Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

homerjay2005

love this sorta s*it shalke away/

its a shalke fan recoding the united fans just after the giggs goal and keeping the camera running until rooney scores....

good times....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM605JbjDsk

Liam O

What does it take for people to show a bit of optimism around here?

United beat ARSENAL 8-2 at the weekend. That's Arsenal and they may have been weakened but United have dropped points to a lot of worse teams last season.

To all the people lauding Sneijder as the saviour I have a quick question. Where would he have played? Would he have played the position Cleverly has taken up and done all the donkey work that Cleverly's been doing? Would he play in Rooney's position and United play a more defensive formation with only 1 up top?

I take it everyone is happy with how good Hernandez looked last season and how well Welbeck and Cleverly have started this season? Well if Sneijder signed then I'd say we'd all be seeing a lot less of them and their development would be seriously stunted.

Basically, Fergie is taking a chance with youth, if it doesn't work out so be it, he tried to sign Nasri but Nasri went to the money and with Cleverly starting so well I can see why he is happy to keep it the way it is.

The team have maximum points from the first 3 games which is an improvement over the last few seasons and beat Arsenal 8-2 ffs, that's hardly a disaster and even if it doesn't work out this season the team can only get better and there is money to spend next Summer/January to change things.

United aren't a team that play through the middle anyway most of the time, it's normally a quick ball out to the wingers and let them do their business and with the best set of wingers in the league it's a legitimate style.

With Anderson and Cleverly well capable of getting forward and joining the attack it should be fine, then Giggs has looked sharp when he's come on, Carrick is still a very good player despite what people say, Fletcher is to come back, Park is a good workhorse in a 3 man midfield and Gibson was reasonably impressive in the closing games of last season and not as shít as people keep peddling.

Absolute shambles I know :rolleyes:

The_Kew_Tour

homerjay2005 wrote: »

love this sorta s*it shalke away/

its a shalke fan recoding the united fans just after the giggs goal and keeping the camera running until rooney scores....

good times....

That's why I love going to away games..

Just the feeling of being outnumbered makes fans roar and sing louder.

Imo United away fans are one the best in world.

DM_7

Well said Liam O.

Did ye see the Mick harford story on manutd.com. Hard to imagine United playing that way, even 20 years ago.

Blatter

What Liam O said x 1,000

JimsAlterEgo

Liam O wrote: »

What does it take for people to show a bit of optimism around here?

United beat ARSENAL 8-2 at the weekend. That's Arsenal and they may have been weakened but United have dropped points to a lot of worse teams last season.

To all the people lauding Sneijder as the saviour I have a quick question. Where would he have played? Would he have played the position Cleverly has taken up and done all the donkey work that Cleverly's been doing? Would he play in Rooney's position and United play a more defensive formation with only 1 up top?

I take it everyone is happy with how good Hernandez looked last season and how well Welbeck and Cleverly have started this season? Well if Sneijder signed then I'd say we'd all be seeing a lot less of them and their development would be seriously stunted.

Basically, Fergie is taking a chance with youth, if it doesn't work out so be it, he tried to sign Nasri but Nasri went to the money and with Cleverly starting so well I can see why he is happy to keep it the way it is.

The team have maximum points from the first 3 games which is an improvement over the last few seasons and beat Arsenal 8-2 ffs, that's hardly a disaster and even if it doesn't work out this season the team can only get better and there is money to spend next Summer/January to change things.

United aren't a team that play through the middle anyway most of the time, it's normally a quick ball out to the wingers and let them do their business and with the best set of wingers in the league it's a legitimate style.

With Anderson and Cleverly well capable of getting forward and joining the attack it should be fine, then Giggs has looked sharp when he's come on, Carrick is still a very good player despite what people say, Fletcher is to come back, Park is a good workhorse in a 3 man midfield and Gibson was reasonably impressive in the closing games of last season and not as shít as people keep peddling.

Absolute shambles I know :rolleyes:

what I was trying to say but only better

SlickRic

i say keep going with the negativity.



God help you all if and when you lose a game.

some people will be fit to top themselves i'd imagine.

bucketybuck

Liam O wrote: »

What does it take for people to show a bit of optimism around here?

United beat ARSENAL 8-2 at the weekend. That's Arsenal and they may have been weakened but United have dropped points to a lot of worse teams last season.

