Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Blatter

VW 1 wrote: »

I never really understood the hype at all regarding Carroll, I genuinely thought it was a joke on deadline day when my mate was texting me with the updates on how high the bids were going. Sure he is big and can score with his head but he isnt prolific by any means with either his head or that "left boot" we hear bigged up so much. And its not as if his link up play is out of this world either.

Given a straight choice between him and Danny I would have Danny every day of the week, all
money aside. I wonder how pool fans would feel about that.

I think he's better with the ball at his feet than people give him credit for albeit he's nothing special in that regard. It was definitely madness paying £35M for him though, I don't think he'll ever become good enough to justify that fee although I can see him becoming a very good player.

I'd agree that there's no way I'd have him ahead of Welbeck. Welbeck is actually savage in the air, his last 6 PL goals have all been headers. His link up play can be excellent aswell.

Pity he got injured, would have liked to see how he'd progress with another few games under his belt.

redzerdrog

Predalien wrote: »

VW 1 wrote: »

Sure he is big and can score with his head but he isnt prolific by any means with either his head or that "left boot" we hear bigged up so much. And its not as if his link up play is out of this world either.

Given a straight choice between him and Danny I would have Danny every day of the week, all money aside. I wonder how pool fans would feel about that.

I think Carroll is pretty rubbish with his head!.

So much fail
Prob the only part of carrolls game that ya can not critisise he is a beast in the air

Ulysses Gaze

Blatter wrote: »

I think he's better with the ball at his feet than people give him credit for albeit he's nothing special in that regard. It was definitely madness paying £35M for him though, I don't think he'll ever become good enough to justify that fee although I can see him becoming a very good player.

I'd agree that there's no way I'd have him ahead of Welbeck. Welbeck is actually savage in the air, his last 6 PL goals have all been headers. His link up play can be excellent aswell.

Pity he got injured, would have liked to see how he'd progress with another few games under his belt.

I'd agree with this on Carroll.

Maybe a panic buy to appease the fans on selling Torres. They could have just netted Suarez and had the same results.

Hindsight is 20/20 though and Carroll still may come good - although I don't think he'll ever be world class.

Backstreet Moyes

Vanbis wrote: »

Not the biggest fan of Welbeck but he fully deserves his chance having scored two goals and a super assist. I'm starting to like him the more i see and i hope he gets his fair share of games this season. Unlucky with the injury too. I think he would've scored a couple of more yesterday had he stayed on.

I respect its your opinion but im just wondering what makes you not a big fan of Wellbeck, i can see you rate him but dont know why your not a big fan im very excited about him. He was brilliant for the reserves and the same last year ask Sunderland fans about him. He has started this year with 2 goals and 1 assist in 2 games. I think he is already a good player and potentially a great player. He has everything to his game imo. The only thing is he is not ruthless in front of goal but training with Owen, Chico and Rooney wont do any harm to improve on that. Maybe its because he is not selfish enough but that will come.

VW 1

redzerdrog wrote: »

So much fail
Prob the only part of carrolls game that ya can not critisise he is a beast in the air

Maybe my opinion that he is less effective than I expect with his head is that defenders concentrate so much of their attention on stopping him at set pieces. Or maybe it will just take time for the partnership with Downing and whoever you play on the right (Hendo/Kuyt/Suarez) to come to fruition with regard to crosses being put on his head.

Mitch Connor

Personally I think Carrol will be a very good striker for Liverpool. It might take him a long time to justify his price tag, he may never truly do it - but I still reckon he will be a very good player for Liverpool if you simply forget about the price tag.

He is very good in the air, he is very strong, deceptively fast and a rocket of a shot on him. Things haven't been going great for him, clearly, but he will come good imo.

jaykay74

Just thinking there, Fergies heaviest defeats as a Utd manager. I remember 5-0 away to Newcastle I think when Albert chipped Schmeichel. Any others ? Any other 5s or 6s ? Think Southampton got 6 once to Utds 2 or 3.

Blatter

jaykay74 wrote: »

Just thinking there, Fergies heaviest defeats as a Utd manager. I remember 5-0 away to Newcastle I think when Albert chipped Schmeichel. Any others ? Any other 5s or 6s ?

There's not too many. A couple of 4-1 defeats to City and Middlesbrough. Chelsea beat us 3-0 a couple of times, Fulham done us in 3-0. Obviously the 4-0 at West Ham last year.

They're the heaviest defeats I can think of atm besides the Newcastle one. Did Spurs give us a hiding at the Lane before?

