Horrible experience in Woodlands Tralee

amdublin

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

Just saying fergalr, if I were him and I were trying to get a load of people on my side for something so silly, I wouldn't ruin it by saying "oh I had a slab of beer in the boot like"...would you?

This whole thing is so silly and OTT, I think a mod should delete it for God's sake. The only reason why I joined is because I saw this post and that he had gone on the radio about it lol ffs, you got turned away from the campsite, you managed to stay in a different campsite, move on. Life ain't fair, you don't need to have a song and dance about it.

I think you are quite incorrect in everything you have said on this thread. And I think the Equality Commission (the Law! Not someone like yourself just spouting off) would completely disagree with you also.

People have rights you know!
And one of these rights is not be discriminated against on the basis of your age.

Op - don't "move on". Take it to the Equality Commission.

Ficheall

celticutd87 wrote: »

Ok then but lets see your point. You see on tv the whole time traveller groups portrayed as fighting and trouble, romanian gypsies as thieves etc. Should they be not allowed in because a few have forged the reputation for the whole group? Iv seen old fellas at fisticuffs in dublin, oxegen and cork and yet they are grand.

So you're saying that the owner would have been being unreasonable if he had turned away a group of travellers? Sure they'd have said they were only there for the 'craic' too...

gavcobh

geordie 1 wrote: »

agree, hurdy seems as thick as a whale omelette, probably never been out his front room , seems camp enough though

that made my day right there. hurdy its true that an owner has the right to refuse, but you see the right to refuse is based on the individual people he is presented with. an owner cannot refuse based on a persons race, sex, age, or social class. there is a fine line there but a line all the same

celticutd87

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

Now who's poisoning the well? There is only 1 reason a guy comes onto a forum such as this, after being on the radio and God knows where else complaining about the same thing, and that is to complain some more. There is nothing "healthy" about this debate, it is called OBSESSIVE.

Sir why are you trying to get rises out of people on here. U seem a bit aggressive over this matter. I was on liveline for the first time in my life because thats how much this annoyed me over our treatment. After the lies the manager told on national radio i decided to come online and try to spark debate. Thats what is happening while you are asking for an open debate to be shut by the mods. There is nothing, as you put it, "healthy" about your rage against me on this issue.

Ficheall

gavcobh wrote: »

well hurdy gurdy, i am entitled to be nonchalant if i wish and it was also a way for my friend to know which one of the group i am.

Would "Gav from cobh" not have given away who you were? Crediting your friend with a modicum of intellect, like...

Hurdy Gurdy

amdublin wrote: »

I think you are quite incorrect in everything you have said on this thread. And I think the Equality Commission (the Law! Not someone like yourself just spouting off) would completely disagree with you also.

People have rights you know!
And one of these rights is not be discriminated against on the basis of your age.

Op - don't "move on". Take it to the Equality Commission.

And I suppose the business owner has no "rights"? Just a bunch of young fellas who had not yet even spent a dime in the business and had not yet made any business deals with the owner? I'd say something if he paid the money and was unfairly evicted but you cant say this guy has any claim against the business owner when he didn't even have a business transaction.

amdublin

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

Correct headmaster. If you own the land/renting the land and own the business, then you surely can turn people away. If the case was that you couldn't, people would have free reign over these places and there would be no rules or regulations.

Incorrect
If you open your land you have to rent to everyone or no one. You don't get to arbitrarily choose who to discriminate against.

Ie. You cannot say "males only" - you'd be discriminating against females.
Another example is You cannot say "no travellers"
Above are examples of discrimination.
Another example is you cannot discriminate on the basis of someones age.

Let this argument go Hurdy Gurdy. You are not correct in your arguments.

Op, the law is on your side. The owner was unlawful if he refused you entry because of your age.

geordie 1

anyway , on a topic change , anyone got o.c.d on here ?anybody else got this?? Its starting to get on me nerves like. Just took me about 5mins to get out of the Kitchen, double tapping doors, flicking cups and kicking the fook out me washing machine!
Think ive always had it mildly as a kid, but getting into me advanced years and its getting worse ( took me 4 go's to type that sentence) just wondering

celticutd87

Ficheall wrote: »

Would "Gav from cobh" not have given away who you were? Crediting your friend with a modicum of intellect, like...

Not really since my brother is called gavin and my friend is called gavin and they were both there. This is not my brother its my friend.

amdublin

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

And I suppose the business owner has no "rights"? Just a bunch of young fellas who had not yet even spent a dime in the business and had not yet made any business deals with the owner? I'd say something if he paid the money and was unfairly evicted but you cant say this guy has any claim against the business owner when he didn't even have a business transaction.