To all the people lauding Sneijder as the saviour I have a quick question. Where would he have played? Would he have played the position Cleverly has taken up and done all the donkey work that Cleverly's been doing? Would he play in Rooney's position and United play a more defensive formation with only 1 up top?

I take it everyone is happy with how good Hernandez looked last season and how well Welbeck and Cleverly have started this season? Well if Sneijder signed then I'd say we'd all be seeing a lot less of them and their development would be seriously stunted.

Basically, Fergie is taking a chance with youth, if it doesn't work out so be it, he tried to sign Nasri but Nasri went to the money and with Cleverly starting so well I can see why he is happy to keep it the way it is.

The team have maximum points from the first 3 games which is an improvement over the last few seasons and beat Arsenal 8-2 ffs, that's hardly a disaster and even if it doesn't work out this season the team can only get better and there is money to spend next Summer/January to change things.

United aren't a team that play through the middle anyway most of the time, it's normally a quick ball out to the wingers and let them do their business and with the best set of wingers in the league it's a legitimate style.

With Anderson and Cleverly well capable of getting forward and joining the attack it should be fine, then Giggs has looked sharp when he's come on, Carrick is still a very good player despite what people say, Fletcher is to come back, Park is a good workhorse in a 3 man midfield and Gibson was reasonably impressive in the closing games of last season and not as shít as people keep peddling.

Absolute shambles I know :rolleyes:

This post is only relevant if anybody thought we actually needed Sneijder, or if anybody thought our problem was midfielders getting forward.

The thing is, those weren't our problems. We never needed Sneijder when we already had Rooney, what we needed was a dominant figure in center midfield, somebody both to win the ball and control the pace of the game. We still don't have that.

And for chrissakes, once again somebody is reduced to putting forward Park Ji Sung as a viable option in center midfield. That tells its own story.

Fall_Guy

SlickRic wrote: »

i say keep going with the negativity.



God help you all if and when you lose a game.

some people will be fit to top themselves i'd imagine.

I would think the people that are choosing to overlook the shortcomings that we have in midfield at the moment would be more shocked and "fit to top themselves" than those that are expressing concerns over that area, if and when united lose.

Surely it would only be what the "negative" people would expect to happen at some stage due to how easily some pretty average midfields have at times overran our own midfield already this season?

The_Kew_Tour

Imo we needed a Schweinsteiger then Sneijder.

I am happy with squad and have faith that Fergie knows what he is doing. I think long term things look really good.

However, I do see where Homerjay was coming from when he said we have not signed central midfield player for 4 years.

I can see why people are frustrated at this area when others seem be able buy players at will in this market.

keane2097

Anderson and Cleverly will dominate every team in the EPL this season.

Bringing in a goon like Diarra to stroll around throwing in nasty lunges every now and again is a load of bollocks.

Might look good to the droolers who think you need to smash into people to be a good midfielder, but that "skillset" is close to the bottom of the list in the modern game, and by a mile the easiest to teach to developing players.

Cleverly + Anderson >>>> Diarra + Cleverly/Anderson

Mitch Connor

bucketybuck wrote: »

This post is only relevant if anybody thought we actually needed Sneijder, or if anybody thought our problem was midfielders getting forward.

The thing is, those weren't our problems. We never needed Sneijder when we already had Rooney, what we needed was a dominant figure in center midfield, somebody both to win the ball and control the pace of the game. We still don't have that.

And for chrissakes, once again somebody is reduced to putting forward Park Ji Sung as a viable option in center midfield. That tells its own story.

Exactly.

People also banging on about developing youth rather than buying players. I'm all for developing youth, but just look at Barcelona - best developers of youth around at the moment yet they have bought Mascherano, Alves, Villa, Sanchez and others for big money because they saw players available to improve what they have. It is not an either/or situation. We could have brought someone in without destroying Cleverley's career prospects.

As you say, Park being put forward as a viable option in central midfield is part of the problem, not the solution it claims to be. Same for people mentioned Gibson and even Valencia as viable options here.

Cleverley, Anderson, Carrick and Fletcher are the four senior central midfielders we should be able to rely on, with Giggs being one we can get performances out of (amazingly at this stage!) with good management. I don't think adding another player to that would have been out of the question or a poor move.

