Manchester United Talk/Gossip/Rumours Thread 11/12

Will I Amnt

Sirsok wrote: »

cambo2008 wrote: »

This is my gripe,why can't we strengthen that centre-midfield with actual centre-midfielders instead of counting on wingers and defenders to slot in and do a job.

Theirry Henry was considered a winger before he went up front for arsenal

also this is what Jones said about the issue

Manchester United’s £16m bid for Blackburn’s Phil Jones came as a surprise to most fans as there were far more pressing transfer concerns that needed to be addressed. Clearly the attention from all the other top clubs forced United’s hand, with Jones a player they were keeping an eye on to sign in the future. The sale of Wes Brown and John O’Shea has helped make more sense of it too, as well as the theory he had been bought to play in a holding midfield role, as he had done on occasion at Blackburn.
Since joining United, he’s played in the centre of defence and at right back, and has today claimed that in defence is where he is at his best.
“That is definitely where I play my best football,” he said. “I like to see the game in front of me and read the play. When the manager asked me to move into midfield at Blackburn it was strange. I didn’t expect it. It took a few games to adapt to that role and the positions I should take. But if I was asked to do that here, I would feel comfortable with it.”

source http://therepublikofmancunia.com/jones-im-a-defender-not-a-midfielder/

Just because Jones says he would be comfortable there doesn't mean he will be effective there.
Regarding Henry,there's plenty of wingers that are competent in front of goal,it's an easier transition than defender to CM in my opinion.

DM_7

Pro. F wrote: »

Neither Anderson nor Cleverly are good at this. Anderson in particular has a habit of letting runners go past him and is always looking to pass his man on to someone else. Maybe they can improve in this aspect (I think Cleverly will be fine), if they do then they could be a world beating pair.

Whatever happens, we have improved massively on what we have seen in recent years. In fact, I would say we are moving the ball around better now than we have done since Keane left.

I certainly think Anderson and Clev have work to do when it comes to defensive work. But I think they can get their over time as they have the energy levels to do it - andersons fitness level should improve and Clevs experience in midfield will see him read the defensive side better. Of course keeping possession better will help them too.

Blatter

cambo2008 wrote: »

Just because Jones says he would be comfortable there doesn't mean he will be effective there.
Regarding Henry,there's plenty of wingers that are competent in front of goal,it's an easier transition than defender to CM in my opinion.

From what I've seem of Jonres in a Utd shirt so far, I think he has the ball skills to be good cover in CM for us or to be effective in a 3 man midfield.

Will I Amnt

Blatter wrote: »

From what I've seem of Jonres in a Utd shirt so far, I think he has the ball skills to be good cover in CM for us or to be effective in a 3 man midfield.

As cover is grand but to have to bring a defender or winger in to combat a certain style when you have a fully fit squad??
That to me means a lack of options in the middle.

redzerdrog

Blatter wrote: »

Rooney will hit 25-35 goals this season. Hernandez will get 15-25. Welbeck will get 15-20. Berbatov will get 5-10. Young will get 10-15. Nani will get 10-15. Park will get 5-10. Cleverly and Anderson will get 5-8 each. Fletcher will bag a few, as will Giggs. Valencia is capable of 8-10. Smalling will chip in with a few purely with his height, as will Vidic as he always has done. Macheda, Owen and Diouf could get 8-12 between them.

I see plenty of goals throughout the side. It's not a problem IMO.

thats a lot of goals even going with the bottom end of the estimates its roughly 123 goals

out of interest how many goals did ye score last year?

TheBunk1

redzerdrog wrote: »

thats a lot of goals even going with the bottom end of the estimates its roughly 123 goals

out of interest how many goals did ye score last year?

I make it 114 goals last year so he's close enough. But the he hasn't factored in Own Goal.... He's gonna be back to his best this year I feel; 15 goals minimum :pac:

Blatter

redzerdrog wrote: »

thats a lot of goals even going with the bottom end of the estimates its roughly 123 goals

out of interest how many goals did ye score last year?

