Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

JimsAlterEgo

lordgoat wrote: »

you haven't a clue.

dont bite

3hn2givr7mx1sc

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Anyone Carricks successful passing rate yesterday?

Put in great 90 minutes, even taking away the goal.

Guardian chalkboard of his passing attached.

keane2097

Mr Alan wrote: »

Sorry, but this myth has been well & truly shattered since he moved to Anfield.

Don't be sorry, I was Adam's most vociferous supporter when that garbage was being levelled at him last year. Lovely player.

n32

Alan Brazil on TalkSport has said today that Gary Cahill is a done deal in January as a replacement for Vidic. Another journalist from the north west said something similar on Off the Ball on Thursday night. I know its TalkSport but what do people think of this potential deal? It could be a case of defensive cover being easier to acquire than midfield cover. Cahill to cover CB and Jones to stay in midfeld?

I ll believe when I see him standing next to SAF with a red jersey on him

clubberlang12

To be fair to Jones, he has played extremely well where ever Sir Alex has asked him to play, be it centre-half, full-back or in midfield. But in my opinion this guy will not be a future United midfielder. The reason....................because he could quite possibly be one of the best centre halves in the world in the next 5 years. And when we factor in his current age that is a frightingly beautiful thing. At the moment he is more than capable of playing in midfield, but to be fair, the opposition so far hasn't being world class. It is of no harm either for him to be playing there as it will improve his game further as well as getting game time.

n32

baz2009 wrote: »

Guardian chalkboard of his passing attached.

Carrick wouldne get half the stick he gets if people actually watched his performances instead of watching him with their mind made up that he s not up to it. He contributes a lot to our defensive stability, watch the amount of interceptions he makes around our box

conno16

baz2009 wrote: »

Guardian chalkboard of his passing attached.

confirms everything i've ever stated about carrick
someone should tell the plank that he works in the entertainment business

conno16

wenger will be gutted if cahill signs for united

SlickRic

Ordinary man wrote: »

Did he start for england because of their lack of midfield options?

yes.

plus, he's an excellent footballer, one of the best young ones England have produced.

but, ideally, i don't think he'd be played at CM.

if you think he would be, fair enough. but until Fletcher got ill, along with Cleverly and Anderson being out, and Giggs being really the only other viable option but being too old to play all the time...Jones wasn't playing there regularly by any means. he'd been played at CB and RB far more, bar the Liverpool game, where he was deployed to help stop us. that wasn't a normal Utd lineup that day.

i mean come on, before his England debut, he'd barely played for Utd at CM. England have few genuine top class options in midfield.

lordgoat

conno16 wrote: »

confirms everything i've ever stated about carrick is wrong.

fyp

keane2097

SlickRic wrote: »

but, ideally, i don't think he'd be played at CM.

if you think he would be, fair enough.

Not ignorant enough then?

SlickRic

keane2097 wrote: »

Not ignorant enough then?

he's in there because of the lack of options.

that's pretty clear.

he's played his way now into perhaps being 1st choice by the time anyone else gets fit.

but if all those players are fit, he doesn't get to play there regularly to start with, but he's such a good footballer, and so versatile, that he can do what he's done.

VW 1

SlickRic wrote: »

yes.

plus, he's an excellent footballer, one of the best young ones England have produced.

but, ideally, i don't think he'd be played at CM.

if you think he would be, fair enough. but until Fletcher got ill, along with Cleverly and Anderson being out, and Giggs being really the only other viable option but being too old to play all the time...Jones wasn't playing there regularly by any means. he'd been played at CB and RB far more, bar the Liverpool game, where he was deployed to help stop us. that wasn't a normal Utd lineup that day.

i mean come on, before his England debut, he'd barely played for Utd at CM. England have few genuine top class options in midfield.

You argue that England have few genuine top class options in midfield. But surely their options would extend further than a 19 year old CB who had played 1 or 2 games in midfield?

He was put in there to do a man marking job and didnt look out of place. Granted the result didnt reflect the dominance Spain showed in the match, but he did ok for a kid, right?

Genuinely think that in time he will be a box to box midfielder and not a CB, based on the fact that the potential he is showing in CM so early in his deployment there is not what you would expect from a youngster who has been used to playing at CB all the time.