You cannot just decide to discriminate against a group of lads because they are young.
If they pulled up and hopped out of their car with a slab of beer and making noise etc etc then he would be justified in his actions.

Www.equality.ie
Check it out dude!

Hurdy Gurdy

I can assure you that I have nothing to do with the business owner or the campsite, nor am I the owner or an employee or friend of the owner of the campsite.

Believe what you wish.

Also celticutd87, were you not trying to get some sort of rise out of people by posting your first post? Or were you simply hoping for a page full of "yeah....true..." responses?

Double standards me thinks.

gavcobh

Ficheall wrote: »

Would "Gav from cobh" not have given away who you were? Crediting your friend with a modicum of intellect, like...

you would think it would but i am gav, his brother is gav and there is a third gav in our group all from cobh. yes it is as confusing as it sounds

Hurdy Gurdy

amdublin wrote: »

You cannot just decide to discriminate against a group of lads because they are young.
If they pulled up and hopped out of their car with a slab of beer and making noise etc etc then he would be justified in his actions.

Www.equality.ie
Check it out dude!

We just have the OP's word that his didn't happen like that amdublin, we were all young once, we know how it goes.

celticutd87

Ficheall wrote: »

So you're saying that the owner would have been being unreasonable if he had turned away a group of travellers? Sure they'd have said they were only there for the 'craic' too...

If they were turned away because they were travellers then yes he would have broke the law and would have likely been fined or closed or both.

celticutd87

amdublin wrote: »

I think you are quite incorrect in everything you have said on this thread. And I think the Equality Commission (the Law! Not someone like yourself just spouting off) would completely disagree with you also.

People have rights you know!
And one of these rights is not be discriminated against on the basis of your age.

Op - don't "move on". Take it to the Equality Commission.

I just want an apology. I have no desire to hurt a business in a recession all i want is for that man to apologise.

gavcobh

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

We just have the OP's word that his didn't happen like that amdublin, we were all young once, we know how it goes.

incorrect again hurdy if you read the original post it give a link to the radio broadcast which contains the owners opinion. ill openly invite you and others to listen to him speak and make up their own mind what happened

celticutd87

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

I can assure you that I have nothing to do with the business owner or the campsite, nor am I the owner or an employee or friend of the owner of the campsite.

Believe what you wish.

Also celticutd87, were you not trying to get some sort of rise out of people by posting your first post? Or were you simply hoping for a page full of "yeah....true..." responses?

Double standards me thinks.

No i was not sir i was trying to see what people thought about our treatment. If thats the way then any topic posted on boards which people disagree with would be classed as trying to get a rise outta them. By your reasoning nobody should talk about things happening to them ever. Just in case somebody disagrees. I welcome debate as iv said already to posters that i do see their point.

amdublin

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

We just have the OP's word that his didn't happen like that amdublin, we were all young once, we know how it goes.

You are making assumptions about someone just because they are young. Do you not get this is discrimination?!!!

If you were/are a campsite owner you cannot make assumptions just because someone is young.
Do you not understand that?!!!?

Also, I am just addressing what the op has said. I am not going to make any assumptions because do you know what: not everyone who is young acts the way you are alluding that you did when you were young.
It would be silly, gneralistic and DISCRIMATORY of me to do so.

Hurdy Gurdy

I just tried to listen to it gavcobh and it is asking my to install Real Player and after reading the OP's posts thus far, I highly doubt that his couple of minutes of fame is worth downloading a rubbish piece of software.

Ficheall

gavcobh wrote: »

you would think it would but i am gav, his brother is gav and there is a third gav in our group all from cobh. yes it is as confusing as it sounds

That does indeed sound confusing!
Was it the fact you went to bed at 12:30 or that you had four cans and two pints over the weekend that were supposed to let your mate know who you were then? Just curious...

celticutd87 wrote: »

If they were turned away because they were travellers then yes he would have broke the law and would have likely been fined or closed or both.

Not arguing with you from a legal viewpoint here - you may well be right on those grounds - my point is that comparing your being turned away to the case of a group of travellers being turned away, under the assumption that you were harmless, will do little for your case.

celticutd87

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

We just have the OP's word that his didn't happen like that amdublin, we were all young once, we know how it goes.