However, it is done now, and while I will likely still carp on about it, I will look to the future too. talk at the moment is that Cleverley is taking Carrick's spot, so Carrick could be on the chopping block next summer depending on his and Cleverley's respective performances. Giggs will surely hang up his boots next summer too - meaning out CM's at the club could potentially just be Anderson, Cleverley and Fletcher - with the possibility of Pogba, Tunnicliffe and Morrison.

On paper, and hoping the 3 young lads are ready to play some part (and progress this season as I would like) that is not a bad 6 to pick from, potentially awesome to be honest. If we can get through this season, and Cleverley and Anderson continue to impress and improve, things could work out brilliantly.

The_Kew_Tour

keane2097 wrote: »

Anderson and Cleverly will dominate every team in the EPL this season.

Bringing in a goon like Diarra to stroll around throwing in nasty lunges every now and again is a load of bollocks.

Might look good to the droolers who think you need to smash into people to be a good midfielder, but that "skillset" is close to the bottom of the list in the modern game, and by a mile the easiest to teach to developing players.

Cleverly + Anderson >>>> Diarra + Cleverly/Anderson

Well I rather give one of our younger players a chance then sign him, could not agree more on your post in that aspect.

Amirani

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Imo we needed a Schweinsteiger then Sneijder.

100% agreed.

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

Anderson and Cleverly will dominate every team in the EPL this season.

Bringing in a goon like Diarra to stroll around throwing in nasty lunges every now and again is a load of bollocks.

Might look good to the droolers who think you need to smash into people to be a good midfielder, but that "skillset" is close to the bottom of the list in the modern game, and by a mile the easiest to teach to developing players.

Cleverly + Anderson >>>> Diarra + Cleverly/Anderson

Frankly thats just a kneejerk rosetinted view based on three games in which our center midfield STILL was the teams least effective unit.

There isn't a center midfield pairing in Europe that would be worried at having to compete with Anderson and Cleverly.

SK1979

bucketybuck wrote: »

Frankly thats just a kneejerk rosetinted view based on three games in which our center midfield STILL was the teams least effective unit.

There isn't a center midfield pairing in Europe that would be worried at having to compete with Anderson and Cleverly.

Keane is right for about 90% of our games. Cleverley and Ando will be perfect, and they'll play bloody good football too.

I do think we will struggle against teams who can retain possession well, neither Ando or Clev are particularly great at winning the ball back. Spurs had a few pieces of play against us where we couldn't get the ball, better teams could hurt us. However, we'll always have the option of Fletcher for those games so we'll see.

The_Kew_Tour

bucketybuck wrote: »

Frankly thats just a kneejerk rosetinted view based on three games in which our center midfield STILL was the teams least effective unit.

There isn't a center midfield pairing in Europe that would be worried at having to compete with Anderson and Cleverly.

you could say there is not a midfield in Europe bar Barca that United would be afraid of either though.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

Frankly thats just a kneejerk rosetinted view based on three games in which our center midfield STILL was the teams least effective unit.

There isn't a center midfield pairing in Europe that would be worried at having to compete with Anderson and Cleverly.

How many teams in Europe shit their pants about Carrick and Giggs last year?

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

How many teams in Europe shit their pants about Carrick and Giggs last year?

Very few - but why the hell are we content for that to be the case? Why do we shy away from having a midfield that opposition worry about, along with our frontline and wingers that most likely do scare them? Why persist with a midfield that just does enough or functions well enough to release the ball wide? Central midfield is a weakness and I see no good reason for that to be the case.

bucketybuck

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

you could say there is not a midfield in Europe bar Barca that United would be afraid of either though.

Only because Fergie may feel that he has the personel elsewhere to compensate. He knows he may be able to cover midfield defensive frailties with a superb defense, or take the scoring pressure of them with a superb attacking four. He certainly cannot think that they are actually odds on to dominate the game in centre midfield on their own merits.

You want to know why Anderson and Cleverly will not dominate? Because every opposing manager in Europe who has to face Utd will look at that team and come to the same conclusion.
"Where are Utd weakest? Midfield, so thats where we will focus our attention in an attempt to beat them."
Every manager, from Mourinho to Tony Pulis will be crowding midfield in an attempt to exploit Utds only weak spot, and they will be right to do so. Utd will still win in many EPL games, but come squeaky bum time, this will cost us, and cost us big.

