Leeds United Team Talk/Gossip/Rumours

maximoose

Someone has managed to get some PL support for the Massimo out campaign

I don't think Ozil has a clue what is going on

Shlippery

The enthusiasm in that video is overwhelming.

SarahBM

Hey everyone! I got away for 2 weeks and we start winning! I should leave the country more often!

So what wonderful ups and downs have I missed?

Wood has us 1 up against Hull away from home!

SarahBM

Well I clearly jinxed that. 2-1 down going down at half time! feck sake.

Kristopherus

A draw, a point, ciao to another nothing season

Shlippery

Penalty saved too, but at the same time, still a solid point away against Hull in 4th.
Still positive signs!

kevthegaff

Shlippery wrote: »

Penalty saved too, but at the same time, still a solid point away against Hull in 4th.
Still positive signs!

Evans seems to be doing a good job with limited funds

Shlippery

That's the sad thing, Steve's doing well, and heart is in the right place, I'm just worried about end of season and the circus that lies ahead if Massimo boots him, especially with the Season ticket refund dealio.

Will the cycle start again? New manager, drama, sacking, rinse and repeat.

SarahBM

Didn't Evans get a new contract? or did I dream that up?

championc

Shlippery wrote:

That's the sad thing, Steve's doing well, and heart is in the right place, I'm just worried about end of season and the circus that lies ahead if Massimo boots him, especially with the Season ticket refund dealio.

It's a big gamble by Massimo with the Season Tickets but you have to feel that it would be an even bigger gamble to replace Evans, especially since I would expect the nucleus of the squad to stay intact. Massimo can now see that Evans can be the one to make promotion finally happen.

I certainly hope that SE gets a top 10 finish, and there's a real possibility of that now.

Maybe the current form is further proof that a new manager needs at least 3 months (or more) before things finally click and start working as they hope.

Lamper.sffc

Personally I think Evans should stay. Unfortunately I think he will go.

When Cellino starts spouting his nonsense in the media I think you know whats coming.

It just makes no sense to keep changing managers. Especially when they dont get enough time. Evans now knows the players inside and out. He knows who should stay and who should leave. Bring in another guy and that knowledge is lost. We start from scratch again.
The new guy only has weeks to assess the squad and decide what is required. Not enough time.

Give Evans a shot at it next season. Which is something Redfearn deserved too, another season.

As I said though I dont think Cellino will. He wants to be seen as the person responsible for our promotion not the manager. Ego over common sense. Its the Cellino way

RichardoKhan

The only factor I give Caesar in all of this.....Is the same one most Championship owners/Chairman face & thats this.

Do they think its better to get a 'Battler' of a Manager/Coach who gets them out of the Championship but doesnt have the way with all to ply they trade in the PL (get relegated first season up)or do you try encamp a Mgr/Coach who has the ability to ply his trade in the PL but has to battle his way out of the Championship (takes a couple of seasons but you stay up for a while)?

So where does everyone think SE sits in this?

Personally Id like to see SE given the chance than take another gambit with another

tfer

I would like SE to carry on, I've said before I love the guy's enthusiasm when he's on the sideline. I like his character and really hope he is given more time and money to get us up.
How he would do in the PL with Leeds is impossible to say, but would love to see it happen and then judge him

championc

Without doubt, it would be a massive gamble to replace SE. If it went wrong, you could end up with a mountain to climb and replacing a manager in Oct / Nov. We know from Uve that it won't just automatically work. It has to be the right manager with the right players and ultimately, the manager knowing players inside out, and knowing how to motivate them to achieve their full potential - like Botaka now

I have no great time for Evans, and have heard stories from a connection in the dressing room that suggests the players don't have either and just get on with doing their own stuff.

But in fairness to him, he's not the issue. We could get Jose Mourinho in, but with a crackpot as owner it doesn't really matter, it can't go consistently well for long enough to think of going up. If someone offered no relegation again next season, I'd take that.

fanzhiyidan

I have no time for Evans either.
He's a fraud, just like Cellino, full of bluster and bullsh1t.

I will not be sorry to see him leave even if it means more turmoil at the club. He's just capable of maintaining mid table finishes at best.

He'll never get Leeds into the playoffs. His "style" of play is just too basic, not saying that doesn't work in this league but look at the players at his disposal, not suited to what he wants to do. He'd rather shunt the better players we have out of position to play his brand of football rather than trying to build a team around Lewis Cook.

