years ago who is clearly a natural box to box midfielder.

VW 1

I do think that while Phil Jones looks good at CB, he looked just as good at RB and he looks just as good again in the middle of the park.

I dont know many "natural" centre backs that show as quick an understanding of the midfield role as Jones does. He communicates beautifully with Carrick in terms of one going forward and one sitting back. He covers the ground between the boxes with no problem. He can defend. He can attack. He can run strongly on the ball. He has no problem standing on the edge of the box demanding the ball to shoot. His decision making isnt great, but this is something that can be improved upon.

Put it this way, if Paul Pogba (the best thing since Patrick Vieira) was to put in the performance that Phil Jones did in yesterday's game, everyone would be creaming themselves at the young talent we have. Bear in mind that Jones is only a year older than Pogba.

His potential is scary.

OctavarIan

One of the most exciting parts to Jones' game is when he absolutely bombs forward. Even though he's very young he seems to read the game well enough to know when he can and can't do that, and he nearly always makes something happen in the box when he does. Him and Rooney share that same enthusiasm and it seems to rub off on the rest of the team. Look at Carrick ffs, it's like he wound back the clock a few years.

I agree with what other people have said, he's a nailed on future club captain.

parker kent

VW 1 wrote: »

Put it this way, if Paul Pogba (the best thing since Patrick Vieira) was to put in the performance that Phil Jones did in yesterday's game, everyone would be creaming themselves at the young talent we have. Bear in mind that Jones is only a year older than Pogba.

His potential is scary.

I agree with that. I think his performances in midfield show he can be more than a short term thing. I'd be all for him getting a longer term run in there. When you are that much of an all rounder, central midfield sounds like the perfect place.

Ordinary man

Personally i can't see him as a centre back because if his positioning and tendancies to get drawn out of the box. But he is a real breathe of fresh air in midfield - surging on with the ball and challenging for everything. He would remind me more of a young roy keane at forest than any of the centre backs he was compared to

conno16

i'd be extremely worried if manu are deciding to build a midfield with phil jones in it.
if this is the extent of the ambition for the club going forward, well saf has serious questions to answer
he'll prob be a fine premiership player and have a fine career at united
however he is no roy keane, nor is he a wes sneidjer
he may become an uncompromising CD (like vidic) who can play the ball forward (like rio) in time

Giggsy11

keane2097 wrote: »

Phil Jones doesn't look even slightly like his "natural position" is a centre-back. Why do people keep saying this? I know it's repeated ad nauseum in the media but it's the same garbage we heard about Jack Rodwell a few years ago who is clearly a natural box to box midfielder.

Agreed. It would be waste of his talent to play him as a CB imo. He has much more to his game than a natural CB. Given a choice I would want him to be moulded into box to box player.

VW 1 wrote: »

I do think that while Phil Jones looks good at CB, he looked just as good at RB and he looks just as good again in the middle of the park.

I dont know many "natural" centre backs that show as quick an understanding of the midfield role as Jones does. He communicates beautifully with Carrick in terms of one going forward and one sitting back. He covers the ground between the boxes with no problem. He can defend. He can attack. He can run strongly on the ball. He has no problem standing on the edge of the box demanding the ball to shoot. His decision making isnt great, but this is something that can be improved upon.

Put it this way, if Paul Pogba (the best thing since Patrick Vieira) was to put in the performance that Phil Jones did in yesterday's game, everyone would be creaming themselves at the young talent we have. Bear in mind that Jones is only a year older than Pogba.

His potential is scary.

It is scary that he is just 1 year older than Pogba but plays like a player in his peak..

Regarding bold part, couldn't have put it in a better way. You almost nailed it.

VW 1

Giggsy11 wrote: »

Agreed. It would be waste of his talent to play him as a CB imo. He has much more to his game than a natural CB. Given a choice I would want him to be moulded into box to box player.



It is scary that he is just 2 year older than Pogba but plays like a player in his peak..

Regarding bold part, couldn't have put it in a better way. You almost nailed it.

I actually checked this. It is one year and three weeks. The future is bright for Jones...

Corvo

Its all well and good that Jones puts in a fantastic performance against the likes of QPR (and Villa) but at the end of the day, he simply does not have the technical ability to run a midfield effectively against a top side, and I would fear for our ability to keep the ball should we start him there against world-class opposition, especially in European competition.

Saying that, I love his drive from midifield, his utter determination to get up and down the pitch. A poster mentioned his likeness to a young Roy Keane at Forest, but I would argue that Keane was a better footballer, both with the ball at his feet and his positioning, even at that age. Obviously, time will tell. The best thing about young players is their ability to shock you.