I dont really recall much from his time at Blackburn, was he forced to be more defensive minded and disciplined or was he as cavalier in the position now? If his natural instincts are to get forward, get on the ball, demand the ball, look to score, look to make forward runs and passes, why harness that? Let him learn the skills properly and be a midfielder, rather than curb his instincts and take away the qualities that make him so great.

conno16

Steve Kean has had a big influence on his career to date.
just hope that if Kean moves to a big club that he doesn't come back for jonesy.
just like when we lost ronaldo to real.

SlickRic

conno; PM'd and warned.

everyone else, stop rising to it, and get on with posting about Utd.

thanks.

dahat

Fulham away,tricky game lads...........Getting out of here with a 1-0 will do me the finest i tell ya..
Valencia will surely start after his performance the weekend..

Blatter

keane2097 wrote: »

Phil Jones doesn't look even slightly like his "natural position" is a centre-back. Why do people keep saying this? I know it's repeated ad nauseum in the media but it's the same garbage we heard about Jack Rodwell a few years ago who is clearly a natural box to box midfielder.

I've seen a couple of interviews with Jones(one fairly recently) and he is very adamant that he wants to be a centre back in the future and sees himself at his best there. Also SAF has said that he sees his future at CB.

So I guess we can take from that that his ''natural'' position is centre back unless he's convinced himself otherwise recently, which I doubt.

Corvo

Jesus I hate Fulham away. Tiny ground, closed in on the players, always a tough fixture and have a history of either getting a good result or getting a good result and driving Rooney crazy.

They have enough height to stop you creating chances from set-pieces and enough muscle to kick lumps out of you ala Stoke. Then you have that weasel Clint Dempsey, who is more than capable of opening us up.

Would love to see Valencia start, along with Jones and Chico. Get three points here and we are on quite a nice run, which should keep the pressure up on City, who's fixtures are looking a lot tougher. As I said the other day, City are playing out their skins, but we are winning and not even taking half our chances.

2 points out at Christmas? I would take that all day long.

Samich

Damn City anyways and they're goodness!! I just don't see City not winning any game they play. They just have so many quality players. Hopefully a few dropped points by them and we can begin our post christmas form.

Carricks goal was unreal too. Was almost like the goal he almost scored for spurs v arsenal a few years ago.

Corvo

Samich wrote: »

Damn City anyways and they're goodness!! I just don't see City not winning any game they play. They just have so many quality players. Hopefully a few dropped points by them and we can begin our post christmas form.

Carricks goal was unreal too. Was almost like the goal he almost scored for spurs v arsenal a few years ago.

If City get through their tough Christmas period, I will be worried. But I can see them dropping at least 5 points come the end of January, especially with a lot of other ties coming up (Carling Cup x2, Europa League etc)

They looked distinctly average against Chelsea at times, and you can see that once Silva is taken out the game, a lot of their bite is gone aswell.

Your Airbag

Griffin1988 wrote: »

Jesus I hate Fulham away. Tiny ground, closed in on the players, always a tough fixture and have a history of either getting a good result or getting a good result and driving Rooney crazy.

Speaking of which, does anyone have a breakdown of which Utd games are live over the Christmas period?

Sky have three games this week, none of which are UTD. Sun Jan 22 Arsenal v Man United is the next time we are on Sky. How are we for games with Setanta and ESPN?

Actually I remember this time last year Setanta were doing a free 3 month trial, which I signed up for, the only catch was a 10 euro disconnection fee at the end of the three months. I wonder is this still happening and do they have me on record?

Blatter

I know Sky are showing our match with Newcastle on Jan 4th.

bullvine

Is Cahill out of contract in the summer?, if so it will probably be a cheap enough deal! Thats if it happens.

VW 1

I know I have probably been one of the more vocal in this thread calling for Jones to be a long term midfielder.

If the long term plan for him is to be a CB, I just cannot see the sense in spending a penny on Cahill.

Our situation defensively as it stands is that we have 5 players who are fulltime CB's.

Due to injuries to the twins, and our injury crisis in midfield, only three of these have been regularly available for selection at CB.

Add to this Vidic's injury, and we are left with Rio and Evans, with Smalling and Jones to be called upon if one of these two is injured/out of form.

If we add Cahill, how on earth are we going to keep 6 CB's happy come next August when everyone is fit and fighting for a place.