I'm not sure, I'll find out when I get home.

It would have been around 110 I think though. Around 60 games and maybe averaging just under 2 goals a game. May have been slightly more.

I do feel well score more goals this season though. 16 goals in our first 4 games would suggest that we should beat last season's tally at least, although I may have been overly optimistic.

smokedeels

Blatter wrote: »

I'm not sure, I'll find out when I get home.

It would have been around 110 I think though. Around 60 games and maybe averaging just under 2 goals a game. May have been slightly more.

I do feel well score more goals this season though. 16 goals in our first 4 games would suggest that we should beat last season's tally at least, although I may have been overly optimistic.

I think the Arsenal game distorts that, we won't see another result like that this year.

It's hard to judge in general, Nani, Berba and Park were both scoring goals in the first half of last season, Rooney and Hernandez then picked it up in the second half while the former players weren’t scoring... so there's no reason to assume that a similar shift in who's getting the goals will not happen again, That said... Rooney starting the season well and Ashely Young should add to the overall tally.

killwill

cambo2008 wrote: »

Just because Jones says he would be comfortable there doesn't mean he will be effective there.
Regarding Henry,there's plenty of wingers that are competent in front of goal,it's an easier transition than defender to CM in my opinion.

Re Jones: kind of irrelevant but Utd were watching him with the intent of buying him in the summer SAF said himself he tried to buy him in January.

bucketybuck

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

We just had our best start to the season. We are playing some great stuff and we all know we can play better.

Dont understand the amount of negativity in here. It's vintage boards.ie

I hate this bloody argument. Would you rather I waited until we get beaten before making these points about our midfield? Sure if I did that you would probably just say it was a knee jerk reaction to a bad defeat, I can't win.

The points I have made about our midfield are valid points, regardless of the results we have gotten so far this season.

Mars Bar

smokedeels wrote: »

I think the Arsenal game distorts that, we won't see another result like that this year.

Not when you compare it to last season as the goal difference in the Arsenal game is equal to that of the Blackburn game last season.

Professional Griefer

''I don't think my transfer was Rooney's fault," said Mertesacker.

hahaha, thought that was pretty funny

Will I Amnt

I see Robbie Brady grabbed himself a goal for Ireland u21's,doing quite well for himself lately.

Mikeyt086

bucketybuck wrote: »

I hate this bloody argument. Would you rather I waited until we get beaten before making these points about our midfield? Sure if I did that you would probably just say it was a knee jerk reaction to a bad defeat, I can't win.

The points I have made about our midfield are valid points, regardless of the results we have gotten so far this season.

Quite frankly, yes.

All we should care about is what is happening on the pitch. I doubt the United staff are monitoring your tips and ideas, therefore all they are useful for is scaremongering and complaining for the sake of it.

I check this thread daily for news on the club and the players, and reactions to matches and opinions regarding them. Can you see why I would be sick to the teeth of hearing how **** our midfield is? If not read back on the 2008 superthread, everything your saying has been said there. I've just accepted our squad for what it is.

parker kent

All this midfield debating seems to ignore that Darren Fletcher will add a lot of stability to midfield. The days of some goon running around kicking people are gone. But a midfielder like Fletcher still adds defensive solidity. Sure I'd prefer a midfield that dominated the game (all rounders are my preference in midfield), but even with that I don't think United's midfield options are as poor as is often suggested. Sure it is not perfect, but I'm not sure there were options readily available to buy.

So I think it is worth giving Cleverley plenty of game time. He can be defensively unaware, but he is just a young player. Paul Scholes took time to learn the art of being a top midfielder. He learnt how to be one by playing games. Ditto Tom Cleverley.

I think in big games a midfield of Fletcher and Anderson with Rooney dropping deep will be fine.