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

How many teams in Europe shit their pants about Carrick and Giggs last year?

Seriously? For real? Absolutely bloody none of them. Yet one injury and we are back to Carrick and Giggs. How on earth is that good enough?

Blatter

Lads does anyone know what Cleverly's injury record is like? I'd be interested to know how many injuries he's had over the last 3 years and what was the extent of them.

Leiva

bucketybuck wrote: »

Seriously? For real? Absolutely bloody none of them. Yet one injury and we are back to Carrick and Giggs. How on earth is that good enough?

In fairness (Europe aside) I wished Giggs wouldn't play against us last season in the PL .

The fooker was on fire .

keane2097

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Very few - but why the hell are we content for that to be the case? Why do we shy away from having a midfield that opposition worry about, along with our frontline and wingers that most likely do scare them? Why persist with a midfield that just does enough or functions well enough to release the ball wide? Central midfield is a weakness and I see no good reason for that to be the case.

The point is exactly what I've said above.

You're crying about optics rather than substance.

A "dominating" midfielder is pretty much just a banger like Mascherano or Diarra or whoever, and the only reason for having one over a pair of dynamic attacking CMs like we have is to make people watching on TV think we're tough.

Our TEAM so far this season has been beyond awesome, it's an issue of pace, interplay and overall balance.

Some of our stuff so far has been as close to perfect as you're going to see, we're playing a style that Barcelona would envy for excitement and we have as backup a CM that strolled into the Champions League final last year.

The idea that we would want a stylistically different midfielder is just utterly bizarre. Most of us were bored to tears watching us last year, all of a sudden we're playing the most ridiculously class style of ball and people think we need to change our approach?

Ye're just being crybabies because we didn't get in the big name player ye thought we would all year. When the tears dry up in a few weeks time ye'll maybe be able to see the wood from the trees that we're doing everything we could have possibly wanted without any Sneijders or wantaways like Modric and Nasri

The_Kew_Tour

bucketybuck wrote: »

Only because Fergie may feel that he has the personel elsewhere to compensate. He knows he may be able to cover midfield defensive frailties with a superb defense, or take the scoring pressure of them with a superb attacking four. He certainly cannot think that they are actually odds on to dominate the game in centre midfield on their own merits.

You want to know why Anderson and Cleverly will not dominate? Because every opposing manager in Europe who has to face Utd will look at that team and come to the same conclusion.
"Where are Utd weakest? Midfield, so thats where we will focus our attention in an attempt to beat them."
Every manager, from Mourinho to Tony Pulis will be crowding midfield in an attempt to exploit Utds only weak spot, and they will be right to do so. Utd will still win in many EPL games, but come squeaky bum time, this will cost us, and cost us big.

See your point there.

I suppose I am in the optimistic group where I believe Ando+Cleverly will come good.

I know every manger will look at our midfield and try to look at ways to really expose it but even Barca have few weak links even if small ones.

Will it cost us big? I am not so sure. While I believe Midfield is biggest area in any team these days, I dont think our midfield is as weak overall as some point out.

My big worry would be do we have the guys to make the impact if we get an injury or two? that be bigger worry for me.

keane2097

bucketybuck wrote: »

Seriously? For real? Absolutely bloody none of them. Yet one injury and we are back to Carrick and Giggs. How on earth is that good enough?

SilverFox261

bucketybuck wrote: »

Frankly thats just a kneejerk rosetinted view based on three games in which our center midfield STILL was the teams least effective unit.

There isn't a center midfield pairing in Europe that would be worried at having to compete with Anderson and Cleverly.

Tbf, United rarely play a 4-4-2 in Europe in big matches. Until Chico's form made him undroppable last season, United nearly always went with Rooney up top on his own. When Chico was playing, Rooney dropped so deep he was nearly a third midfielder in most matches anyway.

If you want to make the midfield pairing combative, you can take out one of the two and put in Fletcher. You'd keep the high tempo aproach, lose some attacking flare but gain some grit in midfield.

Or you could replace both with Fletcher and Carrick to act as a shield for the back 4, with the view that Rooney and the chosen combination of wingers will create enough to get the job done.