Has very little tactical nous and keeps going on about how he is a successful manager.....never mentions that it was at non-league and League 1 and 2 levels. His only Championship level appointment was his stint at Rotherham where they avoided relegation with a game to go in his first season and was sacked a few weeks into his second season in this league. Also never mentions that his non-league success was built on illegal dealings.....here's a cut and paste job:

After an average playing career in his native Scotland that was cut short by a knee ligament injury at the age of twenty-eight, Evans briefly pitched up at Corby Town as chairman in 1994 before moving on to Stamford FC. After four years at Stamford, he was given a managerial leg-up when he accepted the managerial job at Boston United – a club frequently described at the time as “sleeping giants”, in non-league terms at least – in 1998. Two years later, they were promoted into the Football Conference as the champions of the Southern League, and after a further two years, following a neck and neck race against Dagenham & Redbridge, he took his club into the Football League on as slim a margin as goal difference. Both of these title wins, however, would come to be regarded as fundamentally tainted by the revelations that followed them.

Within weeks, the FA’s then-compliance officer, Graham Bean, had launched an investigation into the financial irregularites at Boston United, and, July of that year, the club was found guilty by an FA disciplinary committee of systematically lodging false contracts for players. The ploy was a simple one. Players signed contracts that were worth a fraction of the value of what they were being paid. In one case, Ken Charlery was recorded as being paid £120 per week when he was actually being paid £620 per week and had received a £16,000 signing on fee for the club, against which no tax had been paid. In another, the former Liverpool defender Mike Marsh was contracted as being paid £100 per week when he was actually earning £1,000 per week. The difference was paid through “expenses”, against which no tax was payable.

The club was fined £100,000 and docked four points for the following season, a decision that enraged Dagenham & Redbridge, who had missed out so narrowly on promotion to Evans’ club. More notable than this, though (at least from the point of view of this particular story), was the fact that Evans and the club’s owner at the time, Pat Malkinson, were both found guilty by the FA of having, “”facilitated a payment of £8,000 to a witness to attempt to mislead, impede and frustrate” the FA’s enquiry into the scam. Malkinson was fined £5,250 and suspended from football for thirteen months. Evans was fined £8,000 and suspended from football for twenty months.

Evans may have been banned from football, but he wasn’t out of work for long, taking a job working for a recruitment company owned by a Staffordshire businessman called Jon Sotnick. Sotnick (who went on to act as Chief Executive at Darlington and was linked with a take-over of Sheffield Wednesday in 2008) was persuaded to put money into Boston United and Evans returned as the Boston manager in February 2004. By this time, though, the mere bans of the FA were the least of Evans’ concerns. A criminal investigation had been launched into the goings-on at Boston, and in September 2005 he and four other people connected with Boston United (including former Boston chairman Pat Malkinson) were charged with – and denied – committing fraud at the club between 1998 and 2002.

Sotnick resigned in June of 2006 to take over as the Chief Executive of Darlington, and sold his shares to director Jim Rodwell for a nominal sum. The trial of Steve Evans, Pat Malkinson, et al, meanwhile, reached trial at Southwark Court in September 2006. The court heard evidence regarding the contracts from Ken Charlery, and the total amount that had been creamed off by the club through fraudulently failing to pay tax and national insurance contributions on the wages of Boston’s players was confirmed at £245,188. While two of the other defendants were acquitted by the judge and one more had his case thrown out, though, Malkinson and Evans changed their pleas to guilty at the last minute. Malkinson was given a two year prison sentence, suspended for two years and ordered to pay back the money that the club owed in tax plus just over £100,000 in interest. Evans received a one year suspended sentence.

Trend Setter in Training

fanzhiyidan wrote: »

I have no time for Evans either.
He's a fraud, just like Cellino, full of bluster and bullsh1t.

I will not be sorry to see him leave even if it means more turmoil at the club. He's just capable of maintaining mid table finishes at best.

He'll never get Leeds into the playoffs. His "style" of play is just too basic, not saying that doesn't work in this league but look at the players at his disposal, not suited to what he wants to do. He'd rather shunt the better players we have out of position to play his brand of football rather than trying to build a team around Lewis Cook.