Johner

5-0 to us at the Bridge, I remember Nicky Butt getting sent off and Jody Morris scored.

jaykay74

Blatter wrote: »

There's not too many. A couple of 4-1 defeats to City and Middlesbrough. Chelsea beat us 3-0 a couple of times, Fulham done us in 3-0. Obviously the 4-0 at West Ham last year.

They're the heaviest defeats I can think of atm besides the Newcastle one. Did Spurs give us a hiding at the Lane before?

Forgot the 5-1 game away to City! The Spurs hammering I think was by 4. It was on the box around new years, Armstrong got a hattrick I think. There'll be a few 4's like the pool game a while back but 5 or 6 is rare.

Sgt Pepper 64

Johner wrote: »

5-0 to us at the Bridge, I remember Nicky Butt getting sent off and Jody Morris scored.

And did that stupid air trumpet thing.

And then promptly disappeared!

Even Chris (Torres) Sutton scored!

(And then promptly disappeared!)

jaykay74

Johner wrote: »

5-0 to us at the Bridge, I remember Nicky Butt getting sent off and Jody Morris scored.

Vaguely ring a bell alright. I try to forget those ones

elvis jones

Second team based on those who didn't start yesterday, not bad at all

LINDERGARD,

RAPHEAL, RIO, VIDIC, FABIO,

VALENCIA, FLETCHER, PARK, GIGGS, C

HERNANDEZ , BERB

On the beach before you put in 3 youngsters.............KUSZCZAK, CARRICK, GIBSON, DIOUF

Blatter

Who's Rapheal?

VW 1

elvis jones wrote: »

Second team based on those who didn't start yesterday, not bad at all

LINDERGARD,

RAPHEAL, RIO, VIDIC, FABIO,

VALENCIA, FLETCHER, PARK, GIGGS, C

HERNANDEZ , BERB

On the beach before you put in 3 youngsters.............KUSZCZAK, CARRICK, GIBSON, DIOUF

Starting Park in the middle of a 4 man midfield ahead of Carrick...

Really?

It is a very strong 11 to be able to put out as a second team all the same.

jaykay74

Blatter wrote: »

Who's Rapheal?

Teenage mutant hero turtle, hero in a half shell

JimsAlterEgo

elvis jones wrote: »

Second team based on those who didn't start yesterday, not bad at all

LINDERGARD,

RAPHEAL, RIO, VIDIC, FABIO,

VALENCIA, FLETCHER, PARK, GIGGS, C

HERNANDEZ , BERB

On the beach before you put in 3 youngsters.............KUSZCZAK, CARRICK, GIBSON, DIOUF

kept injury free I would back that team to finish in the top 10

elvis jones

Blatter wrote: »

Who's Rapheal?

I can't spell........... if thats the most you can complain about i'm fine it with it then:)

elvis jones

VW 1 wrote: »

Starting Park in the middle of a 4 man midfield ahead of Carrick...

Really?

It is a very strong 11 to be able to put out as a second team all the same.

Ya, i'd personally have Carrick selling beer at half time to keep him busy.

But it now shows the strength and depth in the squad.........i hope the B teams gets Leeds in the League Cup:D

Headshot

jaykay74 wrote: »

Teenage mutant hero turtle, hero in a half shell

turtle power !

sorry I couldnt resist

Mitch Connor

elvis jones wrote: »

I can't spell........... if thats the most you can complain about i'm fine it with it then:)

I'd have Carrick or Giggs in the centre for Park - but I get your point. We have a strong squad, and I always say it is your squad that wins the league, not the first choice 11.

You also forgot about Owen.

Eathrin

elvis jones wrote: »

Second team based on those who didn't start yesterday, not bad at all

LINDERGARD,

RAPHEAL, RIO, VIDIC, FABIO,

VALENCIA, FLETCHER, PARK, GIGGS, C

HERNANDEZ , BERB

On the beach before you put in 3 youngsters.............KUSZCZAK, CARRICK, GIBSON, DIOUF

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

kept injury free I would back that team to finish in the top 10

Most of that squad was part of the team that won the title last year. Top 10 would be underrating this team. 4th place I think.

elvis jones

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I'd have Carrick or Giggs in the centre for Park - but I get your point. We have a strong squad, and I always say it is your squad that wins the league, not the first choice 11.

You also forgot about Owen.

I did indeed. My bad.........:eek:

Jax Teller

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You also forgot about Owen.

Macheda & Diouf too

Vanbis

Anyone else think that Carrick is in danger of getting phased out with Anderson and Cleverely playing well?
I think he signed a new contract towards the end of the last season but sure that means nothing these days only to get a better price if was to be sold.

SK1979

Just back in work after a weeks holidays. What two fantastic performances in the last week.