No matter how cheap the deal, it doesnt make sense to me unless SAF is planning on a departure from the backline. Many have/had touted Rio as having lost it (which he has refuted bar the City game in which everyone was bad) or Evans (which again imo he has shown a return to his form of two seasons ago, he has been imperious in the last three games).

Signing Cahill stinks of panic buying, something SAF doesnt do (unless a loan deal a lá Larsson) and it will only create a long term unbalance of CB's in the squad. I just cant find it logical that it is a deal the club will be considering.

Corvo

Your Airbag wrote: »

Sky have three games this week, none of which are UTD. Sun Jan 22 Arsenal v Man United is the next time we are on Sky. How are we for games with Setanta and ESPN?

Is this for real? More than a month until we are on Sky again? Jesus Christ I wish I knew that before I paid up this month. Robbing b*stards.

We are on ESPN on the 31/12 v Blackburn. Thats the next game for that station. God only knows with Setanta.

Your Airbag

homerjay2005 wrote: »

jaysus, just when i thought this place was getting gimp free :mad::mad::mad:

people should just ignore him, those who feed the trool are just as bad.

A trool is for life not just for Christmas

Blatter wrote: »

I know Sky are showing our match with Newcastle on Jan 4th.

My bad, missed that one. It looks like www.livefootyonline.com may have to an option. I hate watching streams though.

Jax Teller

Am sure we will be on liveonlinefooty This week .

Prob be dragged out Xmas shopping though

Your Airbag

Griffin1988 wrote: »

Is this for real? More than a month until we are on Sky again? Jesus Christ I wish I knew that before I paid up this month. Robbing b*stards.

We are on ESPN on the 31/12 v Blackburn. Thats the next game for that station. God only knows with Setanta.

No, my mistake, we are on Sky for Newcastle away Jan 4th.

Pro. F

keane2097 wrote: »

Phil Jones doesn't look even slightly like his "natural position" is a centre-back. Why do people keep saying this? I know it's repeated ad nauseum in the media but it's the same garbage we heard about Jack Rodwell a few years ago who is clearly a natural box to box midfielder.

Jack Rodwell has, and always had, a silky first touch. Phil Jones does not. We should buy Rodwell.

keane2097

Pro. F wrote: »

Jack Rodwell has, and always had, a silky first touch. Phil Jones does not. We should buy Rodwell.

Never stopped Carrick.

MANUTD99

The reaction to Gibson's link to playing in North Korea

VW 1

Pro. F wrote: »

Jack Rodwell has, and always had, a silky first touch. Phil Jones does not. We should buy Rodwell.

Meh, there is more to football than a silky touch or ball control.

If that was the case then all free style footballers would be professional footballers in the PL.

3hn2givr7mx1sc

n32 wrote: »

Carrick wouldne get half the stick he gets if people actually watched his performances instead of watching him with their mind made up that he s not up to it. He contributes a lot to our defensive stability, watch the amount of interceptions he makes around our box

Not sure if you think I posted the chalkboard to make him look bad? Because it's pretty much the opposite! I'm a Carrick fan, think I made in motm in Mitch Connor's player ratings. Was very impressed by him yesterday and a lot over the last month or so.

Pro. F

keane2097 wrote: »

Never stopped Carrick.

Not sure if serious

VW 1 wrote: »

Meh, there is more to football than a silky touch or ball control.

If that was the case then all free style footballers would be professional footballers in the PL.

Of course there is more to football. But a quality first touch and close control is a prerequisite for a top class central midfielder. Trying to make up for the lack of either of those skills in that position is a ridiculous waste of resources. You can do it, but it handicaps the rest of the team.

keane2097

Pro. F wrote: »

Not sure if serious

Of course there is more to football. But a quality first and close control is a prerequisite for a top class central midfielder. Trying to make up for the lack of either of those skills in that position is a ridiculous waste of resources. You can do it, but it handicaps the rest of the team.

idk, I think saying Jones has a bad first touch so will never make it as a midfielder is a bit glib. People seem to think Darren Fletcher was on the road to being a world beater towards the back end of 2009 and he never showed anything like the potential Jones has, had no first touch, no range of passing, less physicality etc etc.