Has very little tactical nous and keeps going on about how he is a successful manager.....never mentions that it was at non-league and League 1 and 2 levels. His only Championship level appointment was his stint at Rotherham where they avoided relegation with a game to go in his first season and was sacked a few weeks into his second season in this league. Also never mentions that his non-league success was built on illegal dealings.....here's a cut and paste job:

After an average playing career in his native Scotland that was cut short by a knee ligament injury at the age of twenty-eight, Evans briefly pitched up at Corby Town as chairman in 1994 before moving on to Stamford FC. After four years at Stamford, he was given a managerial leg-up when he accepted the managerial job at Boston United – a club frequently described at the time as “sleeping giants”, in non-league terms at least – in 1998. Two years later, they were promoted into the Football Conference as the champions of the Southern League, and after a further two years, following a neck and neck race against Dagenham & Redbridge, he took his club into the Football League on as slim a margin as goal difference. Both of these title wins, however, would come to be regarded as fundamentally tainted by the revelations that followed them.

Within weeks, the FA’s then-compliance officer, Graham Bean, had launched an investigation into the financial irregularites at Boston United, and, July of that year, the club was found guilty by an FA disciplinary committee of systematically lodging false contracts for players. The ploy was a simple one. Players signed contracts that were worth a fraction of the value of what they were being paid. In one case, Ken Charlery was recorded as being paid £120 per week when he was actually being paid £620 per week and had received a £16,000 signing on fee for the club, against which no tax had been paid. In another, the former Liverpool defender Mike Marsh was contracted as being paid £100 per week when he was actually earning £1,000 per week. The difference was paid through “expenses”, against which no tax was payable.

The club was fined £100,000 and docked four points for the following season, a decision that enraged Dagenham & Redbridge, who had missed out so narrowly on promotion to Evans’ club. More notable than this, though (at least from the point of view of this particular story), was the fact that Evans and the club’s owner at the time, Pat Malkinson, were both found guilty by the FA of having, “”facilitated a payment of £8,000 to a witness to attempt to mislead, impede and frustrate” the FA’s enquiry into the scam. Malkinson was fined £5,250 and suspended from football for thirteen months. Evans was fined £8,000 and suspended from football for twenty months.

Evans may have been banned from football, but he wasn’t out of work for long, taking a job working for a recruitment company owned by a Staffordshire businessman called Jon Sotnick. Sotnick (who went on to act as Chief Executive at Darlington and was linked with a take-over of Sheffield Wednesday in 2008) was persuaded to put money into Boston United and Evans returned as the Boston manager in February 2004. By this time, though, the mere bans of the FA were the least of Evans’ concerns. A criminal investigation had been launched into the goings-on at Boston, and in September 2005 he and four other people connected with Boston United (including former Boston chairman Pat Malkinson) were charged with – and denied – committing fraud at the club between 1998 and 2002.

Sotnick resigned in June of 2006 to take over as the Chief Executive of Darlington, and sold his shares to director Jim Rodwell for a nominal sum. The trial of Steve Evans, Pat Malkinson, et al, meanwhile, reached trial at Southwark Court in September 2006. The court heard evidence regarding the contracts from Ken Charlery, and the total amount that had been creamed off by the club through fraudulently failing to pay tax and national insurance contributions on the wages of Boston’s players was confirmed at £245,188. While two of the other defendants were acquitted by the judge and one more had his case thrown out, though, Malkinson and Evans changed their pleas to guilty at the last minute. Malkinson was given a two year prison sentence, suspended for two years and ordered to pay back the money that the club owed in tax plus just over £100,000 in interest. Evans received a one year suspended sentence.

Never heard about that one. Match made in heaven so between MC & SE!

Zaph

2-0 down at home to a team that's already been relegated. How depressing.

Kristopherus

Trend Setter in Training wrote: »

Never heard about that one. Match made in heaven so between MC & SE!

Well today's game is turning into a match made in hell:mad:. 0-2 down to relegated Charlton:mad:.

championc

We're an abnormal mid table team. Normally, you should beat everyone below you and lose to everyone above. Unfortunately we seem to do the complete opposite !!

fanzhiyidan

This time of year again:

who would you keep and does anyone know what year the current players contracts expire?

I presume that any of the good/homegrown player's contracts are due to expire very soon while Massimo's buddies are tied up for the long term.

Only players I'd be sorry to see leave are:
Cook
Taylor
Berardi
Bridcutt
Dallas
Coyle

SarahBM

I get the feeling we'll be looking at a completely new team in August. Cellino will go nuts with his cheque book and buy a load of players that Evans won't want and we'll have the same crap all over again next season.
Jesus. I have turned into my father!