The_Kew_Tour

When is Fletcher due back anyway?

kmart6

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

When is Fletcher due back anyway?

Well Fergie has called for Scotland to play him in these games so surely be available for selection for the Bolton game...providing no set backs!

G.K.

What's your 25 man squad gonna look like then? Something like this?

1. Evra
2. Ferdinand
3. Evans
4. Owen
5. Anderson
6. Berbatov
7. Rooney
8. Giggs
9. Park
10. Hernandez
11. Vidic
12. Carrick
13. Nani
14. Young
15. Cleverly
16. Fletcher
17. Valencia
18. Gibson
19. PIG
20. Diouf
21. Lindegaard
22. Smalling (If I've interpreted rules correctly)
23. n/a
24. n/a
25. n/a

Pro. F

Mikeyt086 wrote: »

All we should care about is what is happening on the pitch. I doubt the United staff are monitoring your tips and ideas, therefore all they are useful for is scaremongering and complaining for the sake of it.

Who are you to tell fans what they should care about?

Plenty of people like to discuss the strategy and tactics of the club. It does no harm.

Nailz

Ben Amos doesn't have to be put in the 25-man squad does he? Isn't it that they have to be under 21 by the 1st of January 2011 as to not be eligible. Ben turned 21 in April I think so I suppose he's grand.

Or am I completely wrong?

Mitch Connor

Player Rating Results for the Arsenal Game

Name|Avrage Rating
Rooney | 9.49
Young | 9.04
Smalling | 7.64
Anderson | 7.56
Welbeck | 7.53
Cleverley | 7.49
Jones | 7.24
Park | 7
De Gea | 6.87
Evans | 6.47
Nani | 6.42
Hernandez | 6.18
Giggs | 6.13
Evra | 5.78


Player Rating Results for August.

Name|Total|Games Played|Avrage Rating
Rooney | 32.63 | 4 | 8.1575
Young | 32.32 | 4 | 8.08
Smalling | 29.81 | 4 | 7.4525
Cleverley | 29.47 | 4 | 7.3675
Anderson | 29.35 | 4 | 7.3375
Jones | 29.3 | 4 | 7.325
Welbeck | 29.16 | 4 | 7.29
Evans | 27.11 | 4 | 6.7775
Nani | 26.81 | 4 | 6.7025
De Gea | 23.84 | 4 | 5.96
Evra | 18.42 | 3 | 6.14
Vidic | 12.84 | 2 | 6.42
Park | 12.55 | 2 | 6.275
Ferdinand | 12.38 | 2 | 6.19
Giggs | 12.25 | 2 | 6.125
Hernandez | 11.63 | 2 | 5.815
Berbatov | 10.86 | 2 | 5.43
Rafael | 6.49 | 1 | 6.49
Fabio | 6.4 | 1 | 6.4
Carrick | 5.86 | 1 | 5.86

kmart6

Good work again Mitch!

Blatter

Is that Rooney rating one of the highest you've ever recorded for a player?

Mitch Connor

Blatter wrote: »

Is that Rooney rating one of the highest you've ever recorded for a player?

Yeah, I think so.

Van Der Sar in March vs Arsenal (9.06) is the next best, i think. Then Rooney (9.0) vs Chelsea in April (second game vs them in April).

Unfortunately for Berbatov neither of the games last season vs Liverpool or Blackburn were rated - he romped away with the MotM votes in those games.

Blatter

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Yeah, I think so.

Van Der Sar in March vs Arsenal (9.06) is the next best, i think. Then Rooney (9.0) vs Chelsea in April (second game vs them in April).

Unfortunately for Berbatov neither of the games last season vs Liverpool or Blackburn were rated - he romped away with the MotM votes in those games.

Berbatov - Blackburn. Not sure how anyone couldn't have given him a 10 if you were to have done it. The odd person I suppose, he probably would have gotten 9.8 or something.

bucketybuck

parker kent wrote: »

All this midfield debating seems to ignore that Darren Fletcher will add a lot of stability to midfield.