If you do listen to the debate the owner states he cant remember then says that we arrived up to the desk. Id say if we had slabs and were making noise it would have come up in his argument.

pinky 06

What I can't understand is why he said he knew of more campsites around the area but told you to find them yourselves. He wouldn't even give you directions to a close one or anything. It'd be like stopping and asking someone for directions and they say they know them but find your own way!!! Weird... and quite rude imo.

Hurdy Gurdy

Im not making an assumption amdublin, Im expressing my educated opinion, based on years of experience being a young fella once myself.

Are you in your 20's by any chance?

celticutd87

Ficheall wrote: »

Not arguing with you from a legal viewpoint here - you may well be right on those grounds - my point is that comparing your being turned away to the case of a group of travellers being turned away, under the assumption that you were harmless, will do little for your case.

Fair enough good point it does seem to have gone off topic I was just trying to relay a comparisin in terms of discrimination

amdublin

Ficheall wrote: »

Not arguing with you from a legal viewpoint here - you may well be right on those grounds - my point is that comparing your being turned away to the case of a group of travellers being turned away, under the assumption that you were harmless, will do little for your case.

The equality authority would view it as exactly the same.
There are 9 (I think!!) grounds that you cannot be discriminated on. All with the same standing eg. Sex, age, race... Etc
Ethnicity?? I think. This might be what travellers come under?
Family status or something eg. Single person v married person

geordie 1

well i aint done a lot of camping , my opinion is: with the family - cool

with the gal - cool

with boys - gay

just me like

gavcobh

Ficheall wrote: »

That does indeed sound confusing!
Was it the fact you went to bed at 12:30 or that you had four cans and two pints over the weekend that were supposed to let your mate know who you were then? Just curious...

we all were in bed then and i cant remember his alcohol intake i doubt he can remember mine.

hurdy, just for you http://www.zshare.net/audio/93609753195ac249/ happy listening without real player

Hurdy Gurdy

I apologise on behalf of the campsite, it will not happen again.

gavcobh

geordie 1 wrote: »

well i aint done a lot of camping , my opinion is: with the family - cool

with the gal - cool

with boys - gay

just me like

never said it was all guys

Hurdy Gurdy

Thanks gavcobh

gavcobh

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

I apologise on behalf of the campsite, it will not happen again.

now you are just making a mockery of the debate your so invested in.

ClimberC

headmaster wrote: »

I would hope that the owner, yes, the owner, would and should have the right to decide, who stays, or who doesn't stay, on his property. From my own experiences, a group of young people are usually well able to create problems. They have no one to blame but themselves, just look around at weekends and see the state of them, the same with uni students. An old saying, "Don't let trouble in, then you won't have to put it out", says it all.

Very mature post there :rolleyes:

Don't drag students into a debate about a campsite. I am a student and i rarely drink. I don't make trouble. Am I to blame for others cock ups? I have seen middle aged people do much worse than i have seen any student do, does that mean all middle aged people are to blame? That's discrimination. cop on and grow up

Back on topic, Fair play op!

Hurdy Gurdy

Fair play gavcobh, I was just testing the waters there, glad you don't believe I have anything to do with the campsite!

geordie 1

gavcobh wrote: »

never said it was all guys

well was it then ??

Ficheall

gavcobh wrote: »

well hurdy gurdy, i am entitled to be nonchalant if i wish and it was also a way for my friend to know which one of the group i am.

gavcobh wrote: »

we all were in bed then and i cant remember his alcohol intake i doubt he can remember mine.

Ah right... then I'm still confused as to how it was a way of letting your friend know which one of the group you were, to be honest...

amdublin wrote: »

The equality authority would view it as exactly the same.
There are 9 (I think!!) grounds that you cannot be discriminated on. All with the same standing eg. Sex, age, race... Etc
Ethnicity?? I think. This might be what travellers come under?
Family status or something eg. Single person v married person

Yes. They would. However, most people would be very understanding if the owner refused a group of travellers. That's why I'm suggesting that it is perhaps not the most favourable comparison the OP could have used.

gavcobh

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

Fair play gavcobh, I was just testing the waters there, glad you don't believe I have anything to do with the campsite!

i didnt say you had anything to do with the camp site in that post but you do seem invested in this debate, its not an insult or a bad thing, myself and my friend are invested in this too

amdublin

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

Im not making an assumption amdublin, Im expressing my educated opinion, based on years of experience being a young fella once myself.

Are you in your 20's by any chance?

You are just one "young fella".
You probably know about a 100 young fellas?