Ceist_Beag

Somehow I can't see MC going nuts with the chequebook unless it's to pay lawyers for yet more legal battles! I really don't have a clue what will happen this summer, such is the unpredictability of MC. Usually by now you'd have a fair idea where the team is aiming for next season and what the target areas might be for new signings along with who might be leaving but this time I haven't the faintest idea what the squad might look like come August ... but I very much doubt that our nett spend will be massive.

Lamper.sffc

Also have to pay out money to

1 Macron
2 Nigel Gibbs
3 Lucy Ward
4 Uwe Rosler
5 Darko (whos contract just finished as far as I know)
Could be others, cant remember

I know that one of the few things that is hard to criticise about Cellino is the financial (sill waiting for some controversy over that though). But the above is just throwing money away. Not that they dont deserve it but it does seem it could have been avoided.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

We could get Jose Mourinho in, but with a crackpot as owner it doesn't really matter, it can't go consistently well for long enough to think of going up. If someone offered no relegation again next season, I'd take that.

I didn't realise he was lined up...

http://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/leeds-owner-massimo-cellino-told-7778774

Cellino is truly, deeply nuts.

fanzhiyidan

Don't know why but I have a feeling Rino Gatusso will be the next manager.

Trend Setter in Training

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Also have to pay out money to

1 Macron
2 Nigel Gibbs
3 Lucy Ward
4 Uwe Rosler
5 Darko (whos contract just finished as far as I know)
Could be others, cant remember

I know that one of the few things that is hard to criticise about Cellino is the financial (sill waiting for some controversy over that though). But the above is just throwing money away. Not that they dont deserve it but it does seem it could have been avoided.

Macron was settled out of court during the week I think. They were looking for £5 mil if I remember the story but the settlement wasn't released (also no provision in the accounts so it is going to hit this year in full).

There are definitely a few others too...

SarahBM

what's the deal with Lucy Ward, why does the club have to pay out to her?
Can't believe how fast the season has gone. I await the summer transfers with anticipation!

Zaph

SarahBM wrote: »

what's the deal with Lucy Ward, why does the club have to pay out to her?

Unfair dismissal and sex discrimination

SarahBM

Zaph wrote: »

Unfair dismissal and sex discrimination

Jesus how did I miss that?!?!? What a joke. Reading that article nearly makes me ashamed to be associated with the club. You really would like to think that that sexist attitude was left back in 1950. Makes me so angry when I hear things like that!
:mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad:

Zaph

Yeah, and when you add in the remarks made by Cellino's sons on social media it really makes the club look like it's run by a bunch of Neanderthals. Which to be honest it most probably is.

To Elland Back

I'm taking a back seat in supporting the club I've loved for over 40 years until that man is gone. I can take poor results and relegations, but I can't be associated with a board like we have at the moment

Trend Setter in Training

1-0 up now thanks to a Wood penalty. Lots of talk on Twitter that SE was waving goodbye before the game with tears in his eyes...

Trend Setter in Training

1-1 in the 93 min... why am I surprised

Mushy

Trend Setter in Training wrote: »

1-1 in the 93 min... why am I surprised

Ah sure finish the season in true standard.

Mushy

Trend Setter in Training wrote: »

1-0 up now thanks to a Wood penalty. Lots of talk on Twitter that SE was waving goodbye before the game with tears in his eyes...

I hope this sin't true, think they should keep him.

championc

Mushy wrote:

Ah sure finish the season in true standard.

Bloody Wootton again. Hopefully we'll finally move him out this window. I think his contract is up in Jan anyway.

Shlippery

From

to


Be sad to see him go if today was his last game.

Just like McDermott and Redders we could be losing someone who actually cares about the team, but without stability we're not going to get anywhere.

Shlippery

http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/sport/football/leeds-united/leeds-united-antenucci-confirms-elland-road-exit-1-7898920

That's Antenucci on the way out, Bailey Peacock still to decide if he'll sign another 2 years.

I hope it's Evans last game with us. An utterly classless conman like him should have nothing to do with the tradition of Leeds, I was mortified to see him patrolling the sidelines at ER. He was lucky to be associated with such a great of the game, he was punching way out of his ample weight. I don't care if he wasn't the worst, though as I said above I am aware that he was a laughing stock in the dressing room. I'd have Grayson back in a heartbeat, Leeds through and through, decent man and decent manager. I don't think the club would have done any worse with him at the helm, but even if they did I'd tolerate it because it would be the right thing. But don't see Grayson, or any decent manager, agreeing to manage under this regime of insanity.

fanzhiyidan

Between Wootton, Bellusci and Silvestri having absolute brain farts this season, they must have directly cost Leeds 15-20 points out of pure moments of individual sh1te. I suppose at least the keeper has also earned points through his performances this season which cannot be said for the other two wage stealers.
Hopefully they'll both be gone sooner rather than later.