Yesterday was a bit surreal though wasn't it? Such an open game. When we play like that I actually think Young and Rooney are our key players. Young has been nothing short of amazing since he joined. I know some have criticised his delivery into the box but I actually thought yesterday he was far better. Iirc he put a couple of dangerous balls in and no one was there to finish them off.

The forgotten man at the moment seems to be Valencia, he wasn't even on the bench the past two matches, does that mean he's still injured does anyone know?

A couple of points around the topics derailing the thread there recently. In relation to Welbeck, I will admit I harboured some doubts as to whether he was good enough to start for us but I'll happily admit he's proved me so wrong. He's enthusiasm and movement, along with excellent link up play and finishing make him a really good focal point for our attacks. I do think that Chico suffers a little bit with his technique when we're playing that free flowing style. Also, while he made quite a good percentage of his passes yesterday, I dont think he's shown much vision out there. However, once he gets his fitness back up, I'd fancy him to start scoring goals again.

In relation to De Gea, I was definitely one of his biggest fans and cheerleaders to get him to join. I'm delighted that he has, but he has made a few mistakes so far. Its difficult to accurately analyse him but I think that he might have a small issue in getting himself set for shots (Nicklauski mentioned this briefly earlier too). He does appear to get caught out when players shoot quickly against him. If this is the case, then I would expect it to be picked up by the Eric Steele and the GK coaches and worked on. Aside from that, he's been immense, I absolutely love his distribution and it was great to see all the players rush to congratulate him on the peno save. Again, we have amazing squad unity.

Blatter

Vanbis wrote: »

Anyone else think that Carrick is in danger of getting phased out with Anderson and Cleverely playing well?
I think he signed a new contract towards the end of the last season but sure that means nothing these days only to get a better price if was to be sold.

Phased out as a first team player - yes

Phased out of the club - no, I don't think so. If he's happy to be a squad player, he's a very good option to have.

Mitch Connor

Vanbis wrote: »

Anyone else think that Carrick is in danger of getting phased out with Anderson and Cleverely playing well?
I think he signed a new contract towards the end of the last season but sure that means nothing these days only to get a better price if was to be sold.

One of the journo's on twitter, Darren Can I think, was saying yesterday that United are not looking at selling Carrick at the moment but that he is being phased out by Cleverley and that Cleverley is seen as the long term option in Carrick's position.

Vanbis

Mitch Connor wrote: »

One of the journo's on twitter, Darren Can I think, was saying yesterday that United are not looking at selling Carrick at the moment but that he is being phased out by Cleverley and that Cleverley is seen as the long term option in Carrick's position.

Yeah with the shortage of midfield options available i wouldn't expect him to be sold just yet but maybe in January, alot will depend on the form of Cleverley. No doubt Carrick will get his chance soon enough though. Interesting times ahead.

dahat

Mitch Connor wrote: »

One of the journo's on twitter, Darren Can I think, was saying yesterday that United are not looking at selling Carrick at the moment but that he is being phased out by Cleverley and that Cleverley is seen as the long term option in Carrick's position.

Fair assumption to make though he will be needed this season so not much point selling him just yet.We will have plenty games for all to go round this year

Mitch Connor

dahat wrote: »

Fair assumption to make though he will be needed this season so not much point selling him just yet.We will have plenty games for all to go round this year

interesting that given how well, offensively, the two lads have done, we still have Fletcher and Carrick as first teamers to come in, Giggs is still, obviously, an option there too. Gibson managing to keep hold of his United contract as well. Pogba hype is getting bigger and bigger too.

elvis jones

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

Macheda & Diouf too

Diouf is there...........i was actaully reading Macheda on Twitter, how did i do that:o

elvis jones

Will Berv get the subtle message that he's the 4th choice striker at the club. Wind down the contract for a signing on fee elsewhere

Mitch Connor

elvis jones wrote: »

Will Berv get the subtle message that he's the 4th choice striker at the club. Wind down the contract for a signing on fee elsewhere

although he is out of contract at the end of this season, United have the option of extending his contract through to the end of the following season should they wish to exercise it, so Berbatov doesn't really have that option yet imo.

elvis jones

Mitch Connor wrote: »

although he is out of contract at the end of this season, United have the option of extending his contract through to the end of the following season should they wish to exercise it, so Berbatov doesn't really have that option yet imo.

Option to extend, but does he have to sign said contract or is it just a clause that they can inact ?

Mitch Connor

elvis jones wrote: »

Option to extend, but does he have to sign said contract or is it just a clause that they can inact ?

Just a clause they can inact - he already signed it, in effect.