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

The point is exactly what I've said above.

You're crying about optics rather than substance.

A "dominating" midfielder is pretty much just a banger like Mascherano or Diarra or whoever, and the only reason for having one over a pair of dynamic attacking CMs like we have is to make people watching on TV think we're tough.

Our TEAM so far this season has been beyond awesome, it's an issue of pace, interplay and overall balance.

Some of our stuff so far has been as close to perfect as you're going to see, we're playing a style that Barcelona would envy for excitement and we have as backup a CM that strolled into the Champions League final last year.

The idea that we would want a stylistically different midfielder is just utterly bizarre. Most of us were bored to tears watching us last year, all of a sudden we're playing the most ridiculously class style of ball and people think we need to change our approach?

Ye're just being crybabies because we didn't get in the big name player ye thought we would all year. When the tears dry up in a few weeks time ye'll maybe be able to see the wood from the trees that we're doing everything we could have possibly wanted without any Sneijders or wantaways like Modric and Nasri :rolleye:

No - I want a midfield that dominates. Barcelona's central midfield dominates - it has a defensive edge in Busquets. I'm not saying we need a Makalele, but I feel we need something.

For me, you are grossly overrating the performances of Anderson and Cleverley (and United in general). A style Barca would envy? BS.

You think Anderson and Cleverley will DOMINATE everyone. Highly unlikely imo, and if that is the basis you are starting from with this argument then it is pointless to be honest.

You seemingly looked at West Brom, Spurs and Arsenal and saw our midfield dominate. I saw an average performance away to West Brom and saw our central midfield do brilliantly offensively but get ran through by a combination of Kranjcar and Livermore against Spurs and a combination of Ramsey and a young lad making his PL debut (i think). If there were ever games Cleveley and Anderson should dominate, those two were it and they simply didn't do it. Again, we looked brilliant when in possession, but the two were ran through and left so much space between themselves and the defence for the oppo forwards to play in. It was, defensively, a weakness.

EDIT: Our team is very good. I'm not saying different. What I am saying is central midfield is clearly the weakest part of our team/squad, which it has been for a good while now, and we are going nothing to address it.

keane2097

I can't deal with this braindead garbage. I'll be back tomoro, maybe somebody can explain this shit to everyone in the meantime, I'm giving myself a headache trying to think down to people here.

Mitch Connor

keane2097 wrote: »

I can't deal with this braindead garbage. I'll be back tomoro, maybe somebody can explain this shit to everyone in the meantime, I'm giving myself a headache trying to think down to people here.

You go on and be insulting to people that disagree with you. I'm done with you from here on out if this is the way you chose to interact.

Blatter

There's no way I can see United playing Cleverly and Anderson in a midfield 2 for Champions League knockout games, especially at home. It would be asking for 2-3 away goals to be scored against us which is something you can't risk happening.

The cornerstone of our great success in the CL over the last 5 years has been largely down to the fact the team has been very good defensively as a unit.

It will be Fletcher/Carrick + one other or back to 3 in midfield, unless both Cleverly and Anderson can improve dramatically defensively.

Nalz

SlickRic wrote: »

i say keep going with the negativity.



God help you all if and when you lose a game.

some people will be fit to top themselves i'd imagine.

tough at the top!

bucketybuck

keane2097 wrote: »

I can't deal with this braindead garbage. I'll be back tomoro, maybe somebody can explain this shit to everyone in the meantime, I'm giving myself a headache trying to think down to people here.

Jesus, is this the level of discourse you are all used to on this board? The internet equivalent of Kevin the Teenager moaning "You just don't understand" and stomping off to his room in a huff?

You make people wait and apply for access just to see that? :rolleyes:

Sirsok

Am i wrong in thinking that Phil Jones could be that midfielder we are going on about? when rafa, vidic and rio come back our defensive options will be stacked with evra fabio smalling and evans in the mix to........and Jones I thought can also fill in as a DM sort of role.....might be better instead of Carrick......ha he could be the Keaneo we have been searchin for, even though we had found one in djemba djemba

Blatter

Sirsok wrote: »

Am i wrong in thinking that Phil Jones could be that midfielder we are going on about? when rafa, vidic and rio come back our defensive options will be stacked with evra fabio smalling and evans in the mix to........and Jones I thought can also fill in as a DM sort of role.....might be better instead of Carrick......ha he could be the Keaneo we have been searchin for, even though we had found one in djemba djemba

In the off chance we play Barcelona again next season, I can see Jones playing in midfield for sure.