I would just like to point out again that nobody knows what Fletcher is going to be like when he comes back. He has been out for a long time, losing a lot of muscle mass and suffering an energy sapping virus, he would not be the first player to struggle to find his feet again after that. Though not the same injury, Alan Smith springs to mind.

Thats on top of the usual increased risk of suffering unrelated injuries that happens when you try to perform at an elite level after months of inaction. He is a hamstring/calf injury waiting to happen.

Darren Fletcher may add some stability to our midfield. In my opinion however it is more likely that he will take a long long time to return to form.

Blatter

bucketybuck wrote: »

I would just like to point out again that nobody knows what Fletcher is going to be like when he comes back. He has been out for a long time, losing a lot of muscle mass and suffering an energy sapping virus, he would not be the first player to struggle to find his feet again after that. Though not the same injury, Alan Smith springs to mind.

Thats on top of the usual increased risk of suffering unrelated injuries that happens when you try to perform at an elite level after months of inaction. He is a hamstring/calf injury waiting to happen.

Darren Fletcher may add some stability to our midfield. In my opinion however it is more likely that he will take a long long time to return to form.

He's virtually been out since early March, has played a few times for the reserves and has had a couple of first team appearances since then.

The Scotland assistant manager (Peter Houston) has said Fletcher's looking 'exceptionally well' and the club has had him on a separate conditioning program, so I don't think there should be any fears of loss of muscle mass etc.

Ferguson has apparently rang Craig Levein and told him to play Fletcher as 'he's fine'.

The signs are encouraging, looking forward to seeing him back in action. Hopefully the rest has reinvigorated him. Remember Antonio Valencia was 6 months out last season and came back stronger and better than ever. (Very different injury, I know)

onemorechance

Mr_Roger_Bongos wrote: »

Thanks for that link! Hope he does it for most of the games as it's great to see the contribution of specific players.

Phil Jones. Looks Awesome! :D

Welcome. Yes, it's a neat idea so hopefully he'll do all the United players before season end! :P He has Rooney v Arsenal as well but you have to PM him for that. He says he'll get suspended if he uploads the Rooney one. Not sure why it matters for that one

onemorechance

Blatter wrote: »

Ferguson has apparently rang Craig Levein and told him to play Fletcher as 'he's fine'.

Sometimes the internationals come at a good time, for some! Fletch gets some competitive game time in and SAF gets to assess his match fitness before the next United game! :pac:

Blatter wrote: »

The signs are encouraging, looking forward to seeing him back in action. Hopefully the rest has reinvigorated him. Remember Antonio Valencia was 6 months out last season and came back stronger and better than ever. (Very different injury, I know)

Valencia really did well when he came back. Didn't he set up Rooney for a couple in his first game back? I remember Rooney looking delighted to have Valencia back with accurate crosses rather than Nani's random crosses!

Fletch had a bad one too, maybe worse in that it was a prolonged illness, but he should be eager to get back in to help ensure he gets another CL final chance!

Blatter

I'm really looking forward to seeing Valencia return to the first team. He improved beyond my expectations last season. That league game V Chelsea at Old Trafford, Valencia's performance was probably the best I've seen from a winger in years.

onemorechance

True, Valencia's comeback was superb, like you said, he seemed to get better! Not many others do that! He will need to be superb again to get a lot of games; not likely that Ashley, Nani and Valencia will play too often at the same time. They will all need to be wary of their starting spot! :pac::pac::pac:

parker kent

bucketybuck wrote: »

I would just like to point out again that nobody knows what Fletcher is going to be like when he comes back. He has been out for a long time, losing a lot of muscle mass and suffering an energy sapping virus, he would not be the first player to struggle to find his feet again after that. Though not the same injury, Alan Smith springs to mind.