I'm genuinly excited by Jonesy, but lets give him a chance first. Its the same with Cleverley...there is obvious talent, but players like this need time and more importantly, to keep their feet on the ground.

Giggsy11

VW 1 wrote: »

I actually checked this. It is one year and three weeks. The future is bright for Jones...

That was a typo. I saw your post that he is just one year older. Genuine typo

Yeah with all the Jones hype now few people are forgetting Smalling's performance. He is the best yound defener we have got and in years time he would be better CB than Jones IMO. (As Jones wont be CB and even if he did, Smalling will be better than him defensively).

jonnyfingers

The thing I love about Jones is the shouting he does at other players, and himself, when something isn't done right. He seems like a real leader.

His energy is unbelievable but I do worry that he might pick up an injury the way he goes for every ball/run/tackle.

But at times he looked incredibly comfortable in midfield. Really thought he had scored when he bent the ball past the keeper but hit the post. Would have been a great goal too. However every time he burst forward he looked like creating something, more from his pure pace and strength than any specific skillful move. We've lacked that for a number of years. But with him, Rooney, Young, Nani and Valencia running at the defense it's sure to terrify a few defenders.

The_Kew_Tour

Jones will go down as one of SAF greatest buys.

MagicMarker

conno16 wrote: »

i'd be extremely worried if manu are deciding to build a midfield with phil jones in it.
if this is the extent of the ambition for the club going forward, well saf has serious questions to answer
he'll prob be a fine premiership player and have a fine career at united
however he is no roy keane, nor is he a wes sneidjer
he may become an uncompromising CD (like vidic) who can play the ball forward (like rio) in time

Go away.

PHB

I really don't see Jones being good enough long term in central midfield. I think he looks so good more because we've actually forgotten what it's like to have an energetic central midfielder.

Jones is doing a great job, but ultimately doesn't have the range of passing or vision required to be a top class central midfielder. Beyond that, I'd question just how good a job he'd do on somebody like Silva.

He needs to develop his positional game in the centre of defense, and then can possibly become the best CB in the world. He has unreal potential, and I think him playing in midfield a little is great for his game going forward, and long term I'd like him to be like Carvalho in that sense, driving forward when the game needs him to.

But at a certain point, he needs to be switched back into central defense.

conno16

PHB wrote: »

I really don't see Jones being good enough long term in central midfield. I think he looks so good more because we've actually forgotten what it's like to have an energetic central midfielder.

Jones is doing a great job, but ultimately doesn't have the range of passing or vision required to be a top class central midfielder. Beyond that, I'd question just how good a job he'd do on somebody like Silva.

He needs to develop his positional game in the centre of defense, and then can possibly become the best CB in the world. He has unreal potential, and I think him playing in midfield a little is great for his game going forward, and long term I'd like him to be like Carvalho in that sense, driving forward when the game needs him to.

But at a certain point, he needs to be switched back into central defense.

couldn't agree more
well said

VW 1

PHB wrote: »

Beyond that, I'd question just how good a job he'd do on somebody like Silva.

Wasn't he put in to do a specific man marking job in midfield? I remember him keeping Adam realtively quiet in the game v Liverpool, his first venture into the midfield. Has he been given a similar task since?

Btw, I obviously realise that Adam is nowhere near the level of Silva, but that was his first game as a CM and he has improved in the position since then.

conno16

no disrespect but if keeping adam under control is the level of expectation we have for jonesy, well then things have really changed at OT this season
charles adam is prob one of the weakest players in the prem from a technical perspective

keane2097

He's fat as well. Only any good when a team is built around him from scratch.

VW 1

@conno

One of the weakest technical players in the PL based on what? The fact that he is a nailed on starter for a club chalenging for the top 4 of the PL wouldnt scream weak technical player for me.

I said it was Jones' first venture into midfield and he carried it out well. Never said he was the second coming of Claude Makelele.

Corvo

PHB wrote: »

Jones is doing a great job, but ultimately doesn't have the range of passing or vision required to be a top class central midfielder. Beyond that, I'd question just how good a job he'd do on somebody like Silva.

But at a certain point, he needs to be switched back into central defense.

I would agree with that. While he did do a good job on Adam and considering it was his first game in midfield, he impressed.

However, since then he has not come against anyone who would really give him a challenge has he? Villa, Wolves and QPR am I right? Not exactly known for their Riquelme's. In fact, I'd say those games suited him more, the battling and hacking and shoving that went on

Again, I'm not bashing the player or making him out to be Dickson Etuhu, but I think he could very well be a magnificent centre back, who can add to the midfield and make up the numbers ala Thiago Silva or the like.

If we could settle him in there alongside Smalling etc, and purchase/nurture another craftier/silkier player in the midfield, then I think we would be a lot more balanced.

keane2097

Jones + Cleverley = perfect

wait and see

SlickRic

ha, Adam can be accused of a lot of things, but "bad technically" is not one of them.