Just think how much better off we'd have been with him in midfield in the final rather than Hernandez wasted up front? We probably would have still been beaten, but Barca would have found it a lot more difficult.

homerjay2005

my problem is we are too reliant centrally right now on -

rooney - absolutely world class, no doubt about that, but he spends 2 months at least of each season injured.
anderson - showing immense potential, but this is his 5th season and he is injury proned.
cleverly - good signs, but unproven and i think his performances have been over valued thus far.

welbeck is already out for at least 4-6 weeks and was missing alot of last season, he is injury proned and fergie has said before he has issues with his growth and subsequent development.

Berba and hernandez got 42 goals between them last year. can they match that this year, considering 4 games are gone already and neither was picked as first choice. one will get a chance now that welbeck is injured.

the current regime is fantastic, our squad is excellent, but i think we needed one player in the transfer window to pop out and do something special when the strikers are not in the game (which happens alot in modern football) and our wingers are being man marked. we get little if no goals from CM and its been like that for years.

anderson - scored one goal in the first 7 months of the season.
carrick - didnt score.
fletcher - scored a few at the start and then nothing for 6 or 7 month, most of that time spent out with a mystery virus.

none of these 3 players are exactly massive assists merchants either.

giggs - did he score many goals from CM position, 3, max 4??

can cleverly bridge that gap? weve been lucky with ronaldo hitting 42 goals in 08, rooney hit 34 in 10. as i already said, hernendez and berba hit 42 between them last season, they are making up the slack from CM and that is down to us having top class wingers who are able to provide 30+ assists a season between them.

everything is great right now, but we were talking about moving up a couple of steps and while we did it, i think city, liverpool and chelsea have moved up 3 steps.

SilverFox261

homerjay2005 wrote: »

can cleverly bridge that gap? weve been lucky with ronaldo hitting 42 goals in 08, rooney hit 34 in 10. as i already said, hernendez and berba hit 42 between them last season, they are making up the slack from CM and that is down to us having top class wingers who are able to provide 30+ assists a season between them.

.

But if the wingers are continuously providing that supply, is it not fair to assume that that is the style of play that is being aimed for, and its not just a coincidence?

Blatter

homerjay2005 wrote: »

my problem is we are too reliant centrally right now on -

rooney - absolutely world class, no doubt about that, but he spends 2 months at least of each season injured.
anderson - showing immense potential, but this is his 5th season and he is injury proned.

cleverly - good signs, but unproven and i think his performances have been over valued thus far.

welbeck is already out for at least 4-6 weeks and was missing alot of last season, he is injury proned and fergie has said before he has issues with his growth and subsequent development.

Berba and hernandez got 42 goals between them last year. can they match that this year, considering 4 games are gone already and neither was picked as first choice. one will get a chance now that welbeck is injured.

the current regime is fantastic, our squad is excellent, but i think we needed one player in the transfer window to pop out and do something special when the strikers are not in the game (which happens alot in modern football) and our wingers are being man marked. we get little if no goals from CM and its been like that for years.

anderson - scored one goal in the first 7 months of the season.
carrick - didnt score.
fletcher - scored a few at the start and then nothing for 6 or 7 month, most of that time spent out with a mystery virus.

none of these 3 players are exactly massive assists merchants either.

giggs - did he score many goals from CM position, 3, max 4??

can cleverly bridge that gap? weve been lucky with ronaldo hitting 42 goals in 08, rooney hit 34 in 10. as i already said, hernendez and berba hit 42 between them last season, they are making up the slack from CM and that is down to us having top class wingers who are able to provide 30+ assists a season between them.


everything is great right now, but we were talking about moving up a couple of steps and while we did it, i think city, liverpool and chelsea have moved up 3 steps.

Rooney will hit 25-35 goals this season. Hernandez will get 15-25. Welbeck will get 15-20. Berbatov will get 5-10. Young will get 10-15. Nani will get 10-15. Park will get 5-10. Cleverly and Anderson will get 5-8 each. Fletcher will bag a few, as will Giggs. Valencia is capable of 8-10. Smalling will chip in with a few purely with his height, as will Vidic as he always has done. Macheda, Owen and Diouf could get 8-12 between them.