Thats on top of the usual increased risk of suffering unrelated injuries that happens when you try to perform at an elite level after months of inaction. He is a hamstring/calf injury waiting to happen.

Darren Fletcher may add some stability to our midfield. In my opinion however it is more likely that he will take a long long time to return to form.

Yet this is an argument that started partly because Owen Hargreaves was released. Surely a player out since March stands a better chance of recovering than a player who has spent the last 3 years injured and who has been injury prone for even longer.

Of course there are always issues when a player comes back, I said something similar about Valencia last season. But in view of a debate where a guy who has hardly kicked a ball in 3 years is being lamented, I think Fletcher deserves a mention. Also even he does take a long time, the season is a long time too. Even if he was only at his top form for the last few months of the season, that would be a huge boost. Look how players that struggled early last season blossomed at the end of the season.

Mitch Connor

parker kent wrote: »

Yet this is an argument that started partly because Owen Hargreaves was released. Surely a player out since March stands a better chance of recovering than a player who has spent the last 3 years injured and who has been injury prone for even longer.

Of course there are always issues when a player comes back, I said something similar about Valencia last season. But in view of a debate where a guy who has hardly kicked a ball in 3 years is being lamented, I think Fletcher deserves a mention.

i don't doubt Fletcher can get back to the physical level required. However, you can't ignore the fact that for most of last season he was performing at well below the levels we had come to expect. While he will def come back into contention, we don't know if we are going to get the Fletcher of 08/10 back - who would be a great addition to the side.

parker kent

Mitch Connor wrote: »

i don't doubt Fletcher can get back to the physical level required. However, you can't ignore the fact that for most of last season he was performing at well below the levels we had come to expect. While he will def come back into contention, we don't know if we are going to get the Fletcher of 08/10 back - who would be a great addition to the side.

Players find and lose form throughout their career. Giggs, Rooney, Rio etc have all had dips. Obviously I can't say for sure he will get back to his best, but again I am only saying he is worth mentioning in this discussion. He could conceivably boost the midfield no end.

Corvo

Never a huge fan of Fletcher, don't think he has the positional sense of say Hargreaves or a Toure for example, but I don't doubt that if he got back to his form of previous seasons, he would be a nice addition to the squad as it is unlikely Clev & Anderson can keep the midfield ticking over the way they are at the moment, and Carrick lacks the mobility and energy to replicate it.

Time will tell. Still think some form of midfield addition would have been good for us this summer, but don't rule out a January raid for a promising youngster (like the Smalling capture)

SilverFox261

Was talking to a few friends last night about the happenings of the transfer window and the inevitable question of how I felt about Hargreaves going to City was asked, being a United fan, and also how many games do i think he will play.

After thinking about it, I couldn't really see where he fit into the City puzzle, except as being a rotation option for De Jong. Assuming he stays fit, I said that he would probably make 20-25 appearances overall, and about 10 starts if they go far in all competitions. Oh, and the mandatory sub appearance in extra time against United at OT would be one of them!

What does everyone else here think? Will he play a big part in City's season if fit? Or is he just there to be a last ditch backup?

Corvo

SilverFox261 wrote: »

Was talking to a few friends last night about the happenings of the transfer window and the inevitable question of how I felt about Hargreaves going to City was asked, being a United fan, and also how many games do i think he will play.

After thinking about it, I couldn't really see where he fit into the City puzzle, except as being a rotation option for De Jong. Assuming he stays fit, I said that he would probably make 20-25 appearances overall, and about 10 starts if they go far in all competitions. Oh, and the mandatory sub appearance in extra time against United at OT would be one of them!

What does everyone else here think? Will he play a big part in City's season if fit? Or is he just there to be a last ditch backup?

He is simply back up to Toure come January because he will be at the African Nations. I'd say come next summer they will boot him out.

De Jong, Barry & Milner should be first choices for the midfield berth, though I think Mancini prefers Milner on the wings.