There are hundreds and millions of young fellas out there in the world and all are different individuals.
Just because someone is young does not mean they are trouble and you expressing your opinion is discriminating against them.
One bad traveller does not mean all travellers are bad.
One bad young fella does not mean all young fellas are bad.


For your info I am a female with my 20s well behind me. Not that this matters in this argument.

You cannot discriminate against someone because of their age. It is against the law. Do you understand this?

amdublin

amdublin wrote: »

You cannot just decide to discriminate against a group of lads because they are young.
If they pulled up and hopped out of their car with a slab of beer and making noise etc etc then he would be justified in his actions.

Www.equality.ie
Check it out dude!

Hurdy Gurdy and Headmaster:
Have you checked out this link?

Does it make things clearer for you?

amdublin

Ficheall wrote: »

Yes. They would. However, most people would be very understanding if the owner refused a group of travellers. That's why I'm suggesting that it is perhaps not the most favourable comparison the OP could have used.

EXCUSE ME???!!!!

"most people" wha?!!!!

Speak for yourself when you are generalising and discriminating against all travellers.


Jesus Christ almighty.
This thread has gone from bad to worse!!!!

geordie 1

i dont mind camping but the cooking is chit on a stove ,i had fried octopus last night. You have to be really quiet when you eat it otherwise, it emits a cloud of black smoke and falls on the floor, mad i tells ya

Hurdy Gurdy

That's well and good amdublin, but are you telling me that if a business has in it's policy that it reserves the right to refuse admission for any reason, that that is also against the law? If so, most places businesses in Ireland are breaking the law.

Maybe you should go around and show them the equality.ie website, make a few bob maybe.

celticutd87

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

Im not making an assumption amdublin, Im expressing my educated opinion, based on years of experience being a young fella once myself.

Are you in your 20's by any chance?

Why does her age have anything to do with it? Again with the age

gavcobh

"In 2000, the Equal Status Act came into operation to ban discrimination to anybody buying goods, using services, obtaining accommodation and attending educational establishments on the same nine grounds as the Employment Equality Act, including age. There has never been an upper age limit for the application of the Equal Status Act and people of all ages are protected by its provisions"

Ficheall

amdublin wrote: »

EXCUSE ME???!!!!

"most people" wha?!!!!

Speak for yourself when you are generalising and discriminating against all travellers.


Jesus Christ almighty.
This thread has gone from bad to worse!!!!

Ah.. the pc brigade. My bad.
Time to abandon this thread methinks.

Hurdy Gurdy

amdublin wrote: »

EXCUSE ME???!!!!

"most people" wha?!!!!

Speak for yourself when you are generalising and discriminating against all travellers.


Jesus Christ almighty.
This thread has gone from bad to worse!!!!

Maybe you should speak for yourself regarding the things you are saying? Most people in this country discriminate and stereotype, FACT. We are known for it, if you think otherwise, you are blinkered.

He is right in what he says, most people WOULD be understanding.

celticutd87

Hurdy Gurdy wrote: »

That's well and good amdublin, but are you telling me that if a business has in it's policy that it reserves the right to refuse admission for any reason, that that is also against the law? If so, most places businesses in Ireland are breaking the law.

Maybe you should go around and show them the equality.ie website, make a few bob maybe.

Ya a person has the right to refuse service or admission if a person is i dont know causing trouble etc.
Hurdy gurdy the whole comment about "make a few bob maybe" seems a bit smart. Why do that when you think we are making a mockery of it?

Hurdy Gurdy

celticutd87 wrote: »

Why does her age have anything to do with it? Again with the age

I've just noticed a trend like, everyone on your side happens to sound young whereas everyone else sound like they have a few years behind them.

In my profession I deal with young people on a daily basis, they all know their rights, remembered off by heart, and they have no trouble letting you know that either.

celticutd87

Ficheall wrote: »

Ah.. the pc brigade. My bad.
Time to abandon this thread methinks.

So people arent allowed bring law into any debate incase it disrupts your point?

geordie 1

hurdy is young & daft m8, just ignore him , i was young once & was chitting myself When I turned two, because I'd doubled my age in a year.
I thought, if this keeps up, by the time I'm six I'll be ninety

Hurdy Gurdy

celticutd87 wrote: »

Ya a person has the right to refuse service or admission if a person is i dont know causing trouble etc.
Hurdy gurdy the whole comment about "make a few bob maybe" seems a bit smart. Why do that when you think we are making a mockery of it?

Making a mockery now because this has gone to the dogs long ago lad.