I see plenty of goals throughout the side. It's not a problem IMO.

keane2097

Mitch Connor wrote: »

You go on and be insulting to people that disagree with you. I'm done with you from here on out if this is the way you chose to interact.

bucketybuck wrote: »

Jesus, is this the level of discourse you are all used to on this board? The internet equivalent of Kevin the Teenager moaning "You just don't understand" and stomping off to his room in a huff?

You make people wait and apply for access just to see that? :rolleyes:

Don't mind me, missed lunch - I'm the ultimate diva when I'm hungry.

Sorry.

Headshot

keane2097 wrote: »

Don't mind me, missed lunch - I'm the ultimate diva when I'm hungry.

Sorry.

you should eat your snickers then

Iago

Blatter wrote: »

In the off chance we play Barcelona again next season, I can see Jones playing in midfield for sure.

Just think how much better off we'd have been with him in midfield in the final rather than Hernandez wasted up front? We probably would have still been beaten, but Barca would have found it a lot more difficult.

You could have built a wall across the centre of the pitch in that game and it wouldn't have helped the midfield.

If we get Barcelona again it'll be Fletcher in there but it won't make a huge difference.

Will I Amnt

Blatter wrote: »

Sirsok wrote: »

Am i wrong in thinking that Phil Jones could be that midfielder we are going on about? when rafa, vidic and rio come back our defensive options will be stacked with evra fabio smalling and evans in the mix to........and Jones I thought can also fill in as a DM sort of role.....might be better instead of Carrick......ha he could be the Keaneo we have been searchin for, even though we had found one in djemba djemba

In the off chance we play Barcelona again next season, I can see Jones playing in midfield for sure.

Just think how much better off we'd have been with him in midfield in the final rather than Hernandez wasted up front? We probably would have still been beaten, but Barca would have found it a lot more difficult.

This is my gripe,why can't we strengthen that centre-midfield with actual centre-midfielders instead of counting on wingers and defenders to slot in and do a job.

Blatter

Iago wrote: »

You could have built a wall across the centre of the pitch in that game and it wouldn't have helped the midfield.

If we get Barcelona again it'll be Fletcher in there but it won't make a huge difference.

Pepe made a massive difference for Madrid when he played in there.

In the 3 games last season when Pepe was in midfield v Barca, the managed one goal.

In the league game, they got a penalty and scored it. That was it.

In the cup game, they were kept scoreless for 120 mins.

In the CL game first leg, they failed to score for the 60 odd minutes while Pepe was on the pitch.

Can Jones do a similar job to Peoe in midfield? Yes, I believe he can.

Would Jonrs playing have kept Barca scoreless in the final? Probably not. Would it have made things alot more difficult for them? Surely.

jambofc

keane2097 wrote: »

Anderson and Cleverly will dominate every team in the EPL this season.

disagree with this 100%
away from home against big teams(chelsea,lverpool etc and better european teams) who will put us under immense pressure and keep the ball a lot better than wba or spurs(not including arse for obvious reasons) tom and ando will not dominate,my main worry is that away from home against strong teams we will adopt our 4-5-1 again and we all saw last season what happened on the road,ive said it before at times against wba,spurs and arse our midfield was bypassed with ease(stats showing that de gea has made the most saves this season proves how teams got through our midfield,amazed that we didnt improve our midfield.
i have huge expectations of tom but he will need to learn quickly really quickly to be considered first choice for big games,ando has impressed me so far but needs to prove to everyone he can do this consistently,fletch if he gets back to himself with ando will be a good combination when tom needs a break but still would have liked to improve our central midfield.
im also worried that when all the hype dies down and the week to week normality kicks in that our new players(who are obviously on cloud nine)start easing of the pedal slightly we wont have that surge of speed and power going forward,it is key to the new system that we play a very high tempo and press the opposition when we dont have possession.

rant nearly over but im gutted hargreaves was let go,if he passed a stringent medical why wasnt he given the chance by us(he is excactley the kind of player we need imo),ah well good luck owen but not to much luck in winning any silverware.

Pro. F

keane2097 wrote: »

Anderson and Cleverly will dominate every team in the EPL this season.