Mitch Connor

SilverFox261 wrote: »

Was talking to a few friends last night about the happenings of the transfer window and the inevitable question of how I felt about Hargreaves going to City was asked, being a United fan, and also how many games do i think he will play.

After thinking about it, I couldn't really see where he fit into the City puzzle, except as being a rotation option for De Jong. Assuming he stays fit, I said that he would probably make 20-25 appearances overall, and about 10 starts if they go far in all competitions. Oh, and the mandatory sub appearance in extra time against United at OT would be one of them!

What does everyone else here think? Will he play a big part in City's season if fit? Or is he just there to be a last ditch backup?

He is Vieira's replacement, while they have also added Nasri to their CM options mix. With Toure heading to the ACN in the new year, he will be a rotation option for them at this point. I honestly don't think he will force his way into the first team reckoning too much, but he will be a useful and very cheap back up option.

Mitch Connor

Did a quick check on the player ratings for the last month, to see what the average rating of the team was for each game.

Arsenal - 7.20
Spurs - 7.10
Man City - 6.98
West Brom - 6.26

Spurs and Arsenal game ratings surprisingly close to be honest.

Corvo

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Did a quick check on the player ratings for the last month, to see what the average rating of the team was for each game.

Arsenal - 7.20
Spurs - 7.10
Man City - 6.98
West Brom - 6.26

Spurs and Arsenal game ratings surprisingly close to be honest.

Early days yet though. Fully expect Arsenal to come good at some stage.

Will I Amnt

Jaysus,Fletcher looks right strange with that beard,took a while to cop on it was him on SSN.

DM_7

Macheda isn't in the Italy under 21 squad. Did he fall out with them at some stage? Massacci is in the under 19 squad though which is a good sign.

United site is updating the academy page to include this seasons players for anyone interested. Lots of new profiles up now.

Mitch Connor

DM-ICE wrote: »

Macheda isn't in the Italy under 21 squad. Did he fall out with them at xome stage? Massacci is in the under 19 squad though which is a good sign.

Yeah - the manager doesn't like he attitude, or didn't a year or so ago, so I don't know if there was a reconciliation or anything. Also, fact is he hasn't played competitive pro football since the end of last season. He needs to be playing to get called up - needs a loan move in the next couple of weeks, but not sure who would be interested in him or who would be the right club for him to go to - has to be championship side I think.

DM_7

I'm surprised fergie junior didn't look for him early in the summer.

homerjay2005

macheda needs a kick up the hole to sort him out.

can he still go on loan now or is it too late?

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

macheda needs a kick up the hole to sort him out.

can he still go on loan now or is it too late?

Can get a loan to a championship team. Can't go to another prem team. A loan move to another euro side might be possible - depending on their windows. The Turkish window, for example, is still open I think - same with Russia and Norway I think, not positive though.

I would prefer to see him remain in England, so would have to be a Championship side.

homerjay2005

does anybody have our 25 man squad for the season?

Kerrydude1981

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Can get a loan to a championship team. Can't go to another prem team. A loan move to another euro side might be possible - depending on their windows. The Turkish window, for example, is still open I think - same with Russia and Norway I think, not positive though.

I would prefer to see him remain in England, so would have to be a Championship side.

Do you think Macheda would be up for the challenge of playing in the Championship,he always comes across as a fella who thinks he is better then he actually is,bit like Nicklas Bendtner

Mitch Connor

homerjay2005 wrote: »

does anybody have our 25 man squad for the season?

hasn't been officially released yet as far as I know.

I think this is correct though:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ato0erZ6b0ENdC1PU3Zsdkt5SXYxa1hFVjh3SUM2enc&hl=en_US#gid=0

Mitch Connor

Kerrydude1981 wrote: »

Do you think Macheda would be up for the challenge of playing in the Championship,he always comes across as a fella who thinks he is better then he actually is,bit like Nicklas Bendtner

well it would be far better for him than playing reserve team football.