Ferguson has got a blind spot to the Anfield game every year now, so putting Jones on one of our midfielders wasn't the wackiest thing to happen. he played well, and almost got a goal.

also, using that game as some sort of barometer for how Utd play is a bit stupid. that isn't a regular feature of Ferguson's tactics, it's just that that day, like he seems to do regularly at Anfield, he overthinks the game hugely. which is awesome for us

either way, Jones and Carrick is your best combo by a mile right now. he'll be a CB long-term, but if someone's too ignorant to see Jones is in midfield due to the lack of options in there right now, then, well, they're really not worth arguing with.

you may have to get used to it too if Fergie doesn't "see value in the market" in January.

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

Jones + Cleverley = perfect

wait and see

as a 3 man midfield I really want to see Jones, Carrick and Cleverley - with Nani Rooney and Welbeck as a front 3 I think it could be awesome...

conno16

any truth in the rumour that scholesy might be back on the park before long?

keane2097

Mitch Connor wrote: »

as a 3 man midfield I really want to see Jones, Carrick and Cleverley - with Nani Rooney and Welbeck as a front 3 I think it could be awesome...

Amen

lordgoat

Carrick can't be dropped at the moment.

SlickRic

conno16 wrote: »

any truth in the rumour that scholesy might be back on the park before long?

the rumours came from the Sun.

have a guess.

The_Kew_Tour

Anyone Carricks successful passing rate yesterday?

Put in great 90 minutes, even taking away the goal.

Giggsy11

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Anyone Carricks successful passing rate yesterday?

Put in great 90 minutes, even taking away the goal.

If I'm not wrong he attempted 64 and completed 54-57. I read that yesterday so forgot the exact numbers.

Edit: Carrick (central-midfield): 49/58 passing (84%), 2/6 long balls, 0/0
through balls, ....

conno16

scholes is still training with the first team though.
i would love to see us making a move for pirlo tbh
at 32 he could still have 2 savage seasons in the premiership

conno16

carrick is toothless
god i thought we put this argument to bed a few seasons ago
shure anyone could pass the ball 10 ft left / right
the shock on his face when he actually scored yesterday was priceless
not a manu player

Ordinary man

SlickRic wrote: »

ha, Adam can be accused of a lot of things, but "bad technically" is not one of them.

Ferguson has got a blind spot to the Anfield game every year now, so putting Jones on one of our midfielders wasn't the wackiest thing to happen. he played well, and almost got a goal.

also, using that game as some sort of barometer for how Utd play is a bit stupid. that isn't a regular feature of Ferguson's tactics, it's just that that day, like he seems to do regularly at Anfield, he overthinks the game hugely. which is awesome for us

either way, Jones and Carrick is your best combo by a mile right now. he'll be a CB long-term, but if someone's too ignorant to see Jones is in midfield due to the lack of options in there right now, then, well, they're really not worth arguing with.

you may have to get used to it too if Fergie doesn't "see value in the market" in January.

Nice attitude to different opinions to yours;) Did he start for england because of their lack of midfield options?

keane2097

Ordinary man wrote: »

Nice attitude to different opinions to yours;) Did he start for england because of their lack of midfield options?

lordgoat

conno16 wrote: »

carrick is toothless
god i thought we put this argument to bed a few seasons ago
shure anyone could pass the ball 10 ft left / right
the shock on his face when he actually scored yesterday was priceless
not a manu player

you haven't a clue.

conno16

fair enough.
carrick is only starting because of a distinct lack of options.
saf no longer rates him, in fact has a dislike for the chap (triggered by his pathetic display in the CL final last year)
hes got no vision
hes got no fire
hes a nothing player
pathetic - bring it on pogba, get cleverly back etc
sign a pirlo

Mitch Connor

Ordinary man wrote: »

Nice attitude to different opinions to yours;) Did he start for england because of their lack of midfield options?

His move to midfield has been due to a lack of other options, but the reality also is that himself and Carrick have performed brilliantly as a partnership - and if Cleverley was back for Wednesday, he'd be on the bench - he'll have to work to get his place back in the side - as Carrick and Jones are deserving of keeping their places.

Yes the games we have played lately haven't been the toughest of our season, but we were looking horrid in games that should have been just as easy. Our midfield is putting up more of a fight and we are playing well going forward. Jones and Carrick, as our midfield pairing, are a big part of that. Both are playing brilliantly in midfield.

Mr Alan

keane2097 wrote: »

He's fat as well. Only any good when a team is built around him from scratch.

Sorry, but this myth has been well & truly shattered since he moved to Anfield.