Fair enough that happening once or twice a season across the whole team but 7-10 times in a single season is just a sign of poor players who have trouble concentrating for 90 minutes twice a week.
God help anyone that tries to coach them during the week, must be a nightmare trying to get them to concentrate long enough to get ideas to stick.

Could also throw Bamba in there for a good 5-6 points too.

Lamper.sffc

Its looking more and more likely that Evans is going. I understand fans not liking him. Im not very fond of him myself. I find him too mouthy, but he has done a decent job (not spectacular) and I personally believe he deserves another crack at it.

If I had any faith in Cellino to actually go out and get a decent manager then I might think differently but I think most of us understand that Cellino wants a yes man coach. So with that in mind id have Evans over that option any day.

I also think that some of the attitudes of the players this season has been incredibly bad. like mentioned previously some of the players have cost us a lot of points from some of the worst individual errors I have ever seen in one season from a Leeds team and its no surprise they tend to be Cellino signings.

I mean Antenucci yesterday not celebrating a goal from Wood because Wood took a penalty Antenucci wanted is just down right childish and shows just some of the bad attitude from players in the squad.

J Cheever Loophole

Lamper.sffc wrote: »

Its looking more and more likely that Evans is going. I understand fans not liking him. Im not very fond of him myself. I find him too mouthy, but he has done a decent job (not spectacular) and I personally believe he deserves another crack at it.

I'd have to say that I actually do like him. To me, he brings a passion to the role that shows he genuinely cares, which is a lot more than you can say for some of those out on the pitch.

As someone pointed out above, the team has essentially been undone by basic, basic, unforced errors from a number of individuals which reflects the level of ability within the squad. These players predate Evans' arrival at the Club. They are not his players. In that context, a mid table finish under him is not something to be sniffed at.

I'd love him to stay on, not because of any guarantee that things will improve, but rather in recognition of the fact that some sort of stability has to be a prerequisite for moving things forward.

DoctaDee

J Cheever Loophole wrote: »

I'd have to say that I actually do like him. To me, he brings a passion to the role that shows he genuinely cares, which is a lot more than you can say for some of those out on the pitch.

...... These players predate Evans' arrival at the Club. They are not his players. In that context, a mid table finish under him is not something to be sniffed at.

I'd love him to stay on, not because of any guarantee that things will improve, but rather in recognition of the fact that some sort of stability has to be a prerequisite for moving things forward.

I'd be for giving him another year - the 2 defeats around the start of new year effectively scuppered his plans to put some of his own players into the squad and he had to suck it up with the lot he'd inherited.

Shlippery

Seems chances of stability are out the window.

For those opposed to Evans, what do you make of our other options? I can't see the reasoning in some of the choices Cellino looks to be choosing from, how are any of these better than Steve Evans?

John Sheridan, Oldham 17th in League One, getting them to 6th place for League 1 playoffs in '07 being his high point, then next in line Zenga

"The former shotstopper has managed 16 different clubs since pursuing a coaching career in 1998, most notably Sampdoria who sacked the Italian after only 14 games in charge last year."

Next in line..

championc

Wootton out of contract in Jan AFAIK.

In other news, Cellino appealed and won his Range Rover Tax case. The car will be returned to him.

So that's the FL potential ban quashed. However, the Cagliari stadium case starts on 18th May but no doubt, that will run and run

Kingp35

None of the supposed favourites in the betting for new manager fill me with confidence. If I had the choice I would keep Evans despite his very questionable characteristics! He didn't get the chance to bring in any of his own players and was scuppered by a huge amount of individual mistakes that cost us a lot of points. He deserves a pre-season to put a team together and see how it goes.

championc

He could stay for a whole season and Cellini's statistical average would still be intact

Zaph

I dislike Evans intensely as an individual and I would rather he wasn't associated with the club. However he's shown that it is possible to stabilise things if the manager isn't sacked after half a dozen games, and he did so with no additional resources and quite a few under-achievers. So at this point Cellino needs to accept that he's not going to do any better than Evans, give him some money to spend on players he wants and let him get on with the job unhindered for at least the first 3 months of next season. He's certainly done enough since he took over to merit at least that.

fanzhiyidan

I reluctantly agree with you in the light of the managers who've been linked.