You can reduce anyone to the nuts and bolts of "first touch", "positioning" and other little things like that and make it sound like they're going nowhere, but to me every time I see Jones play he's 2x more talented than anybody else on the pitch, the whole game seems to just rotate with him as an axis.

If he decides he wants to be a CM he'll crush, lack of a silky first touch or not.

DOC09UNAM

keane2097 wrote: »

Pro. F wrote: »

Not sure if serious

Of course there is more to football. But a quality first and close control is a prerequisite for a top class central midfielder. Trying to make up for the lack of either of those skills in that position is a ridiculous waste of resources. You can do it, but it handicaps the rest of the team.

idk, I think saying Jones has a bad first touch so will never make it as a midfielder is a bit glib. People seem to think Darren Fletcher was on the road to being a world beater towards the back end of 2009 and he never showed anything like the potential Jones has, had no first touch, no range of passing, less physicality etc etc.

You can reduce anyone to the nuts and bolts of "first touch", "positioning" and other little things like that and make it sound like they're going nowhere, but to me every time I see Jones play he's 2x more talented than anybody else on the pitch, the whole game seems to just rotate with him as an axis.

If he decides he wants to be a CM he'll crush, lack of a silky first touch or not.

I think he could literally play any position he wanted to at a fairly high level.


He can most definitely play CM if he wants to.

conno16

his versatility may not be a strength folks
consider jonno shea for example
rem how he burst onto the scene at LB
attacking down the flank, with power, some skill and a fearlessness that young manu players tend to have
then slowly but surely saf started using him across the park
soon his skills, presence became diluted
now he is a ghost of the player that first stepped onto the soil at OT

keane2097

conno16 wrote: »

his versatility may not be a strength folks
consider jonno shea for example
rem how he burst onto the scene at LB
attacking down the flank, with power, some skill and a fearlessness that young manu players tend to have
then slowly but surely saf started using him across the park
soon his skills, presence became diluted
now he is a ghost of the player that first stepped onto the soil at OT

I agree with and worry about this.

Ferguson's ability to get the best out of young players is a touch overstated, and there have been a fair few serious talents that have ended up on the scrap heap at OT over the years.

Blatter

keane2097 wrote: »

I agree with and worry about this.

Ferguson's ability to get the best out of young players is a touch overstated, and there have been a fair few serious talents that have ended up on the scrap heap at OT over the years.

Out of interest, do you reckon Rooney would be even a better player now had we played him more centrally since he's been at the club?

I never liked the amount of times he was shunted out wide for us although understood it at the time.

Pro. F

keane2097 wrote: »

idk, I think saying Jones has a bad first touch so will never make it as a midfielder is a bit glib. People seem to think Darren Fletcher was on the road to being a world beater towards the back end of 2009 and he never showed anything like the potential Jones has, had no first touch, no range of passing, less physicality etc etc.

People are clueless. Yes Fletcher was doing a job for us, but he was never on the way to being world class. Our team always would have benefited from having an actual top quality cm in there in place of him. I was happy enough for the team to make do in the past but I am beyond fed up with it now.

Two CMs who are quality on the ball is better than one. The central midfielder who brings a good work rate and attitude is not as good as the central midfielder who brings a good workrate and attitude plus an ability to dictate possession. We should aim for the best, especially when it is so simple to achieve. There are oodles of quality central midfielders out there, there always has been. There is no need for us to make do.

keane2097 wrote: »

You can reduce anyone to the nuts and bolts of "first touch", "positioning" and other little things like that and make it sound like they're going nowhere, but to me every time I see Jones play he's 2x more talented than anybody else on the pitch, the whole game seems to just rotate with him as an axis.

If he decides he wants to be a CM he'll crush, lack of a silky first touch or not.

You've seen him impress in that position against absolute dross (he did not impress against Liverpool). It's not over analysing to say that quality on the ball is important for a central midfielder. It's like finishing ability for a centre forward. Why on earth should you try to make do without it?

When we are playing the top level teams we need every advantage we can get. Make shift central midfielders who lack a very basic skill set for the position have been holding us back for years.

And to cut off the canned response that I know somebody will post - Yes I know we have been successful, think how much more successful we could have been with a quality centre midfield.

Ordinary man

Pro. F wrote: »

People are clueless. Yes Fletcher was doing a job for us, but he was never on the way to being world class. Our team always would have benefited from having an actual top quality cm in there in place of him. I was happy enough for the team to make do in the past but I am beyond fed up with it now.