Bringing in a goon like Diarra to stroll around throwing in nasty lunges every now and again is a load of bollocks.

Might look good to the droolers who think you need to smash into people to be a good midfielder, but that "skillset" is close to the bottom of the list in the modern game, and by a mile the easiest to teach to developing players.

Cleverly + Anderson >>>> Diarra + Cleverly/Anderson

You're reducing the argument to ''we don't need a hatchet man'' - but nobody is saying that we do. What Mitch is getting at (Edit: I think) is that we need a well rounded midfielder. Somebody in the Keane mould (but obviously not as good). Somebody who is defensively disciplined and still good on the ball. That type of player would stop us looking so exposed defensively, but wouldn't take away from our possession passing. Cleverly/Anderson have been fantastic in possession, but they are unbalanced because they are weak without the ball. They've been letting the opposition have the ball in front of our defence too easy. You saying we don't need a hatchet man is just the opposite end of the spectrum from the people saying we can rely on Rooney and the wingers for our creativity. Central midfield needs to be good on both sides of the ball.

As it stands we will probably have Carrick or Fletcher brought in for a 451/433 in big games to make us more solid defensively. Ando and Cleverly will still be great in possession in those situations, but imagine how much better the team would be if instead of Carrick/Fletcher we were bringing someone into the team who actually has the skills on the ball too.

Maybe Anderson and Cleverly will improve enough defensively (I have major doubts about Anderson in that regard), or maybe when Fletch comes along it will all work out fine. But we would have been better off, with a whole lot more attractive cover and options if we had brought in one good rounded CM.

Sirsok

cambo2008 wrote: »

This is my gripe,why can't we strengthen that centre-midfield with actual centre-midfielders instead of counting on wingers and defenders to slot in and do a job.

Theirry Henry was considered a winger before he went up front for arsenal

also this is what Jones said about the issue

Manchester United’s £16m bid for Blackburn’s Phil Jones came as a surprise to most fans as there were far more pressing transfer concerns that needed to be addressed. Clearly the attention from all the other top clubs forced United’s hand, with Jones a player they were keeping an eye on to sign in the future. The sale of Wes Brown and John O’Shea has helped make more sense of it too, as well as the theory he had been bought to play in a holding midfield role, as he had done on occasion at Blackburn.
Since joining United, he’s played in the centre of defence and at right back, and has today claimed that in defence is where he is at his best.
“That is definitely where I play my best football,” he said. “I like to see the game in front of me and read the play. When the manager asked me to move into midfield at Blackburn it was strange. I didn’t expect it. It took a few games to adapt to that role and the positions I should take. But if I was asked to do that here, I would feel comfortable with it.”

source http://therepublikofmancunia.com/jones-im-a-defender-not-a-midfielder/

Mikeyt086

We just had our best start to the season. We are playing some great stuff and we all know we can play better.

Dont understand the amount of negativity in here. It's vintage boards.ie

smokedeels

Why haven't we sent Kiko and/or Diouf out on loan.

Kiko needs to get the finger out and push on, he'd be lucky to get games in the CC with our attacking options

DM_7

Dominant midfielder or a dominant midfield?

Buying combative players isn't the answer in itself. Quality players can play around these guys.

The important thing in defence is mobility. You need players that can cover ground quickly, track runners and get between the ball and the goal.

Then when we have the ball, be comfortable in possession and be able to stay composed under pressure.

For me Cleverly and Anderson tick these boxes and are a real improvement to have in the side. I'm delighted to have them.

I think over the next year or two players with similar abilities will obviously need to be added to the squad (bought or developed from within). Jones fits into that role if needed at the moment. But as he makes centre half his own we won't be able to move him around.

At the moment i'm happy with the options available compared to start of last season.

Pro. F

DM-ICE wrote: »

The important thing in defence is mobility. You need players that can cover ground quickly, track runners and get between the ball and the goal.

Neither Anderson nor Cleverly are good at this. Anderson in particular has a habit of letting runners go past him and is always looking to pass his man on to someone else. Maybe they can improve in this aspect (I think Cleverly will be fine), if they do then they could be a world beating pair.

Whatever happens, we have improved massively on what we have seen in recent years. In fact, I would say we are moving the ball around better now than we have done since Keane left.