Blatter

Mitch Connor wrote: »

although he is out of contract at the end of this season, United have the option of extending his contract through to the end of the following season should they wish to exercise it, so Berbatov doesn't really have that option yet imo.

I have a strong suspicion that we will opt NOT to renew it if Berbatov is still with us at the end of the season.

It's still possible(small chance) he may go in this window and if not ge may go in Jsnuary.

Despite what SAF says, I'm sure we would like to offload him but we are struggling to do so for one reason or another.

elvis jones

Would that not have to be done by Dec 31 as he can speak to other clubs on Jan 1 and sign a pre contract agreement ?

Mitch Connor

Blatter wrote: »

I have a strong suspicion that we will opt NOT to renew it if Berbatov is still with us at the end of the season.

It's still possible(small chance) he may go in this window and if not ge may go in Jsnuary.

Despite what SAF says, I'm sure we would like to offload him but we are struggling to do so for one reason or another.

Personally, I said at the beginning of the summer, and throughout the pursuit of Sneijder, that if we signed Sneijder, or another AMC, that Berbatov would be sold.

My thinking was we could for 442:

Nani-Sneijder-Carrick-Young

---

Hernandes-Rooney

With Macheda, Welbeck, Owen providing back up striker options in that formation.

We could also go 451:

---

Carrick--Anderson
Nani

---

Young

---

Sneijder

---

Rooney.

The fact we have not signed Sneijder, or any AMC, means the sale of Berbatov makes less sense when I apply the reasoning I used earlier in the summer. The promotion and current for of Anderson, Cleverley and Welbeck is still making things difficult for Berbatov.

nicklauski

elvis jones wrote: »

Would that not have to be done by Dec 31 as he can speak to other clubs on Jan 1 and sign a pre contract agreement ?

No.

The following January, yes.

Iago

Arsenal could have scored 6 yesterday, I think when Fletcher is fully fit he'll step into midfield instead of Cleverly.

De Gea looks like a fantastic signing, he's going to make some mistakes but I've seen enough already to make me believe that he's going to be incredible. Some of his saves yesterday were world class.

Jones is the new Pallister imo, and I can see him having an extended run in the team. Evans on the other hand continues to be a liability and I think it's time he was moved on to pastures new. Evra continues to go backwards but at least has the potential to get back on form, hopefully he'll realise it.

Young has been brilliant, although I'm still reserving judgement until I see him playing in Europe and against the best teams. He's shown a glimpse of his potential though.

All in all, very positive and better again very entertaining football being played. Long may it continue.

Blatter

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Personally, I said at the beginning of the summer, and throughout the pursuit of Sneijder, that if we signed Sneijder, or another AMC, that Berbatov would be sold.

My thinking was we could for 442:

Nani-Sneijder-Carrick-Young

---

Hernandes-Rooney

With Macheda, Welbeck, Owen providing back up striker options in that formation.

We could also go 451:

---

Carrick--Anderson
Nani

---

Young

---

Sneijder

---

Rooney.

The fact we have not signed Sneijder, or any AMC, means the sale of Berbatov makes less sense when I apply the reasoning I used earlier in the summer. The promotion and current for of Anderson, Cleverley and Welbeck is still making things difficult for Berbatov.

I understand what you're saying about Sneijder, and that makes sense. But at the same time, I just cannot believe SAF could be happy with a 4th choice (at best) striker, on £100,000 a week. It just doesn't make sense. Add it to the fact we seem intent on playing a quick, fast flowing, fluid style. Berbatov simply doesn't suit it.

The only role I see for him is, is as Rooney's back up. I think he could work well behind Chico/Welbeck if Rooney is missing. Again though, all that money for a backup? Doesn't make sense.

Mitch Connor

Blatter wrote: »

I understand what you're saying about Sneijder, and that makes sense. But at the same time, I just cannot believe SAF could be happy with a 4th choice (at best) striker, on £100,000 a week. It just doesn't make sense. Add it to the fact we seem intent on playing a quick, fast flowing, fluid style. Berbatov simply doesn't suit it.

The only role I see for him is, is as Rooney's back up. I think he could work well behind Chico/Welbeck if Rooney is missing. Again though, all that money for a backup? Doesn't make sense.

At this stage, if we did manage to sell Berbatov for, say, 10million, who are we going to get in? We'd have to get in someone as Rooney, Welbeck, Chico is not enough and I don't trust any of Macheda, Diouf or Owen over a long period of time at this stage. I don't see what potential signing we could get in before Wednesday - certainly can't think of a player in England that would fit the bill. Gyan maybe?

EDIT: Gyan would prob cost more than we would sell Berbatov for and be on decent wages himself. We'd have to go with a younger striker - but we may as well stick with Kiko and Owen at that rate.