Two CMs who are quality on the ball is better than one. The central midfielder who brings a good work rate and attitude is not as good as the central midfielder who brings a good workrate and attitude plus an ability to dictate possession. We should aim for the best, especially when it is so simple to achieve. There are oodles of quality central midfielders out there, there always has been. There is no need for us to make do.



You've seen him impress in that position against absolute dross (he did not impress against Liverpool). It's not over analysing to say that quality on the ball is important for a central midfielder. It's like finishing ability for a centre forward. Why on earth should you try to make do without it?

When we are playing the top level teams we need every advantage we can get. Make shift central midfielders who lack a very basic skill set for the position have been holding us back for years.

And to cut off the canned response that I know somebody will post - Yes I know we have been successful, think how much more successful we could have been with a quality centre midfield.

Can you name these quality midfielders? Not aimed at you personally but i hate when people post up saying we need this kind of player or that but never throw names out there

keane2097

Blatter wrote: »

Out of interest, do you reckon Rooney would be even a better player now had we played him more centrally since he's been at the club?

I never liked the amount of times he was shunted out wide for us although understood it at the time.

100%

Rooney is now a very good player who occasionally courts greatness, when he potentially could have been more by now. I still think he could transition upward, at times he's majestic, but there's no doubt he's been stunted. The evidence was there for all to see the season after Ronaldo left and he played up front on his own, he was just a fucking boss.

He's also most definitely stymied by our lack of a decent creative midfielder.

keane2097

Pro. F wrote: »

People are clueless. Yes Fletcher was doing a job for us, but he was never on the way to being world class. Our team always would have benefited from having an actual top quality cm in there in place of him. I was happy enough for the team to make do in the past but I am beyond fed up with it now.

Two CMs who are quality on the ball is better than one. The central midfielder who brings a good work rate and attitude is not as good as the central midfielder who brings a good workrate and attitude plus an ability to dictate possession. We should aim for the best, especially when it is so simple to achieve. There are oodles of quality central midfielders out there, there always has been. There is no need for us to make do.

You've seen him impress in that position against absolute dross (he did not impress against Liverpool). It's not over analysing to say that quality on the ball is important for a central midfielder. It's like finishing ability for a centre forward. Why on earth should you try to make do without it?

When we are playing the top level teams we need every advantage we can get. Make shift central midfielders who lack a very basic skill set for the position have been holding us back for years.

And to cut off the canned response that I know somebody will post - Yes I know we have been successful, think how much more successful we could have been with a quality centre midfield.

You never say anything that doesn't make sense, so obv the above is all headnod.gif as far as I'm concerned, I just think the physical prowess Jones has makes him capable of being the swashbuckling, box-to-box throwback to Roy Keane we've all been crying about for years.

Jones + Cleverly = Keane + Modric imo

*swoon*

The_Kew_Tour

Am I only person who thinks Jones first touch is good

ScummyMan

keane2097 wrote: »

You never say anything that doesn't make sense, so obv the above is all headnod.gif as far as I'm concerned, I just think the physical prowess Jones has makes him capable of being the swashbuckling, box-to-box throwback to Roy Keane we've all been crying about for years.

Jones + Cleverly = Keane + Modric imo

*swoon*

Ah pull yourself together, Jones + Cleverly isnt in the same league as Keane + Modric, at least not yet.

keane2097

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Am I only person who thinks Jones first touch is good

It's not something that I've really been aware of at any stage so I can't imagine it's terrible anyway.

conno16

would jones suffice in midfield if we had someone like modric or even pirlo as i mentioned earlier?

keane2097

Man.UnitedLad wrote: »

Ah pull yourself together, Jones + Cleverly isnt in the same league as Keane + Modric, at least not yet.

Seriously?

I'm going to start a gold star club for people who do an exceptional job of stating the obvious on the internet.

Inaugural member, MandotUnitedLad, congratulations.

keane2097

conno16 wrote: »

would jones suffice in midfield if we had someone like modric or even pirlo as i mentioned earlier?

I think he would.

Blatter

http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11667/7387489/United-have-held-Gaitan-talks-

Gaitan's agent now saying there has been contact between United and Benfica. Far too much speculation for this not to be true.