I just don't see any point in selling Berbatov right now unless we are looking to bring in a top stiker (or AMC) that will come into the first team - we certainly wouldn't get a 4th choice striker of any real ability.

n32

I think Evans has serious potential to be a great centre half but he needs to sort out his concentration levels. Too often he ll spoil a good performance by making stupid errors. The concession of the penalty was similar to the one he conceded v Liverpool last year to allow them back into the game. As well as that he also let RVP unmarked in the 2nd half when De Gea made a wonderful save to keep it at 3-1. He doesnt have the footballing ability of Jones or Smalling but he has shown too much potential to be discarded. He can also do a job at LB like he did v Chelsea last year. PLayers who can cover multiple positions are very valuable when the games start taking their toll mid season.
The midfield is still crying out to be added to. Creatively its miles ahead of last season but in the 1st 3 games we ve looked like being over run at times by mediocre opposition. That said though I prefer looking at Cleverly and Anderson than Carrick and Fletcher. If we were to add a bit of bite without compromising the creativity we d be very formidable.
Ashley young is showing up Nani's shortcomings big time. Playing the ball to young seems to be the priority at the moment. The way he links up with Rooney is great. Compare the way they link up and the timing of Youngs passes to Rooney compared with the way Nani tries to play in Rooney, no comparison. SAF has got it spot on again with his transfers this summer. Chico and Smalling last year: Young, De Gea and the Panzer this year!

Blatter

Mitch Connor wrote: »

At this stage, if we did manage to sell Berbatov for, say, 10million, who are we going to get in? We'd have to get in someone as Rooney, Welbeck, Chico is not enough and I don't trust any of Macheda, Diouf or Owen over a long period of time at this stage. I don't see what potential signing we could get in before Wednesday - certainly can't think of a player in England that would fit the bill. Gyan maybe?

EDIT: Gyan would prob cost more than we would sell Berbatov for and be on decent wages himself. We'd have to go with a younger striker - but we may as well stick with Kiko and Owen at that rate.

I just don't see any point in selling Berbatov right now unless we are looking to bring in a top stiker (or AMC) that will come into the first team - we certainly wouldn't get a
4th choice striker of any real ability.

I think we'd be fine without replacing him. We'd have Rooney, Chico, Welbeck and Owen as the senior strikers. If we had a striker crisis, we could easily get away with playing one of them in a 4-3-3 given the abundance of quality wingers we have. Young can play in the hole aswell. If it didn't work out we could buy a replacement for him in January.

Selling Berbatov now wouldn't be a big deal IMO and would get him off the wage bill.

Mitch Connor

Blatter wrote: »

I think we'd be fine without replacing him. We'd have Rooney, Chico, Welbeck and Owen as the senior strikers. If we had a striker crisis, we could easily get away with playing one of them in a 4-3-3 given the abundance of quality wingers we have. Young can play in the hole aswell. If it didn't work out we could buy a replacement for him in January.

Selling Berbatov now wouldn't be a big deal IMO and would get him off the wage bill.

Well then the argument is simply whether Fergie would prefer the player or the money - and I reckon Fergie would prefer the player. 100k a week isn't going to doing anything on the pitch; just ask an Arsenal fan.

Kylo Ren

Arsenal are giving all fans who traveled to OT yesterday a free ticket to another away game. Fair play to them, really nice gesture.

Blatter

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Well then the argument is simply whether Fergie would prefer the player or the money - and I reckon Fergie would prefer the player. 100k a week isn't going to doing anything on the pitch; just ask an Arsenal fan.

It could be an extra £5.2M wages + ~ £10M transfer fee towards a new player next Summer. Good money to save on a player that SAF may feel he doesn't need at all.

Mitch Connor

Blatter wrote: »

It could be an extra £5.2M wages + ~ £10M transfer fee towards a new player next Summer. Good money to save on a player that SAF may feel he doesn't need at all.

If you want to look at it that way yeah - but I reckon Fergie would prefer to have Berbatov now rather than the money in a years time. Berbatov was key to our title win last season, don't forget that. Sure, I don't see him as first choice anymore, but he can and still will do a job for us and the odd goal scored could be the difference between winning and losing trophies - and that is more important to Fergie than the saving in wages.

n32

Keno 92 wrote: »

Arsenal are giving all fans who traveled to OT yesterday a free ticket to another away game. Fair play to them, really nice gesture.

Maybe it ll be City away where they ll get another spanking! In fairness the Arsenal fanse were excellent yesterday. They were very vocal until the 7th goal went in which took some doing.